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Developers have gone from one extreme(EQ1/FF) to the other(WoW/SWTOR) in that the leveling process is almost entirely a solo endeavor. Grouping with friends while leveling is now a punishment in many games outside of dungeons. This gives the impression to many who like to group that they are destroying MMO's. I am actually suprised that we have not had a MMO thats end game is solo as well. Raid for 1
And I am talking about doing the quest in WoW to the main story line in STWOR as examples then having the entire end game as forced grouping anyway. Developers have even made it so you almost hate seeing other players in the game world if you are on a gather 100 of these quest fighting others over the spawning rocks you need to gather, or waiting in line to kill some named hoping you will not get kill stolen when it is your "turn", spamming target waiting to blast mobs the instant they spawn. And oh by the way your group does not get credit for this stuff you need to do it 5 seperate times if you are with your friends.
With the heavy use of instancing in todays games you would have figured a company would have made a game to satisfy both the solo players and the few of us left it seems that want to play with 4-5 friends the entire game not just at the "end". WIth the tech today there is no reason you could not have a solo instanced zone and a group instanced zone using the same content just scaling it. This would make both camps happy but doing something like this would make to much sense and the one thing many of us can agree on is that this is very much lacking in todays developers.
Worlds where no one says a single word , that is what is common in MMO's today..If you do not have to say ANYTHING then NOTHING will be said...
-i agree 100%. possibly, one of the problems is that everyone is expected to learn everything from 3rd party websites and if you actually ask a question in-game, there are some who just call you lazy, or a bad player for not using these 3rd party websites (or even the official, of course). i for one, enjoy the idea of learning from the community, not out of laziness, but because i feel more connected with my MMO community when they are willing to share knowledge, rather than consider it bad game behaviour to 'actually talk' about the game. to hell with 3rd party websites. i would rather learn my build through trial and error, and the sometimes mocking help from a more experienced player. -
I'd say ...Give this genre a NEW name, so the players that longs for a real MMORPG can stop looking in all the wrong places.
- i have been thinking this ever since i started reading these forums-
I like to think that ...All players want challenge in their games, and if the gameplay is GREAT they WILL overcome obstacles such as finding or beiing in a group ..
HArdcore singleplayer games released in 2011 , Demon Souls etc proves this theory, If Bethsoft would have made Skyrim like Demon Souls not many would have liked it, because the GAMEPLAY is not that great from the beginning.
Sure It captures you in the beginning , It has a breathtaking world and so on but that feeling doesn't last that long for most of us, after that..It has to have GREAT gameplay, and well..The gameplay in Skyrim is not that great after you spent your first 20-40 hours in that game, you just want to hurry to the end..
Ohh yes..I know that there is players in that game with 200-400 Hours etc, but those players already belongs in the chategorie that would love a Skyrim with better harder gameplay even more...
This is just a theory, my theory, I can be all wrong ofcourse
i love SKyrim immensly, but i agree that the combat is a tad bit tedious. however, other things keep me playing the combat. i agree that a DE style of difficulty added with a Skyrim world would be amazing.
Solo players destroy mmoprgs because mmo developer create content for them which they shouldnt those games are meant to be played with other ppl. If you want solo content go back to offline rpgs.
That is quite a rant, but it's got us discussing stuff, and that is point of fourms in general (along with informaion), so here here.
I solo in a lot of games, group when I feel like it. However, in my long term games, Eve, WoW, SWG, etc, I am always guilded and group every chance I get. The games I pick up for a month or two I usually don't bother joining a guild or trying to get into a ton of groups. I usually know when I wont stick with a game. I don't want to waste some guild's time or resources if I don't plan on staying long.
If an MMO is designed properly, it can support both solo and group play. Games that force you to group to progress at all, not just end game but 'leveling', while seemingly make sense considering it's an online game, are not practical in todays gaming world imo. There are such of wide variety of people who participate in online gaming nowadays, it makes sense to try to at least somewhat accomadate groupers and soloers.
Too much solo content is ofc bad as well. Why pay a sub fee for a game filled with solo content? I'd rather just play a single player game and not have to deal with some of the annoyances that come with online gaming. Good developers can find ways to make both sides happy.
I don't think the issue has ever been that soloers or casuals destroy games. Both have existed in MMORPGs from the beginning.
The way I see it, the issue is that developers destroy games when they favor solo play to such a large degree that game mechanics for grouping and community interaction are contradicted, removed or gimped beyond usefulness.
Bingo. Nailed it. In a mere three lines of text, no less.
With all due respect, Isabelle, through all your ranting in that article you demonstrated one thing to me above all else. You don't seem to actually understand the real issue.
You're complaining about all these things that, while common topics of debate, ultimately have nothing to do with how and why those of us who do believe that the focus on soloing has ruined the genre. It's the overwhelming focus on soloing that's overtaken MMO design that is at issue.
