Its a sandbox, saying otherwise is just ridiculous.
Sandbox games can have quests, UO had quests.
Sandbox games can have instances.
stop trying to redefine something that already HAS a definition. Just because you think you are some sort of magical defining machine that can magically redefine things as they see fit.
Wikipedia has "Non linear game play" and "Open world" as both "Sand box"
From what ive seen in Korea CBT and some really nice articles, the game is already MIND BLOWING, and to me its SCARY in some points.
Just think about the differences between servers with all these awesome sandbox tools, imagine you manage to create such a large woodcraft corporation you monopolite all the woods and the rest of the server cant do shit about this.
Or just a huge pirate float you manage to control the seven seas of Archeage, and the rest of the server fear you and try to join you desperately :P.
I guess you see my point, maybe in another server there arent such things and people take it easier, the possibilites within this are amazing.
It is kinda both good and bad. When a guild controls a certain percentage of the game and more or less own it the game gets really boring fast.That is both for the guild who suddenly have no opposition and the rest of the server that can´t do Jack S*** (and Jack left the building) without the approval of the dominating guild.
It is kinda like what EA and Activision does for computer games...
While some smuggling and resistance fighting still can be fun most of it gets boring. That means you at that point needs a reset unless you have some mechanics that wont allow a guild to own most of the server.
All the points up to being the dominating guild is fun though but after that it is like playing after you already won, not fun anymore.
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. You only mentioned themepark features and sandbox features. How is that a definition of sandbox or themepark? Your definition was like ' sandpark MMO's are mostly sandparkish and themepark MMO's are mostly themeparkish' LOL
Then you clearly dont see that you were discussing with others what a sandbox MMO entails and then trying to put Archage into your personal view. I say personal, because as many (like in other discussions) other posters were not agreeing with you about the definition. If you cant agree on the definition (Im getting a little tired of it now), then you are not ready to put MMO's into categories.
If you refuse to see that there is no consensus in the first place, then imo you are simply not able to discuss this.
As for my definition. I keep it simple by looking whether progression is lineair or if there are also alternative progression paths. (no sandbox schmandbox). Keep in mind that this doesnt say anything about whether there are quests or classes. If you start thinking in those terms, you only think in restrictive terms and you are caught into thinking inside the box. Apart from that, it is my personal observation and Im not interested in convincing others, because I do realise that it is a pure arbitrary definition that caters to my MMO preference.
This is the problem with the whole sandbox discussion. It is done by evangelists that molded the definition according to their preference. So in other people's eyes it just looks arbitrary.
So AA is not a true total sandbox game,it has themepark features thrown in with great sandbox features.
Glad you agreed with me.
Sorry...but what exactly are these themepark features you're on about? Do you mean quests? Because quests have been in almost every MMO, themepark or no. And this game seems to have no instancing, though instancing doesn't make a game a themepark.
Yes, quests are a themepark feature. AA is a hybrid 'sandpark' game, which has even been stated by XL.
Sylvarii is perfectly correct.
...What? How are quests a themepark feature? Ultima Online had quests. SWG had quests. Almost every MMO ever has had quests. They are not a themepark feature.
Dude... Ultima Online is a hybrid, a "Sandpark", everyone knows that.
ArcheAge doesn't even have classes, so im going to patiently wait for all those themepark elements everyone keeps talking about...
Im just not seeing them (luckily, the less themepark BS, the better)
I don't even know why the term themepark exists. Call them what they are. WoW clones.
Sandbox makes sense because each sandbox is WILDLY different from the other. Yet each themepark is almost identical. Even their UIs are copies. The same game design, the same linear loot progression, the same instanced dungeons, the same quest based leveling, the same class systems, the same crafting, the same market, it's sickening.
Here are some great videos with gameplay features, all of them happen in the open world:
Please! somebody post a video of an instanced raid! what about some instanced questing?
I would also love to see a video of a WOW clone crafting, useless and boring.
Or a video of a boss dropping a bind on equip weapon in an instanced dungeon?
I mean ArcheAge is a themepark with some sandbox elements, im sure you guys are going to be able to findd at least 1 of the things i asked....
Remember... AA doesn't have an NDA, so you are free to search anything you want!
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. /snipped... stopped reading because if the foundation of what you say is wrong then everything that follows probably is as well.
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. /snipped... stopped reading because if the foundation of what you say is wrong then everything that follows probably is as well.
