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Dynamic Events compared to questing
style360
Member Posts: 70
Now, before I start this, I feel like I should say that I'm hyped for this game just like everybody else, but I think we should try to avoid "overhyping" the game to the point where it can't live up to expectations and die a painful death.
So one thing that's been bugging me is that to me, the DE's (Dynamic Events) seems to be a lot like regular questing, just without accepting the quest. You still kill 10 rats or interact with something for the most part, and the consequences of the DEs don't seem immediately apparent.
Does anybody have any video/gameplay proof that DE are that much more than just "organic" questing? Or are we just taking Arena Net's word for it?
Comments
I love the Idea but I was really disapointed by the recent videos, if anyone can link to a good video that shows some good DE I would gladly edit my post...
There tons of videos on the DEs, including press conferences and gameplay videos. Just google Guild Wars 2 and click videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUcGBL56Ng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iN6G2jExs
There are a lot of DEs that they haven't talked about yet, so it's hard to say. If you've ever played Rift, then you can get an idea of how they feel. I tihnk they wanted to avoid the whole "kills 10 of thse" scenarios, so instead, there is a progress meter that goes up as you complete the various things needed for the DE. For instance, if a town is being attacked, you participate by killing the invaders, putting out fires, or reviving NPCs. There's not like a set number of fire you need to put out, monsters to kill, ot people to help. It's when enough is done, the evern will conclude.
There's a wide range on the DE content; some probably feel like traditional quests more than others, but at least there are tangible effects of your actions. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "more than organic questing", but that's kind of what they are. If you compare a quest in a traditional game that has you fending off invaders to a dynamic event, the idea is pretty similatr in the sense that you are simply killing invaders. However, in GW2, there isn't a specific number you need to kill; well, there is running in the background, but it's not displayed numerically, because it changes depending on the scaling. Also, once the invaders are defeated, they won't be around anymore. Not sure if that answers your question.
It's not overhyping when it has been shown. There are many videos showing this in detail but I think my most memorable is totalbiscuits first time playing GW. You see him come across a few DE's and it was clearly by accident. While I agree that expectations can get to high, I think on the topic of DE's vs. quests it's really all there and people have experienced it. Anet has done a good job of explaining what DE's are and aren't. It's kinda getting silly when people keep throwing out the phrase overhype in regards to GW2, yet the things people are hyped about are in videos and in the game and there has been documented video of it working.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I noticed this too, but for starters, most people haven't gotten very high in level in order to see how complex and cool the upper DE's become, and secondly, just because the results are not immediately apparent doesn't mean something hasn't changed. They've mentioned that some DE's only have 1 or 2 stages, but I'm betting later on, when they feel you've been properly introduced to the concept via hands-on experience, they'll let loose. Just a guess though.
I truly believe that despite their name, DEs aren't about changing the world, they're about cooperation.
Quests are isolating for a variety of reasons. You need to be on the same stage as someone. If you do group with someone and they log, it makes you not want to keep playing because then you're just going to have to repeat the content when they return. Even if you do them with someone the content doesn't scale so they're trivial, or you need to get double the number of items. You can't play with someone and be rewarded if you've already done the content. You can't play with someone if you're totally different levels without trivializing it. If you don't group with people, then you're competing against them and can be griefed by them. And as people get to endgame, leveling an alt is even more lonely than the first time because few other people are doing it.
What DEs (and some of ArenaNet's other features) do is combine to make a truly cooperative experience. They want there to be as little griefing as possible. They want other people to never hurt you. They want you to want to see other people. Everyone gets full xp and loot rights for helping kill a mob. Combine that with DEs that scale up with more people and you have a recipe for natural cooperation. More mobs spawn which means more xp and loot for everyone. As DEs chain or even if you hit the end of a chain, you're going to want to continue adventuring together. It's more rewarding, more chaotic and fun, you've got people around you to rez you and protect you, and to perform cross profession combos with. With their automentoring system, you can replay any content and be rewarded, so there's always something to get out of revisiting old zones, and you can play with any friend regardless of level difference.
All the other features like persistent change and failability and being more immersive are all great, but even better will be being able to play with friends and being able to make new ones in the open world. That's something the MMO genre has really gotten away from imho.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
People actually are expecting too much from events. Events are not meant to revolutionize goals and objectives. Players will still be killing enemies, collecting items, escorting NPCs, and doing just about anything else that could be found in a quest. Some will alter the world, but this is only a "nice touch" that ArenaNet has added. It's not the focal point.
