Ok...so...this game is gonna fail sooooo bad...i mean wtf is this???
A game with a hub where people meet and make a party to go to instances, funcom once more tricking people into thinking they are making an mmorpg....
Remember Age of conan? 800.000 players at launch and 2 months later 100.000 stayed thats a 87% player loss in 2 months after launch...in any book a failure.
As a co-op multiplayer game it might be a nice one but as an mmorpg its just crap..its not in that category.
Wait, this game doesn't not have persistent zones? Do you really form groups in hubs and do missions in instances created specifically for your group?
Ok...so...this game is gonna fail sooooo bad...i mean wtf is this???
A game with a hub where people meet and make a party to go to instances, funcom once more tricking people into thinking they are making an mmorpg....
Remember Age of conan? 800.000 players at launch and 2 months later 100.000 stayed thats a 87% player loss in 2 months after launch...in any book a failure.
As a co-op multiplayer game it might be a nice one but as an mmorpg its just crap..its not in that category.
Lol all your posts on these forums Are negative. Be it tsw, gw2, tera etc, etc. U sir talk out of your behind
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
So far from what i have gathered from videos and information is that tanking or healing isn't as strict and compulsary like a typical MMO triinity system. Since you have the freedom to build your character in anyway you like, players can throw in some healing skills along with dps, or some tanking skills along with dps / heals combo. What i am trying to say is that you don't need to be a pure healer or tank..you can be versatile in your one skill set and do a little bit of eveything.
believe it or not people do enjoy healing, tanking etc and i really don't want to bring GW2 into discussion because we know where topics go after that.
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
So far from what i have gathered from videos and information is that tanking or healing isn't as strict and compulsary like a typical MMO triinity system. Since you have the freedom to build your character in anyway you like, players can throw in some healing skills along with dps, or some tanking skills along with dps / heals combo. What i am trying to say is that you don't need to be a pure healer or tank..you can be versatile in your one skill set and do a little bit of eveything.
believe it or not people do enjoy healing, tanking etc and i really don't want to bring GW2 into discussion because we know where topics go after that.
I know people enjoy those set defined roles but no where near a majority of gamers do! That is the crux of the issue, regardless of any preconcieved notions if this game requires tanks and healers regardless of method used there will be a shortage of those and we will revert back to the: FG LF 1Tank and GTG! beign spammed in chat. It will not change no matter how you wish it may. Again TSW is on my radar but the trinity system and the animation issue are the biggest reasons I will remain skeptical. Sorry to bring GW2 into the discussion but I used it and AC as a method, the only method, that will remove the "need" to always have a healer and tank. I said it in 2004, ill say it again in 2012, the trinity is an archaic and poor implementation of group play because it puts too much emphasis on certain people instead of spreading the weight of the success of the party evenly over the entire party itself.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
More innovative, different and refreshing than all the other hyped titles at the moment. I look forward to trying this out, more worth while than GW2, TERA, or SWTOR... just saying.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
So far from what i have gathered from videos and information is that tanking or healing isn't as strict and compulsary like a typical MMO triinity system. Since you have the freedom to build your character in anyway you like, players can throw in some healing skills along with dps, or some tanking skills along with dps / heals combo. What i am trying to say is that you don't need to be a pure healer or tank..you can be versatile in your one skill set and do a little bit of eveything.
believe it or not people do enjoy healing, tanking etc and i really don't want to bring GW2 into discussion because we know where topics go after that.
I know people enjoy those set defined roles but no where near a majority of gamers do! That is the crux of the issue, regardless of any preconcieved notions if this game requires tanks and healers regardless of method used there will be a shortage of those and we will revert back to the: FG LF 1Tank and GTG! beign spammed in chat. It will not change no matter how you wish it may. Again TSW is on my radar but the trinity system and the animation issue are the biggest reasons I will remain skeptical. Sorry to bring GW2 into the discussion but I used it and AC as a method, the only method, that will remove the "need" to always have a healer and tank. I said it in 2004, ill say it again in 2012, the trinity is an archaic and poor implementation of group play because it puts too much emphasis on certain people instead of spreading the weight of the success of the party evenly over the entire party itself.
Please i really like to have discussions where people don't pass their opinions as a fact. You don't know that. GW2 is an exception and not a norm. you people talk as if GW2 came out and destroyed trinity system completely and majority of gamers just won't accept specific roles. Too much wishful thinkign and assumptions going on when it comes to GW2 and that is why i hate talking about it.
