They said over 2 million sell through. That means bought by a customer.
They said 2m sold and 1.7 activated, which would leave 300k potentially on the shelves although some could be just sitting in people's homes as unwanted gifts maybe.
No. That's not what was said at all. In fact the haters were using this as an example of how 'terrible' the game is. It was 2m sold, with 1.7 ACTIVE subs at the time of the financial report. What this meant is that 300k+ had not renewed their subs.
Also, more on topic. No MMO developer is ever going to pull an NGE-style revamp ever again. The industry learned its collective lesson from the SOE debacle.
100% of those accounts were 10-(or fewer) days into a 30-day subscription. NOBODY could be striken off the roles. All they, effectively, told you was 1.7 million of 1.75 million in sales had activated their accounts and the timer had started. That's it. Nothing else.
That was one of the most brilliant lying by deception things I've seen the BioTards do in all their lies. It was brilliant. An accountant, like myself, immediately saw what they did and why they did it.
But Joe Six-Pack. Not a chance. They ran with it like they were told something worthwhile as it stroked thier confirmation bias.
Making it even more fun was how BioWare also conflated the 12/31/2011 subscriptions withthe 01/31/2012 sales. They were quite proud of 2 million sales. And 1.7 million subs. Measured at a month apart, with one number (subs) being completely meaningless, yet combined to give a false impression of only 15% losses...
Dang clever. But I'm not Joe Six Pack. And I didn't get an MS in Accountancy at one of the best accounting programs in the United States and sepnd over twenty years as a CPA to let some corporate hack that couldn't make in my major pull the wool over my eyes.
So they may have got you... But they didn't get me. And you'll note they didn't tell you the January 31st 2012 subs. They have the numbers. They don't tell you. I don't wonder why because if they were good, they'd be bragging. They brag at every little piece of stupid news (like the 4-6 hous of playing SWTOR which is the avearge session time MMO players play when they play, which is normal, not special) and hide all the bad.
I never bought ToR and I can say it without bragging about my degrees
I would definately say yes if I had the confidence that Bioware is able to pull this off. But they cant even create a decent User Interface, so I rather see them stick to what they know. Which is storytelling through lineair paths.
Anyway, it wont happen if only because their devs are convinced that the WoW model is the way to go.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Who cares about sub numbers? It doesnt affect anyone but the producers. Sub numbers may determine game strength, and maybe a phurchase thought if you are trendy, but, by no means, does it have any affect on you...
Yes I am subbed, not for much longer. Game is too themepark, even more so than wow. Opening it like swg or ac would be great. Not possible though.
I would definately say yes if I had the confidence that Bioware is able to pull this off. But they cant even create a decent User Interface, so I rather see them stick to what they know. Which is storytelling through lineair paths.
Anyway, it wont happen if only because their devs are convinced that the WoW model is the way to go.
QFMFT
To answer OP: As a former SWG Vet I would not wish what $ony did to SWG on ANY MMO.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
lol all i gotta say lol a game sells 2 mil copies and still has over 1 mil subs and you think its time to abandon ship. Thats just lol.
The problem with SWTOR it was known since 2008, and in that time attracted loads of people. Even people living on another planet / under a rock all that time, would have gotten to know about it! By the time it got released you had 2 million people interested.
When it came to SWG it got released fast. I heard about it, and then the next time I checked on it, it was already released, and got into the game 1 month late, and missed the Beta. Also they did not ship to the EU until October. The population grew as the game grew. SWG started off small and more people came, yet SWTOR virtually everybody played from the start, and now mostly leaving than new people joining.
Practically everybody who was interested in SWTOR now has gotten and played it, and got to 50 fast, and have little to do, as Bioware did not expect people to get to 50 that fast from the seems to it, and so unprepared for the lacking product at launch. Now there is not many more people left to sell the game to.
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
If you want reality then you should start by accepting factual information, SWG was commercially not as successful to WoW.
'A game on rails is never half bad it's all bad' - by this logic Planescape Torment is a bad game. ROFL.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This post reminded me to cancel my subscription. Ty!
I unsubbed yesterday myself after looking at a Swtor ad.
