General: Soloers Don’t Destroy MMOs

SBFord

A lot of talk is bandied about by players who honestly believe that solo players somehow degrade the overall MMO experience and that they have too much effect on a game's development. In today's Player Perspectives, we take on those presumptions head on. See what we've got to say and then leave us a comment or two.

Maybe it’s the full moon or something, but I’m feeling ballsy today, so I’m going to challenge the all-group, all the time people to explain themselves to me, or at least to re-examine their preconceptions. You know who you are! Because you know what? I’m primarily a soloer (and I’ve explained why before), and I’ve had about enough of my playstyle being blamed for all the ills in MMO design today. This issue has become as heated, divisive and entrenched as some political debates, and that’s just silly.

Read more of Isabelle Parsley's Player Perspectives: Soloers Don’t Destroy MMOs.

gainesvilleg

Yup absolutely 100% agree on every point.  In fact, you pretty much covered it all I don't have anything to add either...

Vesavius

Terrible article that accuses the readers that see things differently of 'bitching', as a cheap way of dismissing their perspective, when the whole thing was one long 'bitch'.

MMORPG.com used to be better then this kind of official troll piece.

WhiteLantern

Ooooooooh!     /popcorn

This'll get good.

 

1st point: Everything free. When I choose to play an MMO, I don't look forward to endgame. I don't participate in the "raid for gear to raid for better gear" mentallity. I do, however, expect to be able to earn gear that is suitable for my playstyle. BIS for me won't even come close to BIS for raiders or even regular groupers. And I'm fine with that.

2nd point: Casual gamer. I consider myself casual because I don't want to be associated with those who consider themselves Hardcore. I usually try to get an hour or two a night in playing my game of choice, but there are times when I'll get the rare 6 hour gaming session. I even took a week off of work for the launch of STO. And occasionally spend my vacation days to stay home and play all day. That is not casual.

3rd point: I agree with the writer. I like to group, but I don't like to be forced to group.

4th and 5th points: I'm not socially inept, but I am, at times, very anti-social. I really don't like people very much and there are those who say people like me shouldn't play online games. But there are times I come out of my shell and meet people and become friends. I've flown across the country to meet my guild leader before.

6th point: Honestly? I couldn't care less about those who say my playstyle interferes with theirs. If I'm going to plop down the monies to play a game, I'm going to play it on my terms. Just like everyone else. And, I'm not going to get upset when there is content that I can't do because it requires me to do something I don't enjoy.

KenFisher

I don't think the issue has ever been that soloers or casuals destroy games.  Both have existed in MMORPGs from the beginning.

 

The way I see it, the issue is that developers destroy games when they favor solo play to such a large degree that game mechanics for grouping and community interaction are contradicted, removed or gimped beyond usefulness.

bunnyhopper

Sorry but that just came across as a rant devoid of actual content.

 

For a start there are next to no "all group, all the time people" so I am unsure where you are getting that one from. Some believe that in order to attempt certain things in a social driven gaming genre you should have to group up, utilize alliances with other players. Not sure how that is all group, all the time but there you go.

 

Being able to solo in an mmorpg is great. Being able to solo everything to the detriment of community features in a game is far from great.

 

We don't want everything for free:

Great, the issue some have is when it becomes clear that some solo players do in fact want to be able to do everything solo. You should be able to attempt to do anything you want in a game on your tod. But making everything viable for a solo player, really? "Oh God I don't want a player driven economy, that means I have to rely on other crafters!!". "You mean a guild of players has an advantage in getting territory to me as a solo player, zomg that sucks!!!".

 

Casual players:

Your write up doesn't seem to tie in well with the solo player part but lets look at it anyway. Not everyone has 6 hours to play a game. True that. But then there are many, many, many gaming genres that provide instant access fun tailored to solo players. There are many games which tailor to instant fun, social games. Creating mmos that suit this audience does two things; first of all it creates what are in effect, piss poor versions of games that are already out. Secondly it means that all the investment money in the mmorpg genre is thrown at the casual crowd. That's fair enough, but then even the most blinkered person should see that kind of has a negative impact upon the longer term, sandbox style, social meta game based mmorpgs.