While players will whine and complain all day about anything and everything that isn't exactly as they want it, they can't directly change how the game is designed or played. The Developers are the ones actually making those decisions, granted, based on the feedback (whining and complaining) of players.
I would say the things you argue against are more the result of the increasing focus on solo-friendly gameplay, than they are the cause of it. The more the soloers and casuals are given, the more they demand.
I do want to address at least part of your rant, however, because the irony is too much to pass up.
You go into the common territory of making an argument about "those who started playing 10 or 15 years ago now have kids", etc.
And? Your point would be ...?
Are you claiming that, because you have a job and children and a social life, that your gaming preferences are superior to others?
Do you believe those who haven't taken on those responsibilities yet are less deserving of an experience they would thoroughly enjoy, one that fills their time with epic, long-term content instead of "get it done in an hour or less" bite-sized content, simply because "they haven't grown up yet", like you?
What, exactly, is your point in making that argument, Isabelle?
What was that you were saying about how all pro-soloers don't have a sense of entitlement? Congratulations. You just planted yourself firmly in the category of those who do. It doesn't have to do with 'wanting things easy'. "Growing up and taking on more responsibility" does not entitle you to special treatment because you choose to continue playing games that are known to be heavily time-consuming.
While we're on the topic, who's this "we" you speak of? I thought you were writing a column about your thoughts on the situation? So where does this "we" come into it? Are you committing the error of presuming to represent or speak for others?
I fit into the category you describe quite squarely. I'm an adult, have a full-time job, myriad responsibilities, and don't have hours and hours to play MMOs anymore either. Regardless, when I do play, I still prefer a stronger focus on community, dependence on other players and group activities. I know there are others around here (whom may speak for themselves) who do as well.
Based on the "not as much time" bit of your rant, I'm going to guess you value your MMO experiences based on how much you're able to achieve in what limited time you have to play. Achievements might be getting a level or two, finishing a quest line, acquiring some new gear, etc. Would my guess be correct?
Assuming it is, and I know it is for others who've said as much, that's where I fundamentally differ from you. I value my time in a game based on how much fun I had doing whatever it was I did for that time. I don't care if it's sitting in one spot, chatting with guild-mates, xp'ing for a bit but not leveling-up, or giving a dungeon a go and failing. If I had fun in the process, then it was time well-spent. I value the experience of playing the game, not "how much did I accomplish while playing it". I don't care if I didn't get that next level, because leveling up isn't my specific "goal". Logging in and having fun doing "whatever" I end up doing, preferably involving other players.
To put it another way, I'm about enjoying the Journey. You seem to be about reaching the Destination.
Anyway, it'd be quite easy to pick apart and refute every argument you've made in your rant. However, I'm sure others will have done a fine job of it already. For another, my stomach is screaming at me to feed it right now.
To conclude, you should really try to actually understand the point-of-view you're ranting against before you start ranting against it. Address the cause, not the symptoms.
Completely agree with the OP. I never had any problem creating a friendslist in MMO's that have a lot of solo content. Grouping for the groupcontent was never a problem for me. You just have to take into account that those other players are not playing the game for just you to group with. You cant just expect them to be ready for you at any moment.
But for some reason the players that prefer forced grouping often seem to have trouble with creating their own groups. Maybe it is them who are social awkward because they are so dependant on being able to join groups that others create for them.
@Otomax, do you realise how selfish that sounds? Everyone should cater to your playstyle or just gtfo? If you have trouble finding groups in modern MMORPG's, you might want to look at yourself for how you go about it.
I just have to pipe in and say..This is one of those highly predictable topics that always produces an equally highly predictable reaction from the community. Aren't there already a kazillion (real number) duplicate threads floating around on every game out there? Congrats on adding one more to the pile.
Of course Soloers don't "destroy" MMOs, but they have certainly influenced things in a way that have made developers make their games far more easier and streamlined as to cater to solo players. Of that I have no doubt, it's simply the result of appealing to the mainstream world.
When I feel liking soloing, I do solo quests or run solo skirmishes.
When I feel like grouping I do, and theres plenty of options.
Some games have the breadth to cover both, and some even do it well.
The other games will just fade away.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
forced grouping IS dead and any AAA MMORPG that tries to force grouping will be doomed to be a niche game.
niche game =/= dead game
And what's wrong with niche games, exactly, so long as there are those who enjoy playing them?
You're not about to make the classic mistake of claiming that if a game doesn't have a massive amount of players, and is "only niche", that it's a failure, as though MMORPGs are some kind of popularity contest, are you?
Terrible article that accuses the readers that see things differently of 'bitching', as a cheap way of dismissing their perspective, when the whole thing was one long 'bitch'.
