If they actually deliver on every single promise they made for their savior patch 1.2 there's still no guarantee that the people they made angry will actually come back to their game. and offering a title and a mount ain't going to cut it. STO tried that.
Say what you will about indivitual patches like 1.1.1 (an example) and what not, Bioware did do a good job throwing in 1.1 save for the Ilum thing that was resolved 20 hours later.
Personally i think that if they adopt a B2P model, focus on getting out content like LOTRO. Put out some articles talking about how they are planning on releaseing expansions left right and center, from there bring in a premium sub where you get all expansions free if you are subbed while the rest have to buy all of their expansions seperate. this would build players, after you get enough expanisons out people will start seeing the benefit of the sub, New players in general will see this as a god send.
+1, I initially voted on less than 500k players but that was before considering TOR moving to a freemium-type payment option. If that happens then I think they'd easily be able to keep far more than that. With a cash shop full of DLC quest/plot packs and unstatted vanity gear that you can plug your stat augments into and this game could make a lot more profit. We've already seen how EA/Bioware loves their DLC.
If they actually deliver on every single promise they made for their savior patch 1.2 there's still no guarantee that the people they made angry will actually come back to their game. and offering a title and a mount ain't going to cut it. STO tried that.
Say what you will about indivitual patches like 1.1.1 (an example) and what not, Bioware did do a good job throwing in 1.1 save for the Ilum thing that was resolved 20 hours later.
This is what I have so far:
New Gear sets
Match to Chest
Legacy System
Guild Banks
Broader UI Customization
Remove bag/quest reward system.
Direct purchase of Gear/Commendations.
14 new objective-based medals in WZ.
Vote to kick Idlers.
Pre-Season rankings.
New "Neutral" Warzone
New Graphics Options
New Flash Point "The Lost Island (Kaon pt. 2)"
New Planet "Denova"
New Operation on "Denova"
More Crafting BOE Items
Removable Armor/Barrels from epic Items
More social gear
Target of Target function
More Balancing Changes
Aint gonna believe it till i see it, then maybe i resub for another month;)
Nevertheless i think its going to be around 500k subs - 'cause of aggressive marketing and till GW2 or another BIG TITLE come out;)
btw
GW2 wont be a filler till AA cause its B2P and I for instance will play it casually 'cause there's no need to rush trough your "paid month" and because of that you can drop in drop out every time you want to
Personally i think that if they adopt a B2P model, focus on getting out content like LOTRO. Put out some articles talking about how they are planning on releaseing expansions left right and center, from there bring in a premium sub where you get all expansions free if you are subbed while the rest have to buy all of their expansions seperate. this would build players, after you get enough expanisons out people will start seeing the benefit of the sub, New players in general will see this as a god send.
let me stop you right there. Content like LOTRO is the problem not the solution i left LOTRO because of their terrible RoI expansion that was severely lacking. If i want to see a hobbit hopping around with subtitles above his head i would watch a foreign film.
No they need to use the Rift strategy of putting out content patches. End of story. Nothing else is acceptable especially with LA money floating around there in the background.
And they need to start with making sure that the savior patch actually puts in everything that a standard themepark mmo has in the ui and features because if they don't they will be hurting more as more people leave.
Oh don't get me wrong i agree with you. What your saying has to come first, im very skepical (im sure you noticed yesterday) about SWTORs chances of coming out next set of game releases with all its Pop intact. So they need something to draw them back in, Aswell as recovering their lost fanbase. most people dont remember but when games go F2P these is a massive stream of "Tried it again" threads that sing its praises.
Overall
Stablize game and build it to what their community wants 1-4 months
IF new game releases ravages their pop look into the B2P model, with steady Expansions. - ongoing
Introduce Premium sub that will allow you to access all content without purchase. - Either right at start of B2P or 2 expansions in. (right at start will get people who are already subbed to stay subbed because of content, Starting 2 expansions in will focus on new players)
there are many games that CANNOT do this model. their design wouldnt allow it. SWTOR though can, the feel, Design, and story could easily support this.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
i fully admit i was like that, the game was simply amazing in the original builds. then they kept stupifying the game to the point where i lost interest. now i really have no interest in the game, i would love to see it get turned around and working well again but really. Fool me once....
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I wouldn't start laughing yet.
I doubt it has 1.7 million subs at this point, those are Dec/Jan numbers not the latest. I am sure EA has some land south of Florida to sell ya
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I wouldn't start laughing yet.
Right and the Earth is flat.
So in other words you're going to laugh even though its been two months and SWTOR is the second largest westren MMO? Could lose a million subs tommorow and still be the second most subbed to westren MMo
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I wouldn't start laughing yet.
