That's not common sense, because you can create inflation by playing the AH via gems.
For instance, if I bought a lot of gems, traded them for gold with another player, and then bought up a ton of mats in the AH to resell at a profit, it would work the same way as if I'd bought gold in WoW. It is not inflation neutral, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the supply of gold might be limited, but the supply of mats, being limited, is very susceptible to price inflation. You also have to take into account the supply-demand characteristics of mats ingame, otherwise someone willing to spend RL money for ingame gems can make a killing speculating on the AH, with more of an advantage than someone who only has the gold they earned speculating to trade with.
However, the more gems flooding the market, the less valuable those gems become. If everone bought $15 worth of gems each month and placed them on the market, they would be worth next to nothing in gold. Speculators have room to profit from speculation, but I wouldn't assume that they will be right even most of the time. Every other AAA MMO I can think of has server only, (and usually faction only) Auction Houses, which makes price manipulation viable for speculators. In GW2, the Marketplace is cross server. All players everywhere share the same Marketplace. How do you manipulate mat prices as one person on one server out of a hunderd or more? There could be millions of players for this game in the early months, how does one person ever hope to manipulate a market of millions? (With enough money, maybe, but I tend to doubt anyone will drop $millions into GW2 gems)!
I have much fear for any economy that suffers under outside influence. Allowing "RealWorld" money into the game economy is like the Federal Reserve printing money...Ask any economist, this will cause inflation.
Hope not but, reality is a bitch, and even tends to get it's slimey hands into the virtual world.
nothing's got me worried about the game up until this point. i've always thought highly of GW1's in game store. it was fair, purely cosmetic and are locked strictly into an account, which, i think, are also some of the reasons the store was well received by the GW1 community. i basically percieved it as a "cash shop done right" and i'm sure a lot of other people thought so as well. but this... it just rubs me the wrong way.
since this isn't finalized, i'll reserve judgment but i really hope they reconsider.
So ya'll are saying this isn't EXACTLY like WoW and I should be freaking out because I am applying all my concerns/fears about this as if it were exactly like WoW?
Lol pretty much, funny enough the game was set up to be unable to win by raiding a hundred of times and it was already set up to not be winable no matter how much money you pay, all in mechanics and as well transactions.
Makes sense
Funny enough people take the first post in the thread and take it as something bad but with some thought it helps, I have a feeling you knew this Badspockk and I still do lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I have much fear for any economy that suffers under outside influence. Allowing "RealWorld" money into the game economy is like the Federal Reserve printing money...Ask any economist, this will cause inflation.
Hope not but, reality is a bitch, and even tends to get it's slimey hands into the virtual world.
GW2 Marketplace is cross server. Price of goods is determined by trends among perhaps millions of players. No individuals are likely to have any impact on the economy with out spending much more $$$ than it would ever be worth.
The Fed prints new money. Gems do not create new gold. The amount of gold in the economy doesn't change when someone buys gems. You can't sell Gems to a vendor for new gold, only trade them with other players for gold that already exists in the game economy. This is why the $$$ currency is Gems, not Gold. If one could create new gold by spending $$$, then there would be unchecked inflation.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Furthermore if it will became Pay2Win depends on what these so-called 'convenience' items will entail: if you can buy Guild and PvP vanity items WvW will become Pay2Win in WvW, because you can buy advantages for WvW with Guild and PvP vanity.
Another problem I have with this micro-transaction system is that in Guild Wars 1 the elite armor was only available to those people who wanted to spend time and effort on the game, although the elite amors stats weren't any better than normal end-game gear. The reason people still wanted to put that much effort in acquiring it was because it looked cool and they could distinguish themselves with it. With this system everyone can just buy the rare kind of armor with real money. The motivation for getting that kind of gear will be lessened because of this, because you can't see the difference between a player who has bought it with cash and a player who got the gear through working hard for it.
I think thats a good thing. It removes the focus from gear, but at the same time doesnt stop you from achieving it.
Where are the fanboi's now? They are selling IN GAME GOLD, end of discussion. I've said all along that the cash shop worried me, and I have been completely vindicated. This game is now a F2P/P2W nightmare.
Still here *waves*.