MMORPG.com used to be better then this kind of official troll piece.
Your wrong this is a clear rebuttle to the Clique mentality of the Groupie Group.
I did not read the whole article. What I did read was full of assumptions and acted as though it spoke from a moral high ground. Solo players don't break MMORPG's, they just leave quicker than people who play with friends. I solo a lot and I can tell you when a friend does try a new MMORPG with me, I stick it out much longer. Especially if they are enthusiastic about it. If your base design is good, then people will stick around and so will there friends. It comes down to design.
It doesn't hurt for a game to have the mechanics in place to encourage grouping. Public quests were a great example put forth by Warhammer Online and others are refining the idea. A robust guild system is also a good idea, one that rewards players for being in an established guild. Warhammer Online did that as well, it just needs to be done better.
I don't have a problem with soloers in general. It's the ones who whine that the same prizes available to those who group up should be available in solo play that strike me as extremely annoying and illogical. This is an MMORPG, people. And while that doesn't mean that people should always group up all the time, on the other hand it also doesn't mean that you should be able to get everything you want playing by yourself all the time. These games are built for encouraging group play. If you want to only play solo and still get all the rewards, go play a nice RPG.
I have to agree things like forced grouping such as how you saw in the past prior to wow or even EQ2 is a faulty concept really, mostly since it links a player's abbility to enjoy a game (which they paid for the enjoyment of playing for said enjoyment.) that if you cann't find a group in a timely fashion you are out of luck for enjoying the game that session. Yet in the same line of thought is the forced soloing game play that makes it vary hard for some player (mostly those that are of a different mentality than your more mainstream crowd mind you.) to enjoy the content, yet in this same mentality a game with heavy solo content usaged can still be played in a group (at a lower threshold of difficulty mind you.). To me one of the best things i think devs should do is make many of their zones tiered in ways, with the primary or soloer tier that has a toned down difficulty for those with a more casual or solo playstyle, but then also a group/secondary tier of the zones where it was much more group or tactics oriention to it. The group content tier of zones could be like hwo in older games you had elite mobs that populated a portion of the mab, but yet to me it should be more then merely buffing the mobs, such as actually building the areas to have the mobs use tactics in groups or otherwise.
Though i will say that it is not completely the soloer mentality that has torn apart alot of the longevty of mmos trully, but the mentality of reaching the end-game to start playing the actual mmo which has. The speed at which you progress thru a mmo or even a game is quite important as it either limits or expands the enjoyment of the game trully. I could careless if the solo player or group player gets to end game faster, most of all if it takes weeks or afew months to do so. Also the issue of quicker progression that focuses on getting to end game leaves the devs with less time to create the next wave of content in a polished manner, also making the content patches smaller with less to them that is brought forth with each of them. I would rather spend months to a year leveling, and then get a large content patch that is largely 3/4th the size of the game at launch, then get patches that are one or two zones with rehashed content in them. I mean think of it like this if you have two mmos made by the same company as well as team, one mmo you get to end game in under two months, while in the other it takes upwards of 6 months to a year you are talking about tripling the time a dev team has to produce a polished content patch really. For myself i say we need the focus of the game brought away from end game or atleast the time it takes to reach end game extended, since this would actually benefit both the gamers as well as company as well. We as players would get better or even larger content patches that are more polished, and the company would have many more months of sub time too.
Why do all the soloers herd to a topic and collectively whine, or go to a game forum and collectively whine, all in all collectively whine.
Yet.
They don't play a MMO to be apart of the mulitplayer aspect?
Solo content should end within the first third of a game, and then the creatures of the world should be too dangerous to take on alone.
I know Megaman never got his hand freakin' held so much and all he had was a dog with a spring on his back at best.
And people don't whine about grouping?
I liked eq's need for groups, but even in that game people could solo. The dumbest thing an MMORPG have is to force groups for things that shouldn't need groups...
Like 6 players to kill a sheep.... a drake sure.... but a sheep?
The solution is rather simple I think. Just have content for both kind of play styles. I like to solo stuff once in a while, but as soon as I am able to hit the dungeons I will PuG my way up to max level and continue doing so. Why? Because I play for the social experience and doing stuff together is just fun.
Of course, you also get some bad groups and players once in a while, but nothing is perfect, right? I like being part of a team and overcoming challenges together. I hate the fact that soloing has become so much more profitable than grouping, so that you are actually gimping yourself when you invite another player to do quests and stuff.
This kind of trend needs to go imo, and hopefully future games will have content made for both playstyles without sacrificing the one for the other.
Why do all the soloers herd to a topic and collectively whine, or go to a game forum and collectively whine, all in all collectively whine.
Yet.
They don't play a MMO to be apart of the mulitplayer aspect?