 

We Belong/We are not socially inept/We like grouping:

 

Er okay? Again the issue most have is the incessant demand to be able to do everything solo. Amazingly enough you could happily do your own thing in older mmos. It is the need to be able to have the uber gear and wtfpwn without any help from other people which is what some find somewhat strange in an mmo.

 

Breaking the game:

 

In an ideal world plenty of money would be thrown at complex, sandbox games and plenty of money would be thrown at catering to the ever increasing, pick up and play, go go go casual crowd. This isn't an ideal world and 99% of the money goes to the biggest cash cow. The market is homogenised due to the way the business works.

 

No one has an issue with solo players in mmos. No one wants grouping all the time. No one thinks solo players "don't belong". Some have an issue with the drive to make everything soloable to the detriment of social mechanics and complexity. Some have an issue with making everything about immediacy. Some see that the market is becoming more and more solo/casual. Whilst understandable, it's not exactly what everyone wants given there are already other gaming genres out there which already do a better job at catering to that crowd.

 

Ecoces

Here's the thing the "old school" players need to get through their head is the whole community thing will not go back to the way it was in EQ1, unless you are playing some Niche MMO by some indie company with 200 other players.

 

back in the days of EQ1 it was only played by "nerds", now with MMOs becoming more mainstream communities have become more guild oriented instead of you knowing everyone on the server.

 

sorry but the "forced grouping" faction of this forum is WRONG you cannot have a successful MMO without a heavy soloing element. now you can encourage grouping which is what MMOs should do but forcing people to be in a group to do ANYTHING will just make people unsubscribe.

haplo602

1. You are not a soloer since you group regularly when needed and don't cry to devs to make that group required quest solo friendly.

 

2. You are acusing dimissing the "solo player destroy mmo" view without arguments (see point 1).

 

3. casual =/= solo

 

Actualy the "solo player destroy mmo" view is correct. A solo player that understands the limits he can achieve and groups for those outside his limits is not a solo player. It's those soloers that whine all the time about this and that being out of their reach even tho they pay the same money as other people, those are destroying MMOs.

 

By your definition, I am a soloer. However I do not view myself like that. I do group and actively look for guilds, but play most of the time solo, because I cannot predict/plan my online/game time.

 

You have to make some clearer distinction in player groups that you are not doing now. Then maybe your view can be considered valid.

FrostWyrm

Its not the fact that they want to be able to solo that ruins games...

 

...its their insistance that EVERY game be centered around them thats screwing things up.

Thorbrand

Depends! I play MMOs to group with friends but today's MMOs are so solo friendly it is no longer fun to play them because in a group it is just boring running around. Without more immersive content and larger worlds you really can't have fun with a group in a themepark MMO today.

MMOs shouldn't have but 1% solo content!

Agnostic42

Each faction in the debate has a whiny little step-cousin who runs to the forums and bitches. Look at just about any forums and you will see. The hardcore players want faster content, even though they are the exact reason why all players have to dredge through the daily quests systems put into place to apease them.

I solo, I group, I am pretty damn casual now a days,  although at one time I led a 6 night a week raid guild in Vanilla WoW. When I solo, I try to do the hardest content possible "solo" and if I don't make it, too bad, rework the gear until you can. Not everyone bitches about why raid target X isn't killable solo, some actually understand why the system is in place.

I just don't understand why everyone has to break into factions here. Every side has a some valid points and some derived from pure bullshit. Each one needs to post their own "Facts" when the only fact is, if they tried to worry about themselves as much as they worry about what others are doing or the damage their actions are causing, this would be a much better genre.

Instead we have people who harrass, point fingers and basicly just prove how big a douche bag they are, because someone doesn't want to group, seriously? Oh no casuals ruined your game, boo hoo, maybe the game was developed for a more casual audiance and the raids were put in later to apeal to the hard core crowd, that would mean you ruined the casuals game.

 

 

 

xenogias

What people need to realize is that no side is right or wrong. What we need to realize is we need to start holding companies to a higher standard. Unfortunatly most people arent mature enough to say "you know what, I dont agree with what this company is doing so I wont support them". Most people say "Eh, yea thats not right but I am enjoying myself so who cares".

 

As far as the solo player goes I am an oldschool player but as I have gotten older I prefer to solo alot more often. I still raid/group pretty often but when leveling yea, I prefer to spend more time soloing.

