but you can sure make a character that is much more healing oriented (mace/focus on guardian with support utlities and traits with healing breeze)
IMO healer role is still there in a way, the tank role is pretty much gone, and the dps role is merged with the tank role considering you have to be self sufficient and keep yourself alive while getting some regeneration and heals from someone who is healing/support based
Support, which includes things like healing, buffing, shields, anything that helps you or your allies
Damage, which includes all kinds of damage imaginable
Control, which is about controlling the encounter to your advantage in some way shape or form. Could be debuffs, could be damage absorption, could be knockbacks or knockdowns, could be an impassible wall
Every class in GW2 will have TOOLS that can fulfill each of these roles. Note that classes, and not really even builds, ARE a role, they just have tools to help fill a role.
Yes, it is possible to create a more "support" oriented build, but this does not make your character "support," and it definitely doesn't make you a healer, as you will still be fulfilling the other roles as well, just to a lesser extent.
For a real game example, imagine I'm a guardian using sword and shield. A typical fight might go like this:
1. We notice 4 mobs with bows, and I rush in to their aggro radius first, triggering "Zealot's defense" which blocks their ranged projectiles, allowing my groupmates to get into range without immediately getting pelted (Control).
2. As my allies move forward, I move forward with them and lay down "Symbol of Swiftness" to give us all a speed buff (Support).
3. I now decide to engage the enemy, using my "flashing blade" skill to blind and damage the nearest (Control and Damage).
4. I notice that my allies are taking a beating so I use "Hold the Line!," which grants protection and regen to my allies, while continuing the beat on my opponent with my "1" auto-attack (Support and Damage).
5. Uh-oh! While my protection is helping, it looks like my allies are still in big trouble. I frantically run over to them and use "Shield of Judgment," which knocks all the enemies back giving us a chance to gain some distance and recover. (Control)
See how that would go? There IS supporting your allies and controlling the enemy, but it is decidely NOT the holy trinity in any way shape or form.
did I say that the actualy holy trinity is still there? nope.
However you can be heavily focused on support/healing/control/dps
How does one "heavily focus" on 4 things (support + Healing + control + dps) at the same time?
I mean is like saying that if u try u can drive/cook/write a novel/answer the phone at the same time.
There are no roles, at least no the traditional sense of roles, you just go there, play and if you do it well u succed.
Switching weapons/attunments during the fights changes the role you are performing. Elementalist Scenario:
Ohh crap this boss is dealing out some mean damage to the group, "switch to water attunement to help support some heals while continuin to dps"
Ohh crap im taking crap tons of damage atm "switch to earth attunement to help mitigate damage and continue to dps"
Ohh crap tons of adds just spawn "switch to fire attunement for more AOE damage and control"
Ohh crap just one big enemey "switch to air attunement for focus fire dps with some control"
I meant one or the other or a combination of all
people are way too idealistic, gw2's system won't completely eliminate roles
Now that was a great example of how a combat encounter can go in GW2 and having seen the 1st dungeon encounter I can see how such a scenario is possible. Shame that what you've said is simply disregarded. And to Sanctum, why is it that you said there is no dedicated healer and then in your next comment you dedicate an entire role to healing?
Sanctum says:
"However you can be heavily focused on support/healing/control/dps"
I've even heard from people in the catacombs videos that someone will probobly go healing heavy (turret etc) because it does help a lot
It's the truth there's no dedicated healing but there's builds heavily focused on healing everyone and supporting
Oh yeah~ Sticking down a Healing Turret or placing some Healing Rain, every now and then, is definitely playing a Healer role.
/sarcasm
But let me guess, you were talking about this video when he was receiving MASSIVE HEALS from the Healing Rain. Funny thing is that moments after, the boss hit him for half his health and he would have died, if he didn't use his Death Shroud. Healing wouldn't have helped. ^_^
Of course this game will still have roles to some extent. Otherwise there would be no dps, healing, or damage mitigation...lol. This game is still an mmorpg built on the same foundations of EQ and WoW, meaning that it's a dungeon game. You go with groups and kill mobs. There has to be healing, damage, and damage mitigation abilities. Do you want to try a game that truly has no trinity whatsoever? Go play EVE or PotBS.
but you can sure make a character that is much more healing oriented (mace/focus on guardian with support utlities and traits with healing breeze)
IMO healer role is still there in a way, the tank role is pretty much gone, and the dps role is merged with the tank role considering you have to be self sufficient and keep yourself alive while getting some regeneration and heals from someone who is healing/support based
Support, which includes things like healing, buffing, shields, anything that helps you or your allies
Damage, which includes all kinds of damage imaginable
Control, which is about controlling the encounter to your advantage in some way shape or form. Could be debuffs, could be damage absorption, could be knockbacks or knockdowns, could be an impassible wall
Every class in GW2 will have TOOLS that can fulfill each of these roles. Note that classes, and not really even builds, ARE a role, they just have tools to help fill a role.