Solo content should end within the first third of a game, and then the creatures of the world should be too dangerous to take on alone.
I know Megaman never got his hand freakin' held so much and all he had was a dog with a spring on his back at best.
Please do enlighten up as to how playing a game which you can be surrounded by players (weither you are in group with them or not.) is not playing a multi-player game or aspect. Now where in tthe definition of multiplayer does it say you have to be grouped or playing co-up with someone to be playing a multiplayer game. Also everyone from groupers, soloers, pvper, pveers all whine in groups. There are many different ways of playing a game in a multiplayer aspect which ranges from playing pvp (you are playing in a VS concept that can be done in a massive battle that you might be playing with others around you or just solo along side them.), you might be competeing with other players for mats or nods (that is another pvp type of activity really in that you are interacting with other players in the enviroment.), and you have guild activities that are also multiplayer activities as well. So where is this fact that the modern mmos are not being layed in a multiplayer aspect of play trully? I can tell you i had many time been involved in grouped or ungrouped activities with several other players that ranged from pvping, gathering (me and several others fought over nodes, mobs, and such), rare huntering (anyone saying that when hunting for rares was not in someways a solo/multiplayer experince has never been jumped by five or ten guys when they spawn and needed to request assstance.). I find people that whine about games being too solo focus ust want to force other gamers to play with them by forcing grouping, since they cann't get groups otherwise (either their pour players, arrogent, selfish, pig headed, rude, childish, or just a fun leech.). Even in games where soloing was supposed to be far better for leveling i could get groups quite easy, and have blast in them, but we grouped not out of need to but for the fun of each others company. SO maybe all of you out there that have issues finding groups or invites really need to look somewhere else first.
You make me laugh only a third of the game that players have paided for, and are subed to should be able to be played solo regardless if the paying player wishes to or not? There is a differnce between getting your hand held in a game (hell most of the hardest games in game history were solo games), and a game being have a ample supply of solo content. It should always be viable option to solo in a game (with content that built around that factor.), as much as it is viable option to group in a game (with the same factor of content being built around that desire.). Even in the real world (this is a breathing world that mmo world were trying to mimic trully.) you do not have to be social or even make friends to ennjoy and live your life, but doing so opens more options as well as factors to you, but living without such friends does the same honestly. That is one thigns i think should be done is to make much of the content equally spread between group as well as solo content, but then make it that there is alot fo content that is exclusive to either group or solo players with rewards that are solely gained from that content.
The other funny thing is that most mmo players i know who no longer group up outside of guild/friend groups do so because of the elitist pricks and terrible players that exist in the world, and i cann't blame them in that as they are paying for a an enjoyable experince. Why should they have to relinquish their enjoyment to cater to other player's enjoyment, and mosot likely end up hating the gaming experince of that session trully. People are always saying how players should learned to play as their inability to play well costs others time in playing a game they pay to enjoy, but then some of these players complain that players refuse to group with them forcing them to solo or change their playstyle reducing their own enjoyment.
Why do all the soloers herd to a topic and collectively whine, or go to a game forum and collectively whine, all in all collectively whine.
Yet.
They don't play a MMO to be apart of the mulitplayer aspect?
Solo content should end within the first third of a game, and then the creatures of the world should be too dangerous to take on alone.
I know Megaman never got his hand freakin' held so much and all he had was a dog with a spring on his back at best.
And people don't whine about grouping?
I liked eq's need for groups, but even in that game people could solo. The dumbest thing an MMORPG have is to force groups for things that shouldn't need groups...
Like 6 players to kill a sheep.... a drake sure.... but a sheep?
have to agree here with how what you are fighting should make sense to if you need a group to fight it. I mean a goblin, kobolt, beasts are all relatively weak, stupid as well as easy to fight alone, but in a massive group they are a formitable oppenent for any player or group. Yet some other things should require groups like golems, ,massive monsters (such as dragons, giants, dinosaurs.) as it makes sense fo them based on their size as well as danger. Yet also your character is supposed to be gaining in power as you level/progress so why is it that you would never seem to actually grow stronger merely gaining just enouph strength to take on that next area's mobs. By that way of thinking lets jsut throw away all of the mob designs leaving only the sheep mob, and then just raise it's level to where t is always a challlenge to fight regardless of what you have at that time.
I say created zones that are geared towards content for either solo or group play, with the mobs being approiate to the style of play used. If you are dong group content you might be raiding a castle, a platue that is infested with dragonkin, or even high up in the mountains where you fight powerful mobs as well as take enviromental damage as well (this would make soloing impossible as a healer would be crusshed by the mobs, tankers would be grinded down by the constent damage, dps would explode from the heavy hits of the creatures making a group needed.). Then you could make a valley or succh that is populated by lesser creatures that are less threatening to you, but are still a threat to the people within the valley.