The difference is context.
The objectives for a quest are tied to an individual player. We'll just take the "Kill 10 rats" example. In order to complete the quest, the player must kill 10 rats. If any rat dies by any means other than that player, it does not count. Once the player kills all 10 rats, the objective is complete, and the player moves on.
In an event, the objectives are tied to a location. A "Kill 10 rats" event would require that 10 rats are killed in a certain area. It doesn't matter who kills these rats, but 10 of them must be killed. After a total of 10 rats are killed, the objective is complete, and all players involved move on.
The key difference is how players involve themselves with each other. Events naturally cause players to work together and move as a group. When an event is completed, everyone moves to the next stage. This is completely different from a quest, where players are encouraged to leave as soon as their own goals are completed. There is no reason for players to help each other complete their objectives unless they happen to be on the same stage. In an event, any player's objectives are the same as nearby players every time.
Events encourage players to socialize. Quests discourage players from socializing. That's why they're revolutionary.
Note that their effect is diminished if quests are still the primary form of content, as is the case of WAR and Rift.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I don't think the goal of dynamic events is to revolutionize the leveling experience. There are a few things I'm personally looking forward to with dynamic events that sets them apart from standard questing.
Working with other players instead of competing against them for objectives.
Having hubs of activity to bring more life to the game world outside of the standard city hubs.
Being rewarded based on my effort and skill instead of based on a static number.
Those few things alone will bring me lots of happiness if they are done correctly.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Something else you should note is that because DE's are constantly cycling, and players are scaled to the power level of the area they're in, all dynamic events are available to every player at max level. That's 100% replayability if there was a dynamic event stage that you enjoyed. And I can't imagine you wouldn't enjoy doing something like this.
Alot of the actions you did before in quests are carried over too DE, but the freedom, openness, and the organic presentation of DE makes things a shitload different.
A lot of this is related to how a WoW type question setup is extremely constricting.
I think only the minority are considering it to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. You're right, dynamic events aren't revolutionary; they've been done before. Regardless, the game still looks like tons of fun. I played Rift for about two months, and the dynamic event were, by far, the most enjoyable thing in the game for me. That's one of the reasons that I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 2; I feel like I've already had a small piece of what it has to offer. Peronally, one of the things that I hated most about traditional quests wasn't necessarilly the activities, but that there were so damn many of them that were thrown at me at any given time. I know that GW2 has a millions events, but it looks like you're really only going be focusing on one at a time. The game will less schizophrenic that way.
What we've seen is that the most mundane of DE's are still more interactive and co-op friendly than the best of the old type. That's good enough for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83_Ei14H6Ag&feature=relmfu
Look at the whole video.
Guys must understand press beta was in low level areas there is mofo 25 zones and you guys only saw 3 lmao from the press beta. The first dungeon, wvwvw, and pvp. Please take time to understand this there are 1500 DE's, I don't even think we have seen 60 all together.
Having beta test it last year if you are expecting to be dissappointed how they play out in lvl 40 areas and what not, you'll be dissappointed about not being dissappointed lmao.
Nah but on the real though wait till after beta, I do know for a fact on the OP concerns based on what I've experienced last year and what I've seen there isn't nothing to be concerned about in these regards. Unless your trying your best to be dissappointed and not take time. However with that being said...
I'll let the game do the "walking" when it releases, wether it's a strong one or a weak one we'll find out. Even though I know what it is.
Take care guys and have fun.
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Who is following this game since they first started explain mechanics, knows exactly what to expect in DEs. Still a questing system, but with a different presentation..and thats what makes DEs looks a lot better then normal quests.(and refreshing)
Ppl who just find out now what is Gw2, are expecting too much. I can see that here, by how they tought something was like that, but in the "recents" videos, they find out is nothing they previously assumed.
The ones like me will enjoy this game for what it is, not for what should be like.
This has actually already been showing.
I'm guessing most people have either forgetten about (I can't believe this) or haven't seen the videos of players battling the shatterer (giant crystal dragon which is present in the first GW). This DE is very large, and complex, leading to multiple outcomes / ways of fighting the dragon at the end. It also takes a massive amount of people to deal with this event.