Yes, it is possible to create a more "support" oriented build, but this does not make your character "support," and it definitely doesn't make you a healer, as you will still be fulfilling the other roles as well, just to a lesser extent.
For a real game example, imagine I'm a guardian using sword and shield. A typical fight might go like this:
1. We notice 4 mobs with bows, and I rush in to their aggro radius first, triggering "Zealot's defense" which blocks their ranged projectiles, allowing my groupmates to get into range without immediately getting pelted (Control).
2. As my allies move forward, I move forward with them and lay down "Symbol of Swiftness" to give us all a speed buff (Support).
3. I now decide to engage the enemy, using my "flashing blade" skill to blind and damage the nearest (Control and Damage).
4. I notice that my allies are taking a beating so I use "Hold the Line!," which grants protection and regen to my allies, while continuing the beat on my opponent with my "1" auto-attack (Support and Damage).
5. Uh-oh! While my protection is helping, it looks like my allies are still in big trouble. I frantically run over to them and use "Shield of Judgment," which knocks all the enemies back giving us a chance to gain some distance and recover. (Control)
See how that would go? There IS supporting your allies and controlling the enemy, but it is decidely NOT the holy trinity in any way shape or form.
did I say that the actualy holy trinity is still there? nope.
However you can be heavily focused on support/healing/control/dps
How does one "heavily focus" on 4 things (support + Healing + control + dps) at the same time?
I mean is like saying that if u try u can drive/cook/write a novel/answer the phone at the same time.
There are no roles, at least no the traditional sense of roles, you just go there, play and if you do it well u succed.
Switching weapons/attunments during the fights changes the role you are performing. Elementalist Scenario:
Ohh crap this boss is dealing out some mean damage to the group, "switch to water attunement to help support some heals while continuin to dps"
Ohh crap im taking crap tons of damage atm "switch to earth attunement to help mitigate damage and continue to dps"
Ohh crap tons of adds just spawn "switch to fire attunement for more AOE damage and control"
Ohh crap just one big enemey "switch to air attunement for focus fire dps with some control"
So hes swaping his role, just like having no role.
Think in real life, you may be a doctor but wen facing a problem you dont act like one, you just act in order to solve the problem, using your medical knowings or not.
Now that was a great example of how a combat encounter can go in GW2 and having seen the 1st dungeon encounter I can see how such a scenario is possible. Shame that what you've said is simply disregarded. And to Sanctum, why is it that you said there is no dedicated healer and then in your next comment you dedicate an entire role to healing?
Sanctum says:
"However you can be heavily focused on support/healing/control/dps"
I've even heard from people in the catacombs videos that someone will probobly go healing heavy (turret etc) because it does help a lot
It's the truth there's no dedicated healing but there's builds heavily focused on healing everyone and supporting
Oh yeah~ Sticking down a Healing Turret or placing some Healing Rain, every now and then, is definitely playing a Healer role.
/sarcasm
But let me guess, you were talking about this video when he was receiving MASSIVE HEALS from the Healing Rain. Funny thing is that moments after, the boss hit him for half his health and he would have died, if he didn't use his Death Shroud. Healing wouldn't have helped. ^_^
Now I'm going to play the devils advocate on this one, but first of all that video doesn't tell what traits the engineer has selected so that may not even be a total representative of a healing spec'd engineers capabilities.
But what do you call an engineer whos spec'd heavy into healing abilities to the point even his bomb explosions have the secondary affect of also healing. No its not whack a mole healing ie most mmos but this players plan is to help his group by bringing multiple ways to help them regenerate health. To me this is a definition of a healer. The fact that he won't be able out heal the damage output of mobs doesn't change this. An engineer can also drop a bomb when he dodges thus just by doing normal actions ie dodging mobs he's still healing. It could be entirely feasible to build an engineer that every skill results in a heal depending on what is classified as a bomb explosion. Especially with being able to toggle between your weapon, elixir gun, and med kit.
