boxes are found not bought to my knowledge the keys are bought. but im not convinced that i cant find keys yet.
you say they can buy diamonds sell for gold then buy the best gear. but STAT wise the best gear is easily obtained by anyone. the stats in gw2 plateau theres no pvp armor with additional % def and att, level 80 max stat armor will be on everyone thats level 80, the difference is how you look, there may be thousands of different level 80 armor but the stats will be the same
Ya I dont' really know. I wasn't following GW2. Yes box are found but you can buy it in auction house from people who found it.
So your saying everyone lvl80 will have the exact same stats, is that what you are saying? If that's the case I'm not sure why everyone is piss on guildwar2 forum about the box and keys. And apparently I think many people are piss. There must be something special inside the box, else I don't see why people would spend money just to open the box.
Hmm what in the cash shop isn't already in the game that can or can't get got by the game?
Can someone raise or lower prices of the gems?
Umm due to the mechanics of the game itself already negating "win" gameplay(Steam rolling content,being a God, 1 hit killing players, facerolling,permanent advatange, gear being the win factor) what will people be buying in order to Win.
Also what will people not have but can get by not paying a dime?
This is just some questions that haven't been answered, I'm curious to see what the answers are as of right now.
Loaded question really, because we can't go into detail about the leaks. Speaking hypothetically though..
I don't really mind a cash shop unless it throws itself in my face. Like say I loot something and I have to purchase a key to open it, like we see in a game such as STO. Do I need that item ? No. Do I need to pay to use it? Yes. That's a cash shop interposing on my experience, and it's something I personally don't like.
Will those kind of things make it into GW2? Don't really know, but I definitely don't want to see them make it in.
We have to keep in mind that right now they're gauging what they can and can not add for launch. SO it's hard to make a definiitive conclusion on GW2's cash-shop.
Personally I'd rather pay a sub, and not have these types of things in my games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If NCSoft can't resist the cash shop greed, I'd say it's just not a viable option to make a AAA B2P MMO without a cash shop. The model should be sell boxes and expansions.
boxes are found not bought to my knowledge the keys are bought. but im not convinced that i cant find keys yet.
you say they can buy diamonds sell for gold then buy the best gear. but STAT wise the best gear is easily obtained by anyone. the stats in gw2 plateau theres no pvp armor with additional % def and att, level 80 max stat armor will be on everyone thats level 80, the difference is how you look, there may be thousands of different level 80 armor but the stats will be the same
Ya I dont' really know. I wasn't following GW2. Yes box are found but you can buy it in auction house from people who found it.
So your saying everyone lvl80 will have the exact same stats, is that what you are saying? If that's the case I'm not sure why everyone is piss on guildwar2 forum about the box and keys. And apparently I think many people are piss. There must be something special inside the box, else I don't see why people would spend money just to open the box.
yes everyone will have the same stats on gear, all clothies will have the same base stats all medium will have the same base stats and all heavy will have the same base stats. People are pissed because someone can pay money to get something that someone else works for pretty much
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
I had already decided GW2 was not for me a few weeks ago, but this cash shop stinks worse and worse every week. Total rip in my opinion. They have the nerve to put a F2P type pay-to-win cash shop and charge you $60 up front for it?!?!?!
Funny how people thought they were changing the payment model for the better. Instead, they are changing it for the worse. Charging you $60 for a F2P cash shop game. LOL
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
Its ridiculous. I'm very annoyed at this now. And again, I fully admit I was on/off/on/off the bandwagon a few times over the last year about GW2 and finally decided it wasn't for me a few weeks ago. But this cash shop is just pathetic. It is totally pay2win and charging you $60 just to then have to pay2win. Not only do you buy experience, karma, and RvRvR capabilities faster, you can also pretty much buy the cool looking stuff too that otherwise you need to work for. There is absolutely no reason to play this game now and it is completely off my radar now.
Its disgusting. I'm not touching this game with a 100 foot pole now...
