for the people looking for more power with character progression, seem like arenanet needs to take another page out of valve's l4d page and throw in a survior's mode, complete with random dynamic events and stats that show how long player(s) can hold out against a never ending increasing event chain assault. doing so will test your skills as a player and won't have anything to do with uber gear. knowledge is power. it would be a win for both parties. for arenanet in keeping true to their anti-gear grind approach and to players looking for true power in the form of skill as a player.
However, RP it will not be. You cannot have lore in a game where the same classes and races kill each other.
So free will = no lore? This sweeping statement feels pretty flawed to me. Correction: incredibly flawed.
If only there was some kind of reason for 1 person to kill someone else of their same race. Maybe if they were in 2 different guilds, and there was some sort of war between guilds. But this game doesn't sound like it would have anything like that.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
People who have played Guild Wars 1 for more than a year will feel right at home. People who raid will probably dislike and never play again.
Guild Wars 1 was about skill and knowledge. Guild Wars 2 is looking the same. Gear does matter but not in the way the MMO "raiders" think. All soldiers max armor value is 80, Scholars 60, Adventurers 70 and cant get any higher without the help of insginias.
Same for weapons there will be a max dmg value that will not get any higher for example, a weapon that you find in lvl 80 open world does as much damage as a weapon that you can find in an elite dungeon. Its all about the skins and bonuses.
People who want raiding just cant get these facts in their heads. They want to be powerful because they did a raid a thousand times. In GW2 you can do a dungeon as many times as you want at max lvl and get loot but you wont get any more powerful in terms of dmg or armor value on the items you get. You will however get cool skins.
There are color codes for rarity which means the weapon or armor may have more stats on it but not a higher numerical dmg or armor value.
There is a plateau of power. Raiders dont understand. All I can say is play Guild Wars 1. You hit max level , armor value is max easily, max dmg is on you weapons. Runes, weapon mods, insignias, define the playstyle. As far as prophecies went you hit lvl 20 about halfway through the content.
In Guild Wars 2 dynamic events make content infinite since they are repeatable. The Shatterer for instance comes back every now and then and each time you beat it you get some loot.
Don't worry there is always something to do in Guild Wars 2 wether it be dungeons, dynamic events, pvp, crafting, auctioning, role-playing. I guess you gotta immerse your own fantasy in stale MMOs these days. Funny how all these MMOs claim to be RPGs. Not an ounce of roleplaying in any of them really except for SwTor and now GW2. just because a game has leveling in it does not make it an RPG.
SOunds like a fun video game. However, RP it will not be. You cannot have lore in a game where the same classes and races kill each other. Age of Conan tried to feed the public with that shortyly before they went free to play. It is however a fun looking game -but that's all it is and has no intrinsic mmorpg value. If that doesn't make sense to you then either you work for the company or you're just wanting this to be more than it is.
Personally, I'm looking forward to its release so I can read carbon copy statements that were released about SW:ToR. Then we can all move on and hope for a real mmorpg down the road.
How is that not possible ? Maybe you could elaborate this idea please ?
which is exactly why all those examples of experience potions in the shop are nonsense because rushing to the end game in this game is missing the entire point of the game. "It's the journey that matters, not the destination" comes to mind.
Then why have them? Seems counter-intuitive to have items that go against the point of the game to enjoy the journey.
which is exactly why all those examples of experience potions in the shop are nonsense because rushing to the end game in this game is missing the entire point of the game. "It's the journey that matters, not the destination" comes to mind.
Then why have them? Seems counter-intuitive to have items that go against the point of the game to enjoy the journey.
which is exactly why all those examples of experience potions in the shop are nonsense because rushing to the end game in this game is missing the entire point of the game. "It's the journey that matters, not the destination" comes to mind.
Ha! How many times have I said that? And I agree.
If the journey is fun, then the cash shop doesn't bother me at all. And it's looking like the journey is very fun indeed. So then the cash shop becomes a 'good will' thing. You're having a great time so you throw some money at ArenaNet and get some cosmetic items or transmutation stones or whatever back out of it. That's how you do cash shops.
