Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
The day they made gear the most important factor of MMO, which bled into single player RPG the genre took a big hit. Thankfully GW2 and some other games are starting to go the other way. RPG/MMO used to be about just playing for fun, exploring, socialising, these sort of things. Granted, there was always some gear factor but was never emphasized so much it seems outside of the past 4-5 years with games. There is a lot more to progressing your character than gaining +10 crit.
From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80. Gathering nodes are for everyone, so that means everyone can gather from a single node once before it goes away.
So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all?
Please stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.
It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.
Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
[Mod Edit]
You want us to tell you why we are playing the game, but were not allowed to say "for fun" ? HAHAHAHA!!
That is exactly why I am playing, FOR FUN!!!!!!!!!!
I dont need shiny things to make me feel important, but I would like to be on the leaderboard for seeing my enemies driven before me.
Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
History has proven you wrong, sir.
This system is the exact same as DAOC, and that game is still going, years later. The popularity was so high at one point, that RvR became synonymous with PvP.
The mechanics in GW2 are so refined, that players looking to chase that shiny piece of uber armor, so they can 1 shot people in the PvP zones, will be so utterly confused, they will quit and go back to WoW.
Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
History has proven you wrong, sir.
This system is the exact same as DAOC, and that game is still going, years later. The popularity was so high at one point, that RvR became synonymous with PvP.
The mechanics in GW2 are so refined, that players looking to chase that shiny piece of uber armor, so they can 1 shot people in the PvP zones, will be so utterly confused, they will quit and go back to WoW.
Makes me so happy, I could almost cry.
I am thinking that we are misunderstanding something, Or I may have said what I meant wrong.
I read what you say and it sounds like what I said....or meant to say anyway.
Basically, People who want the WoW system will tire and go back.
But I think I get it with the Console reference. But again, that was meant as a reference to people looking for the carrot system.
Edit:
I'll put it this way.
The way I see GW2, is that ultimately it's going to be a PVP Niche game. Albeit a rather large niche. But a PVP niche game that will appeal primarily to those who wish to PVP for the love of PVP itself and not what PVPing can reward tehm with.
There are many peopel who think they'll want GW2's system, but won't be nearly as "efective" as they were in thier other games. Because they relied so much on gear to make them so good. But really won't be able to adapt to the skill requirements of a more level playing field.
Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
History has proven you wrong, sir.
This system is the exact same as DAOC, and that game is still going, years later. The popularity was so high at one point, that RvR became synonymous with PvP.
The mechanics in GW2 are so refined, that players looking to chase that shiny piece of uber armor, so they can 1 shot people in the PvP zones, will be so utterly confused, they will quit and go back to WoW.
Makes me so happy, I could almost cry.
I am thinking that we are misunderstanding something, Or I may have said what I meant wrong.
I read what you say and it sounds like what I said....or meant to say anyway.
Basically, People who want the WoW system will tire and go back.
But I think I get it with the Console reference. But again, that was meant as a reference to people looking for the carrot system.
Edit:
I'll put it this way.
The way I see GW2, is that ultimately it's going to be a PVP Niche game. Albeit a rather large niche. But a PVP niche game that will appeal primarily to those who wish to PVP for the love of PVP itself and not what PVPing can reward tehm with.
There are many peopel who think they'll want GW2's system, but won't be nearly as "efective" as they were in thier other games. Because they relied so much on gear to make them so good. But really won't be able to adapt to the skill requirements of a more level playing field.
Meaning. People want advantages.
Your reasoning for people wanting advantages fails, and fails hard.
But no matter, because if they go back to WoW or whatever game rewards them for grinding, then its still a win for us playing GW2. So I see it as a win-win.
What is really odd, is that you say GW2 will be a niche game, but admit it will be a LARGE niche game, well sir, if the population is large, then its not a niche game.
The only point I see you trying desperatly to make, is that people will get tired of GW2 after a few months. Dude, that happens to every game that is ever made. So really, you got no points at all, just ramblings.
If you need a statistical advantage = the amount of time you put into this game (like every other themepark on the market), this is not the game for you.
If you want something different than the majority of gear treadmill themeparks that soak up the current market, this is the game for you.
Pretty simple. Anet has stuck to their vision of changing the mmo scene, and I applaud them for that. GW2 will not please everyone, but hey, you have tons of other options if getting more numbers means that much to you.
Couple of things yes the gear you get from Dungeons/DE's or just playing the game won't neccarily be better however it will have stats attached that are more focussed so for example if when your bosted you might get a sword that is say +20 across all stats. However if you run a max lvl dungeon you might find a sword that has 1 stat +30 and the rest +10. So it's not neccarily more powerful it's just more focused to a particular way of playing that character. The more sets of gear you have the more options you have in how you play that particular character but a boosted character still has a chance of taking you down.