I'm so looking forward to all that end game gear I'm gonna buy to faceroll nubs. It's gonna be so sweeeet! I hear they will also be selling fortresses and citadels in WvW so my guild can own one without even stepping into the Mists. Totally grand. I also hear that Zhaitan can be bribed with gems. Just give him enough and he'll leave Tyria forever. No muss, no fuss, all win. All you need to do is collect the lewt. Damn, P2W kicks some serious ass! I bet I don't even need to log in to the game to complete it because I'll be able to buy my way to 80 through my iPhone. Bah, dungeons and DEs are for the proles. If you've got the money to buy your way to the top, why bother even playing? Maybe if I give ArenaNet enough money, they can just send me a GW2 poster with the words "You WIN!" printed on it and I can skip the whole step of buying the game in the first place.
I didn't realize how much time this new P2W system is going to save me. Thank you so much for the welcome illumination!
Any one still planning on [trying] to P2W in this game?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
You know why D3 doesn't bother me and this does? Because the way D3 is going to work, I think a bunch of first world wannabe gold farmers are going to drive prices on individual items so ridiculously low that it will be nearly impossible for gold farmers to make a profit.
But GW2 isn't going to be about individual items put up by players for real money. It's about taking real money and turning it into currency to buy GW2 items with. Same as it's always been for the gold farmers, they'll mostly sell gold completely outside the system (except maybe for a little diamond speculation on the side), and no doubt they'll also dabble in jacking up AH prices and creating scarcity of goods so supply drives demand.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I have much fear for any economy that suffers under outside influence. Allowing "RealWorld" money into the game economy is like the Federal Reserve printing money...Ask any economist, this will cause inflation.
Hope not but, reality is a bitch, and even tends to get it's slimey hands into the virtual world.
GW2 Marketplace is cross server. Price of goods is determined by trends among perhaps millions of players. No individuals are likely to have any impact on the economy with out spending much more $$$ than it would ever be worth.
The Fed prints new money. Gems do not create new gold. The amount of gold in the economy doesn't change when someone buys gems. You can't sell Gems to a vendor for new gold, only trade them with other players for gold that already exists in the game economy. This is why the $$$ currency is Gems, not Gold. If one could create new gold by spending $$$, then there would be unchecked inflation.
Yes it does. It doesn't have to be traded for gold to be currency. The gems themselves are already currency. To compare it in GW1 terms, its as if you would buy ectos in the cashshop.
On a side note : The comparison with rl is flawed to begin with. New gold is generated all the time as loot and questrewards. So these gems is a moneyprinting press on top of that endless supply of gold. So it just makes inflation happen faster.
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what you win and how you go about it with this new Pay to Win scheme.
I'm waiting to honestly, meantime I'm eating popcorn/pizza drinnking lemonade/koolaid.
Honestly this was one or my worries set at ease.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That's not common sense, because you can create inflation by playing the AH via gems.
For instance, if I bought a lot of gems, traded them for gold with another player, and then bought up a ton of mats in the AH to resell at a profit, it would work the same way as if I'd bought gold in WoW. It is not inflation neutral, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the supply of gold might be limited, but the supply of mats, being limited, is very susceptible to price inflation. You also have to take into account the supply-demand characteristics of mats ingame, otherwise someone willing to spend RL money for ingame gems can make a killing speculating on the AH, with more of an advantage than someone who only has the gold they earned speculating to trade with.
However, the more gems flooding the market, the less valuable those gems become. If everone bought $15 worth of gems each month and placed them on the market, they would be worth next to nothing in gold. Speculators have room to profit from speculation, but I wouldn't assume that they will be right even most of the time. Every other AAA MMO I can think of has server only, (and usually faction only) Auction Houses, which makes price manipulation viable for speculators. In GW2, the Marketplace is cross server. All players everywhere share the same Marketplace. How do you manipulate mat prices as one person on one server out of a hunderd or more? There could be millions of players for this game in the early months, how does one person ever hope to manipulate a market of millions? (With enough money, maybe, but I tend to doubt anyone will drop $millions into GW2 gems)!
That is interesting. I didn't know the AH was cross-server. But why wouldn't it ultimately cause mat inflation anyway, if you can buy the gems to trade for gold to buy mats? Servers surely won't be that unique in their behaviours. My point is that it is not 'neutral,' even if the supply of gold is fixed, as mats will not be.
But your response does make me wonder - can you buy stuff in the AH with gems as opposed to in-game gold? Is there some sort of conversion option there? Thanks for your considered reply, by the way.