And really, I'm so happy about the power plateau in general. I'm going to play until I hit it and then start a new guy and enjoy the game all over again. I hope they have an ending, too. Ree has hinted at there being some kind of ending, and that's awesome. I'm thinking it'll probably be some kind of celebration in your home instance where you get to do a parade march with Destiny's Edge. That... would be amazing, and the perfect way to (optionally) retire a character.
which is exactly why all those examples of experience potions in the shop are nonsense because rushing to the end game in this game is missing the entire point of the game. "It's the journey that matters, not the destination" comes to mind.
Then why have them? Seems counter-intuitive to have items that go against the point of the game to enjoy the journey.
Because some people are dumb enough to buy them?
^^^
Pretty much.
Counts for Champions Online as well.
Really, people... you just don't know how true this is.
---
I mean, in CO, I've bought many (many) costume sets out of good will. I am more than happy to do that. So long as the game is making me happy, I'm happy to throw money at it. And I get cosmetic stuff from it!
There are experience boosters in CO, but I've never had to use one. You get from 1-40 so, so fast in CO that it just doesn't matter.
Y'want to know why I think they're there?
PvPers.
No, wait a minute. No. Hang on. Don't hit that reply button. I'm not hating on PvPers.
Let's say that a new PvPer wants to get to 35 to get a new profession into WvWvW as fast as they can...
Without continual progression in the power of your character (through either skills, levels, abilities, gear, territory control etc) you really don't have an MMORPG, which is exactly how I felt about GW1 and am starting to think GW2 is going to turn out.
I realize for some folks collecting cosmetics, acheivements, titles etc are a form of progression, but if it doesn't involve continously striving to improve your character's actual power, it's not likely to hold my interest for long.
And that's OK, there's some other titles out there more to my liking, and I'm sure GW2 will be good for 2 or 3 months of fun, which is what I got out of the first game.
One might argue that rather than say endgame is at level 1, GW2 really doesn't have an endgame at all.
There is a difference.
That's the only thing I'm afraid of too. It's the same reason why I don't play FPS that much, the lack of character progression. I just hope GW2 offers some kind of character progression at endgame, or that the PvP is incredibly fun to make up for it.
I agree. I play MMO's to build a character. I see GW2 as a nice side game after the leveling process is finished.
Ironically, I see both SWTOR and GW2 not being capable of being the next MMO you could play for years on end. SWTOR you just run out of story/content and there is nothing left to do. While GW2 you hit max everything in a short time and have to hope that PvP will keep you entertained. GW2's issues will be with lack of character building, you will need to enjoy the game like a console game, throw it in for a few minutes of fun every now and then.
Without continual progression in the power of your character (through either skills, levels, abilities, gear, territory control etc) you really don't have an MMORPG, which is exactly how I felt about GW1 and am starting to think GW2 is going to turn out.
I realize for some folks collecting cosmetics, acheivements, titles etc are a form of progression, but if it doesn't involve continously striving to improve your character's actual power, it's not likely to hold my interest for long.
And that's OK, there's some other titles out there more to my liking, and I'm sure GW2 will be good for 2 or 3 months of fun, which is what I got out of the first game.
One might argue that rather than say endgame is at level 1, GW2 really doesn't have an endgame at all.
There is a difference.
That's the only thing I'm afraid of too. It's the same reason why I don't play FPS that much, the lack of character progression. I just hope GW2 offers some kind of character progression at endgame, or that the PvP is incredibly fun to make up for it.
I agree. I play MMO's to build a character. I see GW2 as a nice side game after the leveling process is finished.
Ironically, I see both SWTOR and GW2 not being capable of being the next MMO you could play for years on end. SWTOR you just run out of story/content and there is nothing left to do. While GW2 you hit max everything in a short time and have to hope that PvP will keep you entertained. GW2's issues will be with lack of character building, you will need to enjoy the game like a console game, throw it in for a few minutes of fun every now and then.