The thing is what kills open world PvP more often than not is that at the start there are very few participants because it's not really viable to go there till you maxed out. Things get broken and abused by certain players and then the forums become a whine fest of how it's not fair because only these few people got to do this and no it's been made so they have an advantage for some time and I can't compete against that so I'm going to quit and take my 1000 member guild with me and I'm going to keep telling you this for the next 6 months evan though I have supposedly quit playing etc etc ad nauseum. Most recent example being Illium in SWOTOR. Hardly anyone was maxed lvl it was more convient to ignore the opposition and just farm the dailies the fix came in there was much screaming and gnashing of teeth as the 2 facton imbalance was massivly exposed the fix for that came in and again much whailing and gnashing of teeth as people who took advantage of the ..... oh hopefully you have the point by now.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
Think of it this way: time in game does matter. Time in game means honing your skills as a player, gaining a better understanding and feel for the way skills and game mechanics work. At the same time, someone who has a life outside of gaming can still get plenty of enjoyment because the mark of a good player is not determined by stats on gear, which means he/she souldn't be expecting to be shut out of aspects of the game simply because they don't have the high tier equipment. They may not be as good at the game because they don't spend as much time on it, but they should still get their money's worth.
I have a life outside of the game, but I am still a gamer and I don't want my level of ability determined by gear, I want it to be determined by my skill and understanding of the game. If I'm not as good as someone who gets more practice, then so be it.
Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
History has proven you wrong, sir.
This system is the exact same as DAOC, and that game is still going, years later. The popularity was so high at one point, that RvR became synonymous with PvP.
The mechanics in GW2 are so refined, that players looking to chase that shiny piece of uber armor, so they can 1 shot people in the PvP zones, will be so utterly confused, they will quit and go back to WoW.
Makes me so happy, I could almost cry.
I am thinking that we are misunderstanding something, Or I may have said what I meant wrong.
I read what you say and it sounds like what I said....or meant to say anyway.
Basically, People who want the WoW system will tire and go back.
But I think I get it with the Console reference. But again, that was meant as a reference to people looking for the carrot system.
Edit:
I'll put it this way.
The way I see GW2, is that ultimately it's going to be a PVP Niche game. Albeit a rather large niche. But a PVP niche game that will appeal primarily to those who wish to PVP for the love of PVP itself and not what PVPing can reward tehm with.
There are many peopel who think they'll want GW2's system, but won't be nearly as "efective" as they were in thier other games. Because they relied so much on gear to make them so good. But really won't be able to adapt to the skill requirements of a more level playing field.
Meaning. People want advantages.
Your reasoning for people wanting advantages fails, and fails hard.
But no matter, because if they go back to WoW or whatever game rewards them for grinding, then its still a win for us playing GW2. So I see it as a win-win.
What is really odd, is that you say GW2 will be a niche game, but admit it will be a LARGE niche game, well sir, if the population is large, then its not a niche game.
The only point I see you trying desperatly to make, is that people will get tired of GW2 after a few months. Dude, that happens to every game that is ever made. So really, you got no points at all, just ramblings.
I still don't understand why my reaonsing fails.
Its true. Many won't adapt. Many people have gone on and on bragging about how it's a skill based system. Guess what not everyone has skills. And not everyone enjoys PVP for it's own sake. You yourself said "They will quit and go back to WoW" then you got mad at me for stating the exact same thing. The only difference is that you are saying it from the GW2 perspective of "Oh Goodie!" And I was saying it from the WoW player's perspective saying "GW2 sucks, I'm going back to WoW!"
If you don't like that, well I am sorry, I really am not trying to piss you off but seriously, there are other perspectives.
If the fact that I implied that GW2 won't be as popular as you think, is what irritated you, well, I don't know what to say. It goes back to having skills and enjoying PVP for PVP. More don't than do. Many will try it and not fall in love with it.
That said, I never said it would be bad for GW2. They aren't who you want anyway.
I'll be playing for fun. Not sure why that is such a hard concept for a few to grasp.
In PvE and WvW, you still earn gear for the stats. The difference here is that the power curve is a bit more shallow and once you get to the level cap, you can spend a bit of time acquiring your max stat gear and be done with it. No more endlessly increasing power curve based on chasing the raid gear carrot. Gear also has value for the look and I'm sure some people will continue to aquire gear for the skins, even after their stats are maxed.
There are other achievments to pursue, for those who enjoy having such goals, so it's not like there is nothing to work for if you need a concrete goal beyond having fun.
You find it shocking that there are some who do not want to do the gear grind treadmill. You mistake not wanting gear as people wanting things equal. Personally I want it to be about skill and the action of playing. Not covetting an electronic piece of artwork equipment that represents 10 hours of raiding each.
OP. Obviously this game isnt for you. Its meant to be played and the ride is to be enjoyed. Thats not an insult as you said not everyone enjoys having fun playing games. Some just like to get gear that others do not. There are dozens of gear grind games out there for you and that is obviously what you want from your last sentence. That it is all about the gear.