Also i doubt there would be any spam for LF tank or lf healer because if you look at the thousands of skill avilable to you and the skill sets you can come up with you will realise that there is no strict requirement for class roles.
More innovative, different and refreshing than all the other hyped titles at the moment. I look forward to trying this out, more worth while than GW2, TERA, or SWTOR... just saying.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I see TSW failcom pushing out another unfinished buggy game if those animations dont change and the physics of the world enviornments continue to remind me of a game from 1996. I am hoping they pull it together though because they are in desperate need of a good product.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
There are some interesting mechanics but so far the asthetics are weak IMO, when you hit things you don't seem to make real contact like in other soon to be released games. That's important to me. The story could be interesting, but I'd have to see more of the game or play it to see if I liked it. I notice they have a Trinity system, which is a big turn off.
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
So far from what i have gathered from videos and information is that tanking or healing isn't as strict and compulsary like a typical MMO triinity system. Since you have the freedom to build your character in anyway you like, players can throw in some healing skills along with dps, or some tanking skills along with dps / heals combo. What i am trying to say is that you don't need to be a pure healer or tank..you can be versatile in your one skill set and do a little bit of eveything.
believe it or not people do enjoy healing, tanking etc and i really don't want to bring GW2 into discussion because we know where topics go after that.
I know people enjoy those set defined roles but no where near a majority of gamers do! That is the crux of the issue, regardless of any preconcieved notions if this game requires tanks and healers regardless of method used there will be a shortage of those and we will revert back to the: FG LF 1Tank and GTG! beign spammed in chat. It will not change no matter how you wish it may. Again TSW is on my radar but the trinity system and the animation issue are the biggest reasons I will remain skeptical. Sorry to bring GW2 into the discussion but I used it and AC as a method, the only method, that will remove the "need" to always have a healer and tank. I said it in 2004, ill say it again in 2012, the trinity is an archaic and poor implementation of group play because it puts too much emphasis on certain people instead of spreading the weight of the success of the party evenly over the entire party itself.
Please i really like to have discussions where people don't pass their opinions as a fact. You don't know that. GW2 is an exception and not a norm. you people talk as if GW2 came out and destroyed trinity system completely and majority of gamers just won't accept specific roles. Too much wishful thinkign and assumptions going on when it comes to GW2 and that is why i hate talking about it.
Also i doubt there would be any spam for LF tank or lf healer because if you look at the thousands of skill avilable to you and the skill sets you can come up with you will realise that there is no strict requirement for class roles.
I really dislike having discussions with people who make faulty assumptions when 10+ years of history of "trinity based" group combat says otherwise. Listen its fine to talk "what ifs", thats part of the fun in debating but you can not make assertations that are based in fallcies such as what you say. Trinity based groups have always, and will always have a disproportionate amount of DPS roles to Healer/Tank roles. I dont say this with bravado or wishful thinking. I say this with 10+ years of proven track records to back up my claims. Name me one AAA MMO that utilyzed a trinity based grouping system and I will show you that Tanks and Healers were the minority of players.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Please i really like to have discussions where people don't pass their opinions as a fact. You don't know that. GW2 is an exception and not a norm. you people talk as if GW2 came out and destroyed trinity system completely and majority of gamers just won't accept specific roles. Too much wishful thinkign and assumptions going on when it comes to GW2 and that is why i hate talking about it.
Also i doubt there would be any spam for LF tank or lf healer because if you look at the thousands of skill avilable to you and the skill sets you can come up with you will realise that there is no strict requirement for class roles.
I really dislike having discussions with people who make faulty assumptions when 10+ years of history of "trinity based" group combat says otherwise. Listen its fine to talk "what ifs", thats part of the fun in debating but you can not make assertations that are based in fallcies such as what you say. Trinity based groups have always, and will always have a disproportionate amount of DPS roles to Healer/Tank roles. I dont say this with bravado or wishful thinking. I say this with 10+ years of proven track records to back up my claims. Name me one AAA MMO that utilyzed a trinity based grouping system and I will show you that Tanks and Healers were the minority of players.
If you are going to accuse me of assuming things and answer with more assumptions of yourself this discussion will go nowhere. GW2 fans always do this. And i knew this the moment you made first post but i thought i would give you benefit of doubt but that was my mistake.
And what you are failing to understand is that there is no 'strict' trinity system in TSW. So the discussion you are trying to have with me is not even true in context of this game.