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
Correct, if i cast a healing skill for the duration of that skill I'm playing the role of a healer. If i knockback the boss im playing the role of a tank and of course if I nuke him im playing the role of a dps. Thing is....my chosen class X can do all this. That one class. If I choose to sacrifice the effectiveness of my dps and control skills to buff my healing and support skills, that doesn't make me a healer in the holy trinity. It just makes my heal skills stronger. I can still dps and i can still "tank".
In wow when I used to play, I tanking war and a frost mage. My mage couldnt heal or tank, that made him dps. My war couldnt heal or dps, that made him a tank. Understand how its different? Roles do not equal Holy Trinity. Right now you are playing the role of a troll, that doesn't mean you can only troll.
FURTHERMORE, even if you played a hybrid like a druid. And came up with a hybrid spec, it was rarely if ever competitive in pvp or pve.
I dunno man, you seem to be grasping at straws here. I'll repeat it for you ok? Holy Trinity = DEDICATED TANK - DEDICATED HEALER - DEDICATED DPS
The real issue with Holy Trinity was having to choose certain classes in order to play together with your friends. Due to the fact that people hate that they came up with a way we can all play with whoever we want. ANNNND EVERYONE can still fill any ROLE needed.
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
[...]
In wow when I used to play, I tanking war and a frost mage. My mage couldnt heal or tank, that made him dps. My war couldnt heal or dps, that made him a tank. Understand how its different? Roles do not equal Holy Trinity. Right now you are playing the role of a troll, that doesn't mean you can only troll.
[...]
LOL... I've been itching to say that as well, but chances are I will be banned or at least receive another warning for calling ******* a ***** again.
I know that the trinity is not in GW2 by definition, but i am curious how long before people find a way to simulate the trinity when they do group content. Some players are just better at playing a tank than they are at support, and a natural direction for them to put thier built together would be what they are comfortable playing as thier role. I would almost bet that even with the trinity not being intended in GW2, that the players will eventually find a way to do it anyway.
Well if they can find a way to tank without agro or heal without healing spells, then my hats off to them.
Now I could see 4 water elementals all spamming at a Guardian spanking a single mob figure, but even then the guardians self heal will do more than the others combined.
... and the mob will probably stun/knock down the Guardian anyway and go chew up the Elementalists - because aggro works a whole lot different in GW2 than holy trinity apologists think it does
Exactly...
I really don't understand how these guys can read pages upon pages of reasons why the Trinity doesn't exist in GW2 and still cling to their belief that the trinity will be there in full force in GW2. It just...baffles the mind.
It's like they have never played a cooperative game without the holy trinity and they think it's literally impossible to not have the holy trinity.
I guess those people has only played WoW or any other mmorpg in their life, there are 1000s of game out there without the trinity and a lot harder than the games with it o.O
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
Correct, if i cast a healing skill for the duration of that skill I'm playing the role of a healer. If i knockback the boss im playing the role of a tank and of course if I nuke him im playing the role of a dps. Thing is....my chosen class X can do all this. That one class. If I choose to sacrifice the effectiveness of my dps and control skills to buff my healing and support skills, that doesn't make me a healer in the holy trinity. It just makes my heal skills stronger. I can still dps and i can still "tank".
In wow when I used to play, I tanking war and a frost mage. My mage couldnt heal or tank, that made him dps. My war couldnt heal or dps, that made him a tank. Understand how its different? Roles do not equal Holy Trinity. Right now you are playing the role of a troll, that doesn't mean you can only troll.
FURTHERMORE, even if you played a hybrid like a druid. And came up with a hybrid spec, it was rarely if ever competitive in pvp or pve.
I dunno man, you seem to be grasping at straws here. I'll repeat it for you ok? Holy Trinity = DEDICATED TANK - DEDICATED HEALER - DEDICATED DPS
The real issue with Holy Trinity was having to choose certain classes in order to play together with your friends. Due to the fact that people hate that they came up with a way we can all play with whoever we want. ANNNND EVERYONE can still fill any ROLE needed.
Hybrids died with the cataclysm, I have a druid but cannot longer be a hybrid like on the old times =( . I meant the still have all forms available at all time but I was a resto druid and with that gear my bear and cat form were completely useless.
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
I guess I can be conciddered a fanoy and I can agree that roles exist. But the thing is Anet never said that they were doing away with roles all together. Let's try to keep it into perspective. There are, however, no dedicated roles key word being DEDICATED. Anyone can fill any role at any time. Some may do it better and some may choose to allocate points to make their character fit their playstyle. What they said was they were doing away with the holy trinity and they have done so. Just because I make my war durable and tanky doesn't mean I am a tank, only that I can absorb the damage better than others that don't trait/gear the same as I do, Is this really that hard to understand?