And that is just the cash shop they are starting with. Just wait until a few months in AFTER they suckered a bunch of people into the $60 box...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I don't see where Anet lied to anyone. Even looking at what's been revealed of the items in the shop (presuming by the way it's legitimately what's on the market when it goes live), there's still no clear indicator that any item from the shop gives any player a permanent power advantage over a player without.
Any of the conveience items (xp bonuses, etc) mean that person gets a level/karma reward a little faster than a player without. It doesn't bother me that I might need ot farm for a couple more days that someone else to get an item. Hell that's gonna happen anyway, because unlikes some I won't dedicate 10+ hours a day to a game and make it my whole life. No offense to those that do; that's just not my thing.
The only potentionally worrisome items are the ones that give loot (magic keys, item bags). Thus far however:
1) We do not know whether the keys can be obtained without gems.
2) We do not know if there are any items exclusive to chests/item bags that are superior to anything else.
3) We do not know the % chance of getting a decent item from these things.
Until we know those, any fear that a player could use them to buy his way to top-flight gear, ignoring Karma and Incluence and Glory entirely, is nothng more than conjecture.
I'll believe they are telling the truth until I can see it blatantly proven as a lie. With facts. Even with the screenshots I've seen today, we have a LOT of conjecture.
They didn't lie. But they played with words to give the impression that they were creating a game where once you bought it, you were free and clear to enjoy all it has to offer with no further expense....
Well, unless you wanted some frilly fluff items or skill paks.
That is what they sold people on. That is not exaclty what they are delivering
Lol so what is the item you'll need to enjoy all of what the game has to offer with no further expenses aside from expansions?
The "Item" in question is GW2 itself.
Am I wrong is saying that's what ANet portrayed? I am not saying they said it. I am saying they made it seem that way.
If I am misinformed, I'll be more than happy to admit that and to clarify my statement.
But if I am right in what ANet originally portrayed GW2 to be....
Then I am not the one who has to justify anything.
Tell me something when did they say there won't be a cash shop?
Also what in the cash shop is p2w or anything terrible at the moment?
What are they delivering?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
Yea except you can get them from the cash shop too using in game money.
All this doesnt bother me a bit, because Im really not all that competitive in mmorpgs. Being the "best" or whatever isnt really a feasible option. I tend to do pretty darn well and I dont need any extra junk to do it.
Im not really concerned with what others do. Im just there to have fun. Im more focused on the core mechanics of the game that will allow me to have fun. This cash shop is just a side show, and if there's just something I cant live without I'll make sure I get it by playing the game itself.
I can see all this being a bit more outrageous if it was a normal cash shop. Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
Except that people keep forgetting that the cash shop is completely optional. OPTIONAL. Hope that helps. Even if there is something you feel you must have from the CS, then buy it. The game has no sub. I know I personally planned on buying a couple things such as character slots and bank/bag spaces. Now I can grind them if that is the way I want to go about it. People need to keep the optional in perspective. Not saying the way Anet is going about it is a for sure thing nor do I know what's going to be in the CS, but the game isn't even out yet so lets try to keep the doom and gloom to a manageable level please. My god reading these forums has made me feel like I was reading the guru.
Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
Except that people keep forgetting that the cash shop is completely optional. OPTIONAL. Hope that helps. Even if there is something you feel you must have from the CS, then buy it. The game has no sub. I know I personally planned on buying a couple things such as character slots and bank/bag spaces. Now I can grind them if that is the way I want to go about it. People need to keep the optional in perspective. Not saying the way Anet is going about it is a for sure thing nor do I know what's going to be in the CS, but the game isn't even out yet so lets try to keep the doom and gloom to a manageable level please. My god reading these forums has made me feel like I was reading the guru.
The idea of a B2P MMO you payed for once and never had to pay anything ever again and got to play forever for free after that initial purchase...
Definitely a dream.
MMOs are simply too expensive to make, maintain, and upgrade (quality ones of course)
No not really if they actually put effort into expanding the game via expansion packs instead of free updates then they indeed could do a B2P product with out a cash shop and still improve upon initial product.