Honestly don't know why there is this sudden exitement, nothing has changed. How is this any less acceptable from what you thought before the announcement?
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
You know why D3 doesn't bother me and this does? Because the way D3 is going to work, I think a bunch of first world wannabe gold farmers are going to drive prices on individual items so ridiculously low that it will be nearly impossible for gold farmers to make a profit.
But GW2 isn't going to be about individual items put up by players for real money. It's about taking real money and turning it into currency to buy GW2 items with. Same as it's always been for the gold farmers, they'll mostly sell gold completely outside the system (except maybe for a little diamond speculation on the side), and no doubt they'll also dabble in jacking up AH prices and creating scarcity of goods so supply drives demand.
The difference is that D3 is a gear grind, GW2 is not. Why do you keep asuming the game is WoW?
That's not common sense, because you can create inflation by playing the AH via gems.
For instance, if I bought a lot of gems, traded them for gold with another player, and then bought up a ton of mats in the AH to resell at a profit, it would work the same way as if I'd bought gold in WoW. It is not inflation neutral, because it doesn't take into account the fact that the supply of gold might be limited, but the supply of mats, being limited, is very susceptible to price inflation. You also have to take into account the supply-demand characteristics of mats ingame, otherwise someone willing to spend RL money for ingame gems can make a killing speculating on the AH, with more of an advantage than someone who only has the gold they earned speculating to trade with.
However, the more gems flooding the market, the less valuable those gems become. If everone bought $15 worth of gems each month and placed them on the market, they would be worth next to nothing in gold. Speculators have room to profit from speculation, but I wouldn't assume that they will be right even most of the time. Every other AAA MMO I can think of has server only, (and usually faction only) Auction Houses, which makes price manipulation viable for speculators. In GW2, the Marketplace is cross server. All players everywhere share the same Marketplace. How do you manipulate mat prices as one person on one server out of a hunderd or more? There could be millions of players for this game in the early months, how does one person ever hope to manipulate a market of millions? (With enough money, maybe, but I tend to doubt anyone will drop $millions into GW2 gems)!
That is interesting. I didn't know the AH was cross-server. But why wouldn't it ultimately cause mat inflation anyway, if you can buy the gems to trade for gold to buy mats? Servers surely won't be that unique in their behaviours. My point is that it is not 'neutral,' even if the supply of gold is fixed, as mats will not be.
But your response does make me wonder - can you buy stuff in the AH with gems as opposed to in-game gold? Is there some sort of conversion option there? Thanks for your considered reply, by the way.
Gems are currency for cash shop only. The only thing you can do in game with them is trade them to other players. There is no NPC that will trade gems for gold for example.
Any one still planning on [trying] to P2W in this game?
I hope many do so that it funds a bunch of new content.
Aye I feel you on that bro. I hope they try buy spending cash, more content.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Honestly don't know why there is this sudden exitement, nothing has changed. How is this any less acceptable from what you thought before the announcement?
People that understand how the game will work, recognise that there is nothing wring with this system for this particualr game. Even better this system counters the gold sellers.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
However, the more gems flooding the market, the less valuable those gems become. If everone bought $15 worth of gems each month and placed them on the market, they would be worth next to nothing in gold. Speculators have room to profit from speculation, but I wouldn't assume that they will be right even most of the time. Every other AAA MMO I can think of has server only, (and usually faction only) Auction Houses, which makes price manipulation viable for speculators. In GW2, the Marketplace is cross server. All players everywhere share the same Marketplace. How do you manipulate mat prices as one person on one server out of a hunderd or more? There could be millions of players for this game in the early months, how does one person ever hope to manipulate a market of millions? (With enough money, maybe, but I tend to doubt anyone will drop $millions into GW2 gems)!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I have much fear for any economy that suffers under outside influence. Allowing "RealWorld" money into the game economy is like the Federal Reserve printing money...Ask any economist, this will cause inflation.
Hope not but, reality is a bitch, and even tends to get it's slimey hands into the virtual world.
I really hope that this turns out to be some cruel April fools day joke.
nothing's got me worried about the game up until this point. i've always thought highly of GW1's in game store. it was fair, purely cosmetic and are locked strictly into an account, which, i think, are also some of the reasons the store was well received by the GW1 community. i basically percieved it as a "cash shop done right" and i'm sure a lot of other people thought so as well. but this... it just rubs me the wrong way.
since this isn't finalized, i'll reserve judgment but i really hope they reconsider.
