This is like one giant SWTOR hating circle jerk...
This is rather unfair because you don't know how much GW2 cost, and seeing how designing different combat from the MMO standard is rather cheap, you shouldn't point fingure at TOR.
EA/Bioware has most of the actors on contracts so I assume thats were a lot of the money went, but now they don't have to worry about it again come an expantion/content patch.
I mean FFS people.
Doesnt matter how much GW2 costs.
It does according to the OP.
Also as someone else said does the cost of a game really effect your enjoyment?
WTF does it matter how much they spent? And even if it does you nor I have figure as to what the money went too, hell for all you know they could never have to pay another Voice actor/ess again due to havign them all on contracts, and actually designing the game only cost 100 million while contracts took up the rest.
Well I'm not the OP so I guess thats good.
And it matters because a lot of us were very excited on this game, and it just didnt live up to what its budget should have had it be. Its like someone is going to take you out to dinner, they tell you they will spend $100 on it. Then the buy you McDonalds and tell you it cost $100. Yeah, the foods not bad but its certainly not $100 good.
Yep - it's not exactly hatred for SWTOR as much as it is huge disappointment for what should (and could) have been a great MMO.
It wouldn't kill you to put a "IMO" after all of that because the following is what it is.
All I reading here is, "I FUCKING HATE THIS GAME. OH WHAT IT COST X?, GREAT NOW I HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT!.".
Seriouly what good does it do complaining about it?
game forums have always been more of a place to vent dislikes, issues, problems, whatever. When a game with as much hype surrounding this one with such a big IP it's really no suprise people want to vent their frustrations with the game. It's not often a IP such as star wars gets the MMO treatment and for it to be such a huge failure to many you can't blame them..
Yep what a failure...
Lets see what other games are failures according to MMORPG.com forum users logic that if people on the internet hate it then everyone must.
WoW:Cata-3 Million copies
COD:MW3-13.3 Million copies
SWTOR-2.15 Million Copies sold
What a bunch of failures...
It's not a failure from a financial standpoint but rather on lack of game and boring design - in my opinion
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Yep - it's not exactly hatred for SWTOR as much as it is huge disappointment for what should (and could) have been a great MMO.
It wouldn't kill you to put a "IMO" after all of that because the following is what it is.
All I reading here is, "I FUCKING HATE THIS GAME. OH WHAT IT COST X?, GREAT NOW I HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT!.".
Seriouly what good does it do complaining about it?
game forums have always been more of a place to vent dislikes, issues, problems, whatever. When a game with as much hype surrounding this one with such a big IP it's really no suprise people want to vent their frustrations with the game. It's not often a IP such as star wars gets the MMO treatment and for it to be such a huge failure to many you can't blame them..
Yep what a failure...
Lets see what other games are failures according to MMORPG.com forum users logic that if people on the internet hate it then everyone must.
WoW:Cata-3 Million copies
COD:MW3-13.3 Million copies
SWTOR-2.15 Million Copies sold
What a bunch of failures...
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
And it matters because a lot of us were very excited on this game, and it just didnt live up to what its budget should have had it be. Its like someone is going to take you out to dinner, they tell you they will spend $100 on it. Then the buy you McDonalds and tell you it cost $100. Yeah, the foods not bad but its certainly not $100 good.
NO NO NO
Don't give me the anology BS because it only retains to personal taste. Also as I said before, they have most of the people they have voice acting on contracts, seeing how you generally pay people a good deal of money with contracts at the start of said contracts a lot of it could over inflated and show higher cost then what it actually was.
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
Well...since there's no way to scientifically prove my point - it's only an opinion and doesn't need to be pointed out - in my opinion. My therapist told me it's good for me to complain on MMORPG about SWTOR - that's why I do it
Hating a video game this much can't be good for you.
I assume you're then going to tell me, "Well being a fanboy can't be good for you yada yada yada.".
Unsubbed to TOR a week ago and my sub is running out today, I have no plans on returning anytime soon. Now I spent my time trying to hammer a little logic onto these forums.