Right and the Earth is flat.
So in other words you're going to laugh even though its been two months and SWTOR is the second largest westren MMO?
Yep...because I predicted this game would go the way of War, Rift, Aion, LoTR's and all the rest, and you know what...I was right again, and it is. In fact this game has lost more subs faster than Warhammer even did.
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I wouldn't start laughing yet.
Right and the Earth is flat.
So in other words you're going to laugh even though its been two months and SWTOR is the second largest westren MMO? Could lose a million subs tommorow and still be the second most subbed to westren MMo
What happens if something else takes it over though. are you suddenly gonna narrow down the demographic. Yeah your the #1 Sci Fi PvE MMO. Against Who.
GW2 is watching every step they take and could very well become my first exception to the "All MMOs faceplant on release" Theory.
TSW wont, alot of people ARE going to scream about it failing because they don't have a million Subs. well we dont want that many. TSW is looking to be a sleeper hit, its not looking to take the next crown. TSW is a game for the Hardcore gamer where as the Casual will be completely turned off of it.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
and yes this game is losing subs faster then any MMO I can remember
You havn't played AOC or WAR. Or maybe you're just lying.
They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over and basic mmo combat failed.
My personal opinion is <500k just because I can't see it being suistainable in long-term simply for the fact that it just focuses too much on story while not giving attention to parts that give it the definition of MMOrpg. I am sure pvp will improve and more content will be added during the coming months but severe damage has already been done to the title in its initial stage. On top of it all, we still see generic gameplay mechanics and the game reportedly missing basic social functions.
Now if you take into account probably by far the biggest factor, where we have titles like GW2, Tera and The Secret World maybe even Archeage?) being out within the next year, with each offering something unique to the genre, even if SWTOR gets an overhaul it really needs to compete, it will just be too late by that time. I doubt even expansions will save the game.
They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over and basic mmo combat failed.
2 million copies sold with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?
Where in the hell where all you people when RIFT was losing subs?
...with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?
Wtf? Someone is actually still running around touting this? Are you insane bro or simply this blinded?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
My personal opinion is <500k just because I can't see it being suistainable in long-term simply for the fact that it just focuses too much on story while not giving attention to parts that give it the definition of MMOrpg. I am sure pvp will improve and more content will be added during the coming months but severe damage has already been done to the title in its initial stage. On top of it all, we still see generic gameplay mechanics and the game reportedly missing basic social functions.
Now if you take into account probably by far the biggest factor, where we have titles like GW2, Tera and The Secret World maybe even Archeage?) being out within the next year, with each offering something unique to the genre, even if SWTOR gets an overhaul it really needs to compete, it will just be too late by that time. I doubt even expansions will save the game.
I am just being a realist.
My counter argument to this is that none of those games offer what is in reality on of the biggest draws for SWTOR, it being SWTOR by Bioware.
Look how poor SWG was from a subjective POV, the only things to really do in it was Crafter or space combat.
Sure they might lose all the people looking for something new (assuming they havn't already left), but how many people want an MMO by Bioware, or a Star Wars MMO?
They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over and basic mmo combat failed.
2 million copies sold with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?
Where in the hell where all you people when RIFT was losing subs?
Do you work for bioware? Please show me the 80% retention rate as of Mid Feb, facts please and not Dec/Jan numbers
Comments
Say what you will about indivitual patches like 1.1.1 (an example) and what not, Bioware did do a good job throwing in 1.1 save for the Ilum thing that was resolved 20 hours later.
This is what I have so far:
New Gear sets
Match to Chest
Legacy System
Guild Banks
Broader UI Customization
Remove bag/quest reward system.
Direct purchase of Gear/Commendations.
14 new objective-based medals in WZ.
Vote to kick Idlers.
Pre-Season rankings.
New "Neutral" Warzone
New Graphics Options
New Flash Point "The Lost Island (Kaon pt. 2)"
New Planet "Denova"
New Operation on "Denova"
More Crafting BOE Items
Removable Armor/Barrels from epic Items
More social gear
Target of Target function
More Balancing Changes
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
+1, I initially voted on less than 500k players but that was before considering TOR moving to a freemium-type payment option. If that happens then I think they'd easily be able to keep far more than that. With a cash shop full of DLC quest/plot packs and unstatted vanity gear that you can plug your stat augments into and this game could make a lot more profit. We've already seen how EA/Bioware loves their DLC.