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
AA is clearly a hybrid sandpark.
hmm, does it have levels, yes, does it have quests, omg.. i guess thats a themepark then..
the answer is pretty simple, when you get down to it.
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. /snipped... stopped reading because if the foundation of what you say is wrong then everything that follows probably is as well.
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
AA is clearly a hybrid sandpark.
hmm, does it have levels, yes, does it have quests, omg.. i guess thats a themepark then..
the answer is pretty simple, when you get down to it.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... I hope so.
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. /snipped... stopped reading because if the foundation of what you say is wrong then everything that follows probably is as well.
First you didnt even give a definition lol. You only mentioned themepark features and sandbox features. How is that a definition of sandbox or themepark? Your definition was like ' sandpark MMO's are mostly sandparkish and themepark MMO's are mostly themeparkish' LOL
Then you clearly dont see that you were discussing with others what a sandbox MMO entails and then trying to put Archage into your personal view. I say personal, because as many (like in other discussions) other posters were not agreeing with you about the definition. If you cant agree on the definition (Im getting a little tired of it now), then you are not ready to put MMO's into categories.
If you refuse to see that there is no consensus in the first place, then imo you are simply not able to discuss this.
As for my definition. I keep it simple by looking whether progression is lineair or if there are also alternative progression paths. (no sandbox schmandbox). Keep in mind that this doesnt say anything about whether there are quests or classes. If you start thinking in those terms, you only think in restrictive terms and you are caught into thinking inside the box. Apart from that, it is my personal observation and Im not interested in convincing others, because I do realise that it is a pure arbitrary definition that caters to my MMO preference.
This is the problem with the whole sandbox discussion. It is done by evangelists that molded the definition according to their preference. So in other people's eyes it just looks arbitrary.
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
AA is clearly a hybrid sandpark.
Ok, ignoring my response by cutting it out is lame. So I pasted it back in in blue Then you just repeat your 'themeparks are themeparkish and sandboxes are sandboxish' noise. That is not defining a category. Not without explaining what themepark or sandbox features are. Saying ' because it is just a sandpark' holds as much value as your 'definition'.
AA is clearly (based on that 'definition' ?) a hybrid sandpark because sandparks have about 50/50 sandboxish and themeparkish features? LOL
I have to go to work now, but Im going with a smile, so thank you
I think you are overreacting. It's really not the drama situation you make out here.
If a game has predominantly sandbox features it is considered a samdbox game, if it has predominantly themepark, likewise.
If a game is 50/ 50, like XL have stated that AA is intended to be, it is hybrid, or 'sandpark'.
A 'sandbox' can have themepark elements and vice versa, though a true sandbox, a 'pure' one, would give you nothing more then the world and the tools to manipulate that world.
It really isn't complicated.
If you mean that laughing out loud at the logically flaws in every sandbox discussion is overreacting, then I guess I was.
And for your definition, my point is that in every single discussion whether a MMO is a sandbox or whatever, the discussion changes into 'what is a sandbox'. Every time it shows that the ppl who participate in such a discussion cant even agree on this definition.
This makes the discussion whether MMO x is a sandbox, clearly one step to far. Because without consensus about the definition it is just pointless and nothing more then 'yes it is' ' no it isnt 'it so is' 'no way!'
/shrug... there are a lot of confused people out there in internet land. That doesen't invalidate every post about sandboxes.
What 'flaws' are there in what I am saying? What, in the definition I am giving, is not correct?
Rather then talking about 'everyone' else and some general idea you have about 'sandbox discussions', what views do you have on what I actually posted?
First you didnt even give a definition lol. /snipped... stopped reading because if the foundation of what you say is wrong then everything that follows probably is as well.
First you didnt even give a definition lol /snipped again and not read for exactly the same reason as before... please re-read the part in red again.
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
Here are some great videos with gameplay features, all of them happen in the open world:
Please! somebody post a video of an instanced raid! what about some instanced questing?
I would also love to see a video of a WOW clone crafting, useless and boring.
Or a video of a boss dropping a bind on equip weapon in an instanced dungeon?
I mean ArcheAge is a themepark with some sandbox elements, im sure you guys are going to be able to findd at least 1 of the things i asked....
Remember... AA doesn't have an NDA, so you are free to search anything you want!
ArcheAge has two instanced dungeon as it stands now,they were both closed for CBT4,they are just cave entrances now instead of portals.One instanced is on the Nuian continent and the other on the Hariharan continent.