I'm surprised you unsubbed man.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
After giving SWTOR it's fair shot I'm left wondering, what in gods great gullet did they spend all of their money on? They had, what, a 200 million dollar budget?
I'm not a GW2 fanboy, but after comparing the two videos I'm beginning to wonder how much money BioWare spent [mod edit]
I have two questions for you.. #1 why are you using an unconfirmed budget as "source?" #2 how many bugs will gw2 have at launch? comparing an un-released game to a real one, you are basically comparing reality to hype and wondering why the hype is leading. It makes no sense.
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cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
As an admitted star was nerd and bioware nut I can tell you the game sucks.. also the game has only been out for a few months you can never judge the overall success of an MMO from 2 months.. warhammer didn't even have its greatest declines till after month 3.
To me they made the biggest mistake by creating the game with the mentality if it worked so well for wow it will work for us. To me this game is not star wars it does not feel like star wars. Playing a bounty hunter or playing a jedi feels like playing the same standard copy cat themepark game since forever. They could of done so much with this game and for it to end up like this is just sad to me...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
As an admitted star was nerd and bioware nut I can tell you the game sucks.. also the game has only been out for a few months you can never judge the overall success of an MMO from 2 months.. warhammer didn't even have its greatest declines till after month 3.
To me they made the biggest mistake by creating the game with the mentality if it worked so well for wow it will work for us. To me this game is not star wars it does not feel like star wars. Playing a bounty hunter or playing a jedi feels like playing the same standard copy cat themepark game since forever. They could of done so much with this game and for it to end up like this is just sad to me...
Sorry but I take it you were't around during the first month of WAR, everywhere you where people talked about leaving the game due to poor management from Mythic, the fact that entire classes where missing should give you an idea as to how broken that game was. People left by the THRONGS in WAR and Don't even get me started on the lack of new content that came after the first few months.
And this makes a failure because?, "Hey I think game X should be like game Y or it should have feature Z. Whats that it doesn't? then its a failure." .
Sorry but I take it you were't around during the first month of WAR, everywhere you where people talked about leaving the game due to poor management from Mythic, the fact that entire classes where missing should give you an idea as to how broken that game was. People left by the THRONGS in WAR and Don't even get me started on the lack of new content that came after the first few months.
And this makes a failure because?, "Hey I think game X should be like game Y or it should have feature Z. Whats that it doesn't? then its a failure." .
sounds like here.. every single person I know has left this game already.. The couple that stuck around transfered to more crowded servers because there's felt empty all the time. But both of them just unsubbed this week. Obviously we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game but for me to try and release a themepark clone out of an IP like star wars in 2011/2012 when themeparks have been failing year after year was just a horrible idea. I could go on all day on why I feel they failed in just making a basic themepark but enough of those posts have gone on already.
There was another post like this but what else can this game do? it was build upon the basic themepark gear grind model. What else is in the works? more leveling planets? more flashpoints, more operations, more warzones? its still just more of the same. If you enjoy more of the same and aren't tired of the same themepark gear grind treadmill that's been around for over a decade now than more power to you. I know for myself and many I have talked to the age of playing themepark clones year after year is over for us it just isn't fun anymore.. luckily some of the on the horizon games seem to at least be trying to break out of that themepark clone mold and hopefully they will succeed.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sorry but I take it you were't around during the first month of WAR, everywhere you where people talked about leaving the game due to poor management from Mythic, the fact that entire classes where missing should give you an idea as to how broken that game was. People left by the THRONGS in WAR and Don't even get me started on the lack of new content that came after the first few months.
And this makes a failure because?, "Hey I think game X should be like game Y or it should have feature Z. Whats that it doesn't? then its a failure." .
sounds like here.. every single person I know has left this game already.. The couple that stuck around transfered to more crowded servers because there's felt empty all the time. But both of them just unsubbed this week. Obviously we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game but for me to try and release a themepark clone out of an IP like star wars in 2011/2012 when themeparks have been failing year after year was just a horrible idea. I could go on all day on why I feel they failed in just making a basic themepark but enough of those posts have gone on already.