Please i really like to have discussions where people don't pass their opinions as a fact. You don't know that. GW2 is an exception and not a norm. you people talk as if GW2 came out and destroyed trinity system completely and majority of gamers just won't accept specific roles. Too much wishful thinkign and assumptions going on when it comes to GW2 and that is why i hate talking about it.
Also i doubt there would be any spam for LF tank or lf healer because if you look at the thousands of skill avilable to you and the skill sets you can come up with you will realise that there is no strict requirement for class roles.
I really dislike having discussions with people who make faulty assumptions when 10+ years of history of "trinity based" group combat says otherwise. Listen its fine to talk "what ifs", thats part of the fun in debating but you can not make assertations that are based in fallcies such as what you say. Trinity based groups have always, and will always have a disproportionate amount of DPS roles to Healer/Tank roles. I dont say this with bravado or wishful thinking. I say this with 10+ years of proven track records to back up my claims. Name me one AAA MMO that utilyzed a trinity based grouping system and I will show you that Tanks and Healers were the minority of players.
If you are going to accuse me of assuming things and answer with more assumptions of yourself this discussion will go nowhere. GW2 fans always do this. And i knew this the moment you made first post but i thought i would give you benefit of doubt but that was my mistake.
And what you are failing to understand is that there is no 'strict' trinity system in TSW. So the discussion you are trying to have with me is not even true in context of this game.
I will accuse you of assuming when you....ummmm....start assuming. If you think in the history of trinity based combat that all of a sudden that in TSW you will have a plethora of tanks and healers wherein the last 10+ years its been the exact opposite then I dont know what to tell you. My assumptions are based on facts, your assumptions are based on wishful thinking....whos assumptions do you thinki will pan out....no seriously realistically if you think all of a sudden a trinity based system will all of a sudden eschew the age old problem of the trinity system (lack of healers and tanks as opposed to DPS roles) then I'm done debating. Good day.
Last comment though, I havnt done enough research of TSW lately because I've been focused on "another" game but in non strict trinity system you say TSW has, are you still required to have healers and tanks? If you are required then I will point to past history as to why no matter how you define it or how you design it, if you are required to have tanks/healers in any amount then they will be the least played role. Now if on the other hand it is designed in such a way that the majority of builds are required to have some sembalnce of tank/heal abilities such as life drains, taunts, or splash heals and the mobs are designed in such a way that agro is not an artificial number indicator in the way as WoW but people can trade back and forth agro then you no longer have a trinity system and my poinbt remains in tact.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I will accuse you of assuming when you....ummmm....start assuming. If you think in the history of trinity based combat that all of a sudden that in TSW you will have a plethora of tanks and healers wherein the last 10+ years its been the exact opposite then I dont know what to tell you. My assumptions are based on facts, your assumptions are based on wishful thinking....whos assumptions do you thinki will pan out....no seriously realistically if you think all of a sudden a trinity based system will all of a sudden eschew the age old problem of the trinity system (lack of healers and tanks as opposed to DPS roles) then I'm done debating. Good day.
Even if your assumptions are based on facts howis this relevant to TSW? that is all i am saying. I am not doing wishful thinking when i say that there are no strict trinity classes in TSW. If anything TSW seems to be more close to GW1 in class combinations just with a lot more skills to choose from.
I will accuse you of assuming when you....ummmm....start assuming. If you think in the history of trinity based combat that all of a sudden that in TSW you will have a plethora of tanks and healers wherein the last 10+ years its been the exact opposite then I dont know what to tell you. My assumptions are based on facts, your assumptions are based on wishful thinking....whos assumptions do you thinki will pan out....no seriously realistically if you think all of a sudden a trinity based system will all of a sudden eschew the age old problem of the trinity system (lack of healers and tanks as opposed to DPS roles) then I'm done debating. Good day.
Even if your assumptions are based on facts how are the relevant to TSW? that is all i am saying. I am not doign wishful thinking when i say that there are no strict trinity classes in TSW. If anything TSW seems to be more close to GW1 in class combinations just with a lot more skills to choose from.
added a new paragraph in the above which asked a legit question. If I suspect what you are getting at is what I think then10+ years of trinity based grouping leads me to my conclusion, as not one AAA MMO ever released ever had a population balance evenly between DPS and heals/tanks but the exact opposite is true.....human nature and history is my guide and yours is based on not to be so blunt but its the only way to describe it as wishful thinking.