Has anyone linked the guildwars2 blog post about buying and selling gold/gems which ultimately makes everything available in the cash shop available to all players, even those not willing to make extra payments?
Further the concept of exp boost seems irrelevant with GW2 model of sidekicking or getting boosted in pvp areas.
More Karma/Gold I could see as being beneficial but more exp would only have you leveling faster than the area you're currently exploring in.
Further they stated how they're against concepts of pay to win and wouldn't have unbalancing items in the cash shop so people have an obvious advantage for paying extra.
The only thing I absolutely hope they do is to remove megaphones. Or for the love of god and all that is holy at least let me block the people using them.
Local chat from gw1 random arena has me cringe enough... If that were to infest the whole area I may have to commit digital suicide by plunging myself off the highest cliff I could find.
i love how people like the OP talks about Buy to Play games not having enough income from boxes that ehy have to rely on cash shop. The boxes are enough to make the profit they need, add to that the price of services and expansions. The extra cash they make with cash shop is an "extra" just like a monthly sub is an "extra".
Its actually funny when people compare buy to play games with free to play games. Free to play games have zero source of income so they have to force cash shop with anything that the player can take advantage of (pay to win at some point). Buy to play games have a source of income already so they dont need to screw the game and the community with pay to win, unless the company is full of wallet-thirsty creeps. ANET have proven so far they are not wallet hunters.
Dont make any assumptions until we see the actual product up and running.
why not enjoy a good buy to play game and help the starving children of your country instead of helping the developers children for 15 a month? lol...
Has anyone linked the guildwars2 blog post about buying and selling gold/gems which ultimately makes everything available in the cash shop available to all players, even those not willing to make extra payments?
That's same with many pay2win games. Everything in cash shop is tradable, dont mean it's fair. The main thing is how much advantage people that use cash shop have over than those who don't. And that no one knows, we'll have to wait for more information.
We really need to know what's inside the loot bag and more info on the mystic chest etc to find out. But you guys seemed quite convince it's all cosmetic in it.
Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
Oh I will so have fun. I promise you that. Have you even watched or looked at info on this game!? Its outstanding. And we knew there was going to be a cash shop all along. Only now do we find out that you don't necessarily have to pay real cash to get those items. Its not a cash wall where the items are just not attainable unless cash is paid.
And people who seemed to be awful quiet about the "cash shop" are now freaking out just over that. Thats a GOOD THING. Not a bad one. This is GOOD news.
Unless you just had your head buried in the sand, or ignored the fact the game was going to have a cash shop up until now. Which must be the thing I guess. Have so many people just been in denial until this point? Its been there all along. Like I said, we just found out that we dont necessarily have to pay cash to get those items.
Far better than the old run of the mill cash shop I thought we'd be getting.
Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
Oh I will so have fun. I promise you that. Have you even watched or looked at info on this game!? Its outstanding. And we knew there was going to be a cash shop all along. Only now do we find out that you don't necessarily have to pay real cash to get those items. Its not a cash wall where the items are just not attainable unless cash is paid.
And people who seemed to be awful quiet about the "cash shop" are now freaking out just over that. Thats a GOOD THING. Not a bad one. This is GOOD news.
Unless you just had your head buried in the sand, or ignored the fact the game was going to have a cash shop up until now. Which must be the thing I guess. Have so many people just been in denial until this point? Its been there all along. Like I said, we just found out that we dont necessarily have to pay cash to get those items.
Far better than the old run of the mill cash shop I thought we'd be getting.
Actually the items are unattainable if cash is not paid, there isn't an npc that lets you buy gems for gold, you have to purchase them from another player, someone has to pay cash for those gems before they can be traded. Which means market demands will change, if golds value drops quickly noone is going to be wanting to sell the gems they just bought.
I mean pretty much anything you can buy with gold can also be purchased with gems, so whats the incentive for someone to want to sell their gems for less valuable gold. Even gold sink like a repair bill doesn't work here when you can buy a repair kit and save yourself the hassle of going back to town.