There was another post like this but what else can this game do? it was build upon the basic themepark gear grind model. What else is in the works? more leveling planets? more flashpoints, more operations, more warzones? its still just more of the same. If you enjoy more of the same and aren't tired of the same themepark gear grind treadmill that's been around for over a decade now than more power to you. I know for myself and many I have talked to the age of playing themepark clones year after year is over for us it just isn't fun anymore.. luckily some of the on the horizon games seem to at least be trying to break out of that themepark clone mold and hopefully they will succeed.
Do you know the 1.7 million people currently subbed to TOR? The rest is just subjective opinion. RIFT, LOTRO, WoW, TOR and Aion mkae up at least 70% of the MMO playerbase.
You're being a drama queen, there are plenty of other games that are not about gear grinding or have WoW like combat.
Edit: You're also assuming that said up coming games are auto matically good just because they break the mold.
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
"1 million is profitable, but nothing to write home about"
If SWTOR dips below 1 mill subs, EA will let it rot
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
This game should go B2P then release content like Lotro. from there when you have 2 or 3 expanisons go F2P and allow the consumers to play the first part.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
"1 million is profitable, but nothing to write home about"
If SWTOR dips below 1 mill subs, EA will let it rot
1 million is what they want, it doesn't mean that 999,999 subs isn't profitable.
Do you know the 1.7 million people currently subbed to TOR? The rest is just subjective opinion. RIFT, LOTRO, WoW, TOR and Aion mkae up at least 70% of the MMO playerbase.
You're being a drama queen, there are plenty of other games that are not about gear grinding or have WoW like combat.
Edit: You're also assuming that said up coming games are auto matically good just because they break the mold.
no one knows how many current sub's this game has outside EA/BIOWARE it sold little over 2 mil copies but who knows how many are still playing.. also yes just because others are trying to break the mold doesn't mean they will succeed but at least they are trying and for that I will give the my support.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Do you know the 1.7 million people currently subbed to TOR? The rest is just subjective opinion. RIFT, LOTRO, WoW, TOR and Aion mkae up at least 70% of the MMO playerbase.
You're being a drama queen, there are plenty of other games that are not about gear grinding or have WoW like combat.
Edit: You're also assuming that said up coming games are auto matically good just because they break the mold.
no one knows how many current sub's this game has outside EA/BIOWARE it sold little over 2 mil copies but who knows how many are still playing.. also yes just because others are trying to break the mold doesn't mean they will succeed but at least they are trying and for that I will give the my support.
And I simply play games that I enjoy.
Are you trying to make this about philosipy (No spell check hurts)? Bioware has the world record for the largest voice over project ever, if thats not breaking the mold IDK wtf is. Also once again you're making assumtion (Kinda ironic if you ask me) and you assume that these so called mold breakers are breakign the mold for the better.
I think they didn't spend as much money as you think they did (is there even an official/confirmed amount?) And I think most of it went to the voice actors and marketing.
I also think this game will not fail in EA's (not Bioware) eyes.
They sold 2 million copies so let's say that's atleast $20 (minus retail costs) per copy, which makes already $40 million. Not even counting the sales through Origon for which they take 100% of the sale price.
In the upcoming few months they will probably sucker in another half million idiots which brings the total to $50 million already. That's from box (and digital box) copies alone! Add the monthly fee and they are probably around $100 million already just a few months after release.
There's bound to be a half million players for a few months after that and probably still a few hundred thousand a year after.
I think EA will makes a few million profit from this game. And they do not care about dragging the Bioware name through the mud. They will just buy up another studio or name in a (few) year time.
And I also think they used poor Bioware which really thought they could make a good mmorpg.
as do I and this game was not even close to one i enjoyed past the first few weeks and ill leave it at that.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
All of those 3 things can get insanely expensive. Especially marketting & the amount of voice acting they had in this game means not only paying for all that equipment / studio time, but more so all the actors that they had recording for longer than most film projects. Furthermore, they didn't get just anyone to do the stories, they went for some of the more iconic voice actors in the industry. That isn't cheap.
Tack that on to the massive cost it takes to make a game of that size, and you have a fairly intimidating budget. I think EA also inflated their numbers a bit, because they were using it as a marketting tool.
