I really enjoy SWTOR and if you say it on these forums you tend to get attacked. What i find amusing is that to my knowledge(from what i have looked at) every game that has been released gets a heap load of negative comments, way more than positive ones.
When you see a heap of negative posts i would suggest looking at some of the posters history and quite often they are multiple game critics. Basically no game is good enough for them "except maybe the first one they played", yet most of them could not set up an online game of checkers.
I totally agree with this.
One thing I've been noticing with SWTOR is there are a lot of 'WoW kiddies'(as in people who's first game was WoW) apart of that group. It's where 'wow clone' and 'wow killer' come from. Long time MMOers know better than to use those terms.
Idr if it was in this thread or another but someone mentioned how people typically don't want to move away from their old game because it devalues all those years invested. Having to start over from scratch in the new game is only worth it if the game becomes more meaningful than their old one, if they join the new game then the old game must burn to justify their move. Solution: wage a hate campaign against every (new) game you're not playing and think that you're helping your game retain it's relevance... or so they think. I find this to be especially true with the group mentioned earlier.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
I really enjoy SWTOR and if you say it on these forums you tend to get attacked. What i find amusing is that to my knowledge(from what i have looked at) every game that has been released gets a heap load of negative comments, way more than positive ones.
When you see a heap of negative posts i would suggest looking at some of the posters history and quite often they are multiple game critics. Basically no game is good enough for them "except maybe the first one they played", yet most of them could not set up an online game of checkers.
I totally agree with this.
One thing I've been noticing with SWTOR is there are a lot of 'WoW kiddies'(as in people who's first game was WoW) apart of that group. It's where 'wow clone' and 'wow killer' come from. Long time MMOers know better than to use those terms.
Idr if it was in this thread or another but someone mentioned how people typically don't want to move away from their old game because it devalues all those years invested. Having to start over from scratch in the new game is only worth it if the game becomes more meaningful than their old one, if they join the new game then the old game must burn to justify their move. Solution: wage a hate campaign against every (new) game you're not playing and think that you're helping your game retain it's relevance... or so they think. I find this to be especially true with the group mentioned earlier.
The entertainment business hasn't really brought anything new to the table since the 90's, MMO's more than any other sector of the industry encourages us all to be vocal on t'interwebs due to the nature of the product. Combine that with this site attracting people who have already played a lot of games and are looking for the next game to make their jaw drop like their first or second did it can make for some ugly perceptions of titles.
TOR has many faults but apart from the one claim that said "an endgame you've never seen before, but we can't talk about it" there really isn't anything that stands out that means it should be ridiculed as much as it is being.
Entertainment is like art, it's all the same until some genious comes along. People need to stop expecting those geniouses to be involved in every single MMO release as they only come along once or twice every decade or two.
I really enjoy SWTOR and if you say it on these forums you tend to get attacked. What i find amusing is that to my knowledge(from what i have looked at) every game that has been released gets a heap load of negative comments, way more than positive ones.
When you see a heap of negative posts i would suggest looking at some of the posters history and quite often they are multiple game critics. Basically no game is good enough for them "except maybe the first one they played", yet most of them could not set up an online game of checkers.
There has been no such thing as the "perfect MMORPG and there never will be in a general sense. There are perfect MMORPG's for certain people and SWTOR is for me "WARTs and all"
Speeking for myself the reason I'm negative on most games out now is because by far and large they are trying to be WoW in every way. I don't like that kiddie cartoony 'game' made for intellectually challanged children. Until companies at least try to do something different, I'll keep spewing my displeasure.
I said MY displeasure, not trying to insist it is everyones displeasure but I sure wish it was so people will stop buying the damn things and companies will stop trying to see $ signs if they try any more copy/paste kiddie games.
I really enjoy SWTOR and if you say it on these forums you tend to get attacked. What i find amusing is that to my knowledge(from what i have looked at) every game that has been released gets a heap load of negative comments, way more than positive ones.
When you see a heap of negative posts i would suggest looking at some of the posters history and quite often they are multiple game critics. Basically no game is good enough for them "except maybe the first one they played", yet most of them could not set up an online game of checkers.