Listen all I am saying is a trinity based system has always had population imbalances between tanks, heals and DPS and no amount of hope or wishful thinking will lead me to believe that magically TSW has found a solution to the age old trinity problem that has plagued it since day 1.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Listen all I am saying is a trinity based system has always had population imbalances between tanks, heals and DPS and no amount of hope or wishful thinking will lead me to believe that magically TSW has found a solution to the age old trinity problem that has plagued it since day 1.
I played a healer in my last MMO (AoC) and sometimes we had more than enough healers, but not enough tanks. If I could have just switched to a tank-build like you can in TSW I would have done so and solved the problem. I have no problem switching roles*. I bet there are enough people that are flexible like me to make it MUCH easier to get a group going in TSW than it is in other fixed-role MMO's.
*I do have problems with having to switch to an alt to do it though, often the alt is in the wrong place or I don't want the BOP to end up on that character, etc. Switching builds is a much more powerful mechanic than switching to an alt.
I watched the video again because I couldn't see why people are complaining about the animations. I did notice occasionally a little choppiness in places but that could be lag. Could also be the combat style. I mean there are no overly glorified martial arts style moves that we see in many games nowadays. I saw economy of movement, like you would see in a real fight. In a real fight you are going to conserve your energy. If you are swinging a big hammer you aren't going to be doing extra flourishes as it would tire you out sooner. I saw more realism in the way the fighting was done imo. Characters not connecting in combat. The only place I saw that was in the area with marriane chen with the filthified. It made sense to me that they weren't actually connecting since they looked like casters.
Holy trinity debate. I have no issue with it. Could be because my husband always plays the tank role and I the healer. I guess that makes us the minority spoken of by some. Do I always want to run with a healing build espescially if I am out on my own? No and I have the option to swap out a build using the gear manager with a more all purpose one that better suits soloing. Games that don't require the trinity don't usually have the difficulty I am looking for. When everyone can be a jack of all trades they usually chose just enough healing for themselves. It is a very self centered type of playstyle that not all of us appreciate. I honestly do think it is fair that someone who goes down an entire skill set to the very end should be better than someone who just takes a few points. How do you alleviate this? Remove all tanking skills, healing, stealth, crowd control. Basically by removing anything specialized so that everyone is on even footing so that no one has an unfair advantage because so and so didn't chose that skill. How boring!
If there was anything that I might nit pick about would be some of the dialogue. Mainly some of the Americanisms used by Marriane Chen. The word "icky" I would have replaced with "gross" or even "nastey" and "skedaddle" with "run for the hills". Icky sounds overly youthful and doesn't give it the weight of being disturbing. haha Icky makes me think of being chased by someone with a booger on their finger. I would definatelly run from it but I would not be in fear of my life!! XD Skedaddle is very countrified and used more often to mean hurry up and go do something, as opposed to running away in fear. I chalk it up to they are wanting to portray Marriane as unsophisticated, young, vulnerable and that the dialogue writers may not be as familiar with the subtleys of American English vs how Europeans think we speak. Those are very minor inconsistencies for me. Nothing that would cause me more than a slight bit of amusement.XD
the crafting seems really nice with a lot of customizations, as well as the nifty classless skill system. dunno why but the game reminds me a lot of Anarchy Online, which is a good thing since it's one of my favourite games.
people seem to complain about animations and the combat, and while i understand their concerns i'm trying to figure out if that's really something you should be complaining about, considering how many games launched that had amazing animations and fluid combat (TERA, which will launch soon, TOR, Age of Conan [yes, i know it's a funcom game]) but lacked in content and depth.
this game seems to have an incredible world (that looks absolutely stunning, i especially liked the effects of spells and such) with an interesting story along with a classless system that enables you almost complete freedom of choice on how to make your character. they even seem to care about the social aspect of the MMO (with dance clubs/bars/fight clubs in hubs, etc) which is something that has been missing for a long time in MMORPGS.
there are some things that bother me though:
how linear the game will be - from the footage the game looks very linear, which kinda ruins the sense of freedom. i hope it's just the footage, and i can't wait to try the game and see for myself.
will it feel like an offline RPG? - i seriously hope grouping will be encourged, and not just for dungeons. doing stuff together with other people, living in a lively persistent world, it's really something i miss.
content - will there be enough content, both for PvE and PvP? so far the videos i've seen showed the same stuff, and i haven't seemed any PvP action yet (though i haven't looked actively for it).
all in all, i'm keeping my eye on this game, but my hopes are very limited mainly because too many games fail to deliver.
Listen all I am saying is a trinity based system has always had population imbalances between tanks, heals and DPS and no amount of hope or wishful thinking will lead me to believe that magically TSW has found a solution to the age old trinity problem that has plagued it since day 1.
