As far as major issues are concerned, there are only legtimiate complaints, and those are Ilum and endgame PvE content. Aside from that SW:TOR is one of the best themeparks that have come along in years. Most of the complaints are still being thrown around by people who hate the traditional MMORPG formula. There's a lot of little things missing from the game, that I hope will be added in the future, but I won't be so pretentious as to quit the game over the fact that I have no guild bank or that I can't tell when the last time my guildmates or friends logged on.
The problem is that it doesn't follow the "traditional" mmo formula. There shouldn't even be a formula, that's the frikkin problem right there. Blizzard made successful game and it suddenly became a formula. The games preceding it were all very different and had no formula, they were interesting and varied. Companies following this "formula" have and will continue to pay the price both financially and through hits to their reputation.
It's also not pretentious to quit because there are no guild mates ot friends on. That's the entire point of the game, to play with others. It's an MMO.
You're not comprehending what I am saying. My guild has 25 people online at prime time, and I still have some real life friends who play, but if you're looking for someone who's not online, you have no way of knowing when was the last time that person played the game. If you and that individual keep logging in at different times, you're likely to assume that both of you have quit. That's annoying, but it's an alltogether silly feature to quit a game over.
As for the formula comment, it's irrelevant. SW:TOR is a WoW clone just like WAR, AoC, EQ2, LotRO, Rift, and Aion are all WoW clones to varying degrees. BioWare made it no secret that SW:TOR was going to follow the WoW formula, so I'm not sure where the shock and outrage from so many is coming from. Speaking generally, you knew what was coming, and if you didn't like it, you could have stayed far away. Instead, we get 25 threads a day from jaded, no life mouth breathers complaining about how SW:TOR isn't what "they" wanted and even more doom prediction threads from the same people who are jamming the F5 on SW:TOR's server status page, getting sexual tension every time they perceive the population of a server has dropped.
Here's an idea. Lets focus on what the game "is" rather than what it isn't. If SW:TOR wants to be a WoW clone, what does it do better than WoW and what does it do worse than WoW? For what it does better, how can those features be improved? For what it does worse, how can the game improve to make itself better? How can Illum be fixed? What sort of realistic endgame content would the implement to satiate the hardcore crowd? What's wrong with the game engine that makes high resolution textures such a performance killer? How can BioWare solve this issue?
As far as major issues are concerned, there are only legtimiate complaints, and those are Ilum and endgame PvE content. Aside from that SW:TOR is one of the best themeparks that have come along in years. Most of the complaints are still being thrown around by people who hate the traditional MMORPG formula. There's a lot of little things missing from the game, that I hope will be added in the future, but I won't be so pretentious as to quit the game over the fact that I have no guild bank or that I can't tell when the last time my guildmates or friends logged on.
The problem is that it doesn't follow the "traditional" mmo formula. There shouldn't even be a formula, that's the frikkin problem right there. Blizzard made successful game and it suddenly became a formula. The games preceding it were all very different and had no formula, they were interesting and varied. Companies following this "formula" have and will continue to pay the price both financially and through hits to their reputation.
It's also not pretentious to quit because there are no guild mates ot friends on. That's the entire point of the game, to play with others. It's an MMO.
You're not comprehending what I am saying. My guild has 25 people online at prime time, and I still have some real life friends who play, but if you're looking for someone who's not online, you have no way of knowing when was the last time that person played the game. If you and that individual keep logging in at different times, you're likely to assume that both of you have quit. That's annoying, but it's an alltogether silly feature to quit a game over.
As for the formula comment, it's irrelevant. SW:TOR is a WoW clone just like WAR, AoC, EQ2, LotRO, Rift, and Aion are all WoW clones to varying degrees. BioWare made it no secret that SW:TOR was going to follow the WoW formula, so I'm not sure where the shock and outrage from so many is coming from. Speaking generally, you knew what was coming, and if you didn't like it, you could have stayed far away. Instead, we get 25 threads a day from jaded, no life mouth breathers complaining about how SW:TOR isn't what "they" wanted and even more doom prediction threads from the same people who are jamming the F5 on SW:TOR's server status page, getting sexual tension every time they perceive the population of a server has dropped.
Here's an idea. Lets focus on what the game "is" rather than what it isn't. If SW:TOR wants to be a WoW clone, what does it do better than WoW and what does it do worse than WoW? For what it does better, how can those features be improved? For what it does worse, how can the game improve to make itself better? How can Illum be fixed? What sort of realistic endgame content would the implement to satiate the hardcore crowd? What's wrong with the game engine that makes high resolution textures such a performance killer? How can BioWare solve this issue?
I get what you're saying, but as gentlemen we should just agree to disagree, because we will go in circles. My gripe is that I would still be playing this game if it was anywhere close to the "clone" level of WoW or Rift, since that's all we are left with these days. But it doesn't even get there. When i played WoW or Rift ( which i decided to try again after a year ), I feel like i'm playing an MMO because there are a lot of people around me. When i log on to ToR, i'm not around another soul unless i log on and am in the Fleet. It feels empty and lifeless. Their engine can't handle what the previous titles could. An MMO experience. This is what i thought it would be. It is not. That's my problem right there. If that were to change i would possibly contemplate giving it another shot.
have to agree, SW;TOR is mostly a single player game, certainly grouping takes so much effort that its rarely worth it, especially the amount of time it can take to even form a group, its almost like the game is deliberately trying to prevent people from grouping, as for the Full MMO bit, i'd have to say, definitely not yet, im not sure its even trying to be
How? How doe SW:TOR encourage grouping any less than WoW?
Why do people keep raving about how SW:TOR is nothing but a glorified single player game but give a free pass to LotRO, WAR, WoW, and Rift?
As soon as you enter Rift not more than 20mins into your game you are thrown into your first rift, being a public group event. While you may not have to join a physical party to do rifts, they are still objectives where players come together to achieve something. The same could be said about WARs public quests and I'm not a fan of LotRO or WoW so I have no reason to defend them.
SWTOR is so heavily instanced and seperates players on such a massive scale, that it is much closer to a single player game with co-op feature than an MMO that feels like a living world.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
have to agree, SW;TOR is mostly a single player game, certainly grouping takes so much effort that its rarely worth it, especially the amount of time it can take to even form a group, its almost like the game is deliberately trying to prevent people from grouping, as for the Full MMO bit, i'd have to say, definitely not yet, im not sure its even trying to be
How? How doe SW:TOR encourage grouping any less than WoW?
Why do people keep raving about how SW:TOR is nothing but a glorified single player game but give a free pass to LotRO, WAR, WoW, and Rift?
As soon as you enter Rift not more than 20mins into your game you are thrown into your first rift, being a public group event. While you may not have to join a physical party to do rifts, they are still objectives where players come together to achieve something. The same could be said about WARs public quests and I'm not a fan of LotRO or WoW so I have no reason to defend them.
SWTOR is so heavily instanced and seperates players on such a massive scale, that it is much closer to a single player game with co-op feature than an MMO that feels like a living world.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
and you would be sorely mistaken. Although Rift only has around 16 servers, i find groups instantly 24/7, and am able to jump in to group play all over the world map at just about any time i choose. I will not white knight for this game, but your assumption is way off. It surprised me when i logged on to the Rift Lite and saw the life of the game was actually vibrant. I played a bit and realized that i'd missed playing with people. Not just ones i can see in chat or the ones i get grouped with in a dungeon finder. There were people everywhere and the world felt alive. That's nothing to scoff at.
have to agree, SW;TOR is mostly a single player game, certainly grouping takes so much effort that its rarely worth it, especially the amount of time it can take to even form a group, its almost like the game is deliberately trying to prevent people from grouping, as for the Full MMO bit, i'd have to say, definitely not yet, im not sure its even trying to be
How? How doe SW:TOR encourage grouping any less than WoW?
Why do people keep raving about how SW:TOR is nothing but a glorified single player game but give a free pass to LotRO, WAR, WoW, and Rift?
As soon as you enter Rift not more than 20mins into your game you are thrown into your first rift, being a public group event. While you may not have to join a physical party to do rifts, they are still objectives where players come together to achieve something. The same could be said about WARs public quests and I'm not a fan of LotRO or WoW so I have no reason to defend them.
SWTOR is so heavily instanced and seperates players on such a massive scale, that it is much closer to a single player game with co-op feature than an MMO that feels like a living world.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
and you would be sorely mistaken. Although Rift only has around 16 servers, i find groups instantly 24/7, and am able to jump in to group play all over the world map at just about any time i choose. I will not white knight for this game, but your assumption is way off. It surprised me when i logged on to the Rift Lite and saw the life of the game was actually vibrant. I played a bit and realized that i'd missed playing with people. Not just ones i can see in chat or the ones i get grouped with in a dungeon finder. There were people everywhere and the world felt alive. That's nothing to scoff at.
I will corroborate this. I played Rift again like a month ago, and if you go to the heavily populated server, there are like people everywhere of all levels. Yeah, it's only one or two servers pretty much, but on those servers it really feels like an MMO.
I will corroborate this. I played Rift again like a month ago, and if you go to the heavily populated server, there are like people everywhere of all levels. Yeah, it's only one or two servers pretty much, but on those servers it really feels like an MMO.
On SWTOR, even with a full server, it felt empty.
Faeblight has been a great place to play. Like you said it's a only a handful of servers, but it's a solid experience and is a night and day difference to what i experienced on "full" servers while i played ToR.
Look, i understand people's motivation to defend ToR because i was as guilty as anyone during the first month. But that changed for me, as it did for many,many people. These thread will continue to pop up as more people will experience the same let down i did. Does that mean that everyone will feel this way? No, however, it will continue to happen to others and they will voice their opinions here.
have to agree, SW;TOR is mostly a single player game, certainly grouping takes so much effort that its rarely worth it, especially the amount of time it can take to even form a group, its almost like the game is deliberately trying to prevent people from grouping, as for the Full MMO bit, i'd have to say, definitely not yet, im not sure its even trying to be
How? How doe SW:TOR encourage grouping any less than WoW?
Why do people keep raving about how SW:TOR is nothing but a glorified single player game but give a free pass to LotRO, WAR, WoW, and Rift?
As soon as you enter Rift not more than 20mins into your game you are thrown into your first rift, being a public group event. While you may not have to join a physical party to do rifts, they are still objectives where players come together to achieve something. The same could be said about WARs public quests and I'm not a fan of LotRO or WoW so I have no reason to defend them.
SWTOR is so heavily instanced and seperates players on such a massive scale, that it is much closer to a single player game with co-op feature than an MMO that feels like a living world.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
and you would be sorely mistaken. Although Rift only has around 16 servers, i find groups instantly 24/7, and am able to jump in to group play all over the world map at just about any time i choose. I will not white knight for this game, but your assumption is way off. It surprised me when i logged on to the Rift Lite and saw the life of the game was actually vibrant. I played a bit and realized that i'd missed playing with people. Not just ones i can see in chat or the ones i get grouped with in a dungeon finder. There were people everywhere and the world felt alive. That's nothing to scoff at.
I played Rift as of a couple weeks ago, and I do not see this massive amount of activity that you state and my level 50 is on Faeblight. Meridian is packed as it always is, but areas like Freemarch, Moonshade Highlands, and Scarlet Gorge aren't exactly packed with people. At prime time on my SW:TOR server, there's usually at least 30 people per zone, but I only see about 5 or so players while running around the gameworld. I have no idea how many players are in a given zone in Rift, but I can't say I saw a great deal more players running around. Rift raiding died after around the first month. If you want to talk to me about finding groups, you act as if you can't easily find groups 24/7 in SW:TOR. On my server, people are grouping up for flashpoints and heroic quests all the time. I grouped up in SW:TOR 4 times as much as I grouped while leveling up in Rift.
Again, if your enjoyment of an MMORPG stems from how many random people you see running by you on a daily basis then good for you, but stop acting like SW:TOR is some kind of single player game just because you don't see as many people running around. Neither game does any better than the other in terms of encouraging player interaction.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
and you would be sorely mistaken. Although Rift only has around 16 servers, i find groups instantly 24/7, and am able to jump in to group play all over the world map at just about any time i choose. I will not white knight for this game, but your assumption is way off. It surprised me when i logged on to the Rift Lite and saw the life of the game was actually vibrant. I played a bit and realized that i'd missed playing with people. Not just ones i can see in chat or the ones i get grouped with in a dungeon finder. There were people everywhere and the world felt alive. That's nothing to scoff at.
I played Rift as of a couple weeks ago, and I do not see this massive amount of activity that you state and my level 50 is on Faeblight. Meridian is packed as it always is, but areas like Freemarch, Moonshade Highlands, and Scarlet Gorge aren't exactly packed with people. At prime time on my SW:TOR server, there's usually at least 30 people per zone, but I only see about 5 or so players while running around the gameworld. I have no idea how many players are in a given zone in Rift, but I can't say I saw a great deal more players running around. Rift raiding died after around the first month. If you want to talk to me about finding groups, you act as if you can't easily find groups 24/7 in SW:TOR. On my server, people are grouping up for flashpoints and heroic quests all the time. I grouped up in SW:TOR 4 times as much as I grouped while leveling up in Rift.
Again, if your enjoyment of an MMORPG stems from how many random people you see running by you on a daily basis then good for you, but stop acting like SW:TOR is some kind of single player game just because you don't see as many people running around. Neither game does any better than the other in terms of encouraging player interaction.
I think I was on Wolfsbane about a month ago and it was hopping. I made a new char on the Defiant side and ran into a few new players (some totally new to the game) in the starting area. There were also a bunch of people running around the Defiant starting zone.
I'm sure there are places that are dead, but the Defiant starting zone definitely was not . Generally, PvP queues weren't too bad either.
what could we expect, bioware doesnt do living breathing worlds that constantly change, they do linear driven experiences with a heavy emphasis on story.
You could just say that you don't share in their opinion and shrug it off. Instead you run to the MMORPG.com forums to add one more thread to where no more are needed.
You could say this about nearly every topic on these boards. But then we would not get anywhere, would we?
I think the trend of all recent MMO's to be mostly a solo experience while leveling combined with the heavy instancing has cloaked what SWTOR really is for some players. Those who play very causually, play a lot of alts, who mosly play solo, who only play with 3-4 people, this is probably a pretty good game in their eyes.
Where this game completely breaks down is the MMO part, the lack of a vibrant "alive" world, the lack of enough 'end' game content, one of the most talked about end game features, Illum being rendered completely useless. The gamers who are upset fall in this group.
To the people constantly bring up you should have expected this it is a WoW cloan. If SWTOR was even remotely close to a WoW cloan you would most likely have a lot more happy people than you do. If Bioware completely copied WoW in every single detail just adding Star Wars lore and world setting it would be a MUCH better game than what they gave us. If they meant to make a WoW cloan they left almost all the WoW out of the cloan.
Maybe their comment shows that they have heard the feedback that people want and expect a living breathing world. At the very least, I would think they might be working to make this a reality for their game. Only time will tell if they succeed. As of now, they have not, but the game has only just launched.
Why would they be working on making a living, breathing world when SWTOR is already "built around one", at least according to the original quote. That's the whole point of the discussion. Bioware (which isn't really Bioware, but the new EA branded Bioware) is to the point that they are willing to severely stretch the truth (or lie) to encourage people to play or continue to play. I won't be purchasing anymore Bioware games, period. Then again, I don't think I'll be purchasing any games with the EA logo anywhere on them any more either.
I'm with ya on that one. I'm not purchasing another EA title unless things change quite drastically. It has nothing to do with SW:TOR its just their practices in general. The Mass Effect 3 Nonsense is the last straw for me. Protheans are a main story component and that day 1 DLC for 10 dollars is just a slap in the face to old bioware supporters. Been playing bioware stuff since 1998.
Its not the issue of money sure its just an extra ten bucks. Its the principle and the way they treat customers, it seems instead of using the Bioware name to gain trust and loyalty EA seems to have chosen the path of exploiting the Bioware name and what most publishers do... kill the good name of the developer they devoured in the process.
Give Swtor 8 years , and youll get the best game out there,
What you seems to forget are that swtor is still brand new, you stil get the founders title.
Take it easy and enjoy the ride swtor gives you ,and dont rush so fast in a new game, you kids consumes way to fast
This must be perhaps the most forgiving "MMOs need time to improve" post I've ever seen, for any MMO, on any forum, ever.
An 8 year beta using the paid subscribers as the beta test group? What do you think this is? a FunCom game?
Pretty much lol.
I don't even think it'll be fully 8 years for SE to have completely made FFXIV, and then re-launched 2.0. Though I could be wrong.
I mean, even if you wanted to give an MMO the extreme benefit of the doubt, that's really pushing it. I think within the first year, much less in some cases (Auto Assault anyone?), you can pretty much tell which way a MMO is heading.
have to agree, SW;TOR is mostly a single player game, certainly grouping takes so much effort that its rarely worth it, especially the amount of time it can take to even form a group, its almost like the game is deliberately trying to prevent people from grouping, as for the Full MMO bit, i'd have to say, definitely not yet, im not sure its even trying to be
How? How doe SW:TOR encourage grouping any less than WoW?
Why do people keep raving about how SW:TOR is nothing but a glorified single player game but give a free pass to LotRO, WAR, WoW, and Rift?
As soon as you enter Rift not more than 20mins into your game you are thrown into your first rift, being a public group event. While you may not have to join a physical party to do rifts, they are still objectives where players come together to achieve something. The same could be said about WARs public quests and I'm not a fan of LotRO or WoW so I have no reason to defend them.
SWTOR is so heavily instanced and seperates players on such a massive scale, that it is much closer to a single player game with co-op feature than an MMO that feels like a living world.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
If that were the only interaction you could have with others in a MMO, you'd have a point.
Of course it's not, and you know it.
You are merely deliberately painting an extremely specific, and highly slanted picture which you believe supports your side of the argument.
Mob stealing is one of many things that could happen among other players, not something that invariably does. And it's not even so cut and dry. For one, if it's a shared quest area, the mobs are free game for anyone questing there. For another, those other players could very well feel that you're stealing their quest mobs. That door swings both ways. Further still, if the quest mobs aren't plentiful enough, it's not unusual to have people team up to share in the kills so everyone gets credit and no one has to feel at a loss. So there's yet another way your far-too-specific characterization of it is flawed.
What you suspect and what actually is are two different things. Assumption is not an argument. A flawed assumption is even less so. The fact is you do actually see others leveling up and playing the game around you in those other games, at all level ranges. And you can interact with them, talk to them, compete against them or team up with them as the situation warrants.
When wow came, wow had so much bugs and crashed all the time.
I think i got over 40 days of extra days becouse of this.
Also think of the content wow had , 1-60 , 2 raid dungeons and a few instances.
Give Swtor 8 years , and youll get the best game out there,
What you seems to forget are that swtor is still brand new, you stil get the founders title.
Take it easy and enjoy the ride swtor gives you ,and dont rush so fast in a new game, you kids consumes way to fast
For at least the tenth time, I was in WoW at launch, it didn't have 'so many bugs' and it didn't 'crash all the time'. a FEW servers crashed a lot. I think I got like 10 days credit and that was just because everyone got that, I was hardly affected on a very populated Argent Dawn (main RP server for Vanilla WoW).
WoW wasn't old and intolerable after two weeks, SWTOR is. WoW is still essentially WoW 1-60, which is where it's drew most it's subs. Cataclysm is the biggest change to that. SWTOR can't survive 8 years with it's 1-XX game in it's current condition.
Yes and no it won't stay in current condition. SWTOR is Biwoare's flagship MMO, you think they will just leave it in its current state and move on? SWTOR being intolerable is matter of opinion, i am sure many are enjoying the game and also there were like me who got bored of WOW after one month of release.
And yes WOW did crash and a lot of people had serious troubles logging in. If you were REALLY at launch you would know that Blizzard compensated a large chunk of players for losing play time and yes i was one of those players. i and my guildies couldn't log in to WOW for 5 days straight because of regular crashes.
If you're calling him a liar, then you'll call me one too, I guess. I ALSO was playing WoW at launch after the open beta and getting a nelf druid to level 17 and the game ran beautifully. Starting over with a new toon after launch, yes....there were some problems, like characters freezing when looting, some disconnects from the server, and assorted other small things, BUT....not any 40 days free game time worth. I too, like he said, got about 10 days of free time from these problems. So either you were on a super shitty server, or we weren't playing the same game, because it wasn't all THAT bad as you're making it out to be. At least it wasn't on Lothar server.
You should apologize for basically calling that other poster a liar just because his release experience differed from yours. Now that I've basically done the same thing to you....doesn't feel too good, does it?
Yeah i cried myself to sleep. *rolls eyes*.
However, you said 'if' i am calling him a liar...which i didn't. So due to your own lack of reading skills and assumption you went on to write this rant good job. And no i didn't call him a liar. But WOW launch didn't go all that smooth like people here always try to make it look.
When wow came, wow had so much bugs and crashed all the time.
I think i got over 40 days of extra days becouse of this.
Also think of the content wow had , 1-60 , 2 raid dungeons and a few instances.
Give Swtor 8 years , and youll get the best game out there,
What you seems to forget are that swtor is still brand new, you stil get the founders title.
Take it easy and enjoy the ride swtor gives you ,and dont rush so fast in a new game, you kids consumes way to fast
For at least the tenth time, I was in WoW at launch, it didn't have 'so many bugs' and it didn't 'crash all the time'. a FEW servers crashed a lot. I think I got like 10 days credit and that was just because everyone got that, I was hardly affected on a very populated Argent Dawn (main RP server for Vanilla WoW).
WoW wasn't old and intolerable after two weeks, SWTOR is. WoW is still essentially WoW 1-60, which is where it's drew most it's subs. Cataclysm is the biggest change to that. SWTOR can't survive 8 years with it's 1-XX game in it's current condition.
Yes and no it won't stay in current condition. SWTOR is Biwoare's flagship MMO, you think they will just leave it in its current state and move on? SWTOR being intolerable is matter of opinion, i am sure many are enjoying the game and also there were like me who got bored of WOW after one month of release.
And yes WOW did crash and a lot of people had serious troubles logging in. If you were REALLY at launch you would know that Blizzard compensated a large chunk of players for losing play time and yes i was one of those players. i and my guildies couldn't log in to WOW for 5 days straight because of regular crashes.
If you're calling him a liar, then you'll call me one too, I guess. I ALSO was playing WoW at launch after the open beta and getting a nelf druid to level 17 and the game ran beautifully. Starting over with a new toon after launch, yes....there were some problems, like characters freezing when looting, some disconnects from the server, and assorted other small things, BUT....not any 40 days free game time worth. I too, like he said, got about 10 days of free time from these problems. So either you were on a super shitty server, or we weren't playing the same game, because it wasn't all THAT bad as you're making it out to be. At least it wasn't on Lothar server.
You should apologize for basically calling that other poster a liar just because his release experience differed from yours. Now that I've basically done the same thing to you....doesn't feel too good, does it?
Yeah i cried myself to sleep. *rolls eyes*.
However, you said 'if' i am calling him a liar...which i didn't. So due to your own lack of reading skills and assumption you went on to write this rant good job. And no i didn't call him a liar. But WOW launch didn't go all that smooth like people here always try to make it look.
Well, the WOW lauch was good enough to be booming after 5 months and be over a million after one year. Thats more than SWTOR will ever do, fucking fanbois I swear to god.
Comments
You're not comprehending what I am saying. My guild has 25 people online at prime time, and I still have some real life friends who play, but if you're looking for someone who's not online, you have no way of knowing when was the last time that person played the game. If you and that individual keep logging in at different times, you're likely to assume that both of you have quit. That's annoying, but it's an alltogether silly feature to quit a game over.
As for the formula comment, it's irrelevant. SW:TOR is a WoW clone just like WAR, AoC, EQ2, LotRO, Rift, and Aion are all WoW clones to varying degrees. BioWare made it no secret that SW:TOR was going to follow the WoW formula, so I'm not sure where the shock and outrage from so many is coming from. Speaking generally, you knew what was coming, and if you didn't like it, you could have stayed far away. Instead, we get 25 threads a day from jaded, no life mouth breathers complaining about how SW:TOR isn't what "they" wanted and even more doom prediction threads from the same people who are jamming the F5 on SW:TOR's server status page, getting sexual tension every time they perceive the population of a server has dropped.
Here's an idea. Lets focus on what the game "is" rather than what it isn't. If SW:TOR wants to be a WoW clone, what does it do better than WoW and what does it do worse than WoW? For what it does better, how can those features be improved? For what it does worse, how can the game improve to make itself better? How can Illum be fixed? What sort of realistic endgame content would the implement to satiate the hardcore crowd? What's wrong with the game engine that makes high resolution textures such a performance killer? How can BioWare solve this issue?
I get what you're saying, but as gentlemen we should just agree to disagree, because we will go in circles. My gripe is that I would still be playing this game if it was anywhere close to the "clone" level of WoW or Rift, since that's all we are left with these days. But it doesn't even get there. When i played WoW or Rift ( which i decided to try again after a year ), I feel like i'm playing an MMO because there are a lot of people around me. When i log on to ToR, i'm not around another soul unless i log on and am in the Fleet. It feels empty and lifeless. Their engine can't handle what the previous titles could. An MMO experience. This is what i thought it would be. It is not. That's my problem right there. If that were to change i would possibly contemplate giving it another shot.
Those features are only worth mentioning as long as the respective games have the population to support those features which they do not.
SW:TOR devs went overboard on the player limit for each instance of every zone, but aside from that there's little difference between the solo questing model for either game. If what makes an MMORPG for you is nothing much more than the ability to see nondescript players running around stealing your quest mobs, then well, whatever floats your boat I supppose. Though I suspect you don't really see a whole lot of players leveling up in any of those games anymore so it all balances out.
and you would be sorely mistaken. Although Rift only has around 16 servers, i find groups instantly 24/7, and am able to jump in to group play all over the world map at just about any time i choose. I will not white knight for this game, but your assumption is way off. It surprised me when i logged on to the Rift Lite and saw the life of the game was actually vibrant. I played a bit and realized that i'd missed playing with people. Not just ones i can see in chat or the ones i get grouped with in a dungeon finder. There were people everywhere and the world felt alive. That's nothing to scoff at.
I will corroborate this. I played Rift again like a month ago, and if you go to the heavily populated server, there are like people everywhere of all levels. Yeah, it's only one or two servers pretty much, but on those servers it really feels like an MMO.
On SWTOR, even with a full server, it felt empty.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Faeblight has been a great place to play. Like you said it's a only a handful of servers, but it's a solid experience and is a night and day difference to what i experienced on "full" servers while i played ToR.
Look, i understand people's motivation to defend ToR because i was as guilty as anyone during the first month. But that changed for me, as it did for many,many people. These thread will continue to pop up as more people will experience the same let down i did. Does that mean that everyone will feel this way? No, however, it will continue to happen to others and they will voice their opinions here.
Thank you for understanding how i felt here.
I played Rift as of a couple weeks ago, and I do not see this massive amount of activity that you state and my level 50 is on Faeblight. Meridian is packed as it always is, but areas like Freemarch, Moonshade Highlands, and Scarlet Gorge aren't exactly packed with people. At prime time on my SW:TOR server, there's usually at least 30 people per zone, but I only see about 5 or so players while running around the gameworld. I have no idea how many players are in a given zone in Rift, but I can't say I saw a great deal more players running around. Rift raiding died after around the first month. If you want to talk to me about finding groups, you act as if you can't easily find groups 24/7 in SW:TOR. On my server, people are grouping up for flashpoints and heroic quests all the time. I grouped up in SW:TOR 4 times as much as I grouped while leveling up in Rift.
Again, if your enjoyment of an MMORPG stems from how many random people you see running by you on a daily basis then good for you, but stop acting like SW:TOR is some kind of single player game just because you don't see as many people running around. Neither game does any better than the other in terms of encouraging player interaction.
I think I was on Wolfsbane about a month ago and it was hopping. I made a new char on the Defiant side and ran into a few new players (some totally new to the game) in the starting area. There were also a bunch of people running around the Defiant starting zone.
I'm sure there are places that are dead, but the Defiant starting zone definitely was not
. Generally, PvP queues weren't too bad either.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
And so does the delusional BioEA. Also I have far more fun on these fourms then I had in SWTOR.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
@OP
what could we expect, bioware doesnt do living breathing worlds that constantly change, they do linear driven experiences with a heavy emphasis on story.
You could say this about nearly every topic on these boards. But then we would not get anywhere, would we?
And to take it further, Bread is not the only thing that is made from Milk and Flour. Analogy is just too short sighted.
This must be perhaps the most forgiving "MMOs need time to improve" post I've ever seen, for any MMO, on any forum, ever.
An 8 year beta using the paid subscribers as the beta test group? What do you think this is? a FunCom game?
I think the trend of all recent MMO's to be mostly a solo experience while leveling combined with the heavy instancing has cloaked what SWTOR really is for some players. Those who play very causually, play a lot of alts, who mosly play solo, who only play with 3-4 people, this is probably a pretty good game in their eyes.
Where this game completely breaks down is the MMO part, the lack of a vibrant "alive" world, the lack of enough 'end' game content, one of the most talked about end game features, Illum being rendered completely useless. The gamers who are upset fall in this group.
To the people constantly bring up you should have expected this it is a WoW cloan. If SWTOR was even remotely close to a WoW cloan you would most likely have a lot more happy people than you do. If Bioware completely copied WoW in every single detail just adding Star Wars lore and world setting it would be a MUCH better game than what they gave us. If they meant to make a WoW cloan they left almost all the WoW out of the cloan.
I'm with ya on that one. I'm not purchasing another EA title unless things change quite drastically. It has nothing to do with SW:TOR its just their practices in general. The Mass Effect 3 Nonsense is the last straw for me. Protheans are a main story component and that day 1 DLC for 10 dollars is just a slap in the face to old bioware supporters. Been playing bioware stuff since 1998.
Its not the issue of money sure its just an extra ten bucks. Its the principle and the way they treat customers, it seems instead of using the Bioware name to gain trust and loyalty EA seems to have chosen the path of exploiting the Bioware name and what most publishers do... kill the good name of the developer they devoured in the process.
Thing is with TOR the devs choosed their grain badly and even more never thought more than 2 secs about the magical ingredient: yeast.
It takes art to make great bread.
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SWTOR and EA deserve the bashing. It's an objectively horrible game made by an objectively horrible company.
(Love the "circles" pun, though.)
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Pretty much lol.
I don't even think it'll be fully 8 years for SE to have completely made FFXIV, and then re-launched 2.0. Though I could be wrong.
I mean, even if you wanted to give an MMO the extreme benefit of the doubt, that's really pushing it. I think within the first year, much less in some cases (Auto Assault anyone?), you can pretty much tell which way a MMO is heading.
If that were the only interaction you could have with others in a MMO, you'd have a point.
Of course it's not, and you know it.
You are merely deliberately painting an extremely specific, and highly slanted picture which you believe supports your side of the argument.
Mob stealing is one of many things that could happen among other players, not something that invariably does. And it's not even so cut and dry. For one, if it's a shared quest area, the mobs are free game for anyone questing there. For another, those other players could very well feel that you're stealing their quest mobs. That door swings both ways. Further still, if the quest mobs aren't plentiful enough, it's not unusual to have people team up to share in the kills so everyone gets credit and no one has to feel at a loss. So there's yet another way your far-too-specific characterization of it is flawed.
What you suspect and what actually is are two different things. Assumption is not an argument. A flawed assumption is even less so. The fact is you do actually see others leveling up and playing the game around you in those other games, at all level ranges. And you can interact with them, talk to them, compete against them or team up with them as the situation warrants.
Wait, so you think Skyrim isnt innovative in any way?
And I thought Bioware was delusional.
Yeah i cried myself to sleep. *rolls eyes*.
However, you said 'if' i am calling him a liar...which i didn't. So due to your own lack of reading skills and assumption you went on to write this rant good job. And no i didn't call him a liar. But WOW launch didn't go all that smooth like people here always try to make it look.
Well, the WOW lauch was good enough to be booming after 5 months and be over a million after one year. Thats more than SWTOR will ever do, fucking fanbois I swear to god.
Princess Leia loves BioWare though..
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/4/6/3/3/9/0/a_med_Halloween_slave_leia.jpg.jpg
oh you can't be serious. You can't be serious someone kill me now. The basic elements of an MMO are those of an offline standard RPG?
The basic elements of an MMO have nothing to do with either massive, multiplayer and online?
ffs someone fuck me.
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