I totally agree with this.
One thing I've been noticing with SWTOR is there are a lot of 'WoW kiddies'(as in people who's first game was WoW) apart of that group. It's where 'wow clone' and 'wow killer' come from. Long time MMOers know better than to use those terms.
Idr if it was in this thread or another but someone mentioned how people typically don't want to move away from their old game because it devalues all those years invested. Having to start over from scratch in the new game is only worth it if the game becomes more meaningful than their old one, if they join the new game then the old game must burn to justify their move. Solution: wage a hate campaign against every (new) game you're not playing and think that you're helping your game retain it's relevance... or so they think. I find this to be especially true with the group mentioned earlier.
Sweet Jesus AMEN! I was waiting for a post like this for ages! It at least give an explanation to all the hate! Both of you imo nailed the problem with people in here!
I really enjoy SWTOR and if you say it on these forums you tend to get attacked. What i find amusing is that to my knowledge(from what i have looked at) every game that has been released gets a heap load of negative comments, way more than positive ones.
When you see a heap of negative posts i would suggest looking at some of the posters history and quite often they are multiple game critics. Basically no game is good enough for them "except maybe the first one they played", yet most of them could not set up an online game of checkers.
I totally agree with this.
One thing I've been noticing with SWTOR is there are a lot of 'WoW kiddies'(as in people who's first game was WoW) apart of that group. It's where 'wow clone' and 'wow killer' come from. Long time MMOers know better than to use those terms.
Idr if it was in this thread or another but someone mentioned how people typically don't want to move away from their old game because it devalues all those years invested. Having to start over from scratch in the new game is only worth it if the game becomes more meaningful than their old one, if they join the new game then the old game must burn to justify their move. Solution: wage a hate campaign against every (new) game you're not playing and think that you're helping your game retain it's relevance... or so they think. I find this to be especially true with the group mentioned earlier.
The entertainment business hasn't really brought anything new to the table since the 90's, MMO's more than any other sector of the industry encourages us all to be vocal on t'interwebs due to the nature of the product. Combine that with this site attracting people who have already played a lot of games and are looking for the next game to make their jaw drop like their first or second did it can make for some ugly perceptions of titles.
TOR has many faults but apart from the one claim that said "an endgame you've never seen before, but we can't talk about it" there really isn't anything that stands out that means it should be ridiculed as much as it is being.
Entertainment is like art, it's all the same until some genious comes along. People need to stop expecting those geniouses to be involved in every single MMO release as they only come along once or twice every decade or two.
But a big problem is that a lot of those people don't even know what a MMO is and are consumed by WoW's definition of it due to it's financial success and popularity. Unfortunately devs are a part of those people and can you really blame money grubbing CEOs and CFOs for trying to mimick lightning captured in a bottle? We know they're greedmongers (my pretty poney from WoW anyone?) yet we expect them not to be? ...
A game having faults is to be expected. Some devs can't even learn from their own mistakes (SOE NCsoft SE to name a few) yet we expect devs to learn from other dev's mistakes? It's that whole 'works on paper but never works in reality' thing.
And then there's this vocal minority on forums like this who will forever be upset and they can thank WoW for that, era of the casual. We went from being the only MMO consumer to being the minority. Get used to it and adapt or move on from it(MMOs) is what I have to say, if you don't then you're going to be very unhappy in life as it's not changing anytime soon. Even our precious GW2 can't make that much of an impact.(and that's ignoring it's flaws that all games will have)
P.S. Not sure if you meant to quote someone else
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Nah, i meant to quote you, at least for the first paragraph. The rest was just me rambling.
I think you attribute too much to WoW and not enough to corporations not taking a chance. Once upon a time taking a chance on something that seemed totaly radical could define a generation. Now the artists are employed for their past works and not for their visions of the future in their genre.
How many game, movie, music or TV artists could you name in the past decade that innovated and succeded? Very few i'd imagine. The vast majority are still riding on previous successes and trying to mimic them. Not because no one can do anything different, but because the creative people aren't the ones with the clout. Sadly the ones with clout also have the money and also have the say.