It's not even that the game was so bad (except for the Pvp aspect). It's just that we've already seen and played through all that: static world(s), "kill-x" quests, purple gear grinding, useless crafting (even if the mechanic itself was indeed innovative) and so on. After a while the storyline thing fell short of its novelty and I felt disconnected from the game and its background. The fact that I was killing droids instead of orcs was beginning to fade with each passing day.
It wasn't for Bioware to invent the wheel but I suppose that a lot of us were just asking for a bit of "evolution". Just that.
SWG sucked Pre-CU/NGE and Post NGE Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit. NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
If you want reality then you should start by accepting factual information, SWG was commercially not as successful to WoW.
'A game on rails is never half bad it's all bad' - by this logic Planescape Torment is a bad game. ROFL.
In your world "SWG was not a bad game at all" = a claim that SWG was as commercially successful as WoW
I am sorry SWTOR was crappily implemented, I hope you get better soon.
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
If you want reality then you should start by accepting factual information, SWG was commercially not as successful to WoW.
'A game on rails is never half bad it's all bad' - by this logic Planescape Torment is a bad game. ROFL.
And if YOU want reality then you should start by accepting that even after the NGE SWG was a better game than SWTOR will EVER be - regardless of whether it was financially successful or not.
BW and EA threw millions on SWTOR and produced a horribly shallow game which looks and plays like a bad 2004 release - and this is why many of us who bought the hype and the game - are pissed.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Simply, Sony/LA thought their product was too complex and so dumbed it down with the NGE. Will EA decide the WoW clonething isn't working and perform a reverse NGE to sandbox things up.
Will SWG fans explode with irony.
Unfortunately they can't 'un-NGE' SWTOR because that would mean opening up and enlarging the landscapes.
Simply, Sony/LA thought their product was too complex and so dumbed it down with the NGE. Will EA decide the WoW clonething isn't working and perform a reverse NGE to sandbox things up.
lol I was calling for this a week into playing it. I was thinking...we need a NGE to be what pre-NGE star wars was!
Then of course everyone is like (this game is perfect/everything I want), but hey, to each their own.
Either you never played pre-NGE SWG or you have a short memory.
Half the classes were broken, not a bit buggy or unbalanced, they were simply broken to the point of being barely playable and there were so many problems with the game, bugs, broken content etc it was truly horrendous. The truth is people loved SWG DESPITE it's bugs and problems...which were numberous.
If they release pre-NGE SWG today in the same state it was back then it'd be a laughing stock.
I loved SWG, don't get me wrong, but this illusion it was perfection is utter garbage.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
lol I was calling for this a week into playing it. I was thinking...we need a NGE to be what pre-NGE star wars was!
Then of course everyone is like (this game is perfect/everything I want), but hey, to each their own.
Either you never played pre-NGE SWG or you have a short memory.
Half the classes were broken, not a bit buggy or unbalanced, they were simply broken to the point of being barely playable and there were so many problems with the game, bugs, broken content etc it was truly horrendous. The truth is people loved SWG DESPITE it's bugs and problems...which were numberous.
If they release pre-NGE SWG today in the same state it was back then it'd be a laughing stock.
I loved SWG, don't get me wrong, but this illusion it was perfection is utter garbage.
I agree with you totally. Pre-NGE was a hot mess in regards to bugs and being really grindy. I would love to take aspects of Pre-CU and NGE and combine them for the ultimate mmo.
Not to rain on anyones parade here, but this thread quickly degenerated into another fiscal debate which is completely not needed, we have too many of those already.
I would say a "reverse" NGE would be impossible. Removing features and melting down processes into something simpler is a lot easier than creating complexity. That said I do hope one thing good comes from this. If the game tanks (which nobody knows if it will or not YET so no need to speculate) let it be a lesson to developers that we want something different. Thats all that really needs to be said about TOR at this point.
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
It is subjective obviously, but I always thought SWG was a terrible game... and I even like sandboxes. I played the crap out of Ultima Online for example. SWG was just always sub-par in my opinion. Their declining sub numbers pre-CU and NGE indicate that the majority of gamers agreed with me.
Not to rain on anyones parade here, but this thread quickly degenerated into another fiscal debate which is completely not needed, we have too many of those already.
