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One thing I (think) I don't like about this game...
KingGator
Member UncommonPosts: 428
in Guild Wars 2
Without a holy trinity, everyone is basically self healing dps. What sort of group dynamics does that make for? While I am interested in this game, if that's what it is(and I am hoping that it isn't) it will be the most boring mmo ever.
Comments
You still have Control, Support, and Damage. It will not be a zerg fest. Its just that everyone can be anything. So you wont need to wait for a healer / tank because anyone can be a healer or dps or a tank.
oh so its more boring than spending hours LFG ? what can actual be more boring than the holy trinity? think about it..
The holy trinity is a valid system; however, it has been done so many times in MMORPGs that it is refreshing trying alternative systems.
I think people assume that because of the hybrid classes, that anyone can tank, which is not true. Thieves, for example, have shown in Youtube videos that they aren't nearly as likely to be able to stand up front as well as say, a Guardian or Elementalist in Earth attunement. And that same Ele in fire attunement becomes squishy.
What is the group dynamic?
Be skilled or die. There's still the potential for a group to fail, but it won't be because of one person not having the right gear or spec. It will actually be a group dynamic for once instead of tank/heal dynamic - not dynamic - (ie: a tank and healer can solo anything given enough time and HP, DPS never truly mattered in past MMOs, hence gimmicks like Enrage timers). You have to adapt quickly and dodge, dodge, dodge. If no one dodges, it's each individual person's fault, not one person's fault as it usually is.
Most people don't seem to get it just yet.
Healers aren't gone. It's just that you can finally do stuff without them. You can still be a healer primarily and then people wont have to worry about healing themselves. So basically instead of just being a healer class, you can be anything and then be a healer/provide support. So it likely wont just be people self healing all the time, there will be regular healers all over the place. In any MMO I play, i always use characters tht have self heals and they aren't always enough, so healers are still very useful and needed in some cases.
Self heals aren't new and have never made healers useless
There are no primary healer classes.
Iwill never, ever, ever, play a game witha trinity system for as long as I live. Well, maybe for nostalgia reasons, ten years from now, I may try it to remind me why I hated it so much. Other than that, it was the main reason I even looked at GW2.
Which classes do you know for sure can work efficiently as "regular healer" in GW2?
Actually, Anet explicitly stated that support heals will never be good enough to take the burden of self-preservation from individual player - they just make it a bit easier. Self heals have never made healers useless, but no allied targetting and low healing numbers surely made dedicated healing impossible.
So just dodge the freaking attacks, come on man think, the game is not based on tank and spank. There will also be beneficial spells to allies and skill combinations, seriously has everyone here only ever played WoW? Can you not comprehend that the game does not have a holy trinity because it allows you to MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. The game is based on a NEW and INNOVATIVE system that give someone the ability to dodge the attacks by not standing still (i'm not talking about the skill per se but simply the trait of avoiding attacks in real time). This has NEVER been done before, except in almost every single player game ever! How is it that hard to understand?
Chill out man, this is literally on the beginnin mainly for those just finding out what GW 2 is all about or looking up on it.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Doesn't the game have a form of auto target (a soft form?)? This is the part that has me most confused at this point about GW2, I just question how viable dodging will actually be. Especially in a PVP scenario. I have really fast hand eye cordination, so it's really not a concern whether I can use it to an advantage, it's just that I'm not sure as a game mechanic how it will fit into a tab system.
I thought I read that dodge has a cool-down, that may have been something else I'm thinking of though (so don't quote me on that). IF it does have a cool-down it's not going to be all that useful, unless it's timed against a damaging blow (power strike).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think that's an oversimplification of the group dynamics. Every class isn't a self-healing dps nor is there a dedicated trinity in support, control and dps.
Look at about 1:40 and at 22:35 in this video(I's recommend looking at the whole series):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWe2PPOjwo
This guardian at around the 1:45 mark didn't rez his ally, instead he kept whacking at the boss while soaking up and healing damage. No support what so ever to his allies. His control was just a by-product of spamming skills. His solo play was terrible and as a result he was a burden rather than an asset to his group. That made it boring.