They call it a review haha. Fan boy ranting is as much of a review as pure hating ranting. Neither of them even help to judge how the game is and neither should even try calling what they say a 'review'.
Sweet Jesus AMEN! I was waiting for a post like this for ages! It at least give an explanation to all the hate! Both of you imo nailed the problem with people in here!
Thank you ^^
Originally posted by Kabaal
Originally posted by Cavod
P.S. Not sure if you meant to quote someone else
Nah, i meant to quote you, at least for the first paragraph. The rest was just me rambling. I think you attribute too much to WoW and not enough to corporations not taking a chance. Once upon a time taking a chance on something that seemed totaly radical could define a generation. Now the artists are employed for their past works and not for their visions of the future in their genre.
I see. In that case I think we're actually pretty close in opinion then. I do agree with you about the companies. However, I can understand why they don't want to take chances as they usually end up as flops.
Also, it don't blame WoW so much as I do the effect WoW had. Maybe I'm nitpicking here. It's kind of like if a person walks into a room and everyone(for whatever reason) spills their soda because they were gawking or w/e, it's not the fault of the person entering the room, it's the fault of all the dolts spilling their soda.
WAR took a chance with it's PQ system and what do they have to show for it. I'm not saying it didn't have it's problems but look where we're at now. We see Rift expanding on the idea and GW2 taking it even further. Who knows where it'll finally end up at but you can be sure that WAR will not be the better for it.
From a 'money money money' position in a company, I can totally see where the hesitation comes in. It's more financially responsible to wait for the idea to be tried a few times and then go in and swing for the homerun after you've seen how the pitcher is throwing.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
I totally lost fate in people on these forum the day i saw a post with the name : When did you figured out the game was SERIOUSLY but SERIOUSLY flawed? and then the guy wrote in it the game was seriously flawed because he could'nt sit on every chair of the game.
As it was said before, we have to adapt. We are a community of gamers, more people play a game the better it is because i play mmo's to be with people and have fun with them! But i know, even GW2 will be flamed... Take SWTOR, before it was out it was supposed to be heaven in a box! Then once it was out and most people in here figured out they wouldnt get a real lightsaber by mail they got all pissed and started raging on the game!
To those i'd suggest to stop buying mmo's because you will never, but never, sincerely... never be happy about every single mmo's that will be released in the next 10 years. Or better, why don't you do something usefull and go be game devs and create a super game from scratch! Trust me, i'll be the first to roam your game to find every little piece of stuff that doesnt work then rant about it in here!
Anyway... gotta accept it, i won't change people in here!
Sweet Jesus AMEN! I was waiting for a post like this for ages! It at least give an explanation to all the hate! Both of you imo nailed the problem with people in here!
Thank you ^^
Originally posted by Kabaal
Originally posted by Cavod
P.S. Not sure if you meant to quote someone else
Nah, i meant to quote you, at least for the first paragraph. The rest was just me rambling.
I think you attribute too much to WoW and not enough to corporations not taking a chance. Once upon a time taking a chance on something that seemed totaly radical could define a generation. Now the artists are employed for their past works and not for their visions of the future in their genre.
I see. In that case I think we're actually pretty close in opinion then. I do agree with you about the companies. However, I can understand why they don't want to take chances as they usually end up as flops.
Also, it don't blame WoW so much as I do the effect WoW had. Maybe I'm nitpicking here. It's kind of like if a person walks into a room and everyone(for whatever reason) spills their soda because they were gawking or w/e, it's not the fault of the person entering the room, it's the fault of all the dolts spilling their soda.
WAR took a chance with it's PQ system and what do they have to show for it. I'm not saying it didn't have it's problems but look where we're at now. We see Rift expanding on the idea and GW2 taking it even further. Who knows where it'll finally end up at but you can be sure that WAR will not be the better for it.
From a 'money money money' position in a company, I can totally see where the hesitation comes in. It's more financially responsible to wait for the idea to be tried a few times and then go in and swing for the homerun after you've seen how the pitcher is throwing.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
Am I killing it because I won't accept games that are worse then the ones before or because I won't accept boring casual solo pretend MMOs?
