A lot of Core-MMO'ers need to keep one thing in mind:
is say you got bored only a few weeks after reaching max level... Now compare that with: "that other game stole 3 years of my life from me and now I can't even play it anymore!!". ...like so many other MMO's that I won't name here.
Explain this a bit, because from my understanding of your statement is that a player could have played XX game for 3 years then decided he was completely burned out and if that said person plays GW2 he will be burned out within a few weeks?
You don't play a game for 3 years w/o having fun with it, even if you never reach max level. You're sticking around because you're enjoying it. Do explain, please.
I personally think most MMO players are masochists =P
I want progression, those stats make me feel like I accomplish something. Sure, I'm totally okay with pvp being all the same strength and all but I want something to 'progress' with, otherwise it becomes boring. I'm one that doesn't believe gear = skill either (trust me, in Rift I'm the tank but I'll toss over and dps and show up the main dps warriors no problem with lesser gear) I just like having something to earn, and gear was one of those things. It doesn't need to be anything massive just getting a little better is what I like. Its a huge reason i like the Planar Attunement in rift (Simular to Everquest AA if your more familiar though with a bit simpler design).
I don't need gear to be happy, i just like having made progress on my character, even if its such a tiny value of difference I can find enjoyment out of it. Getting absolutely nothing out of it just is so... meh... I can only go so far before repetition sets in and I I feel like I'm accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Why does progression have to be stat based?
I think the best thing about GW2 is that the best looking gear will come from the hardest to beat instances, no more stat grind hamster wheel.
Oh thank god, I much prefer the gear grind hamster wheel over the stat grind hamster wheel...
Not arguing either side of this, just pointing out those very same instances could be used for gaining stats or armor or gold. Doesn't matter what it is you're after.
Explain this a bit, because from my understanding of your statement is that a player could have played XX game for 3 years then decided he was completely burned out and if that said person plays GW2 he will be burned out within a few weeks?
You don't play a game for 3 years w/o having fun with it, even if you never reach max level. You're sticking around because you're enjoying it. Do explain, please.
I personally think most MMO players are masochists =P
Progression is part of what makes some games fun. Especially if it's deep and diverse, not just a bunch of cookie-cutter classes that level up exactly the same way. It's fun to see a character develop gradually. If it weren't, the entire RPG genre would be very different.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I want progression, those stats make me feel like I accomplish something. Sure, I'm totally okay with pvp being all the same strength and all but I want something to 'progress' with, otherwise it becomes boring. I'm one that doesn't believe gear = skill either (trust me, in Rift I'm the tank but I'll toss over and dps and show up the main dps warriors no problem with lesser gear) I just like having something to earn, and gear was one of those things. It doesn't need to be anything massive just getting a little better is what I like. Its a huge reason i like the Planar Attunement in rift (Simular to Everquest AA if your more familiar though with a bit simpler design).
I don't need gear to be happy, i just like having made progress on my character, even if its such a tiny value of difference I can find enjoyment out of it. Getting absolutely nothing out of it just is so... meh... I can only go so far before repetition sets in and I I feel like I'm accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Why does progression have to be stat based?
I think the best thing about GW2 is that the best looking gear will come from the hardest to beat instances, no more stat grind hamster wheel.
Oh thank god, I much prefer the gear grind hamster wheel over the stat grind hamster wheel...
Not arguing either side of this, just pointing out those very same instances could be used for gaining stats or armor or gold. Doesn't matter what it is you're after.
Except when its a stat grind you do A to get better gear to do B and then C. In GW2 its about looks and choice, there is nothing keeping me from doing B or C first or just keeping the gear I have, there is no required hamster wheel like other games because there is a stat cap at max level that no one can go over.
IMHO its a much better system, after 7 years of raiding I never want to do it again.
You don't play a game for 3 years w/o having fun with it, even if you never reach max level. You're sticking around because you're enjoying it. Do explain, please.
I agree but it depends which game and who you're playing with. Most casual Guilds never last that long or they run out of new things to do. So unless they're ultimately just a coffee clatch, you're looking at the OTHER DEFINITION of "Fun"... IE: the compulsion of a large percentage of RPG gamers to neurally path the rewards response directly to the Treadmill-Gear acquirement stimulous. I mean that's okay b/c that's just how some people are "Wired". It's just not as healthy for our society anymore where powercreep is really not necessary anymore for Survival.
Originally posted by Vhaln
Progression is part of what makes some games fun. Especially if it's deep and diverse, not just a bunch of cookie-cutter classes that level up exactly the same way. It's fun to see a character develop gradually. If it weren't, the entire RPG genre would be very different.
In both GW1 and GW2, characters DO develop gradually. However they hit their specialized power peak rather quickly and develop versatility after that. A big part of the development is also on the player himself to undertake by exploring in order to find alternative builds and strategies that make him more proficient in ALL areas of the Economy, not just the single purpose of the peak specialty build.
Then once they've done that, they get into even more advanced areas of repeating the process on multiple "Alts" who also get daily Bonuses or daily Objectives they can repeat for even more economic dominance.
Comments
I personally think most MMO players are masochists =P
Oh thank god, I much prefer the gear grind hamster wheel over the stat grind hamster wheel...
Not arguing either side of this, just pointing out those very same instances could be used for gaining stats or armor or gold. Doesn't matter what it is you're after.
Progression is part of what makes some games fun. Especially if it's deep and diverse, not just a bunch of cookie-cutter classes that level up exactly the same way. It's fun to see a character develop gradually. If it weren't, the entire RPG genre would be very different.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Except when its a stat grind you do A to get better gear to do B and then C. In GW2 its about looks and choice, there is nothing keeping me from doing B or C first or just keeping the gear I have, there is no required hamster wheel like other games because there is a stat cap at max level that no one can go over.
IMHO its a much better system, after 7 years of raiding I never want to do it again.
I agree but it depends which game and who you're playing with. Most casual Guilds never last that long or they run out of new things to do. So unless they're ultimately just a coffee clatch, you're looking at the OTHER DEFINITION of "Fun"... IE: the compulsion of a large percentage of RPG gamers to neurally path the rewards response directly to the Treadmill-Gear acquirement stimulous. I mean that's okay b/c that's just how some people are "Wired". It's just not as healthy for our society anymore where powercreep is really not necessary anymore for Survival.
In both GW1 and GW2, characters DO develop gradually. However they hit their specialized power peak rather quickly and develop versatility after that. A big part of the development is also on the player himself to undertake by exploring in order to find alternative builds and strategies that make him more proficient in ALL areas of the Economy, not just the single purpose of the peak specialty build.
Then once they've done that, they get into even more advanced areas of repeating the process on multiple "Alts" who also get daily Bonuses or daily Objectives they can repeat for even more economic dominance.