Aint gonna believe it till i see it, then maybe i resub for another month;)
Nevertheless i think its going to be around 500k subs - 'cause of aggressive marketing and till GW2 or another BIG TITLE come out;)
btw
GW2 wont be a filler till AA cause its B2P and I for instance will play it casually 'cause there's no need to rush trough your "paid month" and because of that you can drop in drop out every time you want to
Oh don't get me wrong i agree with you. What your saying has to come first, im very skepical (im sure you noticed yesterday) about SWTORs chances of coming out next set of game releases with all its Pop intact. So they need something to draw them back in, Aswell as recovering their lost fanbase. most people dont remember but when games go F2P these is a massive stream of "Tried it again" threads that sing its praises.
Overall
Stablize game and build it to what their community wants 1-4 months
IF new game releases ravages their pop look into the B2P model, with steady Expansions. - ongoing
Introduce Premium sub that will allow you to access all content without purchase. - Either right at start of B2P or 2 expansions in. (right at start will get people who are already subbed to stay subbed because of content, Starting 2 expansions in will focus on new players)
there are many games that CANNOT do this model. their design wouldnt allow it. SWTOR though can, the feel, Design, and story could easily support this.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I remember threads about this topic before the game launched and now I am sitting back laughing because it was I and few others that said this game would be lucky to retain 400k subs and we were called trolls and haters. So many others were predicting the game would be the death of WoW and that this game would have upwards of 3mil to 6mil people playing it.
I also remember people telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and called me a troll and hater, and now some of those very people, on these boards have unsubbed and are preaching what I was saying before the game released. Too funny!
It still has 1.7 million subs and has yet to release a trial version.
I wouldn't start laughing yet.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
i fully admit i was like that, the game was simply amazing in the original builds. then they kept stupifying the game to the point where i lost interest. now i really have no interest in the game, i would love to see it get turned around and working well again but really. Fool me once....
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Right and the Earth is flat.
I doubt it has 1.7 million subs at this point, those are Dec/Jan numbers not the latest. I am sure EA has some land south of Florida to sell ya
So in other words you're going to laugh even though its been two months and SWTOR is the second largest westren MMO? Could lose a million subs tommorow and still be the second most subbed to westren MMo
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
500,000 by the end of the year and that is factoring in that GW2 and The Secret World releases this year.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Yep...because I predicted this game would go the way of War, Rift, Aion, LoTR's and all the rest, and you know what...I was right again, and it is. In fact this game has lost more subs faster than Warhammer even did.
What if they fail?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
What if they don't
and yes this game is losing subs faster then any MMO I can remember
What happens if something else takes it over though. are you suddenly gonna narrow down the demographic. Yeah your the #1 Sci Fi PvE MMO. Against Who.
GW2 is watching every step they take and could very well become my first exception to the "All MMOs faceplant on release" Theory.
TSW wont, alot of people ARE going to scream about it failing because they don't have a million Subs. well we dont want that many. TSW is looking to be a sleeper hit, its not looking to take the next crown. TSW is a game for the Hardcore gamer where as the Casual will be completely turned off of it.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
It will be a lot lower. Your welcome. Insert that statement into every single P2P mmo that ever gets released in the future from me.
You havn't played AOC or WAR. Or maybe you're just lying.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Last time i checked AoC was GAINING players.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
They said in their recent advertisment that TOR is the fastest growing mmo but soon they will be the fastest at losing subs. It is real a shame because I love Star Wars but hey this is what Bioware wanted to do. The emphasis on story, voice over and basic mmo combat failed.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
I mean at launch.
I truly wish people would stop being so damn disingenous when it came to these sort of things.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
My personal opinion is <500k just because I can't see it being suistainable in long-term simply for the fact that it just focuses too much on story while not giving attention to parts that give it the definition of MMOrpg. I am sure pvp will improve and more content will be added during the coming months but severe damage has already been done to the title in its initial stage. On top of it all, we still see generic gameplay mechanics and the game reportedly missing basic social functions.
Now if you take into account probably by far the biggest factor, where we have titles like GW2, Tera and The Secret World maybe even Archeage?) being out within the next year, with each offering something unique to the genre, even if SWTOR gets an overhaul it really needs to compete, it will just be too late by that time. I doubt even expansions will save the game.
I am just being a realist.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
2 million copies sold with an 80% retention rate two months out is a failure?
Where in the hell where all you people when RIFT was losing subs?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Wtf? Someone is actually still running around touting this? Are you insane bro or simply this blinded?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
My counter argument to this is that none of those games offer what is in reality on of the biggest draws for SWTOR, it being SWTOR by Bioware.
Look how poor SWG was from a subjective POV, the only things to really do in it was Crafter or space combat.
Sure they might lose all the people looking for something new (assuming they havn't already left), but how many people want an MMO by Bioware, or a Star Wars MMO?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Do you work for bioware? Please show me the 80% retention rate as of Mid Feb, facts please and not Dec/Jan numbers