Unless you just had your head buried in the sand, or ignored the fact the game was going to have a cash shop up until now. Which must be the thing I guess. Have so many people just been in denial until this point? Its been there all along. Like I said, we just found out that we dont necessarily have to pay cash to get those items.
Far better than the old run of the mill cash shop I thought we'd be getting.
Where is the info coming from that "everything" available for RL cash will be attainable in game?
That's not my understanding at all due to statements made. If you mean you can grind out gold to buy gems then sure, but well yeah, that's a grind and how is that acceptable? I shouldn't have to farm to get the crap I want IMO.
Their statement in a barebones fashion was they don't feel players should be able to buy an advantage with cash over time.
Think for at least a second about this:
"Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."
No where in here does it say if we sell a key in the cash shop it will also be available in the game.
Nor does it even hint at that. Because items like that would be there to promote sales. It would be counter productive to do it any different.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
But I believe you can get the cool looking sword too. You have two options:
1. Spend real money
2. Spend in-game currency
Provided that the grind is NOT unbearable to earn the in-game money(this we do not know yet), the only difference now is how the process of buying the sword breaks immersion. Had there been no cash shop you would have grinded the mob instead.
Unless you just had your head buried in the sand, or ignored the fact the game was going to have a cash shop up until now. Which must be the thing I guess. Have so many people just been in denial until this point? Its been there all along. Like I said, we just found out that we dont necessarily have to pay cash to get those items.
Far better than the old run of the mill cash shop I thought we'd be getting.
Where is the info coming from that "everything" available for RL cash will be attainable in game?
That's not my understanding at all due to statements made. If you mean you can grind out gold to buy gems then sure, but well yeah, that's a grind and how is that acceptable? I shouldn't have to farm to get the crap I want IMO.
Their statement in a barebones fashion was they don't feel players should be able to buy an advantage with cash over time.
Think for at least a second about this:
"Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."
No where in here does it say if we sell a key in the cash shop it will also be available in the game.
Nor does it even hint at that. Because items like that would be there to promote sales. It would be counter productive to do it any different.
Gems are bought with real cash. Gems can be put up for auction by other players who have bought them with cash. Then you buy them with gold. So everything is availabe to buy as long as you have gold.
Yes prices on gems will flucuate some, but I figure it will not be over much. Just like EvE's Plex system, they usually stayed somewhere around 320 million ISK. Sometimes more, sometimes less but usually around there, at least when I played.
As long as Anet manages its economy well, gems will have a solid value (sold in stacks of 100). So as long as you buy the gems at auction, then you will be able to access the cash shop and buy anything with the gems.
Yes some items may only be cash shop exclusive, but by playing the game and earning some gold, you can go to the auction, buy the gems, and the gems are currency for the cash shop. So everything in the cash shop can be earned by just playing the game and earning gold.
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
But I believe you can get the cool looking sword too. You have two options:
1. Spend real money
2. Spend in-game currency
Provided that the grind is NOT unbearable to earn the in-game money(this we do not know yet), the only difference now is how the process of buying the sword breaks immersion. Had there been no cash shop you would have grinded the mob instead.
I never said I couldn't get it, but you'd have to be blind to not have heard people posting on these very forums how difficult guild wars 2 would be and your normal 'wow kid' would never be able to obtain the rare loot in this game because it was difficult. Now I understand that nothing is known about the loot bags, but if its 'good' rares and from a business perspective they will have stuff in them that makes them worth buying otherwise they wouldn't sell and its their job to make them sell.
But even the worst wow player, puts forth more effort doing nothing more then auto-attacking a boss, then a person who buys a loot bag and gets a rare drop.
Just for clarity, below is a link the "recent events". I truly can't see how anyone could say these items are evenly remotely anything other than conveniences. If you think you are winning by getting a 10% exp boost, or crafting boost, or even get to rez on the spot, then you clearly have a different definition of "winning" (much like Charlie Sheens, IMO).