Now, before you blow your bubble and think everyone is against AA,they are not,many of us are looking forward to the game.
Their are many MMO that don't share the WOW crafting boring system,that does not make them sandbox,so what has WOW crafting got to do with this convo?
Dropping a bind on equip is the same,what has it got to do with a game being sandbox?
Fact, AA has a quest system that you see in standard themepark MMOs,arrow or marker over the head questing.It also has Rift invasion type questing that you see in RIFT.
AA also has overland open world bosses like you see in many themepark MMOs.
Now, let's take a look at what AA offers that many or most MMO do not.
Open world housing but you can't build a house anywhere you like but it's open world and non instanced.
Vanguard has the same system,non instanced and open world housing,everything you see in the house,from wallpaper to bricks to mortar to carpet and paint is player made.
AA has ships that are totally player made,everything you see on a ship is made by the players,it's a great feature.
Vanguard has ships of all shapes and seizes which are all player made,everything you see on a ship is made by the player but unlike AA they are aonly used for sailing.
AA system is far better than Vanguards,you can PVP with ships and live the life of a pirate,both Vanguards system and AA are sandbox systems and would both fit right into a sandbox game.
AA has a vast world but also has instances,only two at the moment but it has them,this is fact.
Vanguard has NO instances at all,every single dungeon whether in doors or outside in non instance and in the open world.It also has many overland bosses in the open world.
Vanguard has a vast open world ,everywhere i look i can go.
AA has a skill based quests system that is NOT like darkfalls in the sence that it's tab targetting just like many themepark MMO today.The system is open though and you can do what you want,it's a great mixture of themepark and sandbox features roll into one.
AA has gliders,which are a great feature but that does is not a sandbox feature,it's basicly flying mounts but instead of a dragon or bird you can use gliders.
Vanguard has many flying mounts that are fully controllable in the open world,i can go anywhere.I can fly from one continent to the other,i can cross every mountain,nothing is out of bounds.
AA has a robust crafting system that is not your boring WOW clone.
Vanguard has a deep and rewarding crafting system that is a whole other game in it's self.It has it's own quests and armour with crafting stats and it's would take you just as long to level it up as it does adventuring.You could actually play the game as a crafter and not an killer.
Vanguard also has a diplomacy system that is another whole game in itself and would take you just as long to level as adventuring.It has it;'s own quests and armour and mounts.
Vanguard did have FFA pvp with player looting,no safe areas and no battleground because it has no instances.It had GvG and PvP in a vast open non instanced world.
Nope it didn't have a system like AA which is great but it had it and all in a PVE world with no instabnces.
Do you see where i am going with this,if AA is a sandbox game then Vanguard is a sandbox game and sorry to burst your bubble but Vanguard is not a true sandbox game just like AA is not a true sandbox game.
Both have some very nice sandbox feature,especially AA but they are hybrids.
From what ive seen in Korea CBT and some really nice articles, the game is already MIND BLOWING, and to me its SCARY in some points.
Just think about the differences between servers with all these awesome sandbox tools, imagine you manage to create such a large woodcraft corporation you monopolite all the woods and the rest of the server cant do shit about this.
Or just a huge pirate float you manage to control the seven seas of Archeage, and the rest of the server fear you and try to join you desperately :P.
I guess you see my point, maybe in another server there arent such things and people take it easier, the possibilites within this are amazing.
It is kinda both good and bad. When a guild controls a certain percentage of the game and more or less own it the game gets really boring fast.That is both for the guild who suddenly have no opposition and the rest of the server that can´t do Jack S*** (and Jack left the building) without the approval of the dominating guild.
It is kinda like what EA and Activision does for computer games...
While some smuggling and resistance fighting still can be fun most of it gets boring. That means you at that point needs a reset unless you have some mechanics that wont allow a guild to own most of the server.
All the points up to being the dominating guild is fun though but after that it is like playing after you already won, not fun anymore.
In order to be able to declare war and participate in a siege you must obtain a special drop from the raid boss on the third continent. Sieges only take place on the weekends and last for two hours. You can only have one attacking and one defending expeditionary force (guilds). Each side can currently have only 50 players participating (there are some rumors that if things go well that they will boost it to at least 100 vs. 100). If you're not signed up for the siege or if the player limit goes above the allotted amount you will simply be teleported back to the nearest resurrection shrine if you try to enter the siege area. (these are the rules/limitations in current CBT, but might change somewhat)
-some might call it carebear, but i call it equity as we all know how giant guilds and alliances can ruin the game for others, this way more than few select zerg-guild will have an equal chance of gaining, owning and holding areas on the 3rd continent.