Pretty much every other MMO fits into your criteria regarding character 'progression'. Let people have their one MMO where gear progression doesn't matter. Not every game is going to cater to everyone.
A lot of Core-MMO'ers need to keep one thing in mind:
Arenanet isn't depriving you of automatically-better Stats for Raiding because they disagree with your idea of "Purpose". Your idea of purpose is just as valid as anyone else's is and some of us long-time veterans CAN and DO respect that. We also know how it is when you've got a lot of time to fill and you run out of meaningful progression. We feel ya. We know you may want something more structural out of a game once you beat it the first time. Maybe you don't get a whole lot out of hanging out with the same people every night doing silly stuff to waste time?? Maybe your social validation comes from a material posession that automatically makes you better than your friends? Anet knows this better than anyone. They're also hardcore gamers. Just watch Jon Peters twitch out about various gaming topics & strategies in almost any random interview he's in....
ANET DOES CARE.
And it's because they care, that they're not going to exploit you. They want you to have a healthy relationship with their game. Even if you get bored with it quickly, the worst thing you'll be able to look back and do; is say you got bored only a few weeks after reaching max level... Now compare that with: "that other game stole 3 years of my life from me and now I can't even play it anymore!!". ...like so many other MMO's that I won't name here.
In Guild Wars 2 dynamic events make content infinite since they are repeatable. The Shatterer for instance comes back every now and then and each time you beat it you get some loot.
You describe it like an "Open World Instance", Sorta like an instance dungeon set on repeat for any level. I don't know about you but I get sick of doing instances after 4 or 5 goes at it.
I understand its different per person. I really like doing dungeons, maybe because I like grouping and playing with other players or like the co-op. im not quite sure. definitely can say i like doing dungeons a bit more than 'questing'. but with dynamic events, i think it'll be fun and a good experience
A lot of Core-MMO'ers need to keep one thing in mind:
is say you got bored only a few weeks after reaching max level... Now compare that with: "that other game stole 3 years of my life from me and now I can't even play it anymore!!". ...like so many other MMO's that I won't name here.
Explain this a bit, because from my understanding of your statement is that a player could have played XX game for 3 years then decided he was completely burned out and if that said person plays GW2 he will be burned out within a few weeks?
You don't play a game for 3 years w/o having fun with it, even if you never reach max level. You're sticking around because you're enjoying it. Do explain, please.
Of course. Imagine people having to spend money on the P2P/P2W games that are actually designed around persistent content to get their raid fixes!
I suppose there will be room in peoples' lives for both GW2 and SWToR/Tera/WoW etc... so GW2 won't be the end of all games as a vocal minority is claiming.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I want progression, those stats make me feel like I accomplish something. Sure, I'm totally okay with pvp being all the same strength and all but I want something to 'progress' with, otherwise it becomes boring. I'm one that doesn't believe gear = skill either (trust me, in Rift I'm the tank but I'll toss over and dps and show up the main dps warriors no problem with lesser gear) I just like having something to earn, and gear was one of those things. It doesn't need to be anything massive just getting a little better is what I like. Its a huge reason i like the Planar Attunement in rift (Simular to Everquest AA if your more familiar though with a bit simpler design).
I don't need gear to be happy, i just like having made progress on my character, even if its such a tiny value of difference I can find enjoyment out of it. Getting absolutely nothing out of it just is so... meh... I can only go so far before repetition sets in and I I feel like I'm accomplishing absolutely nothing.
A far as "Dynamic' events go, Rift has those and so do a lot of other games, but you can't really claim it will make things 'infinite'. They will always have repetative patterns behind it and in the end will become boring. Its sad, I know, but thats the truth about all games. Sure there are always things to do in GW2 but there are for other games as well, the issue comes that people eventually tire out of those things and they become 'bored' since nothing appeals to them.