I also think alot of the problem for solo players is at endgame its not that they fell they have to have the best gear. They just dont want to look like a clown or be stuck in pretty "dull" looking entry level gear. I think most soloers would be happy with a set of gear that looks cool even if it says "Hey look at me I'm a soloer". Last I checked nothing in the MMO rulebook said that soloers couldnt have thier own set of cool looking gear. Sure everyone would have it but you really think raiders arent going to show off thier raid gear instead?

Shayde

Best article I've ever read on MMORPG.com. Well done and I agree 100%.

Drakxii

The Quiet soloer who sometimes groups and pvp don't ruin MMOs, but the whine soloer who wants to be able to get everything in the game by soloing 1-3 hours a day totally ruins MMOs if the de...  company hire ups listen to them. 

jerkbeast

This article is pointless. You act as if you speak for all solo players, but I've played with enough solo players in mmo's, and especially dungeon finder to know that you don't. you should replace "solo players" with "I"

RefMinor

The problem isn't that people like to solo, I have played sandbox games both solo and part of a group, also themepark games solo and as part of a group, but when the games are changed so all content is doable by solo players then that is a step backwards. In a sandbox world you need to find a role that is suitable for your chosen style of play, in a themepark there needs to be enough solo Rollercoasters alongside the group Rubber Dinghy Rapids. If the game companies just make everything possible by soloing then that demeans their product.

mxmissile

save some cash...

forced grouping < IRC

CericX

This is just a rant I was tricked into reading. FOR SHAME!

ignore_me

This article is constructive because it basically says: Content is broken, not player base.

-Content can be fixed.

-Player base is not easily or predictably manipulated.

Sure you can design the content to appeal to certain types, but posts repeatedly make the point that oversimplifying players into one category is not accurate so the content has to be multi-dimensional.

Also, there are unintended consequences that seem to always occur when changes are made to appeal to one demographic of MMOer.

The Blamethrower always has a full tank, and soloers are an easy target because they don't travel in herds.

I'm not a solo player btw

toddze

I dont know how you can write that article with a straight face. 

The MMO genre has degraded to an online rpg's with multiplayer options. They are played exactly like you would play a single player RPG. (for this argument I am not refering to single player vs multiplaer when i say single player rpg) What do you do when you buy a new single player RPG ? you play it for a few month then your looking for the next game. That type of play is cancerous for an MMORPG. But then again devs are not stupid so their development of the games are cheepened and streamlined, for that type of play.

I mostly blame Single player RPG games for the desruction of MMO's. 10-15 years ago I thought some would have evolved to online rpg's to fill the market. But not the de-evolution of MMO's.

IMO MMO's are about choices/option. Kind of like waking up out of bed on a nice saturday morning, and saying what am I going to do today, where am I going today. Options are gone in MMO's these days, your on a nice little rollercoaster everything is planned and laid out in a nice little path end game is nice and structured raid t1, then t2 etc etc etc.

Now onto solo'ers. They destroy the community. which was a major feature of an MMO. I remember playing FFXI and in XP groups having to stay and play extra maybe even for hours while my replacement got there to fill my spot, or while you look for a replacement. You didnt just want to say ok im done and bail on the group. You sure as hell didnt want to you name being cast in a negative light. As a playeer in XI you knew who the self centered people were. Word got around. Those people had harder times getting groups, and rightfully so. 

Now in MMO's if you group for whatever reason. once people get theirs (whatever it is) they just drop group and run along. its sad. I could write a small novel on this subject but ill leave it alone, i just want to quote something from the article and reply to it. really quickly.

"My car is a multi-passenger vehicle, but that doesn’t mean I can’t drive it unless I have someone else in there with me"

I like the analogy but this is the problem with MMORPG's everything is scaled down now. In auto terms MMORPG's are more like a bus, sure you can drive a bus around by yourself but its awfull damn stupid.

Kyleran

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

 

No one has an issue with solo players in mmos. No one wants grouping all the time. No one thinks solo players "don't belong". Some have an issue with the drive to make everything soloable to the detriment of social mechanics and complexity. Some have an issue with making everything about immediacy. Some see that the market is becoming more and more solo/casual. Whilst understandable, it's not exactly what everyone wants given there are already other gaming genres out there which already do a better job at catering to that crowd.