Solo has a negative impact on MMO's. Why? The developers have to focus more effort on these 'soloers' that could be spent working on the second letter of MMO. If 'soloers' want to play 'solo', they should be doing what 'soloers' have been doing for a long time now. Single Player gaming. That's what it was made for.
Why waste resources catering to a batch of whiners (and oh yes, do the Soloers ever whine... and demand... etc) that constantly demand that they be catered for, when you could be building what an MMO exists for: Multiplayer content. The genre isn't called Massively Multiplayer Online for no reason. Since solo became a huge deal in most MMO's, they degenerated in to Single Player with online chat games. With so much focus on the 'solo' aspects of modern MMO's, it isn't a surprise that the group play has degenerated in to piles of dung. I honestly see the industry as an old man, attached to my back, waving an old fishing rod over my head, with something delicious attached to the hook. I blame 'solo' for this.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
I would be best described as a casual solo player... have one character around lvl 50 and have never joined a guild and have had only one or two groups while playing up to this level... Join a guild? no thanks don't need the drama queen fest... If they didn't have solo stuff to do, then I wouldn't pay my subscription fee.. If I wanted to 'group' I would just fire up mIRC... I have been in exactly one raid since playing at the launch of EQ1.
I am not asking for extra perks because I solo... just the basic content to level my character and not have to group with a bunch of whiny loot whores. I have soloed in every MMO I have played from EQ1 onwards... any MMO that ignores people like myself won't be getting my money
Comments
Please respond to the actual content of the article and not flame the writer. We will always have content that someone doesn't agree with and that is fine if it's presented in a civil manner.
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Developers have gone from one extreme(EQ1/FF) to the other(WoW/SWTOR) in that the leveling process is almost entirely a solo endeavor. Grouping with friends while leveling is now a punishment in many games outside of dungeons. This gives the impression to many who like to group that they are destroying MMO's. I am actually suprised that we have not had a MMO thats end game is solo as well. Raid for 1
And I am talking about doing the quest in WoW to the main story line in STWOR as examples then having the entire end game as forced grouping anyway. Developers have even made it so you almost hate seeing other players in the game world if you are on a gather 100 of these quest fighting others over the spawning rocks you need to gather, or waiting in line to kill some named hoping you will not get kill stolen when it is your "turn", spamming target waiting to blast mobs the instant they spawn. And oh by the way your group does not get credit for this stuff you need to do it 5 seperate times if you are with your friends.
With the heavy use of instancing in todays games you would have figured a company would have made a game to satisfy both the solo players and the few of us left it seems that want to play with 4-5 friends the entire game not just at the "end". WIth the tech today there is no reason you could not have a solo instanced zone and a group instanced zone using the same content just scaling it. This would make both camps happy but doing something like this would make to much sense and the one thing many of us can agree on is that this is very much lacking in todays developers.
Sooo making whole gameworld soloable ,bar few instances is actually GOOD design?
Great to know I was wrong all the time. True eye opener
/sarcasm
Solo players destroy mmoprgs because mmo developer create content for them which they shouldnt those games are meant to be played with other ppl. If you want solo content go back to offline rpgs.
That is quite a rant, but it's got us discussing stuff, and that is point of fourms in general (along with informaion), so here here.
I solo in a lot of games, group when I feel like it. However, in my long term games, Eve, WoW, SWG, etc, I am always guilded and group every chance I get. The games I pick up for a month or two I usually don't bother joining a guild or trying to get into a ton of groups. I usually know when I wont stick with a game. I don't want to waste some guild's time or resources if I don't plan on staying long.
If an MMO is designed properly, it can support both solo and group play. Games that force you to group to progress at all, not just end game but 'leveling', while seemingly make sense considering it's an online game, are not practical in todays gaming world imo. There are such of wide variety of people who participate in online gaming nowadays, it makes sense to try to at least somewhat accomadate groupers and soloers.
Too much solo content is ofc bad as well. Why pay a sub fee for a game filled with solo content? I'd rather just play a single player game and not have to deal with some of the annoyances that come with online gaming. Good developers can find ways to make both sides happy.
Bingo. Nailed it. In a mere three lines of text, no less.
With all due respect, Isabelle, through all your ranting in that article you demonstrated one thing to me above all else. You don't seem to actually understand the real issue.
You're complaining about all these things that, while common topics of debate, ultimately have nothing to do with how and why those of us who do believe that the focus on soloing has ruined the genre. It's the overwhelming focus on soloing that's overtaken MMO design that is at issue.
While players will whine and complain all day about anything and everything that isn't exactly as they want it, they can't directly change how the game is designed or played. The Developers are the ones actually making those decisions, granted, based on the feedback (whining and complaining) of players.