I want progression, those stats make me feel like I accomplish something. Sure, I'm totally okay with pvp being all the same strength and all but I want something to 'progress' with, otherwise it becomes boring. I'm one that doesn't believe gear = skill either (trust me, in Rift I'm the tank but I'll toss over and dps and show up the main dps warriors no problem with lesser gear) I just like having something to earn, and gear was one of those things. It doesn't need to be anything massive just getting a little better is what I like. Its a huge reason i like the Planar Attunement in rift (Simular to Everquest AA if your more familiar though with a bit simpler design).
I don't need gear to be happy, i just like having made progress on my character, even if its such a tiny value of difference I can find enjoyment out of it. Getting absolutely nothing out of it just is so... meh... I can only go so far before repetition sets in and I I feel like I'm accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Why does progression have to be stat based?
I think the best thing about GW2 is that the best looking gear will come from the hardest to beat instances, no more stat grind hamster wheel.
I support this thread! Too bad the people who like to raid won't see it as they are still paying to play. They won't be stopped. Good I don't want them in Guild Wars 2 anyways. Nobody likes to put up with an elitist raiders attitude I would rather enjoy the game and have fun.
guild wars 1 was a horrible game. The draw to GW1 has to be the B2P aspect of it...it can't be the gameplay. Believe me, I have tried it many times since it is a no sub game. But, free isn't always good if the game stinks. I have many friends that play it, but I just don't get it.
guild wars 1 was a horrible game. The draw to GW1 has to be the B2P aspect of it...it can't be the gameplay. Believe me, I have tried it many times since it is a no sub game. But, free isn't always good if the game stinks. I have many friends that play it, but I just don't get it.
guild wars 1 was a horrible game. The draw to GW1 has to be the B2P aspect of it...it can't be the gameplay. Believe me, I have tried it many times since it is a no sub game. But, free isn't always good if the game stinks. I have many friends that play it, but I just don't get it.
Opinion is not fact.
Sorry...I meant to state that it was only my opinion.
guild wars 1 was a horrible game. The draw to GW1 has to be the B2P aspect of it...it can't be the gameplay. Believe me, I have tried it many times since it is a no sub game. But, free isn't always good if the game stinks. I have many friends that play it, but I just don't get it.
I understand that there's no such thing as an optimal preference, but.. I'm not sure what dimension you're from, or if you merely started playing GW1 recently.
For its time, it was great: It was an action-oriented online RPG with great organized group PvP. It was and still is basically a refined version of WoWs PvP with one less degree of freedom.
For people who need an extra degree of freedom, more buttons to mash and a PvE element, it's clearly not recommended and neither is GW2.
Guild Wars = War between guilds created by players in the game => PvP - oriented action game with RPG elements (the leveling part)
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Sure I understand. But as you well know around here, so many people seem to try to pass their opinions off as facts. Yes, I know GW2 fans do it a lot as well.
@OP, you're absolutely right. People didn't like GW1 because they couldn't get more powerful. People didn't like GW1 because you had a limited skill bar. These can be (and most likely are) major deal-breakers for a lot of people. GW1 was more appealing to RPG players and non-MMO players. Most MMO players despised the idea of limited skill bar and level playing field.
In a sense GW2 adopts a lot from GW1 and it's not a completely different game which seems to be what most people think. If you take out the persistent world, the game philosophy is the same.
nice generalization.. who are all these players and what source are you getting this from?
EVE is most definitely a MMORPG of infinite progression, no matter how long you play if you have one avatar you will never run out of advancement to your avatar's "power".
DAOC was a lot like this back in the day. Sure, there were some hardcore folks (handful) who managed to make Realm Rank 10/10, but in my case I never came close, RR 7 was as far as i ever got and they eventually pushed the RR's up to 12 or even 15 i think.
Lineage 1 did it with levels, there was no level cap, however they redoubled the experience from level 49 onwards. Meaning to go from 49 to 50 took as much exp as it took to get from 1-49.