I actually remember people making budgets higher until louse claimed 300 million-ish
It ranged from 150 million to 500 million
The guy in charge of TOR said that they aimed for $150M but they ran into some unexpected costs. The actual cost is officially over $200M but a "lot" less than $300M. Estimates of $500M to $750M also include a big chunck of what EA paid for BW. While technically that cost can't be seen as part of the cost of developing TOR, part of it is what EA paid for TOR.
Good post.
There is what the game cost to make - guess a head count profile and assume $100k per year per person - to cover salary, taxes, pension, medical and applicable sundries (software licences, servers, marketing budget for sales staff etc.). Very crude but good enough imo. Easy to get a bottomline of $150M noting that theyhad 400+ in 2011.
Then there is what it cost EA - which factors in EA buying Bioware - at least another $50M if you simply split the 12 games so far across the $600M cost.
And then their is the cost to EA shareholders - who picked up the other c. $280M share options. Analysts may factor this extra $20M+ in.
JR did say in the investor conference that anything under 1M subs would mean that it wouldn't really pass their investment criteria with 500k being breakeven (sure 500k was to be substantially profitable last year ...... costs must be higher then planned maybe)
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
A good question but when comparing SWTOR to RIFT you need to factor in:
1) the cost of the SWTOR IP - RIFT has no IP cost as far as I know. If it is around the 35% that has been mentioned by analysts then 750k SWTOR subs is the same as 500k subs in RIFT financially. EA will pay LucasArts about a third. Now I am sure its a complicated formula but no one says it is a cheap IP.
2) SWTOR almost certainly cost more than RIFT - Trion only had $100M in start-up money after all. So SWTOR has to do that much better than RIFT.
And in the conference call EA basically gave the answer. 500k - break even, theycan keep it running etc. Less than 1M and probably not a good investment. More and its fine. JR didn't say how long they would need the 1M+ for though.
Now if they have 1.7M for a year it is probably on its way to paying for itself. Does anyone doubt that month 3 subs are well down however?
I actually remember people making budgets higher until louse claimed 300 million-ish
It ranged from 150 million to 500 million
The guy in charge of TOR said that they aimed for $150M but they ran into some unexpected costs. The actual cost is officially over $200M but a "lot" less than $300M. Estimates of $500M to $750M also include a big chunck of what EA paid for BW. While technically that cost can't be seen as part of the cost of developing TOR, part of it is what EA paid for TOR.
Do you by any chance have a quote of the guy in charge saying that they aimed for 15oM but that they ran into some unexpected costs? I can't recall any statement like that at all, but if it's recent then maybe I've missed it. Same for the 200M, afaik that hasn't been any official statement at all but just an unfounded/unsourced quote from a newspaper that also talked about 1600 hours of story content as a given fact :-/
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
A good question but when comparing SWTOR to RIFT you need to factor in:
1) the cost of the SWTOR IP - RIFT has no IP cost as far as I know. If it is around the 35% that has been mentioned by analysts then 750k SWTOR subs is the same as 500k subs in RIFT financially. EA will pay LucasArts about a third. Now I am sure its a complicated formula but no one says it is a cheap IP.
2) SWTOR almost certainly cost more than RIFT - Trion only had $100M in start-up money after all. So SWTOR has to do that much better than RIFT.
And in the conference call EA basically gave the answer. 500k - break even, theycan keep it running etc. Less than 1M and probably not a good investment. More and its fine. JR didn't say how long they would need the 1M+ for though.
Now if they have 1.7M for a year it is probably on its way to paying for itself. Does anyone doubt that month 3 subs are well down however?
Compared to every MMO that has releaed since WoW TOR is doing far better then all of them. Or do you doubt that?
Comments
we wouldnt tease if they hadnt made it a selling point.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Well I'm not the OP so I guess thats good.
And it matters because a lot of us were very excited on this game, and it just didnt live up to what its budget should have had it be. Its like someone is going to take you out to dinner, they tell you they will spend $100 on it. Then the buy you McDonalds and tell you it cost $100. Yeah, the foods not bad but its certainly not $100 good.