Lol pretty much, funny enough the game was set up to be unable to win by raiding a hundred of times and it was already set up to not be winable no matter how much money you pay, all in mechanics and as well transactions.
Makes sense
Funny enough people take the first post in the thread and take it as something bad but with some thought it helps, I have a feeling you knew this Badspockk and I still do lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
GW2 Marketplace is cross server. Price of goods is determined by trends among perhaps millions of players. No individuals are likely to have any impact on the economy with out spending much more $$$ than it would ever be worth.
The Fed prints new money. Gems do not create new gold. The amount of gold in the economy doesn't change when someone buys gems. You can't sell Gems to a vendor for new gold, only trade them with other players for gold that already exists in the game economy. This is why the $$$ currency is Gems, not Gold. If one could create new gold by spending $$$, then there would be unchecked inflation.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Oops.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I think thats a good thing. It removes the focus from gear, but at the same time doesnt stop you from achieving it.
Still here *waves*.
I'm so looking forward to all that end game gear I'm gonna buy to faceroll nubs. It's gonna be so sweeeet! I hear they will also be selling fortresses and citadels in WvW so my guild can own one without even stepping into the Mists. Totally grand. I also hear that Zhaitan can be bribed with gems. Just give him enough and he'll leave Tyria forever. No muss, no fuss, all win. All you need to do is collect the lewt. Damn, P2W kicks some serious ass! I bet I don't even need to log in to the game to complete it because I'll be able to buy my way to 80 through my iPhone. Bah, dungeons and DEs are for the proles. If you've got the money to buy your way to the top, why bother even playing? Maybe if I give ArenaNet enough money, they can just send me a GW2 poster with the words "You WIN!" printed on it and I can skip the whole step of buying the game in the first place.
I didn't realize how much time this new P2W system is going to save me. Thank you so much for the welcome illumination!
Any one still planning on [trying] to P2W in this game?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
You know why D3 doesn't bother me and this does? Because the way D3 is going to work, I think a bunch of first world wannabe gold farmers are going to drive prices on individual items so ridiculously low that it will be nearly impossible for gold farmers to make a profit.
But GW2 isn't going to be about individual items put up by players for real money. It's about taking real money and turning it into currency to buy GW2 items with. Same as it's always been for the gold farmers, they'll mostly sell gold completely outside the system (except maybe for a little diamond speculation on the side), and no doubt they'll also dabble in jacking up AH prices and creating scarcity of goods so supply drives demand.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Yes it does. It doesn't have to be traded for gold to be currency. The gems themselves are already currency. To compare it in GW1 terms, its as if you would buy ectos in the cashshop.
On a side note : The comparison with rl is flawed to begin with. New gold is generated all the time as loot and questrewards. So these gems is a moneyprinting press on top of that endless supply of gold. So it just makes inflation happen faster.
As long as a person can't "plex" their way to a sword of +100 badassery I really don't care.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what you win and how you go about it with this new Pay to Win scheme.
You have followed this game enough to know that it isn't that type of game.
I hope many do so that it funds a bunch of new content.
I really really hope that this is some April fools day setup. I just can't believe they came up with this.
I'm waiting to honestly, meantime I'm eating popcorn/pizza drinnking lemonade/koolaid.
Honestly this was one or my worries set at ease.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
That is interesting. I didn't know the AH was cross-server. But why wouldn't it ultimately cause mat inflation anyway, if you can buy the gems to trade for gold to buy mats? Servers surely won't be that unique in their behaviours. My point is that it is not 'neutral,' even if the supply of gold is fixed, as mats will not be.
But your response does make me wonder - can you buy stuff in the AH with gems as opposed to in-game gold? Is there some sort of conversion option there? Thanks for your considered reply, by the way.
Honestly don't know why there is this sudden exitement, nothing has changed. How is this any less acceptable from what you thought before the announcement?
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Yep, exactly my point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The difference is that D3 is a gear grind, GW2 is not. Why do you keep asuming the game is WoW?
Gems are currency for cash shop only. The only thing you can do in game with them is trade them to other players. There is no NPC that will trade gems for gold for example.
Aye I feel you on that bro. I hope they try buy spending cash, more content.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
People that understand how the game will work, recognise that there is nothing wring with this system for this particualr game. Even better this system counters the gold sellers.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)