Add in the fact you lost explevels from dying, even in sieges and I frequently found myself reset back to 42 or 43 from my peak of 49. (never made 50)
So it's possible to keep the advancement going forward (I find gear grinding to be one of the worst however, but that's just me)
Not exactly coincedence that DAOC, EVE, and AC were three MMOs I played longer than any others - and never got even close to the realm rank cap, skill cap, or even AC's level cap, because of how crazy steep the xp curve was. Very few players capped out in those games.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comments
for the people looking for more power with character progression, seem like arenanet needs to take another page out of valve's l4d page and throw in a survior's mode, complete with random dynamic events and stats that show how long player(s) can hold out against a never ending increasing event chain assault. doing so will test your skills as a player and won't have anything to do with uber gear. knowledge is power. it would be a win for both parties. for arenanet in keeping true to their anti-gear grind approach and to players looking for true power in the form of skill as a player.
So free will = no lore? This sweeping statement feels pretty flawed to me. Correction: incredibly flawed.
If only there was some kind of reason for 1 person to kill someone else of their same race. Maybe if they were in 2 different guilds, and there was some sort of war between guilds. But this game doesn't sound like it would have anything like that.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
How is that not possible ? Maybe you could elaborate this idea please ?
Lolipops !
Then why have them? Seems counter-intuitive to have items that go against the point of the game to enjoy the journey.
Because some people are dumb enough to buy them?
Ha! How many times have I said that? And I agree.
If the journey is fun, then the cash shop doesn't bother me at all. And it's looking like the journey is very fun indeed. So then the cash shop becomes a 'good will' thing. You're having a great time so you throw some money at ArenaNet and get some cosmetic items or transmutation stones or whatever back out of it. That's how you do cash shops.
And really, I'm so happy about the power plateau in general. I'm going to play until I hit it and then start a new guy and enjoy the game all over again. I hope they have an ending, too. Ree has hinted at there being some kind of ending, and that's awesome. I'm thinking it'll probably be some kind of celebration in your home instance where you get to do a parade march with Destiny's Edge. That... would be amazing, and the perfect way to (optionally) retire a character.
So excited.
^^^
Pretty much.
Counts for Champions Online as well.
Really, people... you just don't know how true this is.
---
I mean, in CO, I've bought many (many) costume sets out of good will. I am more than happy to do that. So long as the game is making me happy, I'm happy to throw money at it. And I get cosmetic stuff from it!
There are experience boosters in CO, but I've never had to use one. You get from 1-40 so, so fast in CO that it just doesn't matter.
Y'want to know why I think they're there?
PvPers.
No, wait a minute. No. Hang on. Don't hit that reply button. I'm not hating on PvPers.
Let's say that a new PvPer wants to get to 35 to get a new profession into WvWvW as fast as they can...
Just think about it.
I agree. I play MMO's to build a character. I see GW2 as a nice side game after the leveling process is finished.
Ironically, I see both SWTOR and GW2 not being capable of being the next MMO you could play for years on end. SWTOR you just run out of story/content and there is nothing left to do. While GW2 you hit max everything in a short time and have to hope that PvP will keep you entertained. GW2's issues will be with lack of character building, you will need to enjoy the game like a console game, throw it in for a few minutes of fun every now and then.
Pretty much every other MMO fits into your criteria regarding character 'progression'. Let people have their one MMO where gear progression doesn't matter. Not every game is going to cater to everyone.
the real fun is playing and progressing during the game lvl dont matter it come in the way but is not somthing you need to mention .
A lot of Core-MMO'ers need to keep one thing in mind:
Arenanet isn't depriving you of automatically-better Stats for Raiding because they disagree with your idea of "Purpose". Your idea of purpose is just as valid as anyone else's is and some of us long-time veterans CAN and DO respect that. We also know how it is when you've got a lot of time to fill and you run out of meaningful progression. We feel ya. We know you may want something more structural out of a game once you beat it the first time. Maybe you don't get a whole lot out of hanging out with the same people every night doing silly stuff to waste time?? Maybe your social validation comes from a material posession that automatically makes you better than your friends? Anet knows this better than anyone. They're also hardcore gamers. Just watch Jon Peters twitch out about various gaming topics & strategies in almost any random interview he's in....
ANET DOES CARE.