But certainthings in the CS have the "potential" to inconvenience or impact thoughs that don't pay for some items. It matters on how Anet implement them. The one that improves chances of perfect/or non-fail crafting can greatly change the playing field for crafting, time spent, economy for selling results, etc. Matters if Anet make decision on crafting success to be hard enough that crafters feel like they can't participate if they don't buy, that would severely impact there entertainment and value of game. And really good/unique items drop from those lock boxes where you need to buy the keys to open-well, that would really be a bad way to try and push people into the CS. It's too early get too worked up, but until we get clarification or play the game, it is worth talking about.
Comments
Ya I dont' really know. I wasn't following GW2. Yes box are found but you can buy it in auction house from people who found it.
So your saying everyone lvl80 will have the exact same stats, is that what you are saying? If that's the case I'm not sure why everyone is piss on guildwar2 forum about the box and keys. And apparently I think many people are piss. There must be something special inside the box, else I don't see why people would spend money just to open the box.
Loaded question really, because we can't go into detail about the leaks. Speaking hypothetically though..
I don't really mind a cash shop unless it throws itself in my face. Like say I loot something and I have to purchase a key to open it, like we see in a game such as STO. Do I need that item ? No. Do I need to pay to use it? Yes. That's a cash shop interposing on my experience, and it's something I personally don't like.
Will those kind of things make it into GW2? Don't really know, but I definitely don't want to see them make it in.
We have to keep in mind that right now they're gauging what they can and can not add for launch. SO it's hard to make a definiitive conclusion on GW2's cash-shop.
Personally I'd rather pay a sub, and not have these types of things in my games.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Apparently.
If NCSoft can't resist the cash shop greed, I'd say it's just not a viable option to make a AAA B2P MMO without a cash shop. The model should be sell boxes and expansions.
yes everyone will have the same stats on gear, all clothies will have the same base stats all medium will have the same base stats and all heavy will have the same base stats. People are pissed because someone can pay money to get something that someone else works for pretty much
I'm aware of the recent events the OP is talking about, but I'm not aware of the "recent events" that makes a lot of opportunistic pessimists scream of P2W on a supposedly B2P game.
The game isn't out, so we do not know how much "grinding" it would take for broke people to catch up to the "cash shop"-aholics. At this point the negativities are only coming from the pessimistic (and to an extent, the envious/greedy)nature of people. Everything is just in our heads. From what I know of this event the OP is referring to, nothing in the cash shop constitues a P2W item, but those with the abilities to bend reason and predict the future are too wary of how open the system is to eventual P2W conversion. Apparently they feel it's bound to happen. A bunch of paranoids.
SO to answer the OPs question, no. I don't think so. Until the game in question has been released and more time has passed that's the only time we can "prove" things. Right now everyone is just running around screaming out their theories.
I had already decided GW2 was not for me a few weeks ago, but this cash shop stinks worse and worse every week. Total rip in my opinion. They have the nerve to put a F2P type pay-to-win cash shop and charge you $60 up front for it?!?!?!
Funny how people thought they were changing the payment model for the better. Instead, they are changing it for the worse. Charging you $60 for a F2P cash shop game. LOL
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well I'm not happy with the cash shop items and it has nothing to do with whether those items are pay2win or not atleast not now. My problem is this scenario.
While leveling in a standard p2p mmo I see someone with a cool looking sword, being able to use swords myself I would like to know where I can get a sword like that. So I ask the guy and he tells me which mob it dropped off of, now I know where I can get said piece of gear.
Same scenario happens in gw2 and instead of telling me the mob he got it from he explains that he says loot bags were on sale yesterday and he grabbed 5 of them...
Did he pay to win? Nope I don't believe so, but it cheapens the in game 'rare' skin rewards when someone can get them from a cash shop item.
Its ridiculous. I'm very annoyed at this now. And again, I fully admit I was on/off/on/off the bandwagon a few times over the last year about GW2 and finally decided it wasn't for me a few weeks ago. But this cash shop is just pathetic. It is totally pay2win and charging you $60 just to then have to pay2win. Not only do you buy experience, karma, and RvRvR capabilities faster, you can also pretty much buy the cool looking stuff too that otherwise you need to work for. There is absolutely no reason to play this game now and it is completely off my radar now.
