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Sigh. So, GW2 is shaping up to be WoW 2 in many ways.
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You know what's a sandbox game?
Having a big bunch of legos on a table. :x
I think almost all these MMORPGs calling themselves sandbox games are significantly overselling themselves.
Imo you're overreacting. I haven't seen any sign that they are trying to copy WoW or that they're deviating from their original vision in any way. The closest to that might be the addition of scouts pointing you out to DEs but even that would be a stretch.
Take it easy and don't panic. It's normal you're worried about a game you've been waiting for so long.
And besides, I'm all for removing death "penalties" from games altogether. There is no point in punishing players, denial of rewards is more than enough "punishment" for something you're actually paying. I don't see how this has anything to do with WoW or, in fact, how it in any way deviates from their original design and vision. It's still pretty light and I don't see it nearly as annoying as corpse runs or some other crap like that.
As or combat, it really looks innovative and fresh and completely unlike WoW. They never promised that mob AI will be genius, just that it won't use the standard aggro mechnics, which it stll doesnt. Again, they didn't promise every mob to have FPS-like bot intelligence, just that their AI will be varied enough to be interesting and force you to think on your feet... which is exactly what I see in demo vids and I've never encountered in WoW.
So, take a deep breath and relax.
BANANAS!
My theme song.
EverQuest 1 was a themepark, granted not nearly as railway as some, but you never hear anyone bitching about it, even now. Archeage is coming out soon, why can't you sandboxers fixate on it, please!?
I dont think that the OP is a troll, but more like a disappointed GW2 fan atm. Ive seen him post a lot about GW2. Anyway..
1. Death penalty. I think the current mechanics are ok. You dont pay for repairs if you dont die (downed state is not dieing). So skilled players are rewarded for being skilled.
2. Ive noticed it too in gameplay videos that sometimes mobs dont die fast. But most of the times that was when one of those beta player was trying a new weapon and was only spamming the first skill of that new weapon all the time to train for the next skill. From the press beta event I mainly saw starting areas. Im not sure if you can compare starting area mobs to higher lvl area mobs. Maybe the mob diversity is a little like in GW1 in higher lvl areas. If its not, Im not sure if I like it either. I agree with the OP that GW1 combat looks more tactical.
The OP raises two interesting points. And then goes way hyperbole about how GW2 is now a lot like WoW because of these 2 things.
QFT
games that have player made content and the tools to provide that player made content is what I consider a sandbox
hence, minecraft and neverwinter nights are in that category
there is no mmo in that category (unless you consider minecraft and NWN as mmos)
Games in the same genre imitate each other to certain extent. Innovation is slow process. It is true for all genres. You see small iterations over time, not massive overhaul.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Rails and no-rails? I think we already have those terms :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
ITT: Angry EVE fans think being a themepark is inherently bad.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
There ARE loading screens between zones, i don't know why lately people keep claiming there aren't.
Now i don't know if each zone border has a loading screen, and i don't know how many loading screens there are in the world, but stop telling people there aren't any.
By your rigid definition Eve Online doesn't sound like a sandbox. Sheesh. Want to buld a tengu? You have to spend at least this much time training the skills to build it, use exactly these materials, not what you want, etc. Even so called sandboxes have walls you're confined within.
Oderint, dum metuant.
ah good point
Well maybe, I'm just sick of the word being thrown around for anything and everything today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have to disagree with you.
You actually understood the death penalty wrong, I thought the same as you in the beggining. The Downed Bar goes down by 25% when you get downed, yes, BUT it goes back up every minute. The only way you can die automatically is if you get downed 4 times in ONE minute. they weren't very clear about that, I agree. I hope that gives you a little faith back into the game!
As for the combat, I think it's miles away from WoW. It's just that GW2's combat seems to be designed for solo players a lot. However, they could change that with the combo system; your skills can interact with other classes' skills, which is a great thing. I think that the combat will require a lot of thinking and strategy.
don't forget that the death penalty isn't that much of an important feature. Try to think about all else that is great about the game.
And gw2 will never end up failing like warhammer or decieving like TOR. So far the press is loving it, and it's coming to us soon!
I guess we'll have to wait until we play before placing a final judgement!