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
I guess I can be conciddered a fanoy and I can agree that roles exist. But the thing is Anet never said that they were doing away with roles all together. Let's try to keep it into perspective. There are, however, no dedicated roles key word being DEDICATED. Anyone can fill any role at any time. Some may do it better and some may choose to allocate points to make their character fit their playstyle. What they said was they were doing away with the holy trinity and they have done so. Just because I make my war durable and tanky doesn't mean I am a tank, only that I can absorb the damage better than others that don't trait/gear the same as I do, Is this really that hard to understand?
Exactly
however people in these forums seem to think that roles are gone
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
they don't wanna say it but there is still a healer-ish role
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
Don't understand where this no trinity business is coming from. In all the videos I've seen, there has been 1 or 2 people dropping down heals, that heal other party, and 1 or 2 guys taking 85% of the damage and agro. Hows that not a trinity? You still have people designated healing, and people designated tanking. Am I missing something here?
Im going to put it like this Instead "WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A TRINITY"
Lets think outside the box here for a second? who said MMOs = the HOLY TRINITY? who came up with that?
I see no need for a Trinity.. do away with it and while we are at it lets
Cancel quests
Skipp raids
And take away Battleground
Just do awy with all this bullshit that has been done so many times before...
If GW2 gets ridd of dedicated healers GOOD FOR THEM.. MMOS sure dont need them to function..
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
well they can't swap that much
Traits/attributes
Traits don't even come into play with any of that at all.
You don't go 'ooohhh but i didn't trait this doodad to make my kick better so i just wont bother!'. No, you kick that fecker in the face because you're still a mighty son of a bitch, whether or not your kick to the face applies burning or not!
No 20% buff is going to make any spell immensely better than any other and definitely not something like 'on random hit, it may cause burning'. It's what the 'trait whiners' haven't got yet. They need to actually look at the traits
Traits are like a single spice. Sure, it could make the curry nicer, but that curry is still awesome without it, and you'd be a fool to turn it down just because it doesn't have that one spice. Apply that to the kick to the face. Sure, someone may specialise in face kicking, and as such they apply burning. But it's your kick in that moment which saves your allies' life, it doesn't matter if johnny McSize15 has a better kick than you, because his boots ain't in the right place at the right time are they?
The way everyone is arguing over this game and how it plays you would think it had launched as a finished product.
As far as what is being said about it, that can either be exactly the way it launches or nothing like the way it launches. Seen games go either way. I have also seen a game that was one way and then got changed after launch and lost a lot of people. Wait till it launches.
can't wait to "spec healing" on my water ele. two "healing" skills on long cooldowns ticking for that beastly 99HP, saving my allies from those 2K damage hits.
can't wait to "spec healing" on my water ele. two "healing" skills on long cooldowns ticking for that beastly 99HP, saving my allies from those 2K damage hits.
Considering the healing skills will heal 79hp without the traits, yeah, you're really rolling now Without those traits you wouldn't have been able to do anything! That 20hp basically makes you a dedicated healer and you may as well give up on damage! Your fireballs only do 200 instead of 240!
Yes, i am being deadly serious, that's pretty much the effect traits have. That and some extra conditions on some attacks to give them more 'flavour'
can't wait to "spec healing" on my water ele. two "healing" skills on long cooldowns ticking for that beastly 99HP, saving my allies from those 2K damage hits.
Considering the healing skills will heal 79hp without the traits, yeah, you're really rolling now Without those traits you wouldn't have been able to do anything! That 20hp basically makes you a dedicated healer and you may as well give up on damage! Your fireballs only do 200 instead of 240!
Yes, i am being deadly serious, that's pretty much the effect traits have. That and some extra conditions on some attacks to give them more 'flavour'
yes, can't ****ing wait. it's going to be so damn beautiful, i will heal the world.
can't wait to "spec healing" on my water ele. two "healing" skills on long cooldowns ticking for that beastly 99HP, saving my allies from those 2K damage hits.
Considering the healing skills will heal 79hp without the traits, yeah, you're really rolling now Without those traits you wouldn't have been able to do anything! That 20hp basically makes you a dedicated healer and you may as well give up on damage! Your fireballs only do 200 instead of 240!
Yes, i am being deadly serious, that's pretty much the effect traits have. That and some extra conditions on some attacks to give them more 'flavour'
yes, can't ****ing wait. it's going to be so damn beautiful, i will heal the world.
You can keep that damn 'healing rain' to yourself.