Thus eliminating faceroll zerg-guilds, 4am ninjacapping etc.
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea
Maybe my definition is incorrect though I have been curious about this for a while: is there an official definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; its all about freedom What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests dont count, so what is it?
You are right, but it seems that saying "X is a sandpark because it has quests" is the only argument they have.
Let's call things for what they really are, ArcheAge is a sandbox MMO, it's not a hybrid, we haven't seen an MMO with so many features since Ultima Online.
By the definition of some people, UO is not a sandbox, EvE is a hybrid, etc etc etc.
Nonsense, Lineage 2 is a themepark with sandbox elements, ArcheAge is a fully open world sandbox with no instancing, it can't get more sandbox than that.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
You are right, but it seems that saying "X is a sandpark because it has quests" is the only argument they have.
Let's call things for what they really are, ArcheAge is a sandbox MMO, it's not a hybrid, we haven't seen an MMO with so many features since Ultima Online.
By the definition of some people, UO is not a sandbox, EvE is a hybrid, etc etc etc.
Nonsense, Lineage 2 is a themepark with sandbox elements, ArcheAge is a fully open world sandbox with no instancing, it can't get more sandbox than that.
Trolls are trolls and should be treated as such.
I personally think sandboxes are such as EVE, SWG (rip), Darkfall, MO, UO etc, where you can make a lasting mark on the map/world, build cities/keeps/spacestations, plant stuff, harvest stuff, have open wolrd pvp (not necessarily FFA) etc. (you all know features im talking about)
Having tab-targeting or quests or both doesn't make it any less sandbox, to me, it makes it even MORE of a sanbox, because you're given not only the sanbox stuff, but also some pre-scripted stuff, so you can freely choose wether to do this or that. The more options/choices given to the player, the merrier.
Some fanboys and elitists just go beyond reason to determine what is which and what.
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
The games is discribed by it's own devs as a combination of WOW and UO,that's tells you that it is both sandbox and themepark.
I am looking forward to AA and GW2 is a filler for me so i don't hate AA but i'm just saying that it's a mixture of both.
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
The games is discribed by it's own devs as a combination of WOW and UO,that's tells you that it is both sandbox and themepark.
I am looking forward to AA and GW2 is a filler for me so i don't hate AA but i'm just saying that it's a mixture of both.
The way the dev team describe and market their game doesn’t necessarily define what type of game it actually is.
Let’s say hypothetically NASA somehow claim ownership of the sun. Now, they have all gone completely insane, and they decide to start offering space trips to the sun, branding it as a nice, warm n’ sunny getaway.
This is just how they choose to define and market it. In reality we know that the sun is a very deadly place, and you would die a horrible death before you get even remotely close.
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
The games is discribed by it's own devs as a combination of WOW and UO,that's tells you that it is both sandbox and themepark.
I am looking forward to AA and GW2 is a filler for me so i don't hate AA but i'm just saying that it's a mixture of both.
The way the dev team describe and market their game doesn’t necessarily define what type of game it actually is.
Let’s say hypothetically NASA somehow claim ownership of the sun. Now, they have all gone completely insane, and they decide to start offering space trips to the sun, branding it as a nice, warm n’ sunny getaway.
This is just how they choose to define and market it. In reality we know that the sun is a very deadly place, and you would die a horrible death before you get even remotely close.
Your skill in Analogycraft has increased by 1.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I don' t think I will ever understand the arguement that a quest (GOOD GOLLY MOLLY something to read and enjoy in a game) makes sadbox people so angry. Is it the direction, is being unable to be told what to do (no matter how little) really that big a problem for the average sb player?
Just because a game has a story in no way can it not be a sandbox. This whole thread for me pretty much sums up why no-one wants to finance a AAA sandbox, you're all a bunch of whiny gits (and that's putting it politely) and if you actually took out everything everyone here is purporting to be 'themepark' you'd have no game at all.
What you would have is a big community 3D modelling project. That's called 2nd Life..
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
The games is discribed by it's own devs as a combination of WOW and UO,that's tells you that it is both sandbox and themepark.