I would say a "reverse" NGE would be impossible. Removing features and melting down processes into something simpler is a lot easier than creating complexity. That said I do hope one thing good comes from this. If the game tanks (which nobody knows if it will or not YET so no need to speculate) let it be a lesson to developers that we want something different. Thats all that really needs to be said about TOR at this point.
110% this!
Everyone just like bitching but nothing is going to change until WE stop buying the crap.
lol I was calling for this a week into playing it. I was thinking...we need a NGE to be what pre-NGE star wars was!
Then of course everyone is like (this game is perfect/everything I want), but hey, to each their own.
Either you never played pre-NGE SWG or you have a short memory.
Half the classes were broken, not a bit buggy or unbalanced, they were simply broken to the point of being barely playable and there were so many problems with the game, bugs, broken content etc it was truly horrendous. The truth is people loved SWG DESPITE it's bugs and problems...which were numberous.
If they release pre-NGE SWG today in the same state it was back then it'd be a laughing stock.
I loved SWG, don't get me wrong, but this illusion it was perfection is utter garbage.
The only real laughing stock is the MMORPG industry and the products they're producing at the moment in my opinion.
But thats not entirely developers fault either. The only reason you found pre-NGE SWG to be such a terrible mess is because you looked at it as a GAME. As a game I completely agree technically it just didnt function as it should. But I always thought MMORPG's were supposed to be more than games, hence why we play them over single player titles. These creations are meant to be 90% about the world, immersion, community and interaction, and 10% a game, and SWG had those former qualities in spades. We are supposed to EXIST in that world while we are there, there is suppose to be a sense of awe that generally only first time MMORPG players feel, and to be honest I doubt even MMO virgins can feel that with games these days. Because there is no sense of mystery, they are bereft of any notion of the qualities that were supposed to be the selling point of online communties. Its 90% about game mechanics and 10% about item shop, its a fucking travesty.
If SWG would be a laughing stock today with this mainstream trash the public is subjected to without any sort of reasonable alternative, I'd be perky fine with being the only one not laughing.
I dont think anyone who would put SWG on such a high pedestal would even dream of calling it perfect. In fact perfection never entered into the equation. Art doesnt have to be.
There's no need whatsoever for BW to add complexity to the game. Adding THINGS TO DO, however, is essential. Non-combat activities are pretty bare bones at the moment, as like in many MMO's at launch.
Comments
I never bought ToR and I can say it without bragging about my degrees
I would definately say yes if I had the confidence that Bioware is able to pull this off. But they cant even create a decent User Interface, so I rather see them stick to what they know. Which is storytelling through lineair paths.
Anyway, it wont happen if only because their devs are convinced that the WoW model is the way to go.
A reverse NGE?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Yes I am subbed, not for much longer. Game is too themepark, even more so than wow. Opening it like swg or ac would be great. Not possible though.
Currently playing Real Life..
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For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
QFMFT
To answer OP: As a former SWG Vet I would not wish what $ony did to SWG on ANY MMO.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
An NGE - to take a complex game and dumb it down to try and increase sales
A reverse NGE - to take a dumb game and add complexity to try to increase salesSWG sucked Pre-CU/NGE and Post NGE
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
The problem with SWTOR it was known since 2008, and in that time attracted loads of people. Even people living on another planet / under a rock all that time, would have gotten to know about it! By the time it got released you had 2 million people interested.
When it came to SWG it got released fast. I heard about it, and then the next time I checked on it, it was already released, and got into the game 1 month late, and missed the Beta. Also they did not ship to the EU until October. The population grew as the game grew. SWG started off small and more people came, yet SWTOR virtually everybody played from the start, and now mostly leaving than new people joining.
Practically everybody who was interested in SWTOR now has gotten and played it, and got to 50 fast, and have little to do, as Bioware did not expect people to get to 50 that fast from the seems to it, and so unprepared for the lacking product at launch. Now there is not many more people left to sell the game to.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Unfourtunately, this.
My gaming blog
their numbers for february are not posted so no you cannot claim that because no one knows. kthxbye
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
If you want reality then you should start by accepting factual information, SWG was commercially not as successful to WoW.