Its disgusting. I'm not touching this game with a 100 foot pole now...
And that is just the cash shop they are starting with. Just wait until a few months in AFTER they suckered a bunch of people into the $60 box...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Tell me something when did they say there won't be a cash shop?
Also what in the cash shop is p2w or anything terrible at the moment?
What are they delivering?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Yea except you can get them from the cash shop too using in game money.
All this doesnt bother me a bit, because Im really not all that competitive in mmorpgs. Being the "best" or whatever isnt really a feasible option. I tend to do pretty darn well and I dont need any extra junk to do it.
Im not really concerned with what others do. Im just there to have fun. Im more focused on the core mechanics of the game that will allow me to have fun. This cash shop is just a side show, and if there's just something I cant live without I'll make sure I get it by playing the game itself.
I can see all this being a bit more outrageous if it was a normal cash shop. Thankfully they've allowed for a way to get any cash shop item just by playing. So Im cool with that.
Yeah, by grinding. Just what people said this game was getting rid of. I'm repulsed by this whole thing to be honest. This cash shop is going to just get worse and worse and worse, and it is already to the point I wouldn't touch it with a 100 foot pole.
Have fun everybody paying $60 just for the right to play a F2P cash shop game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Except that people keep forgetting that the cash shop is completely optional. OPTIONAL. Hope that helps. Even if there is something you feel you must have from the CS, then buy it. The game has no sub. I know I personally planned on buying a couple things such as character slots and bank/bag spaces. Now I can grind them if that is the way I want to go about it. People need to keep the optional in perspective. Not saying the way Anet is going about it is a for sure thing nor do I know what's going to be in the CS, but the game isn't even out yet so lets try to keep the doom and gloom to a manageable level please. My god reading these forums has made me feel like I was reading the guru.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
All cash shops are always completely optional.
No not really if they actually put effort into expanding the game via expansion packs instead of free updates then they indeed could do a B2P product with out a cash shop and still improve upon initial product.
Has anyone linked the guildwars2 blog post about buying and selling gold/gems which ultimately makes everything available in the cash shop available to all players, even those not willing to make extra payments?
Further the concept of exp boost seems irrelevant with GW2 model of sidekicking or getting boosted in pvp areas.
More Karma/Gold I could see as being beneficial but more exp would only have you leveling faster than the area you're currently exploring in.
Further they stated how they're against concepts of pay to win and wouldn't have unbalancing items in the cash shop so people have an obvious advantage for paying extra.
The only thing I absolutely hope they do is to remove megaphones. Or for the love of god and all that is holy at least let me block the people using them.
Local chat from gw1 random arena has me cringe enough... If that were to infest the whole area I may have to commit digital suicide by plunging myself off the highest cliff I could find.
i love how people like the OP talks about Buy to Play games not having enough income from boxes that ehy have to rely on cash shop. The boxes are enough to make the profit they need, add to that the price of services and expansions. The extra cash they make with cash shop is an "extra" just like a monthly sub is an "extra".
Its actually funny when people compare buy to play games with free to play games. Free to play games have zero source of income so they have to force cash shop with anything that the player can take advantage of (pay to win at some point). Buy to play games have a source of income already so they dont need to screw the game and the community with pay to win, unless the company is full of wallet-thirsty creeps. ANET have proven so far they are not wallet hunters.
Dont make any assumptions until we see the actual product up and running.
why not enjoy a good buy to play game and help the starving children of your country instead of helping the developers children for 15 a month? lol...
That's same with many pay2win games. Everything in cash shop is tradable, dont mean it's fair. The main thing is how much advantage people that use cash shop have over than those who don't. And that no one knows, we'll have to wait for more information.
We really need to know what's inside the loot bag and more info on the mystic chest etc to find out. But you guys seemed quite convince it's all cosmetic in it.