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
Am I killing it because I won't accept games that are worse then the ones before or because I won't accept boring casual solo pretend MMOs?
First of all this is your opinion and imo doesn't represent the truth in mmo's second yes you are not helping innovation here!
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
I didn't say new, I said different. When I spoke of new, it was disconnected from SWTOR except for when I said "new/expanded on" in which case SWTOR meets the 'expanded on' qualifier... I then refered to it as 'baby steps'. SWTOR did take VO and companion characters further, ie expanded on.
If you don't think the budget, VO and companions are 'different' when it comes to MMOs then I don't have a conversation for you.
We can surmise that you feel there was no risk involved in this game? If that is the case then why are so many people saying it's a failure? Risk is closely tied to the word 'loss' and the degree of it's (loss) presence. The question of failure proves risk's involvement.
risk: exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance
Fact of the matter is too many people around here are 'shooting for the stars' in both their words and opinions and it's simply not realistic in any fashion.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
Agreed.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
Agreed.
This is so true!
The cycle is pretty like endless :
1 - Rumor of new MMO about something really cool are leaking
2 - People get excited
3 - Some people read about it and predict stuff
4 - Same people get into beta and expect a complete game
5 - They figure out it has some problems
6 - Game gets to be for them seriously flawed for the rest of the game life
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
I didn't say new, I said different. When I spoke of new, it was disconnected from SWTOR except for when I said "new/expanded on" in which case SWTOR meets the 'expanded on' qualifier... I then refered to it as 'baby steps'. SWTOR did take VO and companion characters further, ie expanded on.
If you don't think the budget, VO and companions are 'different' when it comes to MMOs then I don't have a conversation for you.
We can surmise that you feel there was no risk involved in this game? If that is the case then why are so many people saying it's a failure? Risk is closely tied to the word 'loss' and the degree of it's (loss) presence. The question of failure proves risk's involvement.
risk: exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance
Fact of the matter is too many people around here are 'shooting for the stars' in both their words and opinions and it's simply not realistic in any fashion.
You said "new" twice in the part of your post I qouted.
Different? Sure Risky? Nope
Of course there is some risk. But honestly when I look at the features the only way I could see making a less risky choice would have been not to make the game at all.
Again I don't believe I am "shooting for the stars". I just want a good fully featured MMO that is designed around good PVE and Guild on guild/Faction on Faction combat, in a vitural world. Not just another crappy half done casual solo RPG, pretending to be an MMO.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
Agreed.
This is so true!
The cycle is pretty like endless :
1 - Rumor of new MMO about something really cool are leaking
2 - People get excited
3 - Some people read about it and predict stuff
4 - Same people get into beta and expect a complete game
5 - They figure out it has some problems
6 - Game gets to be for them seriously flawed for the rest of the game life
7 - repeat step 1
#5(and lil going onto 6) is a big irk for me because it's so true. I'll never understand how us fallible people in a fallible world expect a perfect product.
For me, SWTOR is within the acceptable zone as where games like FFXIV or DCUO(despite how much I wanted it to be) were not. As mentioned in the OP's video (oh yeah we're still in that topic xD) I think it would have been wonderful if SWTOR's combat system was closer to DCUO.
MMOs are always boasted as 'living' in the gaming genre yet 'we' seem to find it unacceptable to allow said MMOs to mature as anything 'living' needs.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
Agreed.
This is so true!
The cycle is pretty like endless :
1 - Rumor of new MMO about something really cool are leaking
2 - People get excited
3 - Some people read about it and predict stuff
4 - Same people get into beta and expect a complete game
5 - They figure out it has some problems
6 - Game gets to be for them seriously flawed for the rest of the game life
7 - repeat step 1
#5(and lil going onto 6) is a big irk for me because it's so true. I'll never understand how us fallible people in a fallible world expect a perfect product.
For me, SWTOR is within the acceptable zone as where games like FFXIV or DCUO(despite how much I wanted it to be) were not. As mentioned in the OP's video (oh yeah we're still in that topic xD) I think it would have been wonderful if SWTOR's combat system was closer to DCUO.