I would say the things you argue against are more the result of the increasing focus on solo-friendly gameplay, than they are the cause of it. The more the soloers and casuals are given, the more they demand.
I do want to address at least part of your rant, however, because the irony is too much to pass up.
You go into the common territory of making an argument about "those who started playing 10 or 15 years ago now have kids", etc.
And? Your point would be ...?
Are you claiming that, because you have a job and children and a social life, that your gaming preferences are superior to others?
Do you believe those who haven't taken on those responsibilities yet are less deserving of an experience they would thoroughly enjoy, one that fills their time with epic, long-term content instead of "get it done in an hour or less" bite-sized content, simply because "they haven't grown up yet", like you?
What, exactly, is your point in making that argument, Isabelle?
What was that you were saying about how all pro-soloers don't have a sense of entitlement? Congratulations. You just planted yourself firmly in the category of those who do. It doesn't have to do with 'wanting things easy'. "Growing up and taking on more responsibility" does not entitle you to special treatment because you choose to continue playing games that are known to be heavily time-consuming.
While we're on the topic, who's this "we" you speak of? I thought you were writing a column about your thoughts on the situation? So where does this "we" come into it? Are you committing the error of presuming to represent or speak for others?
I fit into the category you describe quite squarely. I'm an adult, have a full-time job, myriad responsibilities, and don't have hours and hours to play MMOs anymore either. Regardless, when I do play, I still prefer a stronger focus on community, dependence on other players and group activities. I know there are others around here (whom may speak for themselves) who do as well.
Based on the "not as much time" bit of your rant, I'm going to guess you value your MMO experiences based on how much you're able to achieve in what limited time you have to play. Achievements might be getting a level or two, finishing a quest line, acquiring some new gear, etc. Would my guess be correct?
Assuming it is, and I know it is for others who've said as much, that's where I fundamentally differ from you. I value my time in a game based on how much fun I had doing whatever it was I did for that time. I don't care if it's sitting in one spot, chatting with guild-mates, xp'ing for a bit but not leveling-up, or giving a dungeon a go and failing. If I had fun in the process, then it was time well-spent. I value the experience of playing the game, not "how much did I accomplish while playing it". I don't care if I didn't get that next level, because leveling up isn't my specific "goal". Logging in and having fun doing "whatever" I end up doing, preferably involving other players.
To put it another way, I'm about enjoying the Journey. You seem to be about reaching the Destination.
Anyway, it'd be quite easy to pick apart and refute every argument you've made in your rant. However, I'm sure others will have done a fine job of it already. For another, my stomach is screaming at me to feed it right now.
To conclude, you should really try to actually understand the point-of-view you're ranting against before you start ranting against it. Address the cause, not the symptoms.
Completely agree with the OP. I never had any problem creating a friendslist in MMO's that have a lot of solo content. Grouping for the groupcontent was never a problem for me. You just have to take into account that those other players are not playing the game for just you to group with. You cant just expect them to be ready for you at any moment.
But for some reason the players that prefer forced grouping often seem to have trouble with creating their own groups. Maybe it is them who are social awkward because they are so dependant on being able to join groups that others create for them.
@Otomax, do you realise how selfish that sounds? Everyone should cater to your playstyle or just gtfo? If you have trouble finding groups in modern MMORPG's, you might want to look at yourself for how you go about it.
I just have to pipe in and say..This is one of those highly predictable topics that always produces an equally highly predictable reaction from the community. Aren't there already a kazillion (real number) duplicate threads floating around on every game out there? Congrats on adding one more to the pile.
I'll just disagree with the whole article.
Of course Soloers don't "destroy" MMOs, but they have certainly influenced things in a way that have made developers make their games far more easier and streamlined as to cater to solo players. Of that I have no doubt, it's simply the result of appealing to the mainstream world.
Awesome article.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I play Lotro.
When I feel liking soloing, I do solo quests or run solo skirmishes.
When I feel like grouping I do, and theres plenty of options.
Some games have the breadth to cover both, and some even do it well.
The other games will just fade away.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
niche game =/= dead game
And what's wrong with niche games, exactly, so long as there are those who enjoy playing them?
You're not about to make the classic mistake of claiming that if a game doesn't have a massive amount of players, and is "only niche", that it's a failure, as though MMORPGs are some kind of popularity contest, are you?
I did not read the whole article. What I did read was full of assumptions and acted as though it spoke from a moral high ground. Solo players don't break MMORPG's, they just leave quicker than people who play with friends. I solo a lot and I can tell you when a friend does try a new MMORPG with me, I stick it out much longer. Especially if they are enthusiastic about it. If your base design is good, then people will stick around and so will there friends. It comes down to design.