It's not a failure from a financial standpoint but rather on lack of game and boring design - in my opinion
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
cause it sold well at launch its a great game? wow thats a revelation right there!!! could it possibly be the marketing + 2 HUGE names that sold this game? Warhammer sold what about a million right? and that game is considered by many to be a massive failure.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
NO NO NO
Don't give me the anology BS because it only retains to personal taste. Also as I said before, they have most of the people they have voice acting on contracts, seeing how you generally pay people a good deal of money with contracts at the start of said contracts a lot of it could over inflated and show higher cost then what it actually was.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
What is a success? and what is a failure?
We seem to think that RIFT (33% retention rate assuming they have as many as LOTRO) and GW1 (6 million copies sold) are successes.
So here we go again, assuming SWTOR retains as many people as RIFT did percent wise it means they'll have around 750ishK subs. 500K breaks even and anything north of that is profit. This assumes it sell no copies and never has a trial period.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Hating a video game this much can't be good for you.
I assume you're then going to tell me, "Well being a fanboy can't be good for you yada yada yada.".
Unsubbed to TOR a week ago and my sub is running out today, I have no plans on returning anytime soon. Now I spent my time trying to hammer a little logic onto these forums.
I'm surprised you unsubbed man.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I have two questions for you.. #1 why are you using an unconfirmed budget as "source?" #2 how many bugs will gw2 have at launch? comparing an un-released game to a real one, you are basically comparing reality to hype and wondering why the hype is leading. It makes no sense.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
As an admitted star was nerd and bioware nut I can tell you the game sucks.. also the game has only been out for a few months you can never judge the overall success of an MMO from 2 months.. warhammer didn't even have its greatest declines till after month 3.
To me they made the biggest mistake by creating the game with the mentality if it worked so well for wow it will work for us. To me this game is not star wars it does not feel like star wars. Playing a bounty hunter or playing a jedi feels like playing the same standard copy cat themepark game since forever. They could of done so much with this game and for it to end up like this is just sad to me...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sorry but I take it you were't around during the first month of WAR, everywhere you where people talked about leaving the game due to poor management from Mythic, the fact that entire classes where missing should give you an idea as to how broken that game was. People left by the THRONGS in WAR and Don't even get me started on the lack of new content that came after the first few months.
And this makes a failure because?, "Hey I think game X should be like game Y or it should have feature Z. Whats that it doesn't? then its a failure." .
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
sounds like here.. every single person I know has left this game already.. The couple that stuck around transfered to more crowded servers because there's felt empty all the time. But both of them just unsubbed this week. Obviously we all have our own opinions about what makes a good game but for me to try and release a themepark clone out of an IP like star wars in 2011/2012 when themeparks have been failing year after year was just a horrible idea. I could go on all day on why I feel they failed in just making a basic themepark but enough of those posts have gone on already.
There was another post like this but what else can this game do? it was build upon the basic themepark gear grind model. What else is in the works? more leveling planets? more flashpoints, more operations, more warzones? its still just more of the same. If you enjoy more of the same and aren't tired of the same themepark gear grind treadmill that's been around for over a decade now than more power to you. I know for myself and many I have talked to the age of playing themepark clones year after year is over for us it just isn't fun anymore.. luckily some of the on the horizon games seem to at least be trying to break out of that themepark clone mold and hopefully they will succeed.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Do you know the 1.7 million people currently subbed to TOR? The rest is just subjective opinion. RIFT, LOTRO, WoW, TOR and Aion mkae up at least 70% of the MMO playerbase.
You're being a drama queen, there are plenty of other games that are not about gear grinding or have WoW like combat.
Edit: You're also assuming that said up coming games are auto matically good just because they break the mold.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
"1 million is profitable, but nothing to write home about"
If SWTOR dips below 1 mill subs, EA will let it rot
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
This game should go B2P then release content like Lotro. from there when you have 2 or 3 expanisons go F2P and allow the consumers to play the first part.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
1 million is what they want, it doesn't mean that 999,999 subs isn't profitable.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
no one knows how many current sub's this game has outside EA/BIOWARE it sold little over 2 mil copies but who knows how many are still playing.. also yes just because others are trying to break the mold doesn't mean they will succeed but at least they are trying and for that I will give the my support.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
And I simply play games that I enjoy.