I am looking forward to AA and GW2 is a filler for me so i don't hate AA but i'm just saying that it's a mixture of both.
The way the dev team describe and market their game doesn’t necessarily define what type of game it actually is.
Let’s say hypothetically NASA somehow claim ownership of the sun. Now, they have all gone completely insane, and they decide to start offering space trips to the sun, branding it as a nice, warm n’ sunny getaway.
This is just how they choose to define and market it. In reality we know that the sun is a very deadly place, and you would die a horrible death before you get even remotely close.
The feature speak for themselves,AA has themepark features and Sandbox.It has instances and normal quests givers like any other themepark mmo.
The difference between a sandbox and a theme park MMO is related to choice, the nature of those choices, and the limitations placed on those choices
Games like Wurm Online,A tale In The Desert and Xsyon are sandbox games.
No, ArcheAge doesn't have instances like any other themepark MMO.
In Themepark MMOs like WOW, RIFT, GW2 and SWTOR, everything is instanced.
Not in ArcheAge, they closed the 2 instanced dungeons in the last CBT4, so again, NO instances, the game currently doesn't have any kind of instancing, and no loading screens.
By your definition of a sandbox MMO, UO, EvE and SWG aren't sandboxes.
This is getting ridiculous, ArcheAge is a sandbox MMO with quests, that's it, quests, it's not a themebox, a sandpark, it's a sandbox, sandboxes can have quests.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
ArcheAge is a hybrid mmorpg and the developers obviously played Darkfall and realized what needs to be changed to make their game successful, i.e. a Sandpark.
Comments
Its a sandbox, saying otherwise is just ridiculous.
Sandbox games can have quests, UO had quests.
Sandbox games can have instances.
stop trying to redefine something that already HAS a definition. Just because you think you are some sort of magical defining machine that can magically redefine things as they see fit.
Wikipedia has "Non linear game play" and "Open world" as both "Sand box"
Guess what?
ArcheAge is both Non linear, and open world.
It is kinda both good and bad. When a guild controls a certain percentage of the game and more or less own it the game gets really boring fast.That is both for the guild who suddenly have no opposition and the rest of the server that can´t do Jack S*** (and Jack left the building) without the approval of the dominating guild.
It is kinda like what EA and Activision does for computer games...
While some smuggling and resistance fighting still can be fun most of it gets boring. That means you at that point needs a reset unless you have some mechanics that wont allow a guild to own most of the server.
All the points up to being the dominating guild is fun though but after that it is like playing after you already won, not fun anymore.
Which leaves the dominating guild ripe for a hostile take over, I mean wouldn't that be more fun anyway?
heh heh
First you didnt even give a definition lol. You only mentioned themepark features and sandbox features. How is that a definition of sandbox or themepark? Your definition was like ' sandpark MMO's are mostly sandparkish and themepark MMO's are mostly themeparkish' LOL
Then you clearly dont see that you were discussing with others what a sandbox MMO entails and then trying to put Archage into your personal view. I say personal, because as many (like in other discussions) other posters were not agreeing with you about the definition. If you cant agree on the definition (Im getting a little tired of it now), then you are not ready to put MMO's into categories.
If you refuse to see that there is no consensus in the first place, then imo you are simply not able to discuss this.
As for my definition. I keep it simple by looking whether progression is lineair or if there are also alternative progression paths. (no sandbox schmandbox). Keep in mind that this doesnt say anything about whether there are quests or classes. If you start thinking in those terms, you only think in restrictive terms and you are caught into thinking inside the box. Apart from that, it is my personal observation and Im not interested in convincing others, because I do realise that it is a pure arbitrary definition that caters to my MMO preference.
This is the problem with the whole sandbox discussion. It is done by evangelists that molded the definition according to their preference. So in other people's eyes it just looks arbitrary.
Amen brother.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Please! somebody post a video of an instanced raid! what about some instanced questing?
I would also love to see a video of a WOW clone crafting, useless and boring.
Or a video of a boss dropping a bind on equip weapon in an instanced dungeon?
I mean ArcheAge is a themepark with some sandbox elements, im sure you guys are going to be able to findd at least 1 of the things i asked....
Remember... AA doesn't have an NDA, so you are free to search anything you want!"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
The part I have highlighted in red is clearly a defintion.