Your problem is that you are failing to define the group size and proportion. In WOW LFR right now, it is fairly common to have to wait for DPS. In wow, 5 mans are based on 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. If they changed the dynamice to 6 man content and had 4 dps, things would be even, and we would probably be waiting for dps for heroics. When you are leveling up doing dungeons, again.. almost always waiting for dps spots.. I queue as healer and dps and almost always get put in a dps spot.
But again, you are making conclusions not based on reason. Why do less players play tanks and healers? Mostly because it is a more demanding and less forgiving gamestyle. For the first 3 years of WOW, I would take a bathroom break in the middle of a boss fight in wow and most people wouldn´t notice. A healer barely has 5 seconds to look away. Tanks are naturally set up as the leader and many people who play video games do not have real leadership skills. there is a bunch of reasons tanks and healers are in the minority.
But there doesn´t have to be equal numbers of all 3. You don´t have to have an equal number of medics as infantry in the army.
But here is the thing that has never been addressed.. without the Trinity, it is impossible to make boss encounters interesting with real mechanisms. Tank-handoffs...aoe vs single target healing make gameplay much more interesting. I have yet to see any game without a true tank have interesting boss mechanisms.. they are just big piles of meat with a lot of hitpoints that do damage. Watch most boss encounters in WOW.. 3 phases, different complex mechanisms... in other games.. every boss is a 1 phase punching bag.. it hits, you, you hit it, it hits you, you hit it... boring.
Listen all I am saying is a trinity based system has always had population imbalances between tanks, heals and DPS and no amount of hope or wishful thinking will lead me to believe that magically TSW has found a solution to the age old trinity problem that has plagued it since day 1.
Yes, there is a population imbalance with the typical trinity system, but that's something that is easy to deal with. You take your typical trinity spread. Let's say population is (pulling numbers out of my ass) 60% DPS, 25% Healers, 15% Tanks.
The way you even this out is not by 'forcing' people to switch roles, or play certain classes if they don't want to wait in queues. The way you handle it is you make groups 3 DPS, 1 Healer, 1 Tank. or 3 DPS, 2 healers, 1 tank. You change the group dynamic to match the population spread.
The problem is, when you have to switch to a differnet build you need someone who knows how to work that specific build. Trinity based games don't force their users to learn to play the whole game, just their role. I saw the switching thing and thought, oh that's like Rift. Sure, a seasoned vet like me can play a healer or tank, but not everyone can. Tanking takes a ton of skill to do.
I just hate the idea of monsters so dumb thinking "oh he wants me to attack him now okay". It's so anti dungeons and dragons, the game this was all based on. As a DMthe bosses use stratagie, not focusing at the guy yelling at them to attack them.
Ya I watched this presentation too a few weeks ago. Nothing appealed to me at all from what I saw. The game world looks lifeless, animations are bleh, cut-scenes are meh...and towns as social hubs? I dunno..it seems to be following SW:TORs path of disappointment or at least, definately not worth the hype it is getting.
You could argue all you want and say how great the classless system is, but at the end of the day, it takes more than a few innovative mechanics to make a game awesome. It is the sum of its parts that counts.
Ugh. Thank goodness Funcom released this presentation video. I am now certain i will not be participating in this train wreck. Such a shame because the game premise sounded so unique and different.
I lasted as long as the scene in the hotel room with the Dragon initiate. I was interested in trying out the Dragon faction, but I have no interest or attachment to the idea of having my character felt up or whatever other sexual act was taking place. I felt very uncomfortable and embarrassed especially since this is the opening introduction to a player character faction. The idea that a faction revolves around sensuality just seems like a weak ploy to pull in a larger player base.
The graphics were god awful. The Dragon recruiter or whatever her function, looks native american even though she is clearly meant to represent an asian influence. Such dated animations, character models...even the cars parked in the street are simple renderings and merely a poor attempt at some semblence of atmosphere.
I don't have a hate on for Funcom, I have heard of their history but not really followed their games until TSW. So I could care less where they came from, but based on this presentation video their future looks dim. No thanks.
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It's a bit hard to believe this game is releasing in June.
Wait, this game doesn't not have persistent zones? Do you really form groups in hubs and do missions in instances created specifically for your group?
Nope. Areas are persistent, the guy was wrong.
Lol all your posts on these forums Are negative. Be it tsw, gw2, tera etc, etc. U sir talk out of your behindSaw the whole video and to me animations seem ok.