Now take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR0-S9SQCW4
At about 3:30, do you see how the warrior is using their dodge and skills effectively and not soaking up damage while whacking away at the troll? That's good solo play. When the guardian came in at the 3:50 mark, he descided to soak up and heal the trolls damage while dpsing which led to him being downed at the very end of the fight where as the warrior kept dodging and using their skills well. Idly if the troll was a fast melee character the warrior could have trade-off and took some hits while the guardian's cooldowns get replenished. Nonetheless, it's much more interesting grouping.
Then again, the holy trinity may just match your tastes in group play which is fine and a lot of solid games already have it.
I'm not sure about pvp. In pve you can dodge attacks and even projectiles without the need to use the dodge ability.
well how about not slacking of guardian player so much if you look it carefully and what he typoes on chat hes group already agroed the boss before he was even there, thats pro gaming from shite dps in any game and yet ok they wiped well what a suprise when tank wasnt around . then second try running back and again the dps is whacking the boss before the tank gets there. so my point is, its braindamaging trying to actually group play these games nor raid when people with your group or raid are twats like that.
Yeah I can see that working in PVE, similar to a TES game in a sense, as you can step out of the way of a fireball as an example (I guess that's what you mean here). I'm more or less wondering how ranged skills work in a PVP situation, are spells aimed or do they auto follow their target?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My issue is if you wanted to do something like heal... to bad. I'm totally fine with the option of tanking not being absolutely needed, so long as its still possibly if you want (having someone holding as a distraction or purposely intercepting attacks). Healing though, I find it to be fun to do at times. A healing/supporting role to me really makes a game interesting and brings in new challenge. Sure, it doesn't need to be as focus heavy on healing as other games, but it should exist in some form.
Last i read you are invulnerable during the dodge animaiton. and there's a energy bar that dodge uses not sure if theres a cool down on the skill itself or just using the energy system
it has to be , freedom to do whatevet you want is not entertaining in way if you group some dungeon for example, rules needs to be there. otherwise its just mindless chaos.
Okay now it's making a little more sense to me, so it seemingly works on a basis of stamina, I can see how that could be viable, as well as strategic, as those who want to use rolling as an alternative to bunny hopping, will be sorely disappointed, that was one of my concerns.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I love it actually. Even as a healer I hate the reliance some feel have to adhere to towards having one of mine in a group almost mandatory or having to wait around trying to find a tank. With this you should in theory easily find groups and besides obvious screwups by someone you don't have the blame game and take away at least one aspect elitists love to use.
God I hate elitists. Worst thing about mmos.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Considering combat has an element of twitch skill to it, I wouldn't sing praises of leaving the elitists behind just yet :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh don't get me wrong. They're still going to be there. From stats to skills to twitch play yeah they'll have plenty to annoy the rest with.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
GW2 doesn't require a tank. What is a tank, really? Tanking is a simplistic form of Control. In this case, it's control by forcing the mob to direct it's attacks on the tank, who is better equiped to absorb that damage. It's not the only valid form of control. Keeping the mob from damaging party members by limiting their mobility, weakening their attacks or kiting them about the map can be just as effective a way to neutralize a threat while the party focuses on defeating it as tanking it.
Same thing with healing and support. Buffing, debuffing, deflecting, reflecting, shielding... actively minimizing the impact of an opponents hits, rather than reactively healing damage already done.
Anyone has the potential to build any class around Damage/Control/Support, even if they can't be particularly effective tanks or healers.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
You will always be your own best healer. The heals provided by other players will never be enough to keep a group alive if that group isn't bothering to heal themselves. What the additional healing brings is just a small supplement that helps, but won't save you on it's own.
I think every class will have one of those group heals available to them, so you could say that the only person who loads one is your dedicated healer. Of course, while they aren't casting it, they have nine other skills full of DPS, CC, defense and damage mitigation they can be using. And if they aren't using them, they are pretty much a waste of space.
This is why people say there are no dedicated healers.