 

This is how I feel.  I enjoy soloing as much as the next player, but when developers change the game mechanics, basically tossing out much of what made the earlier, more group centric titles more fun (for me) then I get a bit cranky about the whole affair.

I will say, from the OP, this paragraph really summarized how I feel about the current state of most MMORPG's.

"Upgrading my gear now and then is fine, but doing it over and over every 6 months? In group content that gets ever more anally retentive in an effort to keep me challenged without having to actually design anything challenging? So that I have to tango out of the fire but tango into the blue mist while making sure that I don’t move till the light goes green? That’s not fun, that’s Simon says with a bit of musical chairs and timing issues thrown in."

This is so true, I feel like most MMO's end game is nothing more than a big espisode of "Dancing with the Stars" and I was done with that back in my Vanilla WOW days.

 

dannydeuce

I honestly don't think you are what most people label as a "soloer".  The article is fine and has some valid points...but again, you are actually not a "soloer" in my eyes.  A "soloer" to me is someone that plays the game as a single person game all the time.  This person wants all the rewards that a "grouper" gets at 1/2 the effort (yes it takes time to gather groups, setup strategies, etc etc).  Additionally, a "soloer" should understand that grouping should always offer better rewards in an MMO because that content SHOULD be harder to tackle and nearly impossible to solo.

FrostWyrm

Originally posted by Ecoces

Here's the thing the "old school" players need to get through their head is the whole community thing will not go back to the way it was in EQ1, unless you are playing some Niche MMO by some indie company with 200 other players.

 

back in the days of EQ1 it was only played by "nerds", now with MMOs becoming more mainstream communities have become more guild oriented instead of you knowing everyone on the server.

 

sorry but the "forced grouping" faction of this forum is WRONG you cannot have a successful MMO without a heavy soloing element. now you can encourage grouping which is what MMOs should do but forcing people to be in a group to do ANYTHING will just make people unsubscribe.

Your abundance of misinformation is truly astounding.

 

karter64

Personally I think the loot /reward design of modern games is why I rarely group anymore. 

Back in Asheron's Call I used to group all the time. But there the groups were usually about fun and having a good time playing together. But rarely was any quest or boss drops worth anything beyond bragging rights or decoration. All the good gear came from random loot drops.

Since WoW came out all the good gear comes from specific bosses, which require grouping in most cases. With that came a paradigm shift from "let's group and have fun" to "you can only group with us if you have this much health, this high of equipment level and use this rotation, and God save your soul if you pull the wrong mob." Groups have ceased being fun and as such I find my own company more enjoyable.

Just my opinion, but if you want to bring back grouping, make it fun again by removing the loot connection.

kalinis

I actually spend most of my time in mmo's soloing or playing with my gf, I do do dungeons, ill raid , and i will time to time actually do some pvp. 

The fact is i spend 85 pct of the time im not playing with gf playing on my own i think that makes me a solo player,

A person who spends most of there time soloing is a solo player, IM dont get this if u group at all u arent a solo player because i am. 

i talk to my guild i talk to groups when i group, The truth is most solo players i come across don't care about the loot grind they perfer to make alts. im like that myself, Ill do the gear grind because i enjoy the raids or stuff but i dont do them for gear

The biggest issue i have is that peole dismiss this article when it hits the nail on the head. Truth is grouping thats forced and u cant go on without it keeps most people from playing at all. forced grouping was a bad design and as such had to go.

Getting rid of forced grouping didn't make mmo's worse, Also most fo the people who care about loot are so called hard core group players who dont want anyone who solo's or doesnt wanna raid 10 hrs a day 7 days a week getting any gear. 

Truth is the so called hard core are to busy looking down there noises are everyoen else that when the so called casual can actualy get gear they get all bent out of shape about it.

adam_nox

Dumb article.  CoH doesn't force grouping, but for many years people grouped all the time, because it was fun.

If you are a soloer, that means you don't like grouping, so don't write a dumb article telling us that you like grouping and are a 'soloer', it doesn't work that way. 

I don't blame soloers, I blame games that don't entice grouping effectively.  There's no point in a monthly fee or even playing online if you aren't grouping regularly. Solo some, sure, but no groups at all makes the whole genre pointless.

If that's not breaking the game, what is?