Some people even call EQ a sandbox, and by the new standards TOR's set, some could even call WoW a sandbox. People have become totally confused as to what the word even means, probably because it's been so long since we've seen one (that wasn't a broken amateurish indie game)
Also, the word has such a stigma associated with it. Like linear. Some linear games are great, some themeparks are great. There's nothing wrong with GW2 being a themepark, just with the genre for offering so little variation.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
i lol'd at this OP. are you seriously gonna write half a page criticizing the death penalty system? the rest of your post is incomprehensible BS. you are either really hating the game and finding a way to reach, or youre just trolling.
Actually, I can list a couple of MMO's that I would consider sandbox or sandbox'ish. UO is a sandbox game. EVE is sandbox'ish. Vanguard is sandbox'ish. If SWG pre-NGE were still around it would have been on the list of sandbox games.
You know not every game is designed to appeal to every individual. If you do not like the design decisions of GW2 dont buy it and dont play it. Its really that simple. No one really cares why you feel "betrayed" or anything else.
Well, you're not going to see me using it to describe GW2, but you won't see me using it to describe most games, for that matter.
I think one problem is that there isn't like a real, proper, official definition and some Great Gaming God of Definitions who just says 'BAM, everything that is a sandbox is this, and everything that is not a sandbox title does not have that'.
That would be really convenient, but mostly it's just people's feelings.
Feeeeeeeeeelings.
Such a shoddy way of defining things.
It looks like to me that the AI still behaves similarly to how it did in Guild Wars. Enemies run away, kite if they are ranged, and some even tend to use abilities at the proper time. Some enemies aim for weaker targets, while others focus on players in front of them. You don't see a lot of that in the early areas, but if you watch a few videos that feature content beyond the verying beginning of the starter zone you'll start to see more AI types. There seems to be a good variety. Some are mindless and just charge and attack and do nothing else, but there are quite a few that seem to be doing a bit more than that.
Also the CO approach? I remember the combat in CO being ridiculous easy and mindless. Able to solo world bosses that were obviously meant for small raids and generally little chance of death throughout the entire the game. I was able to solo the 5 man dungeons with ease in CO too, and I don't remember anything inside being responsible for a specific role (i'd imagine if there actually was healers in these dungeons it would have been impossible to solo).
Contrary to what you are saying, if you watch the Ascalon Dungeon video.you'll see there are packs of trash setup in these roles too. Each set of MOBs each has their own mechanic (which is conveniently shown to the player if you target them) and some focus almost solely on healing.
All the sandbox vs themepark ppl gtfo, or get back on topic and address the OP's two raised points.
1. Current death penalty mechanics = skilled players dont (often) pay for repairs
2. Combat. Im not sure about this. Ive mainly seen low lvl areas and players have barely skills at that point, so I dont expect much from mobs either. But yeah, I agree that GW1 combat looks more tactical. But on the other hand GW2 is more twitchy with the dodging.
Eh... im just noot seeing it.
Hell, even Tera looks to have more sandbox elements.
GW2 is an innovative themepark, but sandbox elements? where?
PVE & PVP are completely separated, you can't get more carebear than that.
Can you build anything? no...
Does it have politics? a sense of community? no...
I mean it's server vs server vs server, you will never have any kind of politics, rivalries and all that stuff when you fight against other servers, and let's not forget about the server rotation... if a LFG tool kills the sense of community, what GW2 is doing is even worse.
Oh and don't tell me how DEs are cooperative, we all know what is going to happen, exactly what RIFT had, solo players playing in a group, the DE ends, everyone leaves, 0 words, very very social amright!!!!!!All in all, im very hyped about GW2 because i can still enjoy themeparks, unless they are total wow clones.
However, this beta videos where a bit.... you know... dissapointing, im not seeing this "action combat" that Arenanet talked so much about, what Tera has is miled ahead in terms of combat mechanics.
Too bad it still has quest based leveling, but hey... no game is perfect.
Oh, and the graphics looked VERY cartonish and low rez, but it's beta and the guy in the video could have a low end pc."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Agree 100% well said, +1 toward all of the above.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why? It has been discussed to death and was more than likely simply baiting anyways.
So back to more important things. Does this mean TSW is a themebox too or will that fit more into the sandpark variety? Just want to make sure I'm hip with all the new terminology. I would hate to be out of the loop.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.