You may call it 'healing' but it looks mighty strange to me.
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
well they can't swap that much
Traits/attributes
Traits don't even come into play with any of that at all.
You don't go 'ooohhh but i didn't trait this doodad to make my kick better so i just wont bother!'. No, you kick that fecker in the face because you're still a mighty son of a bitch, whether or not your kick to the face applies burning or not!
No 20% buff is going to make any spell immensely better than any other and definitely not something like 'on random hit, it may cause burning'. It's what the 'trait whiners' haven't got yet. They need to actually look at the traits
Traits are like a single spice. Sure, it could make the curry nicer, but that curry is still awesome without it, and you'd be a fool to turn it down just because it doesn't have that one spice. Apply that to the kick to the face. Sure, someone may specialise in face kicking, and as such they apply burning. But it's your kick in that moment which saves your allies' life, it doesn't matter if johnny McSize15 has a better kick than you, because his boots ain't in the right place at the right time are they?
there's support oritented traits
there's healing oriented traits/attributes
healing oriented runes
healing oriented gear
same for dps/durability
150hp/sec is decent healing and we havn't seen it with all healing oriented
Oh, trust me, i know everything about the traits system
Including their effects and how meaningful they are (not all that much, they're additional flavour, not a game changer). Please refer to the exchange up the top of this page.
Comments
I meant one or the other or a combination of all
people are way too idealistic, gw2's system won't completely eliminate roles
Oh yeah~ Sticking down a Healing Turret or placing some Healing Rain, every now and then, is definitely playing a Healer role.
/sarcasm
But let me guess, you were talking about this video when he was receiving MASSIVE HEALS from the Healing Rain. Funny thing is that moments after, the boss hit him for half his health and he would have died, if he didn't use his Death Shroud. Healing wouldn't have helped. ^_^
Of course this game will still have roles to some extent. Otherwise there would be no dps, healing, or damage mitigation...lol. This game is still an mmorpg built on the same foundations of EQ and WoW, meaning that it's a dungeon game. You go with groups and kill mobs. There has to be healing, damage, and damage mitigation abilities. Do you want to try a game that truly has no trinity whatsoever? Go play EVE or PotBS.
So hes swaping his role, just like having no role.
Think in real life, you may be a doctor but wen facing a problem you dont act like one, you just act in order to solve the problem, using your medical knowings or not.
Now I'm going to play the devils advocate on this one, but first of all that video doesn't tell what traits the engineer has selected so that may not even be a total representative of a healing spec'd engineers capabilities.
But what do you call an engineer whos spec'd heavy into healing abilities to the point even his bomb explosions have the secondary affect of also healing. No its not whack a mole healing ie most mmos but this players plan is to help his group by bringing multiple ways to help them regenerate health. To me this is a definition of a healer. The fact that he won't be able out heal the damage output of mobs doesn't change this. An engineer can also drop a bomb when he dodges thus just by doing normal actions ie dodging mobs he's still healing. It could be entirely feasible to build an engineer that every skill results in a heal depending on what is classified as a bomb explosion. Especially with being able to toggle between your weapon, elixir gun, and med kit.
no point argueing with gw2 fanboys they have a set image on what the game will be
roles still exist
you can sitll trait/gear/use weapons for max healing/support same with dmg and control and durability
Correct, if i cast a healing skill for the duration of that skill I'm playing the role of a healer. If i knockback the boss im playing the role of a tank and of course if I nuke him im playing the role of a dps. Thing is....my chosen class X can do all this. That one class. If I choose to sacrifice the effectiveness of my dps and control skills to buff my healing and support skills, that doesn't make me a healer in the holy trinity. It just makes my heal skills stronger. I can still dps and i can still "tank".
In wow when I used to play, I tanking war and a frost mage. My mage couldnt heal or tank, that made him dps. My war couldnt heal or dps, that made him a tank. Understand how its different? Roles do not equal Holy Trinity. Right now you are playing the role of a troll, that doesn't mean you can only troll.
FURTHERMORE, even if you played a hybrid like a druid. And came up with a hybrid spec, it was rarely if ever competitive in pvp or pve.
I dunno man, you seem to be grasping at straws here. I'll repeat it for you ok? Holy Trinity = DEDICATED TANK - DEDICATED HEALER - DEDICATED DPS
The real issue with Holy Trinity was having to choose certain classes in order to play together with your friends. Due to the fact that people hate that they came up with a way we can all play with whoever we want. ANNNND EVERYONE can still fill any ROLE needed.