And it's because they care, that they're not going to exploit you. They want you to have a healthy relationship with their game. Even if you get bored with it quickly, the worst thing you'll be able to look back and do; is say you got bored only a few weeks after reaching max level... Now compare that with: "that other game stole 3 years of my life from me and now I can't even play it anymore!!". ...like so many other MMO's that I won't name here.
I understand its different per person. I really like doing dungeons, maybe because I like grouping and playing with other players or like the co-op. im not quite sure. definitely can say i like doing dungeons a bit more than 'questing'. but with dynamic events, i think it'll be fun and a good experience
Explain this a bit, because from my understanding of your statement is that a player could have played XX game for 3 years then decided he was completely burned out and if that said person plays GW2 he will be burned out within a few weeks?
You don't play a game for 3 years w/o having fun with it, even if you never reach max level. You're sticking around because you're enjoying it. Do explain, please.
It's good because everything is at raid or 3 man difficulty but still soloable straight up.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Of course. Imagine people having to spend money on the P2P/P2W games that are actually designed around persistent content to get their raid fixes!
I suppose there will be room in peoples' lives for both GW2 and SWToR/Tera/WoW etc... so GW2 won't be the end of all games as a vocal minority is claiming.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I want progression, those stats make me feel like I accomplish something. Sure, I'm totally okay with pvp being all the same strength and all but I want something to 'progress' with, otherwise it becomes boring. I'm one that doesn't believe gear = skill either (trust me, in Rift I'm the tank but I'll toss over and dps and show up the main dps warriors no problem with lesser gear) I just like having something to earn, and gear was one of those things. It doesn't need to be anything massive just getting a little better is what I like. Its a huge reason i like the Planar Attunement in rift (Simular to Everquest AA if your more familiar though with a bit simpler design).
I don't need gear to be happy, i just like having made progress on my character, even if its such a tiny value of difference I can find enjoyment out of it. Getting absolutely nothing out of it just is so... meh... I can only go so far before repetition sets in and I I feel like I'm accomplishing absolutely nothing.
A far as "Dynamic' events go, Rift has those and so do a lot of other games, but you can't really claim it will make things 'infinite'. They will always have repetative patterns behind it and in the end will become boring. Its sad, I know, but thats the truth about all games. Sure there are always things to do in GW2 but there are for other games as well, the issue comes that people eventually tire out of those things and they become 'bored' since nothing appeals to them.
Why does progression have to be stat based?
I think the best thing about GW2 is that the best looking gear will come from the hardest to beat instances, no more stat grind hamster wheel.
I support this thread! Too bad the people who like to raid won't see it as they are still paying to play. They won't be stopped. Good I don't want them in Guild Wars 2 anyways. Nobody likes to put up with an elitist raiders attitude I would rather enjoy the game and have fun.
guild wars 1 was a horrible game. The draw to GW1 has to be the B2P aspect of it...it can't be the gameplay. Believe me, I have tried it many times since it is a no sub game. But, free isn't always good if the game stinks. I have many friends that play it, but I just don't get it.
/2cents
Opinion is not fact.
Sorry...I meant to state that it was only my opinion.
I understand that there's no such thing as an optimal preference, but.. I'm not sure what dimension you're from, or if you merely started playing GW1 recently.
For its time, it was great: It was an action-oriented online RPG with great organized group PvP. It was and still is basically a refined version of WoWs PvP with one less degree of freedom.
For people who need an extra degree of freedom, more buttons to mash and a PvE element, it's clearly not recommended and neither is GW2.
Guild Wars = War between guilds created by players in the game => PvP - oriented action game with RPG elements (the leveling part)
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Sure I understand. But as you well know around here, so many people seem to try to pass their opinions off as facts. Yes, I know GW2 fans do it a lot as well.
nice generalization.. who are all these players and what source are you getting this from?
Not exactly coincedence that DAOC, EVE, and AC were three MMOs I played longer than any others - and never got even close to the realm rank cap, skill cap, or even AC's level cap, because of how crazy steep the xp curve was. Very few players capped out in those games.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.