It doesn't hurt for a game to have the mechanics in place to encourage grouping. Public quests were a great example put forth by Warhammer Online and others are refining the idea. A robust guild system is also a good idea, one that rewards players for being in an established guild. Warhammer Online did that as well, it just needs to be done better.
I don't have a problem with soloers in general. It's the ones who whine that the same prizes available to those who group up should be available in solo play that strike me as extremely annoying and illogical. This is an MMORPG, people. And while that doesn't mean that people should always group up all the time, on the other hand it also doesn't mean that you should be able to get everything you want playing by yourself all the time. These games are built for encouraging group play. If you want to only play solo and still get all the rewards, go play a nice RPG.
Why do all the soloers herd to a topic and collectively whine, or go to a game forum and collectively whine, all in all collectively whine.
Yet.
They don't play a MMO to be apart of the mulitplayer aspect?
Solo content should end within the first third of a game, and then the creatures of the world should be too dangerous to take on alone.
I know Megaman never got his hand freakin' held so much and all he had was a dog with a spring on his back at best.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I have to agree things like forced grouping such as how you saw in the past prior to wow or even EQ2 is a faulty concept really, mostly since it links a player's abbility to enjoy a game (which they paid for the enjoyment of playing for said enjoyment.) that if you cann't find a group in a timely fashion you are out of luck for enjoying the game that session. Yet in the same line of thought is the forced soloing game play that makes it vary hard for some player (mostly those that are of a different mentality than your more mainstream crowd mind you.) to enjoy the content, yet in this same mentality a game with heavy solo content usaged can still be played in a group (at a lower threshold of difficulty mind you.). To me one of the best things i think devs should do is make many of their zones tiered in ways, with the primary or soloer tier that has a toned down difficulty for those with a more casual or solo playstyle, but then also a group/secondary tier of the zones where it was much more group or tactics oriention to it. The group content tier of zones could be like hwo in older games you had elite mobs that populated a portion of the mab, but yet to me it should be more then merely buffing the mobs, such as actually building the areas to have the mobs use tactics in groups or otherwise.
Though i will say that it is not completely the soloer mentality that has torn apart alot of the longevty of mmos trully, but the mentality of reaching the end-game to start playing the actual mmo which has. The speed at which you progress thru a mmo or even a game is quite important as it either limits or expands the enjoyment of the game trully. I could careless if the solo player or group player gets to end game faster, most of all if it takes weeks or afew months to do so. Also the issue of quicker progression that focuses on getting to end game leaves the devs with less time to create the next wave of content in a polished manner, also making the content patches smaller with less to them that is brought forth with each of them. I would rather spend months to a year leveling, and then get a large content patch that is largely 3/4th the size of the game at launch, then get patches that are one or two zones with rehashed content in them. I mean think of it like this if you have two mmos made by the same company as well as team, one mmo you get to end game in under two months, while in the other it takes upwards of 6 months to a year you are talking about tripling the time a dev team has to produce a polished content patch really. For myself i say we need the focus of the game brought away from end game or atleast the time it takes to reach end game extended, since this would actually benefit both the gamers as well as company as well. We as players would get better or even larger content patches that are more polished, and the company would have many more months of sub time too.
And people don't whine about grouping?
I liked eq's need for groups, but even in that game people could solo. The dumbest thing an MMORPG have is to force groups for things that shouldn't need groups...
Like 6 players to kill a sheep.... a drake sure.... but a sheep?
The solution is rather simple I think. Just have content for both kind of play styles. I like to solo stuff once in a while, but as soon as I am able to hit the dungeons I will PuG my way up to max level and continue doing so. Why? Because I play for the social experience and doing stuff together is just fun.
Of course, you also get some bad groups and players once in a while, but nothing is perfect, right? I like being part of a team and overcoming challenges together. I hate the fact that soloing has become so much more profitable than grouping, so that you are actually gimping yourself when you invite another player to do quests and stuff.
This kind of trend needs to go imo, and hopefully future games will have content made for both playstyles without sacrificing the one for the other.
Please do enlighten up as to how playing a game which you can be surrounded by players (weither you are in group with them or not.) is not playing a multi-player game or aspect. Now where in tthe definition of multiplayer does it say you have to be grouped or playing co-up with someone to be playing a multiplayer game. Also everyone from groupers, soloers, pvper, pveers all whine in groups. There are many different ways of playing a game in a multiplayer aspect which ranges from playing pvp (you are playing in a VS concept that can be done in a massive battle that you might be playing with others around you or just solo along side them.), you might be competeing with other players for mats or nods (that is another pvp type of activity really in that you are interacting with other players in the enviroment.), and you have guild activities that are also multiplayer activities as well. So where is this fact that the modern mmos are not being layed in a multiplayer aspect of play trully? I can tell you i had many time been involved in grouped or ungrouped activities with several other players that ranged from pvping, gathering (me and several others fought over nodes, mobs, and such), rare huntering (anyone saying that when hunting for rares was not in someways a solo/multiplayer experince has never been jumped by five or ten guys when they spawn and needed to request assstance.). I find people that whine about games being too solo focus ust want to force other gamers to play with them by forcing grouping, since they cann't get groups otherwise (either their pour players, arrogent, selfish, pig headed, rude, childish, or just a fun leech.). Even in games where soloing was supposed to be far better for leveling i could get groups quite easy, and have blast in them, but we grouped not out of need to but for the fun of each others company. SO maybe all of you out there that have issues finding groups or invites really need to look somewhere else first.