*shrugs*
There is no strict trinity system in TSW. You can change builds on fly so you don't have to stand around waiting for healers, tank dps. Any person can be nything you just have to change your saved builds.
The problem with that is not everyone wants to be a healer or a tank regardlessif you can change on the fly. Hell WoW had dual specs and most classes could perform dual roles but still there was always a never ending shortage of tanks and healers. I commend what Funcom is trying to do but it wont even come close to alleviate the problem that the majority of gamers do not want to be a tank or healer. With that being said I think the more optimum approach is to do away with roles all toether in much the same way GW2 is trying to do and Asheron's Call did in the past.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
So far from what i have gathered from videos and information is that tanking or healing isn't as strict and compulsary like a typical MMO triinity system. Since you have the freedom to build your character in anyway you like, players can throw in some healing skills along with dps, or some tanking skills along with dps / heals combo. What i am trying to say is that you don't need to be a pure healer or tank..you can be versatile in your one skill set and do a little bit of eveything.
believe it or not people do enjoy healing, tanking etc and i really don't want to bring GW2 into discussion because we know where topics go after that.
I know people enjoy those set defined roles but no where near a majority of gamers do! That is the crux of the issue, regardless of any preconcieved notions if this game requires tanks and healers regardless of method used there will be a shortage of those and we will revert back to the: FG LF 1Tank and GTG! beign spammed in chat. It will not change no matter how you wish it may. Again TSW is on my radar but the trinity system and the animation issue are the biggest reasons I will remain skeptical. Sorry to bring GW2 into the discussion but I used it and AC as a method, the only method, that will remove the "need" to always have a healer and tank. I said it in 2004, ill say it again in 2012, the trinity is an archaic and poor implementation of group play because it puts too much emphasis on certain people instead of spreading the weight of the success of the party evenly over the entire party itself.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
More innovative, different and refreshing than all the other hyped titles at the moment. I look forward to trying this out, more worth while than GW2, TERA, or SWTOR... just saying.
Please i really like to have discussions where people don't pass their opinions as a fact. You don't know that. GW2 is an exception and not a norm. you people talk as if GW2 came out and destroyed trinity system completely and majority of gamers just won't accept specific roles. Too much wishful thinkign and assumptions going on when it comes to GW2 and that is why i hate talking about it.
Also i doubt there would be any spam for LF tank or lf healer because if you look at the thousands of skill avilable to you and the skill sets you can come up with you will realise that there is no strict requirement for class roles.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. I see TSW failcom pushing out another unfinished buggy game if those animations dont change and the physics of the world enviornments continue to remind me of a game from 1996. I am hoping they pull it together though because they are in desperate need of a good product.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I really dislike having discussions with people who make faulty assumptions when 10+ years of history of "trinity based" group combat says otherwise. Listen its fine to talk "what ifs", thats part of the fun in debating but you can not make assertations that are based in fallcies such as what you say. Trinity based groups have always, and will always have a disproportionate amount of DPS roles to Healer/Tank roles. I dont say this with bravado or wishful thinking. I say this with 10+ years of proven track records to back up my claims. Name me one AAA MMO that utilyzed a trinity based grouping system and I will show you that Tanks and Healers were the minority of players.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
If you are going to accuse me of assuming things and answer with more assumptions of yourself this discussion will go nowhere. GW2 fans always do this. And i knew this the moment you made first post but i thought i would give you benefit of doubt but that was my mistake.
And what you are failing to understand is that there is no 'strict' trinity system in TSW. So the discussion you are trying to have with me is not even true in context of this game.
I will accuse you of assuming when you....ummmm....start assuming. If you think in the history of trinity based combat that all of a sudden that in TSW you will have a plethora of tanks and healers wherein the last 10+ years its been the exact opposite then I dont know what to tell you. My assumptions are based on facts, your assumptions are based on wishful thinking....whos assumptions do you thinki will pan out....no seriously realistically if you think all of a sudden a trinity based system will all of a sudden eschew the age old problem of the trinity system (lack of healers and tanks as opposed to DPS roles) then I'm done debating. Good day.