MMOs are always boasted as 'living' in the gaming genre yet 'we' seem to find it unacceptable to allow said MMOs to mature as anything 'living' needs.
Yes, and the argument of : " the game is flawed cuz it doesn't provide anything never seen before in an mmo"
Humans are pretty much flawed cuz since a couple of millions years the human body didn't evolved much and comes with the same features it has since a couple millions years...
Why cant some people like it and some not -- some people like chocolate ice cream some dont -- the majority of the people here dont understand the concept of opinions - we all have one and we wont always agree - knowing tho that most haters are griping in the forums and most people who like it are playing it - these forums are heavily hate biasd because of that reason.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
Am I killing it because I won't accept games that are worse then the ones before or because I won't accept boring casual solo pretend MMOs?
First of all this is your opinion and imo doesn't represent the truth in mmo's second yes you are not helping innovation here!
EA needs to go Bankrupt period. I Will toast in champagne if that day ever comes. If BIOWAREs Employees get fired over this game I will applaud, less Tools in the industry...(lets hope they cant find new jobbs and have to live on the street eating garbage). The FACT that they could have done so much more with this IP. And made another clone they deserve it PERIOD...
Bad game is Bad game.. And the faster this game dies the better.....
Same here, I will do a dance of glee when the day comes and they fire the majority of the staff in the parking lot ... Vanguard style
EA needs to go Bankrupt period. I Will toast in champagne if that day ever comes. If BIOWAREs Employees get fired over this game I will applaud, less Tools in the industry...(lets hope they cant find new jobbs and have to live on the street eating garbage). The FACT that they could have done so much more with this IP. And made another clone they deserve it PERIOD...
Bad game is Bad game.. And the faster this game dies the better.....
Same here, I will do a dance of glee when the day comes and they fire the majority of the staff in the parking lot ... Vanguard style
OMG Skaara55 and Morbid77 are you serious? You don't like a GAME and so you hope an entire company goes bankrupt and people get fired? Are you sick? That is beyond disturbing and more into the realm of mental illness. I may get warned or banned for this, but I want you to know I reported both of you for this. You two need help. It is just a GAME after all. If you don't like it go play something else.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Comments
I totally agree with this.
One thing I've been noticing with SWTOR is there are a lot of 'WoW kiddies'(as in people who's first game was WoW) apart of that group. It's where 'wow clone' and 'wow killer' come from. Long time MMOers know better than to use those terms.
Idr if it was in this thread or another but someone mentioned how people typically don't want to move away from their old game because it devalues all those years invested. Having to start over from scratch in the new game is only worth it if the game becomes more meaningful than their old one, if they join the new game then the old game must burn to justify their move. Solution: wage a hate campaign against every (new) game you're not playing and think that you're helping your game retain it's relevance... or so they think. I find this to be especially true with the group mentioned earlier.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
The entertainment business hasn't really brought anything new to the table since the 90's, MMO's more than any other sector of the industry encourages us all to be vocal on t'interwebs due to the nature of the product. Combine that with this site attracting people who have already played a lot of games and are looking for the next game to make their jaw drop like their first or second did it can make for some ugly perceptions of titles.
TOR has many faults but apart from the one claim that said "an endgame you've never seen before, but we can't talk about it" there really isn't anything that stands out that means it should be ridiculed as much as it is being.
Entertainment is like art, it's all the same until some genious comes along. People need to stop expecting those geniouses to be involved in every single MMO release as they only come along once or twice every decade or two.
Speeking for myself the reason I'm negative on most games out now is because by far and large they are trying to be WoW in every way. I don't like that kiddie cartoony 'game' made for intellectually challanged children. Until companies at least try to do something different, I'll keep spewing my displeasure.
I said MY displeasure, not trying to insist it is everyones displeasure but I sure wish it was so people will stop buying the damn things and companies will stop trying to see $ signs if they try any more copy/paste kiddie games.
Sweet Jesus AMEN! I was waiting for a post like this for ages! It at least give an explanation to all the hate! Both of you imo nailed the problem with people in here!
But a big problem is that a lot of those people don't even know what a MMO is and are consumed by WoW's definition of it due to it's financial success and popularity. Unfortunately devs are a part of those people and can you really blame money grubbing CEOs and CFOs for trying to mimick lightning captured in a bottle? We know they're greedmongers (my pretty poney from WoW anyone?) yet we expect them not to be? ...
A game having faults is to be expected. Some devs can't even learn from their own mistakes (SOE NCsoft SE to name a few) yet we expect devs to learn from other dev's mistakes? It's that whole 'works on paper but never works in reality' thing.
And then there's this vocal minority on forums like this who will forever be upset and they can thank WoW for that, era of the casual. We went from being the only MMO consumer to being the minority. Get used to it and adapt or move on from it(MMOs) is what I have to say, if you don't then you're going to be very unhappy in life as it's not changing anytime soon. Even our precious GW2 can't make that much of an impact.(and that's ignoring it's flaws that all games will have)
P.S. Not sure if you meant to quote someone else
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Nah, i meant to quote you, at least for the first paragraph. The rest was just me rambling.
I think you attribute too much to WoW and not enough to corporations not taking a chance. Once upon a time taking a chance on something that seemed totaly radical could define a generation. Now the artists are employed for their past works and not for their visions of the future in their genre.
How many game, movie, music or TV artists could you name in the past decade that innovated and succeded? Very few i'd imagine. The vast majority are still riding on previous successes and trying to mimic them. Not because no one can do anything different, but because the creative people aren't the ones with the clout. Sadly the ones with clout also have the money and also have the say.
They call it a review haha. Fan boy ranting is as much of a review as pure hating ranting. Neither of them even help to judge how the game is and neither should even try calling what they say a 'review'.
Also, it don't blame WoW so much as I do the effect WoW had. Maybe I'm nitpicking here. It's kind of like if a person walks into a room and everyone(for whatever reason) spills their soda because they were gawking or w/e, it's not the fault of the person entering the room, it's the fault of all the dolts spilling their soda.
WAR took a chance with it's PQ system and what do they have to show for it. I'm not saying it didn't have it's problems but look where we're at now. We see Rift expanding on the idea and GW2 taking it even further. Who knows where it'll finally end up at but you can be sure that WAR will not be the better for it.
From a 'money money money' position in a company, I can totally see where the hesitation comes in. It's more financially responsible to wait for the idea to be tried a few times and then go in and swing for the homerun after you've seen how the pitcher is throwing.
SWTOR is a great example. Like it or not it's undeniable that they tried something different and took a big chance. 100+ m, fully voiced over, companions etc... and now look where they stand. This forum would have you believe it was a complete failure. As a CEO, what incentive would you have to 'risk doing something new' if 'something kind of new/ expanded on' is met with such doom and gloom. If baby steps 'fail so horribly' then why should huge bounding leaps be attempted?
Crud! Now I'm rambling. lol
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
I totally lost fate in people on these forum the day i saw a post with the name : When did you figured out the game was SERIOUSLY but SERIOUSLY flawed? and then the guy wrote in it the game was seriously flawed because he could'nt sit on every chair of the game.
As it was said before, we have to adapt. We are a community of gamers, more people play a game the better it is because i play mmo's to be with people and have fun with them! But i know, even GW2 will be flamed... Take SWTOR, before it was out it was supposed to be heaven in a box! Then once it was out and most people in here figured out they wouldnt get a real lightsaber by mail they got all pissed and started raging on the game!
To those i'd suggest to stop buying mmo's because you will never, but never, sincerely... never be happy about every single mmo's that will be released in the next 10 years. Or better, why don't you do something usefull and go be game devs and create a super game from scratch! Trust me, i'll be the first to roam your game to find every little piece of stuff that doesnt work then rant about it in here!
Anyway... gotta accept it, i won't change people in here!
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
It goes back to the same nonsense of us expecting every single release to be a piece of art, then ripping it to shreds just because it's contemprary rather than abstract.
Am I killing it because I won't accept games that are worse then the ones before or because I won't accept boring casual solo pretend MMOs?
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
First of all this is your opinion and imo doesn't represent the truth in mmo's second yes you are not helping innovation here!