You make me laugh only a third of the game that players have paided for, and are subed to should be able to be played solo regardless if the paying player wishes to or not? There is a differnce between getting your hand held in a game (hell most of the hardest games in game history were solo games), and a game being have a ample supply of solo content. It should always be viable option to solo in a game (with content that built around that factor.), as much as it is viable option to group in a game (with the same factor of content being built around that desire.). Even in the real world (this is a breathing world that mmo world were trying to mimic trully.) you do not have to be social or even make friends to ennjoy and live your life, but doing so opens more options as well as factors to you, but living without such friends does the same honestly. That is one thigns i think should be done is to make much of the content equally spread between group as well as solo content, but then make it that there is alot fo content that is exclusive to either group or solo players with rewards that are solely gained from that content.
The other funny thing is that most mmo players i know who no longer group up outside of guild/friend groups do so because of the elitist pricks and terrible players that exist in the world, and i cann't blame them in that as they are paying for a an enjoyable experince. Why should they have to relinquish their enjoyment to cater to other player's enjoyment, and mosot likely end up hating the gaming experince of that session trully. People are always saying how players should learned to play as their inability to play well costs others time in playing a game they pay to enjoy, but then some of these players complain that players refuse to group with them forcing them to solo or change their playstyle reducing their own enjoyment.
have to agree here with how what you are fighting should make sense to if you need a group to fight it. I mean a goblin, kobolt, beasts are all relatively weak, stupid as well as easy to fight alone, but in a massive group they are a formitable oppenent for any player or group. Yet some other things should require groups like golems, ,massive monsters (such as dragons, giants, dinosaurs.) as it makes sense fo them based on their size as well as danger. Yet also your character is supposed to be gaining in power as you level/progress so why is it that you would never seem to actually grow stronger merely gaining just enouph strength to take on that next area's mobs. By that way of thinking lets jsut throw away all of the mob designs leaving only the sheep mob, and then just raise it's level to where t is always a challlenge to fight regardless of what you have at that time.
I say created zones that are geared towards content for either solo or group play, with the mobs being approiate to the style of play used. If you are dong group content you might be raiding a castle, a platue that is infested with dragonkin, or even high up in the mountains where you fight powerful mobs as well as take enviromental damage as well (this would make soloing impossible as a healer would be crusshed by the mobs, tankers would be grinded down by the constent damage, dps would explode from the heavy hits of the creatures making a group needed.). Then you could make a valley or succh that is populated by lesser creatures that are less threatening to you, but are still a threat to the people within the valley.
Um... Isabelle...
[mod edit]
Solo has a negative impact on MMO's. Why? The developers have to focus more effort on these 'soloers' that could be spent working on the second letter of MMO. If 'soloers' want to play 'solo', they should be doing what 'soloers' have been doing for a long time now. Single Player gaming. That's what it was made for.
Why waste resources catering to a batch of whiners (and oh yes, do the Soloers ever whine... and demand... etc) that constantly demand that they be catered for, when you could be building what an MMO exists for: Multiplayer content. The genre isn't called Massively Multiplayer Online for no reason. Since solo became a huge deal in most MMO's, they degenerated in to Single Player with online chat games. With so much focus on the 'solo' aspects of modern MMO's, it isn't a surprise that the group play has degenerated in to piles of dung. I honestly see the industry as an old man, attached to my back, waving an old fishing rod over my head, with something delicious attached to the hook. I blame 'solo' for this.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
I would be best described as a casual solo player... have one character around lvl 50 and have never joined a guild and have had only one or two groups while playing up to this level... Join a guild? no thanks don't need the drama queen fest... If they didn't have solo stuff to do, then I wouldn't pay my subscription fee.. If I wanted to 'group' I would just fire up mIRC... I have been in exactly one raid since playing at the launch of EQ1.
I am not asking for extra perks because I solo... just the basic content to level my character and not have to group with a bunch of whiny loot whores. I have soloed in every MMO I have played from EQ1 onwards... any MMO that ignores people like myself won't be getting my money
Flawed game design destroys MMOs.