Last comment though, I havnt done enough research of TSW lately because I've been focused on "another" game but in non strict trinity system you say TSW has, are you still required to have healers and tanks? If you are required then I will point to past history as to why no matter how you define it or how you design it, if you are required to have tanks/healers in any amount then they will be the least played role. Now if on the other hand it is designed in such a way that the majority of builds are required to have some sembalnce of tank/heal abilities such as life drains, taunts, or splash heals and the mobs are designed in such a way that agro is not an artificial number indicator in the way as WoW but people can trade back and forth agro then you no longer have a trinity system and my poinbt remains in tact.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Even if your assumptions are based on facts howis this relevant to TSW? that is all i am saying. I am not doing wishful thinking when i say that there are no strict trinity classes in TSW. If anything TSW seems to be more close to GW1 in class combinations just with a lot more skills to choose from.
added a new paragraph in the above which asked a legit question. If I suspect what you are getting at is what I think then10+ years of trinity based grouping leads me to my conclusion, as not one AAA MMO ever released ever had a population balance evenly between DPS and heals/tanks but the exact opposite is true.....human nature and history is my guide and yours is based on not to be so blunt but its the only way to describe it as wishful thinking.
Listen all I am saying is a trinity based system has always had population imbalances between tanks, heals and DPS and no amount of hope or wishful thinking will lead me to believe that magically TSW has found a solution to the age old trinity problem that has plagued it since day 1.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I played a healer in my last MMO (AoC) and sometimes we had more than enough healers, but not enough tanks. If I could have just switched to a tank-build like you can in TSW I would have done so and solved the problem. I have no problem switching roles*. I bet there are enough people that are flexible like me to make it MUCH easier to get a group going in TSW than it is in other fixed-role MMO's.
*I do have problems with having to switch to an alt to do it though, often the alt is in the wrong place or I don't want the BOP to end up on that character, etc. Switching builds is a much more powerful mechanic than switching to an alt.
I watched the video again because I couldn't see why people are complaining about the animations. I did notice occasionally a little choppiness in places but that could be lag. Could also be the combat style. I mean there are no overly glorified martial arts style moves that we see in many games nowadays. I saw economy of movement, like you would see in a real fight. In a real fight you are going to conserve your energy. If you are swinging a big hammer you aren't going to be doing extra flourishes as it would tire you out sooner. I saw more realism in the way the fighting was done imo. Characters not connecting in combat. The only place I saw that was in the area with marriane chen with the filthified. It made sense to me that they weren't actually connecting since they looked like casters.
Holy trinity debate. I have no issue with it. Could be because my husband always plays the tank role and I the healer. I guess that makes us the minority spoken of by some. Do I always want to run with a healing build espescially if I am out on my own? No and I have the option to swap out a build using the gear manager with a more all purpose one that better suits soloing. Games that don't require the trinity don't usually have the difficulty I am looking for. When everyone can be a jack of all trades they usually chose just enough healing for themselves. It is a very self centered type of playstyle that not all of us appreciate. I honestly do think it is fair that someone who goes down an entire skill set to the very end should be better than someone who just takes a few points. How do you alleviate this? Remove all tanking skills, healing, stealth, crowd control. Basically by removing anything specialized so that everyone is on even footing so that no one has an unfair advantage because so and so didn't chose that skill. How boring!
If there was anything that I might nit pick about would be some of the dialogue. Mainly some of the Americanisms used by Marriane Chen. The word "icky" I would have replaced with "gross" or even "nastey" and "skedaddle" with "run for the hills". Icky sounds overly youthful and doesn't give it the weight of being disturbing. haha Icky makes me think of being chased by someone with a booger on their finger. I would definatelly run from it but I would not be in fear of my life!! XD Skedaddle is very countrified and used more often to mean hurry up and go do something, as opposed to running away in fear. I chalk it up to they are wanting to portray Marriane as unsophisticated, young, vulnerable and that the dialogue writers may not be as familiar with the subtleys of American English vs how Europeans think we speak. Those are very minor inconsistencies for me. Nothing that would cause me more than a slight bit of amusement.XD
the crafting seems really nice with a lot of customizations, as well as the nifty classless skill system. dunno why but the game reminds me a lot of Anarchy Online, which is a good thing since it's one of my favourite games.
people seem to complain about animations and the combat, and while i understand their concerns i'm trying to figure out if that's really something you should be complaining about, considering how many games launched that had amazing animations and fluid combat (TERA, which will launch soon, TOR, Age of Conan [yes, i know it's a funcom game]) but lacked in content and depth.
this game seems to have an incredible world (that looks absolutely stunning, i especially liked the effects of spells and such) with an interesting story along with a classless system that enables you almost complete freedom of choice on how to make your character. they even seem to care about the social aspect of the MMO (with dance clubs/bars/fight clubs in hubs, etc) which is something that has been missing for a long time in MMORPGS.
there are some things that bother me though:
how linear the game will be - from the footage the game looks very linear, which kinda ruins the sense of freedom. i hope it's just the footage, and i can't wait to try the game and see for myself.
will it feel like an offline RPG? - i seriously hope grouping will be encourged, and not just for dungeons. doing stuff together with other people, living in a lively persistent world, it's really something i miss.
content - will there be enough content, both for PvE and PvP? so far the videos i've seen showed the same stuff, and i haven't seemed any PvP action yet (though i haven't looked actively for it).
all in all, i'm keeping my eye on this game, but my hopes are very limited mainly because too many games fail to deliver.