AA is clearly a hybrid sandpark.
hmm, does it have levels, yes, does it have quests, omg.. i guess thats a themepark then..
the answer is pretty simple, when you get down to it.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... I hope so.
lol, another thread derailed by the great sandpark debate.
Ok, ignoring my response by cutting it out is lame. So I pasted it back in in blue
Then you just repeat your 'themeparks are themeparkish and sandboxes are sandboxish' noise. That is not defining a category. Not without explaining what themepark or sandbox features are. Saying ' because it is just a sandpark' holds as much value as your 'definition'.
AA is clearly (based on that 'definition' ?) a hybrid sandpark because sandparks have about 50/50 sandboxish and themeparkish features? LOL
I have to go to work now, but Im going with a smile, so thank you
im going to flood the entire lands and build a homeboat to live there.
ArcheAge has two instanced dungeon as it stands now,they were both closed for CBT4,they are just cave entrances now instead of portals.One instanced is on the Nuian continent and the other on the Hariharan continent.
Now, before you blow your bubble and think everyone is against AA,they are not,many of us are looking forward to the game.
Their are many MMO that don't share the WOW crafting boring system,that does not make them sandbox,so what has WOW crafting got to do with this convo?
Dropping a bind on equip is the same,what has it got to do with a game being sandbox?
Fact, AA has a quest system that you see in standard themepark MMOs,arrow or marker over the head questing.It also has Rift invasion type questing that you see in RIFT.
AA also has overland open world bosses like you see in many themepark MMOs.
Now, let's take a look at what AA offers that many or most MMO do not.
Open world housing but you can't build a house anywhere you like but it's open world and non instanced.
Vanguard has the same system,non instanced and open world housing,everything you see in the house,from wallpaper to bricks to mortar to carpet and paint is player made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5lXH4PIxww&feature=BFa&list=PLE4050CD1E38000BA&lf=plcp&context=C3739176FDOEgsToPDskLB_8SMvV-FtjG93KD191Pn
AA has ships that are totally player made,everything you see on a ship is made by the players,it's a great feature.
Vanguard has ships of all shapes and seizes which are all player made,everything you see on a ship is made by the player but unlike AA they are aonly used for sailing.
AA system is far better than Vanguards,you can PVP with ships and live the life of a pirate,both Vanguards system and AA are sandbox systems and would both fit right into a sandbox game.
AA has a vast world but also has instances,only two at the moment but it has them,this is fact.
Vanguard has NO instances at all,every single dungeon whether in doors or outside in non instance and in the open world.It also has many overland bosses in the open world.
Vanguard has a vast open world ,everywhere i look i can go.
AA has a skill based quests system that is NOT like darkfalls in the sence that it's tab targetting just like many themepark MMO today.The system is open though and you can do what you want,it's a great mixture of themepark and sandbox features roll into one.
AA has gliders,which are a great feature but that does is not a sandbox feature,it's basicly flying mounts but instead of a dragon or bird you can use gliders.
Vanguard has many flying mounts that are fully controllable in the open world,i can go anywhere.I can fly from one continent to the other,i can cross every mountain,nothing is out of bounds.
AA has a robust crafting system that is not your boring WOW clone.
Vanguard has a deep and rewarding crafting system that is a whole other game in it's self.It has it's own quests and armour with crafting stats and it's would take you just as long to level it up as it does adventuring.You could actually play the game as a crafter and not an killer.
Vanguard also has a diplomacy system that is another whole game in itself and would take you just as long to level as adventuring.It has it;'s own quests and armour and mounts.
Vanguard did have FFA pvp with player looting,no safe areas and no battleground because it has no instances.It had GvG and PvP in a vast open non instanced world.
Nope it didn't have a system like AA which is great but it had it and all in a PVE world with no instabnces.
Do you see where i am going with this,if AA is a sandbox game then Vanguard is a sandbox game and sorry to burst your bubble but Vanguard is not a true sandbox game just like AA is not a true sandbox game.
Both have some very nice sandbox feature,especially AA but they are hybrids.
In order to be able to declare war and participate in a siege you must obtain a special drop from the raid boss on the third continent. Sieges only take place on the weekends and last for two hours. You can only have one attacking and one defending expeditionary force (guilds). Each side can currently have only 50 players participating (there are some rumors that if things go well that they will boost it to at least 100 vs. 100). If you're not signed up for the siege or if the player limit goes above the allotted amount you will simply be teleported back to the nearest resurrection shrine if you try to enter the siege area. (these are the rules/limitations in current CBT, but might change somewhat)
-some might call it carebear, but i call it equity as we all know how giant guilds and alliances can ruin the game for others, this way more than few select zerg-guild will have an equal chance of gaining, owning and holding areas on the 3rd continent.