Are you trying to make this about philosipy (No spell check hurts)? Bioware has the world record for the largest voice over project ever, if thats not breaking the mold IDK wtf is. Also once again you're making assumtion (Kinda ironic if you ask me) and you assume that these so called mold breakers are breakign the mold for the better.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I think they didn't spend as much money as you think they did (is there even an official/confirmed amount?) And I think most of it went to the voice actors and marketing.
I also think this game will not fail in EA's (not Bioware) eyes.
They sold 2 million copies so let's say that's atleast $20 (minus retail costs) per copy, which makes already $40 million. Not even counting the sales through Origon for which they take 100% of the sale price.
In the upcoming few months they will probably sucker in another half million idiots which brings the total to $50 million already. That's from box (and digital box) copies alone! Add the monthly fee and they are probably around $100 million already just a few months after release.
There's bound to be a half million players for a few months after that and probably still a few hundred thousand a year after.
I think EA will makes a few million profit from this game. And they do not care about dragging the Bioware name through the mud. They will just buy up another studio or name in a (few) year time.
And I also think they used poor Bioware which really thought they could make a good mmorpg.
as do I and this game was not even close to one i enjoyed past the first few weeks and ill leave it at that.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Pretty simple.
Voice Acting, Star Wars IP, Marketting Hype.
All of those 3 things can get insanely expensive. Especially marketting & the amount of voice acting they had in this game means not only paying for all that equipment / studio time, but more so all the actors that they had recording for longer than most film projects. Furthermore, they didn't get just anyone to do the stories, they went for some of the more iconic voice actors in the industry. That isn't cheap.
Tack that on to the massive cost it takes to make a game of that size, and you have a fairly intimidating budget. I think EA also inflated their numbers a bit, because they were using it as a marketting tool.
Good post.
There is what the game cost to make - guess a head count profile and assume $100k per year per person - to cover salary, taxes, pension, medical and applicable sundries (software licences, servers, marketing budget for sales staff etc.). Very crude but good enough imo. Easy to get a bottomline of $150M noting that theyhad 400+ in 2011.
Then there is what it cost EA - which factors in EA buying Bioware - at least another $50M if you simply split the 12 games so far across the $600M cost.
And then their is the cost to EA shareholders - who picked up the other c. $280M share options. Analysts may factor this extra $20M+ in.
JR did say in the investor conference that anything under 1M subs would mean that it wouldn't really pass their investment criteria with 500k being breakeven (sure 500k was to be substantially profitable last year ...... costs must be higher then planned maybe)
A good question but when comparing SWTOR to RIFT you need to factor in:
1) the cost of the SWTOR IP - RIFT has no IP cost as far as I know. If it is around the 35% that has been mentioned by analysts then 750k SWTOR subs is the same as 500k subs in RIFT financially. EA will pay LucasArts about a third. Now I am sure its a complicated formula but no one says it is a cheap IP.
2) SWTOR almost certainly cost more than RIFT - Trion only had $100M in start-up money after all. So SWTOR has to do that much better than RIFT.
And in the conference call EA basically gave the answer. 500k - break even, theycan keep it running etc. Less than 1M and probably not a good investment. More and its fine. JR didn't say how long they would need the 1M+ for though.
Now if they have 1.7M for a year it is probably on its way to paying for itself. Does anyone doubt that month 3 subs are well down however?
Do you by any chance have a quote of the guy in charge saying that they aimed for 15oM but that they ran into some unexpected costs? I can't recall any statement like that at all, but if it's recent then maybe I've missed it. Same for the 200M, afaik that hasn't been any official statement at all but just an unfounded/unsourced quote from a newspaper that also talked about 1600 hours of story content as a given fact :-/Compared to every MMO that has releaed since WoW TOR is doing far better then all of them. Or do you doubt that?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Too early to tell. Rift blows TOR out of the water content wise and game mechanics wise.