'A game on rails is never half bad it's all bad' - by this logic Planescape Torment is a bad game. ROFL.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I unsubbed yesterday myself after looking at a Swtor ad.
It's not even that the game was so bad (except for the Pvp aspect). It's just that we've already seen and played through all that: static world(s), "kill-x" quests, purple gear grinding, useless crafting (even if the mechanic itself was indeed innovative) and so on. After a while the storyline thing fell short of its novelty and I felt disconnected from the game and its background. The fact that I was killing droids instead of orcs was beginning to fade with each passing day.
It wasn't for Bioware to invent the wheel but I suppose that a lot of us were just asking for a bit of "evolution". Just that.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
If you want reality then you should start by accepting factual information, SWG was commercially not as successful to WoW.
'A game on rails is never half bad it's all bad' - by this logic Planescape Torment is a bad game. ROFL.
In your world "SWG was not a bad game at all" = a claim that SWG was as commercially successful as WoW
I am sorry SWTOR was crappily implemented, I hope you get better soon.And if YOU want reality then you should start by accepting that even after the NGE SWG was a better game than SWTOR will EVER be - regardless of whether it was financially successful or not.
BW and EA threw millions on SWTOR and produced a horribly shallow game which looks and plays like a bad 2004 release - and this is why many of us who bought the hype and the game - are pissed.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Unfortunately they can't 'un-NGE' SWTOR because that would mean opening up and enlarging the landscapes.
heresy! lol
Thats the unfortunate part of this internet--everyone can say what they want. Some people are just tools.
Either you never played pre-NGE SWG or you have a short memory.
Half the classes were broken, not a bit buggy or unbalanced, they were simply broken to the point of being barely playable and there were so many problems with the game, bugs, broken content etc it was truly horrendous. The truth is people loved SWG DESPITE it's bugs and problems...which were numberous.
If they release pre-NGE SWG today in the same state it was back then it'd be a laughing stock.
I loved SWG, don't get me wrong, but this illusion it was perfection is utter garbage.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I agree with you totally. Pre-NGE was a hot mess in regards to bugs and being really grindy. I would love to take aspects of Pre-CU and NGE and combine them for the ultimate mmo.
Not to rain on anyones parade here, but this thread quickly degenerated into another fiscal debate which is completely not needed, we have too many of those already.
I would say a "reverse" NGE would be impossible. Removing features and melting down processes into something simpler is a lot easier than creating complexity. That said I do hope one thing good comes from this. If the game tanks (which nobody knows if it will or not YET so no need to speculate) let it be a lesson to developers that we want something different. Thats all that really needs to be said about TOR at this point.
It is subjective obviously, but I always thought SWG was a terrible game... and I even like sandboxes. I played the crap out of Ultima Online for example. SWG was just always sub-par in my opinion. Their declining sub numbers pre-CU and NGE indicate that the majority of gamers agreed with me.
110% this!
Everyone just like bitching but nothing is going to change until WE stop buying the crap.
The only real laughing stock is the MMORPG industry and the products they're producing at the moment in my opinion.
But thats not entirely developers fault either. The only reason you found pre-NGE SWG to be such a terrible mess is because you looked at it as a GAME. As a game I completely agree technically it just didnt function as it should. But I always thought MMORPG's were supposed to be more than games, hence why we play them over single player titles. These creations are meant to be 90% about the world, immersion, community and interaction, and 10% a game, and SWG had those former qualities in spades. We are supposed to EXIST in that world while we are there, there is suppose to be a sense of awe that generally only first time MMORPG players feel, and to be honest I doubt even MMO virgins can feel that with games these days. Because there is no sense of mystery, they are bereft of any notion of the qualities that were supposed to be the selling point of online communties. Its 90% about game mechanics and 10% about item shop, its a fucking travesty.
If SWG would be a laughing stock today with this mainstream trash the public is subjected to without any sort of reasonable alternative, I'd be perky fine with being the only one not laughing.
I dont think anyone who would put SWG on such a high pedestal would even dream of calling it perfect. In fact perfection never entered into the equation. Art doesnt have to be.
There's no need whatsoever for BW to add complexity to the game. Adding THINGS TO DO, however, is essential. Non-combat activities are pretty bare bones at the moment, as like in many MMO's at launch.