LOL... I've been itching to say that as well, but chances are I will be banned or at least receive another warning for calling ******* a ***** again.
I guess those people has only played WoW or any other mmorpg in their life, there are 1000s of game out there without the trinity and a lot harder than the games with it o.O
Hybrids died with the cataclysm, I have a druid but cannot longer be a hybrid like on the old times =( . I meant the still have all forms available at all time but I was a resto druid and with that gear my bear and cat form were completely useless.
I guess I can be conciddered a fanoy and I can agree that roles exist. But the thing is Anet never said that they were doing away with roles all together. Let's try to keep it into perspective. There are, however, no dedicated roles key word being DEDICATED. Anyone can fill any role at any time. Some may do it better and some may choose to allocate points to make their character fit their playstyle. What they said was they were doing away with the holy trinity and they have done so. Just because I make my war durable and tanky doesn't mean I am a tank, only that I can absorb the damage better than others that don't trait/gear the same as I do, Is this really that hard to understand?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Indeed, arenanet said specifically there are 3 roles, but they aren't exactly the same as the traditional ones (well, apart from damage). They're called 'support, control and damage'. This isn't just a marketing gimmick, you cannot 'tank' in GW2 as mob's aren't that stupid (there's no 'threat' skills either), and you can't 'heal' damage directly in any significant way like in other MMO's.
However, the main difference is that people dynamically swap between them as needed. If i'm the one taking the damage by pinning the mob close to me using dragging skills and walls as a guardian, but i'm starting to get too weak to carry on, i can roll out while the thief cripples the enemy to keep it from attacking us, when it gets close a warrior can kick it backwards to knock it away. We all just 'controlled' that enemy in three different ways, but none of them really in a traditional 'tanking' sense.
Exactly
however people in these forums seem to think that roles are gone
you just said what I have been saying all along
they don't wanna say it but there is still a healer-ish role
this
well they can't swap that much
Traits/attributes
Im going to put it like this Instead "WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A TRINITY"
Lets think outside the box here for a second? who said MMOs = the HOLY TRINITY? who came up with that?
I see no need for a Trinity.. do away with it and while we are at it lets
Cancel quests
Skipp raids
And take away Battleground
Just do awy with all this bullshit that has been done so many times before...
If GW2 gets ridd of dedicated healers GOOD FOR THEM.. MMOS sure dont need them to function..
Traits don't even come into play with any of that at all.
You don't go 'ooohhh but i didn't trait this doodad to make my kick better so i just wont bother!'. No, you kick that fecker in the face because you're still a mighty son of a bitch, whether or not your kick to the face applies burning or not!
No 20% buff is going to make any spell immensely better than any other and definitely not something like 'on random hit, it may cause burning'. It's what the 'trait whiners' haven't got yet. They need to actually look at the traits
Traits are like a single spice. Sure, it could make the curry nicer, but that curry is still awesome without it, and you'd be a fool to turn it down just because it doesn't have that one spice. Apply that to the kick to the face. Sure, someone may specialise in face kicking, and as such they apply burning. But it's your kick in that moment which saves your allies' life, it doesn't matter if johnny McSize15 has a better kick than you, because his boots ain't in the right place at the right time are they?
The way everyone is arguing over this game and how it plays you would think it had launched as a finished product.
As far as what is being said about it, that can either be exactly the way it launches or nothing like the way it launches. Seen games go either way. I have also seen a game that was one way and then got changed after launch and lost a lot of people. Wait till it launches.
Currently bored with MMO's.
can't wait to "spec healing" on my water ele. two "healing" skills on long cooldowns ticking for that beastly 99HP, saving my allies from those 2K damage hits.
Considering the healing skills will heal 79hp without the traits, yeah, you're really rolling now
Without those traits you wouldn't have been able to do anything! That 20hp basically makes you a dedicated healer and you may as well give up on damage! Your fireballs only do 200 instead of 240!
Yes, i am being deadly serious, that's pretty much the effect traits have. That and some extra conditions on some attacks to give them more 'flavour'
yes, can't ****ing wait. it's going to be so damn beautiful, i will heal the world.
You can keep that damn 'healing rain' to yourself.
You may call it 'healing' but it looks mighty strange to me.
there's support oritented traits
there's healing oriented traits/attributes
healing oriented runes
healing oriented gear
same for dps/durability
150hp/sec is decent healing and we havn't seen it with all healing oriented
Oh, trust me, i know everything about the traits system
Including their effects and how meaningful they are (not all that much, they're additional flavour, not a game changer). Please refer to the exchange up the top of this page.