The recent press beta was indeed low-lvl, but they have demoed some of the higher lvl content in addition to some of the mid-lvl content for shows.
Exactly, those who've been paying attention what arenanet have been saying know exactly what to expect
DE's have some instances of being epic and branching, but for the most part they're fun activities to discover when messing around with friends (or just on your own). What sets the apart from quests is that they force you to get out there and explore. The whole experience is totally different because the 'quest hub' no longer exists.
As arenanet get better and better with writing DE's, we'll see even better 'epic' ones later on. Just compare prophecies to eye of the nort in terms of quest/mission quality. They're miles apart.
Dynamic questing is just means not having to pick up a quest etc Say there is a quest where u have to kill a certain mob, if you come accross it while travelling and kill it, you've completed that quest.
I agree about the hype, people are talking it up so much that the game will not fail to dissapoint them. To borrow a phrase, I have no problem with GW2, only the the fanboys.
automatic questing will also take all social aspects out of the questing, just like rift where everyone gets in a group and no one communicates.
lol
As Shroom Mage so succinctly put it, there are only limited social aspects to questing these days. There was socializing back in the EQ days because you needed a full group to do anything and 5 of them would be sitting around waiting on the puller so they had a chance to talk. Ever since quests and MMOs in general became easier to solo than to try to find a group for, the social aspect has gone away.
DEs differ from rifts in a couple of important aspects, all of which increase the likelyhood of socializing.
First, GW2 is purely cooperative. You're not competing against anybody in the open world for anything; not for XP, not for loot, not even for gathering nodes. Not only that but you get rewarded for helping someone kill a mob (and take nothing away from them). You want to see other people because it means you're going to get more XP and loot, but the events will scale up to be more chaotic and fun. More enemies will spawn and boss mobs will gain more abilities.
Second, dynamic events ARE the open world content, not a sideshow to quests. That's one problem with rifts. People might only do one because its in their way, or preventing them from turning in a quest. People have a tendency to scatter and go do whatever it was that they had been on their way to do before.
Related to that is that a lot of DEs chain. If you do an event with people, if the event chains into another one there's absolutely no incentive to leave. Even if the chain ends, the xp bonus and security of being with people tends to encourage people to travel together to find another one. The longer people stay together, the more likely they are to talk. Things like cross profession combos and anyone rezzing anyone else can turn out to be conversation starters where in other games you might truly have just been playing along side them but not interacting.
Also add to that GW2's automentoring system. You don't have to worry about being a different level than someone the next time you log on. You can group with that person no problem.
This is why I think people who dismiss DEs as being just quests in a different skin really don't understand them. It's not just about DEs. It's about a developer making a bunch of different design decisions that all come together to encourage cooperation and socialization.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I think some people have an unrealistic expectation that they are going to log on and just get this relentless assault of amazing events exploding all over the place.
Its still a quest driven event system with familiar objectives with hopefully a pretty cool payoff like a boss fight.
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Execution is better than Consept, you can speculate all you want. good consepts can be executed badly. isn't that the reason we all dislike SWTOR.
Because i can.
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I think this was executed pretty well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEs5OcFD8t8
For me the main bonus of these dynamic events is that I just can run into some direction and explore and help in whatever event I happen to find. Also when exploring into a direction that in other games would give me outlvled content, I would automatically scale down in lvl so it would stay interesting anyway. This is what makes it sound really good for me.
Because of this my friends can start in any starting zone and we can still meet up. We dont have a journal filled with our own starting quests. Also when I am already higher lvl (which always happens) , because of the autoscaling down, I still can go join them (I dont like 1 shotting grey mobs). This is just plain awesome and one of the main reasons I look forward to this game.
Oh and WvW with pve events in a pvp zone. Can't wait!
DE are replacing quests as the backbone of the MMORPG in gw2. Yes this is revolitionizing the genre. The quest was not that revolutiuonary of an idea, all of a sudden WoW strings tons of them together in a very controled enviroment and the MMO genre is changed forever.
For a good overview of how events work watch this: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing_Guild_Wars_2_Dynamic_Events
For more information read these:
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/
http://www.arena.net/blog/colin-johanson-answers-your-dynamic-event-questions
http://www.arena.net/blog/eric-flannum-answers-more-of-your-dynamic-event-questions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event