Your problem is that you are failing to define the group size and proportion. In WOW LFR right now, it is fairly common to have to wait for DPS. In wow, 5 mans are based on 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. If they changed the dynamice to 6 man content and had 4 dps, things would be even, and we would probably be waiting for dps for heroics. When you are leveling up doing dungeons, again.. almost always waiting for dps spots.. I queue as healer and dps and almost always get put in a dps spot.
But again, you are making conclusions not based on reason. Why do less players play tanks and healers? Mostly because it is a more demanding and less forgiving gamestyle. For the first 3 years of WOW, I would take a bathroom break in the middle of a boss fight in wow and most people wouldn´t notice. A healer barely has 5 seconds to look away. Tanks are naturally set up as the leader and many people who play video games do not have real leadership skills. there is a bunch of reasons tanks and healers are in the minority.
But there doesn´t have to be equal numbers of all 3. You don´t have to have an equal number of medics as infantry in the army.
But here is the thing that has never been addressed.. without the Trinity, it is impossible to make boss encounters interesting with real mechanisms. Tank-handoffs...aoe vs single target healing make gameplay much more interesting. I have yet to see any game without a true tank have interesting boss mechanisms.. they are just big piles of meat with a lot of hitpoints that do damage. Watch most boss encounters in WOW.. 3 phases, different complex mechanisms... in other games.. every boss is a 1 phase punching bag.. it hits, you, you hit it, it hits you, you hit it... boring.
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Yes, there is a population imbalance with the typical trinity system, but that's something that is easy to deal with. You take your typical trinity spread. Let's say population is (pulling numbers out of my ass) 60% DPS, 25% Healers, 15% Tanks.
The way you even this out is not by 'forcing' people to switch roles, or play certain classes if they don't want to wait in queues. The way you handle it is you make groups 3 DPS, 1 Healer, 1 Tank. or 3 DPS, 2 healers, 1 tank. You change the group dynamic to match the population spread.
The problem is, when you have to switch to a differnet build you need someone who knows how to work that specific build. Trinity based games don't force their users to learn to play the whole game, just their role. I saw the switching thing and thought, oh that's like Rift. Sure, a seasoned vet like me can play a healer or tank, but not everyone can. Tanking takes a ton of skill to do.
I just hate the idea of monsters so dumb thinking "oh he wants me to attack him now okay". It's so anti dungeons and dragons, the game this was all based on. As a DMthe bosses use stratagie, not focusing at the guy yelling at them to attack them.
Ya I watched this presentation too a few weeks ago. Nothing appealed to me at all from what I saw. The game world looks lifeless, animations are bleh, cut-scenes are meh...and towns as social hubs? I dunno..it seems to be following SW:TORs path of disappointment or at least, definately not worth the hype it is getting.
You could argue all you want and say how great the classless system is, but at the end of the day, it takes more than a few innovative mechanics to make a game awesome. It is the sum of its parts that counts.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Ugh. Thank goodness Funcom released this presentation video. I am now certain i will not be participating in this train wreck. Such a shame because the game premise sounded so unique and different.
I lasted as long as the scene in the hotel room with the Dragon initiate. I was interested in trying out the Dragon faction, but I have no interest or attachment to the idea of having my character felt up or whatever other sexual act was taking place. I felt very uncomfortable and embarrassed especially since this is the opening introduction to a player character faction. The idea that a faction revolves around sensuality just seems like a weak ploy to pull in a larger player base.
The graphics were god awful. The Dragon recruiter or whatever her function, looks native american even though she is clearly meant to represent an asian influence. Such dated animations, character models...even the cars parked in the street are simple renderings and merely a poor attempt at some semblence of atmosphere.
I don't have a hate on for Funcom, I have heard of their history but not really followed their games until TSW. So I could care less where they came from, but based on this presentation video their future looks dim. No thanks.