Oh I will so have fun. I promise you that. Have you even watched or looked at info on this game!? Its outstanding. And we knew there was going to be a cash shop all along. Only now do we find out that you don't necessarily have to pay real cash to get those items. Its not a cash wall where the items are just not attainable unless cash is paid.
And people who seemed to be awful quiet about the "cash shop" are now freaking out just over that. Thats a GOOD THING. Not a bad one. This is GOOD news.
Unless you just had your head buried in the sand, or ignored the fact the game was going to have a cash shop up until now. Which must be the thing I guess. Have so many people just been in denial until this point? Its been there all along. Like I said, we just found out that we dont necessarily have to pay cash to get those items.
Far better than the old run of the mill cash shop I thought we'd be getting.
You can have a B2P model be succesful, I played GW1 for years and never spent any money other than the xpacs.
The cash shop in GW2 is fine and people need to relax.
Actually the items are unattainable if cash is not paid, there isn't an npc that lets you buy gems for gold, you have to purchase them from another player, someone has to pay cash for those gems before they can be traded. Which means market demands will change, if golds value drops quickly noone is going to be wanting to sell the gems they just bought.
I mean pretty much anything you can buy with gold can also be purchased with gems, so whats the incentive for someone to want to sell their gems for less valuable gold. Even gold sink like a repair bill doesn't work here when you can buy a repair kit and save yourself the hassle of going back to town.
Where is the info coming from that "everything" available for RL cash will be attainable in game?
That's not my understanding at all due to statements made. If you mean you can grind out gold to buy gems then sure, but well yeah, that's a grind and how is that acceptable? I shouldn't have to farm to get the crap I want IMO.
Their statement in a barebones fashion was they don't feel players should be able to buy an advantage with cash over time.
Think for at least a second about this:
"Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time."
No where in here does it say if we sell a key in the cash shop it will also be available in the game.
Nor does it even hint at that. Because items like that would be there to promote sales. It would be counter productive to do it any different.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But I believe you can get the cool looking sword too. You have two options:
1. Spend real money
2. Spend in-game currency
Provided that the grind is NOT unbearable to earn the in-game money(this we do not know yet), the only difference now is how the process of buying the sword breaks immersion. Had there been no cash shop you would have grinded the mob instead.
Gems are bought with real cash. Gems can be put up for auction by other players who have bought them with cash. Then you buy them with gold. So everything is availabe to buy as long as you have gold.
Yes prices on gems will flucuate some, but I figure it will not be over much. Just like EvE's Plex system, they usually stayed somewhere around 320 million ISK. Sometimes more, sometimes less but usually around there, at least when I played.
As long as Anet manages its economy well, gems will have a solid value (sold in stacks of 100). So as long as you buy the gems at auction, then you will be able to access the cash shop and buy anything with the gems.
Yes some items may only be cash shop exclusive, but by playing the game and earning some gold, you can go to the auction, buy the gems, and the gems are currency for the cash shop. So everything in the cash shop can be earned by just playing the game and earning gold.
I never said I couldn't get it, but you'd have to be blind to not have heard people posting on these very forums how difficult guild wars 2 would be and your normal 'wow kid' would never be able to obtain the rare loot in this game because it was difficult. Now I understand that nothing is known about the loot bags, but if its 'good' rares and from a business perspective they will have stuff in them that makes them worth buying otherwise they wouldn't sell and its their job to make them sell.
But even the worst wow player, puts forth more effort doing nothing more then auto-attacking a boss, then a person who buys a loot bag and gets a rare drop.
But certainthings in the CS have the "potential" to inconvenience or impact thoughs that don't pay for some items. It matters on how Anet implement them. The one that improves chances of perfect/or non-fail crafting can greatly change the playing field for crafting, time spent, economy for selling results, etc. Matters if Anet make decision on crafting success to be hard enough that crafters feel like they can't participate if they don't buy, that would severely impact there entertainment and value of game. And really good/unique items drop from those lock boxes where you need to buy the keys to open-well, that would really be a bad way to try and push people into the CS. It's too early get too worked up, but until we get clarification or play the game, it is worth talking about.