Thus eliminating faceroll zerg-guilds, 4am ninjacapping etc.
Just to chime in on the whole sandbox-themepark thing: as far as I am aware a sandbox MMORPG offers more freedom, and more ways to play, over a typical MMORPG. Going by this, having themepark features actually makes ArcheAge more of a sandbox game than it would be without.
As long as the themepark features do not detract from the sandbox ones, the game is a sandbox, and technically not a hybrid. If they do detract however, then it is indeed a hybrid. Do they detract? I really have no idea…
Maybe my definition is incorrect though… I have been curious about this for a while: is there an “official” definition of what a sandbox MMORPG really is? Different people attach different meanings to the genre; what is the most commonly accepted concept?
Pretty sure I am right though; it’s all about freedom… What features does ArcheAge have that make it any less of a sandbox? Surely quests don’t count, so what is it?
You are right, but it seems that saying "X is a sandpark because it has quests" is the only argument they have.
Let's call things for what they really are, ArcheAge is a sandbox MMO, it's not a hybrid, we haven't seen an MMO with so many features since Ultima Online.
By the definition of some people, UO is not a sandbox, EvE is a hybrid, etc etc etc.
Nonsense, Lineage 2 is a themepark with sandbox elements, ArcheAge is a fully open world sandbox with no instancing, it can't get more sandbox than that."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Trolls are trolls and should be treated as such.
I personally think sandboxes are such as EVE, SWG (rip), Darkfall, MO, UO etc, where you can make a lasting mark on the map/world, build cities/keeps/spacestations, plant stuff, harvest stuff, have open wolrd pvp (not necessarily FFA) etc. (you all know features im talking about)
Having tab-targeting or quests or both doesn't make it any less sandbox, to me, it makes it even MORE of a sanbox, because you're given not only the sanbox stuff, but also some pre-scripted stuff, so you can freely choose wether to do this or that. The more options/choices given to the player, the merrier.
Some fanboys and elitists just go beyond reason to determine what is which and what.
The games is discribed by it's own devs as a combination of WOW and UO,that's tells you that it is both sandbox and themepark.
I am looking forward to AA and GW2 is a filler for me so i don't hate AA but i'm just saying that it's a mixture of both.
The way the dev team describe and market their game doesn’t necessarily define what type of game it actually is.
Let’s say hypothetically NASA somehow claim ownership of the sun. Now, they have all gone completely insane, and they decide to start offering space trips to the sun, branding it as a nice, warm n’ sunny getaway.
This is just how they choose to define and market it. In reality we know that the sun is a very deadly place, and you would die a horrible death before you get even remotely close.
Your skill in Analogycraft has increased by 1.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I don' t think I will ever understand the arguement that a quest (GOOD GOLLY MOLLY something to read and enjoy in a game) makes sadbox people so angry. Is it the direction, is being unable to be told what to do (no matter how little) really that big a problem for the average sb player?
Just because a game has a story in no way can it not be a sandbox. This whole thread for me pretty much sums up why no-one wants to finance a AAA sandbox, you're all a bunch of whiny gits (and that's putting it politely) and if you actually took out everything everyone here is purporting to be 'themepark' you'd have no game at all.
What you would have is a big community 3D modelling project. That's called 2nd Life..
The feature speak for themselves,AA has themepark features and Sandbox.It has instances and normal quests givers like any other themepark mmo.
The difference between a sandbox and a theme park MMO is related to choice, the nature of those choices, and the limitations placed on those choices
Games like Wurm Online,A tale In The Desert and Xsyon are sandbox games.
No, ArcheAge doesn't have instances like any other themepark MMO.
In Themepark MMOs like WOW, RIFT, GW2 and SWTOR, everything is instanced.
Not in ArcheAge, they closed the 2 instanced dungeons in the last CBT4, so again, NO instances, the game currently doesn't have any kind of instancing, and no loading screens.
By your definition of a sandbox MMO, UO, EvE and SWG aren't sandboxes.
This is getting ridiculous, ArcheAge is a sandbox MMO with quests, that's it, quests, it's not a themebox, a sandpark, it's a sandbox, sandboxes can have quests."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu