I think they are quite similar just one is more combat based and the other dexiterity based. They are both platformer type puzzles.
Well.. they are both jumping puzzles and i cant deny it
but the TB one has much more complexity and really works like a good dungeon should: pretty challenging with unexpected development while imposing fear to the player, requiring some time and work to finish it.
the other one is just the way to get a skill point
in the TB vid the puzzle has A LOT less challenging jumping than the other vids... the only real challenge to get tot he boss was the fire IMO, everything else was simple dont step in the red circle mechanic. I think the fear imposing part was just his comentating =P
in the TB vid the puzzle has A LOT less challenging jumping than the other vids... the only real challenge to get tot he boss was the fire IMO, everything else was simple dont step in the red circle mechanic. I think the fear imposing part was just his comentating =P
Yeah, but different difficulty is good. If all of them would be really hard it would turn many players off, but some should be.
The whole idea that everything on a certain level should have the same difficulty is rather boring. Here they can make lower ones hard or easy as they like since falling to death have nothing to do with levels.
I think they are quite similar just one is more combat based and the other dexiterity based. They are both platformer type puzzles.
Well.. they are both jumping puzzles and i cant deny it
but the TB one has much more complexity and really works like a good dungeon should: pretty challenging with unexpected development while imposing fear to the player, requiring some time and work to finish it.
the other one is just the way to get a skill point
in the TB vid the puzzle has A LOT less challenging jumping than the other vids... the only real challenge to get tot he boss was the fire IMO, everything else was simple dont step in the red circle mechanic. I think the fear imposing part was just his comentating =P
Cause TB's jump puzzle isnt a mere puzzle but a dungeon with lots of non combat challenges. The fear comes from it being a dark place where you cant see the floor. Falling means certain death[ and a long run].
And look at how many time they took to finish them. While TB's took 2 hours, several deaths and heavy edition , the one on cursenetwork took 6min and i havent seen any cut on the movie. Just keep in mind the guy on curse said "Let me tank it... i have it" and then died 1shotted on ascalon catacombs.
While one serves as a cake to a cherry the other one is a complex enviroment.
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk Originally posted by Metentso One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
Me too, actually. Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
You know, I really wish we could pick traits in real life. Let's say every birthday after I'm five years old, I get a point to invest in something cool, or a talent, or just my "attributes". As well as that, every birthday at midnight my fighting skills just increase magically, regardless of other factors.
Each traits cost five points?
By the time I turned thirty I'd have learnt how to play the piano two-handed with my eyes shut, memorise every single element, compound and their various properties on the periodic table, gained the ability to photographically recall facts and memories, and attained a god-like level of hand-to-hand combat skill.
And perhaps, just perhaps, I would have reached the intelligence of the remarkably wise Plinkplonk.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
Me too, actually.
Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
Well that raises questions. How much we'll be missing? What if most guilds happens to love that? By the replies this seems most likely.
In that case you just play in a guild that doesn´t like them. The only reason for anyone not wanting to do them to still feel forced is if a gear with really cool appearence is the reward for one of those events and frankly have i done pretty boring stuff in games for gear. Here the stats really wont be what forces you to get it.
I fear that there always will be some content in MMOs that some people don´t like but still feel forced to do, but with these things I think it will be pretty rare. Holding the guilds keep in the mists will annoy PvE fans more than this will be a problem for people who hate tombraiding.
One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
Me too, actually.
Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
Well that raises questions. How much we'll be missing? What if most guilds happens to love that? By the replies this seems most likely.
Well, the thing I like the most about GW2's design philosophy is that pretty much everything is "optional". If you don't like PvP, you don't have to do it. If you don't like instanced dungeons, you don't have to do them etc... Imo they're trying to cram as many different gametypes into a mmorpg framework with only your character being the connecting element (and the game setting itself...)
Ideally, each of those gametypes should be rich and fulfilling enough to be worth the price of the box. Some people, me included, would pay the box price just for WvW... if it fullfills its promise. Whether ANet will manage to achieve this lofty goal of 4+ games for the price of one, remains to be seen. (e-sport PvP, world vs world, "classical" exploration mmo, instanced coorpg)
As for the guild concern.. well you can be a member of many guilds, so if one of them decides to go exploring jumping puzzles you can excuse yourself and go off WvW-ing with another guild for the duration... At the moment the guild system seems to imply that you won't be able to max out all guild perks so you'll almost certainly have specialist guilds - explorer's guild, dungeoneering guild, open world dragon-hunting guild, wvw and crafters guilds...
You know, I really wish we could pick traits in real life. Let's say every birthday after I'm five years old, I get a point to invest in something cool, or a talent, or just
my "attributes". As well as that, every birthday at midnight my fighting skills just
increase magically, regardless of other factors.
Each traits cost five points?
By the time I turned thirty I'd have learnt how to play the piano two-handed with my eyes shut, memorise every single element, compound and their various properties on the periodic table, gained the ability to photographically recall facts and memories, and attained a god-like level of hand-to-hand combat skill.
And perhaps, just perhaps, I would have reached the intelligence of the remarkably wise Plinkplonk.
You can. Try to learn a different language, take a survival course or read a book about something you want to learn.
Even in MMOs traits are not automatic, you need to get XP to gain traits. IRL you need those XP in the thing you want to improve, but the principle is the same.
I know a lot about history, can use a sword and survive in the woods for a while. I am an excellent shot, can cook a bit and are good with computers and machines. I dumped my mathematics skill though.
Everybody gets traits as they pass through life and there are actaully ways to raise your IQ and strenght if you are willing to put work into it. Sometimes you gain abilities by doing stuff that is surprising, a study shows that older (60+ that is) mmo players have a lot better memory than other seniors.
But if you want combat skills you need to gain them the hard way. Mine is from the airforce together with playing airsoft, and the swordfencing is coming from SCA. I am hardly a high level warrior though.
The maps are littered with things hidden in the environment. What you might find is varied. It might be a skill point challenge, a mini-dungeon, a chest, an achievment, a vendor or a trigger for a Dynamic Event. Some of these are reached by jumping puzzles, some by more traditional puzzles, some are linked to the current state of a Dynamic Event, but most are just interesting places you may find off the beaten path, with no jumping skills required.
In the article I linked, the author mentions that one Meta-event actually can result in an entrance to a non-instanced mini-dungeon to open up when the event is in a particular state. So, not only are some hidden places not even available to be found unles certain events are at certain stages, but any mini-dungeons you find are non-instanced, which should make the instancing minimalists happy.
This is all well above and beyond various examples of explorers rewards found in most other games that even bother.
One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
One thing I like about GW2 is that its changing the way we look at MMOs.
the point should also be made that there's not a single boss in a dungeon which isn't pretty much a platformer's boss. they run around getting angrier as they die and faster and you can almost hear the pipipipipip music in the background.
you might say they're bringing the platformer's map back to the platformer's boss?
Hmm..the same mechanic was used in swtor and rift the exact same way, probably will be used heavily in TSW too. Not something to get excited about but an interesting mechanic nonetheless.
Hmm..the same mechanic was used in swtor and rift the exact same way, probably will be used heavily in TSW too. Not something to get excited about but an interesting mechanic nonetheless.
The problem is that they were implemented so poorly in those two games that most of us dont care about them.
The collision detection in SWTOR made datacron finding more of an annoyance than a fun diversion. I fell through the world a number of times, or hit the invisible roof while jumping, or I couldnt climb up a small slope that was smaller than other slopes I could - just because it was the wrong way to get to a datacron.
There were some gems and nice locations, but for the most part it was just an annoyance that you had to do.
And the Rift version? The word 'boring' springs to mind.
Lets hope the majority of the GW2 platforming is like we can see in this video, which looks fun.
One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
Me too, actually.
Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
Well that raises questions. How much we'll be missing? What if most guilds happens to love that? By the replies this seems most likely.
Well, the thing I like the most about GW2's design philosophy is that pretty much everything is "optional". If you don't like PvP, you don't have to do it. If you don't like instanced dungeons, you don't have to do them etc... Imo they're trying to cram as many different gametypes into a mmorpg framework with only your character being the connecting element (and the game setting itself...)
Ideally, each of those gametypes should be rich and fulfilling enough to be worth the price of the box. Some people, me included, would pay the box price just for WvW... if it fullfills its promise. Whether ANet will manage to achieve this lofty goal of 4+ games for the price of one, remains to be seen. (e-sport PvP, world vs world, "classical" exploration mmo, instanced coorpg)
As for the guild concern.. well you can be a member of many guilds, so if one of them decides to go exploring jumping puzzles you can excuse yourself and go off WvW-ing with another guild for the duration... At the moment the guild system seems to imply that you won't be able to max out all guild perks so you'll almost certainly have specialist guilds - explorer's guild, dungeoneering guild, open world dragon-hunting guild, wvw and crafters guilds...
That's a good point. With this platform silliness and the scaling system i'm a bit disappointed. Will just have to wait and see.
I have no doubt the game will be worth buying it anyway.
Well I hope the jumping in this game isn't as annoying as SWTOR. Nothing worse than jumping right at the edge only to be forced to fall. The jumping is off in that game by a few miliseconds, but it annoyed me when trying to get some of the datacrons.
I am actually surprised a mmorpg has a feauture which has existed in single player games for 35 years; platforming.
Unfortunately, character controls in very few MMOs are responsive enough to make platforming gameplay viable. Also unfortunately, not all MMOs feature movement controls like jumping and dodging.
I am actually surprised a mmorpg has a feauture which has existed in single player games for 35 years; platforming.
Unfortunately, character controls in very few MMOs are responsive enough to make platforming gameplay viable. Also unfortunately, not all MMOs feature movement controls like jumping and dodging.
Rarely if ever are gimicks like this successful, for two reasons:
1) They are almost always clunky versions of what might be fun in a game that focused on it. Examples: bowling in GTA4, horseshoes in Red Dead, datacrons in SWTOR, climbing the wood lattice in Rift for that pick, etc
2) They are immersion breaking. Sure, mini-games in Mario Party or something are fine, but in an RPG if these mechanics don't feel immersive then they simply are like "Oh, there is a jumping puzzle for no reason that I need to do to get some bonus"
But that is just my opinion of course. I wish an MMO would take itself seriously regarding lore and gameplay mechanics. Seems these mini-games are becoming more popular (Rift, SWTOR, and now GW2).
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Rarely if ever are gimicks like this successful, for two reasons:
1) They are almost always clunky versions of what might be fun in a game that focused on it. Examples: bowling in GTA4, horseshoes in Red Dead, datacrons in SWTOR, climbing the wood lattice in Rift for that pick, etc
2) They are immersion breaking. Sure, mini-games in Mario Party or something are fine, but in an RPG if these mechanics don't feel immersive then they simply are like "Oh, there is a jumping puzzle for no reason that I need to do to get some bonus"
But that is just my opinion of course. I wish an MMO would take itself seriously regarding lore and gameplay mechanics. Seems these mini-games are becoming more popular (Rift, SWTOR, and now GW2).
If dungeons full of monster is fine so should dungeons with traps and physical challenges.
If you really think about it only a madman would build any kind of dungeon.
Rarely if ever are gimicks like this successful, for two reasons:
1) They are almost always clunky versions of what might be fun in a game that focused on it. Examples: bowling in GTA4, horseshoes in Red Dead, datacrons in SWTOR, climbing the wood lattice in Rift for that pick, etc
2) They are immersion breaking. Sure, mini-games in Mario Party or something are fine, but in an RPG if these mechanics don't feel immersive then they simply are like "Oh, there is a jumping puzzle for no reason that I need to do to get some bonus"
But that is just my opinion of course. I wish an MMO would take itself seriously regarding lore and gameplay mechanics. Seems these mini-games are becoming more popular (Rift, SWTOR, and now GW2).
If dungeons full of monster is fine so should dungeons with traps and physical challenges.
If you really think about it only a madman would build any kind of dungeon.
And just what would you have all the 'madmen' do? With the thugs and drunk drivers?
Rarely if ever are gimicks like this successful, for two reasons:
1) They are almost always clunky versions of what might be fun in a game that focused on it. Examples: bowling in GTA4, horseshoes in Red Dead, datacrons in SWTOR, climbing the wood lattice in Rift for that pick, etc
2) They are immersion breaking. Sure, mini-games in Mario Party or something are fine, but in an RPG if these mechanics don't feel immersive then they simply are like "Oh, there is a jumping puzzle for no reason that I need to do to get some bonus"
But that is just my opinion of course. I wish an MMO would take itself seriously regarding lore and gameplay mechanics. Seems these mini-games are becoming more popular (Rift, SWTOR, and now GW2).
If dungeons full of monster is fine so should dungeons with traps and physical challenges.
If you really think about it only a madman would build any kind of dungeon.
I'm all for traps and physical challenges that make sense. In fact, traps and puzzles in my mind are amazingly underused in MMOs. But thoughtful traps and puzzles they need to be, in such a way that you actually feel like they belong there. If GW2 can do this in an immersive way I'm all for it. I'm just going by my experiences in other games that have implemented mini-games: all of them were failed attempts in my mind for the above two reasons...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
in the TB vid the puzzle has A LOT less challenging jumping than the other vids... the only real challenge to get tot he boss was the fire IMO, everything else was simple dont step in the red circle mechanic. I think the fear imposing part was just his comentating =P
Nothing refreshing in that really.. Might aswell play DDO or SWTOR or Rift in that matter. Of course its good to have something like those in mmo's.
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
Yeah, but different difficulty is good. If all of them would be really hard it would turn many players off, but some should be.
The whole idea that everything on a certain level should have the same difficulty is rather boring. Here they can make lower ones hard or easy as they like since falling to death have nothing to do with levels.
Cause TB's jump puzzle isnt a mere puzzle but a dungeon with lots of non combat challenges. The fear comes from it being a dark place where you cant see the floor. Falling means certain death[ and a long run].
And look at how many time they took to finish them. While TB's took 2 hours, several deaths and heavy edition , the one on cursenetwork took 6min and i havent seen any cut on the movie. Just keep in mind the guy on curse said "Let me tank it... i have it" and then died 1shotted on ascalon catacombs.
While one serves as a cake to a cherry the other one is a complex enviroment.
One thing i like about MMOs is that they aren't platform games.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Me too, actually.
Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
Yeah, but just like crafting this is really additional content just for people who like this type of content, not something you must do.
It is not like you get that great reward for it either, this is stuff you will do for the fun of it.
Lucky for us that this is all purely optional content, isn't it?
You know, I really wish we could pick traits in real life. Let's say every birthday after I'm five years old, I get a point to invest in something cool, or a talent, or just
my "attributes". As well as that, every birthday at midnight my fighting skills just
increase magically, regardless of other factors.
Each traits cost five points?
By the time I turned thirty I'd have learnt how to play the piano two-handed with my eyes shut, memorise every single element, compound and their various properties on the periodic table, gained the ability to photographically recall facts and memories, and attained a god-like level of hand-to-hand combat skill.
And perhaps, just perhaps, I would have reached the intelligence of the remarkably wise Plinkplonk.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
Well that raises questions. How much we'll be missing? What if most guilds happens to love that? By the replies this seems most likely.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
In that case you just play in a guild that doesn´t like them. The only reason for anyone not wanting to do them to still feel forced is if a gear with really cool appearence is the reward for one of those events and frankly have i done pretty boring stuff in games for gear. Here the stats really wont be what forces you to get it.
I fear that there always will be some content in MMOs that some people don´t like but still feel forced to do, but with these things I think it will be pretty rare. Holding the guilds keep in the mists will annoy PvE fans more than this will be a problem for people who hate tombraiding.
Well, the thing I like the most about GW2's design philosophy is that pretty much everything is "optional". If you don't like PvP, you don't have to do it. If you don't like instanced dungeons, you don't have to do them etc... Imo they're trying to cram as many different gametypes into a mmorpg framework with only your character being the connecting element (and the game setting itself...)
Ideally, each of those gametypes should be rich and fulfilling enough to be worth the price of the box. Some people, me included, would pay the box price just for WvW... if it fullfills its promise. Whether ANet will manage to achieve this lofty goal of 4+ games for the price of one, remains to be seen. (e-sport PvP, world vs world, "classical" exploration mmo, instanced coorpg)
As for the guild concern.. well you can be a member of many guilds, so if one of them decides to go exploring jumping puzzles you can excuse yourself and go off WvW-ing with another guild for the duration... At the moment the guild system seems to imply that you won't be able to max out all guild perks so you'll almost certainly have specialist guilds - explorer's guild, dungeoneering guild, open world dragon-hunting guild, wvw and crafters guilds...
You can. Try to learn a different language, take a survival course or read a book about something you want to learn.
Even in MMOs traits are not automatic, you need to get XP to gain traits. IRL you need those XP in the thing you want to improve, but the principle is the same.
I know a lot about history, can use a sword and survive in the woods for a while. I am an excellent shot, can cook a bit and are good with computers and machines. I dumped my mathematics skill though.
Everybody gets traits as they pass through life and there are actaully ways to raise your IQ and strenght if you are willing to put work into it. Sometimes you gain abilities by doing stuff that is surprising, a study shows that older (60+ that is) mmo players have a lot better memory than other seniors.
But if you want combat skills you need to gain them the hard way. Mine is from the airforce together with playing airsoft, and the swordfencing is coming from SCA. I am hardly a high level warrior though.
This press beta article touches on hidden exploration content a bit, worth the read overall:
http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/02/27/gw2-press-beta-the-richest-pve-experience-part-2/#more-9735
The maps are littered with things hidden in the environment. What you might find is varied. It might be a skill point challenge, a mini-dungeon, a chest, an achievment, a vendor or a trigger for a Dynamic Event. Some of these are reached by jumping puzzles, some by more traditional puzzles, some are linked to the current state of a Dynamic Event, but most are just interesting places you may find off the beaten path, with no jumping skills required.
In the article I linked, the author mentions that one Meta-event actually can result in an entrance to a non-instanced mini-dungeon to open up when the event is in a particular state. So, not only are some hidden places not even available to be found unles certain events are at certain stages, but any mini-dungeons you find are non-instanced, which should make the instancing minimalists happy.
This is all well above and beyond various examples of explorers rewards found in most other games that even bother.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
One thing I like about GW2 is that its changing the way we look at MMOs.
the point should also be made that there's not a single boss in a dungeon which isn't pretty much a platformer's boss. they run around getting angrier as they die and faster and you can almost hear the pipipipipip music in the background.
you might say they're bringing the platformer's map back to the platformer's boss?
Hmm..the same mechanic was used in swtor and rift the exact same way, probably will be used heavily in TSW too. Not something to get excited about but an interesting mechanic nonetheless.
The problem is that they were implemented so poorly in those two games that most of us dont care about them.
The collision detection in SWTOR made datacron finding more of an annoyance than a fun diversion. I fell through the world a number of times, or hit the invisible roof while jumping, or I couldnt climb up a small slope that was smaller than other slopes I could - just because it was the wrong way to get to a datacron.
There were some gems and nice locations, but for the most part it was just an annoyance that you had to do.
And the Rift version? The word 'boring' springs to mind.
Lets hope the majority of the GW2 platforming is like we can see in this video, which looks fun.
That's a good point. With this platform silliness and the scaling system i'm a bit disappointed. Will just have to wait and see.
I have no doubt the game will be worth buying it anyway.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Well I hope the jumping in this game isn't as annoying as SWTOR. Nothing worse than jumping right at the edge only to be forced to fall. The jumping is off in that game by a few miliseconds, but it annoyed me when trying to get some of the datacrons.
Unfortunately, character controls in very few MMOs are responsive enough to make platforming gameplay viable. Also unfortunately, not all MMOs feature movement controls like jumping and dodging.
Rarely if ever are gimicks like this successful, for two reasons:
1) They are almost always clunky versions of what might be fun in a game that focused on it. Examples: bowling in GTA4, horseshoes in Red Dead, datacrons in SWTOR, climbing the wood lattice in Rift for that pick, etc
2) They are immersion breaking. Sure, mini-games in Mario Party or something are fine, but in an RPG if these mechanics don't feel immersive then they simply are like "Oh, there is a jumping puzzle for no reason that I need to do to get some bonus"
But that is just my opinion of course. I wish an MMO would take itself seriously regarding lore and gameplay mechanics. Seems these mini-games are becoming more popular (Rift, SWTOR, and now GW2).
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
If dungeons full of monster is fine so should dungeons with traps and physical challenges.
If you really think about it only a madman would build any kind of dungeon.
And just what would you have all the 'madmen' do? With the thugs and drunk drivers?
I'm all for traps and physical challenges that make sense. In fact, traps and puzzles in my mind are amazingly underused in MMOs. But thoughtful traps and puzzles they need to be, in such a way that you actually feel like they belong there. If GW2 can do this in an immersive way I'm all for it. I'm just going by my experiences in other games that have implemented mini-games: all of them were failed attempts in my mind for the above two reasons...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I dunno.. frogger boss in Naxx was pretty epic.... as was the safety dance!