I didn't say new, I said different. When I spoke of new, it was disconnected from SWTOR except for when I said "new/expanded on" in which case SWTOR meets the 'expanded on' qualifier... I then refered to it as 'baby steps'. SWTOR did take VO and companion characters further, ie expanded on.
If you don't think the budget, VO and companions are 'different' when it comes to MMOs then I don't have a conversation for you.
We can surmise that you feel there was no risk involved in this game? If that is the case then why are so many people saying it's a failure? Risk is closely tied to the word 'loss' and the degree of it's (loss) presence. The question of failure proves risk's involvement.
risk: exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance
Fact of the matter is too many people around here are 'shooting for the stars' in both their words and opinions and it's simply not realistic in any fashion.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Agreed.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
This is so true!
The cycle is pretty like endless :
1 - Rumor of new MMO about something really cool are leaking
2 - People get excited
3 - Some people read about it and predict stuff
4 - Same people get into beta and expect a complete game
5 - They figure out it has some problems
6 - Game gets to be for them seriously flawed for the rest of the game life
7 - repeat step 1
You said "new" twice in the part of your post I qouted.
Different? Sure Risky? Nope
Of course there is some risk. But honestly when I look at the features the only way I could see making a less risky choice would have been not to make the game at all.
Again I don't believe I am "shooting for the stars". I just want a good fully featured MMO that is designed around good PVE and Guild on guild/Faction on Faction combat, in a vitural world. Not just another crappy half done casual solo RPG, pretending to be an MMO.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
#5(and lil going onto 6) is a big irk for me because it's so true. I'll never understand how us fallible people in a fallible world expect a perfect product.
For me, SWTOR is within the acceptable zone as where games like FFXIV or DCUO(despite how much I wanted it to be) were not. As mentioned in the OP's video (oh yeah we're still in that topic xD) I think it would have been wonderful if SWTOR's combat system was closer to DCUO.
MMOs are always boasted as 'living' in the gaming genre yet 'we' seem to find it unacceptable to allow said MMOs to mature as anything 'living' needs.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Yes, and the argument of : " the game is flawed cuz it doesn't provide anything never seen before in an mmo"
Humans are pretty much flawed cuz since a couple of millions years the human body didn't evolved much and comes with the same features it has since a couple millions years...
Why cant some people like it and some not -- some people like chocolate ice cream some dont -- the majority of the people here dont understand the concept of opinions - we all have one and we wont always agree - knowing tho that most haters are griping in the forums and most people who like it are playing it - these forums are heavily hate biasd because of that reason.
Your last paragraph is leading to what i believe, the community will kill mmo's, not the devs nor the companies... The gamers themself, us!
What did they do new? VO? Story? Companions? So adding features from your best selling game to a wantable copy of another best selling game, is now risky? Yeah I think that is about as risky as the first burger man adding cheese and bacon to his burger.
It couldn't be the MMO part of SWTOR is badly designed and programmed game built on a game engine that wasn't ready? Naw couldn't be that....
Did you paid any attention to the part : We gamers will kill the industry? Now look at your post and wonder why you could be a part of killing it!
Am I killing it because I won't accept games that are worse then the ones before or because I won't accept boring casual solo pretend MMOs?
First of all this is your opinion and imo doesn't represent the truth in mmo's second yes you are not helping innovation here!
EA needs to go Bankrupt period. I Will toast in champagne if that day ever comes. If BIOWAREs Employees get fired over this game I will applaud, less Tools in the industry...(lets hope they cant find new jobbs and have to live on the street eating garbage). The FACT that they could have done so much more with this IP. And made another clone they deserve it PERIOD...
Bad game is Bad game.. And the faster this game dies the better.....
Same here, I will do a dance of glee when the day comes and they fire the majority of the staff in the parking lot ... Vanguard stylewat
OMG Skaara55 and Morbid77 are you serious? You don't like a GAME and so you hope an entire company goes bankrupt and people get fired? Are you sick? That is beyond disturbing and more into the realm of mental illness. I may get warned or banned for this, but I want you to know I reported both of you for this. You two need help. It is just a GAME after all. If you don't like it go play something else.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"