Anyway, if the game isn't enjoyable at any point then stop playing. This is supposed to be entertainment after all. If a gear grind is what you find entertaining then you can try to do the horizontal gear grind, the first one had it that way just like this one will, or you will just have to find another game to suit your preferences.
Anyway, if the game isn't enjoyable at any point then stop playing. This is supposed to be entertainment after all. If a gear grind is what you find entertaining then you can try to do the horizontal gear grind, the first one had it that way just like this one will, or you will just have to find another game to suit your preferences.
What I don't understand is...Why does this community have to polarize so heavily around this topic?
That is to say...Why can't we have both?
I want to play GW2. I think the mechanics it presents are awesome. I want to do PVP based more on my ability to learn my class, build and skills.
But then, I also want to raid. I play Rift. I enjoy being able to socialize with 19 other people and lean to "dance" together to accomplish something as a group...and yeah....have something in my character slot edged in purple.
I can't have that in GW2. So I will play GW2 AND I will play Rift.
There are people who aren't going to want to leave it all.
I think regardless of what the developers say, there will be some grind at some point. Just watching some of the videos of the dungeon walk throughs have the person talking about how the dungeons take multiple hours to get through. And the developers have stated that the reward at the end will be worth the time we put in, whether it is just looks or stats, or a combination of the two.
To me this will be worth the time I put into it, especially the karma points and the gold.
Well, pvp in gw2 is not so much made for hardcore classic style pvp player, it is made much more simple with less buttons to push. From all this videos i can see that winning in gw2 is random based, your win depends more on luck and brute power than on skill. Classic mmorpg was always about gear and we will see how interesting will be to play this game
Grind is a state of mind in my opinion. Anything can be become a grind.
I pretty much agree with you. No game can have no grind, because after doing x so many times, you can begin to feel it's a grind. The sad reality is, after a month or two, dynamic events will begin to feel like a grind for some people. It's just how people think. Nothing lasts forever.
The thing with GW and GW2 is that if you begin to grow bored with the game, you can put it down and play something else. When more content is released, or when you feel like playing again, you can pick up right where you left off, and continue on with your account. You don't need to worry about that subscription or anything. You just have to remember your account details and security. I've put over 1000 hours into GW1 before I finally grew bored with it. 1000 HOURS, that's more than I could get out of really any single player game. So for about $200 over 4 years (for me), with over 1000 hours in, I think I got more than my money's worth.
If I wanted to, I could pick right back up tomorrow where I left off and continue on with the game. I won't have to worry about being 3 patches behind in gear, and having to figure out how the hell I'm going to catch up.
Some of you may only get 100-200 hours in, and some of you may get 1000s in. Everyone thinks different, and has different ideas of what they want in their games. Some of you love the concept of pure progression, always trying to make your character more powerful, and maybe gear focused games are more for you (I refuse to use the phrase 'gear grind' anymore, as that makes it sound like those games are terrible, when in fact they are just a different play style). The more differences we have in the type of games out there, the better for us consumers, in my opinion.
So to answer the OP, Guild Wars has never been about time > skill. Just because you put 10 hours a day in shouldn't make you any more powerful than the person who only puts 2 hours a day in. Instead, you should know more about the game, have better reactions, and be more skillfull than that person who puts 2 hours a day in. So yes, if you said GW is more for casual players, I would agree to an extent. It has some perks for those who want more "hardcore" and time consuming content (such as the dungeons). I can assure you, if GW1 dungeons are anything to be a measurement off, the dungeons WILL be very challenging. I don't think ArenaNet has ever nerfed the dungeons in GW1. In fact, I think they've only buffed the dungeons in order to combat certain builds without actually destroying the build if it's used for multiple purposes.
Because I never had time to actually sit down for a dungeon run, to this day, I've never completed Underworld, FoW, Urgoz, and DoA. I've gone in, and they are literally some of the hardest things I've ever been in.
Well, pvp in gw2 is not so much made for hardcore classic style pvp player, it is made much more simple with less buttons to push. From all this videos i can see that winning in gw2 is random based, your win depends more on luck and brute power than on skill. Classic mmorpg was always about gear and we will see how interesting will be to play this game
In what universe does Gear=skill. It just means you farmed more than the other. Jesus christ. You clearly dont know anything about being a hardcore pvp player because even in games like WoW the competitive play everyone has the same tier gear.
Also more buttons does not make a game more complex. Dota and LoL say hello to you.
I 100% support equal gear when it comes to PVP. I assume you can unlock better looking gear by being better at it, otherwise it would truly be worthless.
I personally don't really enjoy MMO PVP. Although I haven't played them in a long time, I had so much more fun playing FPS games for that type of content.
I have a feeling this game really isn't going to be for me, as I like to progress my character after hitting the level cap. I'm not interested in scheduled raids but would like to have stuff to do and have the ability to casually improve my character.
Well, pvp in gw2 is not so much made for hardcore classic style pvp player, it is made much more simple with less buttons to push. From all this videos i can see that winning in gw2 is random based, your win depends more on luck and brute power than on skill. Classic mmorpg was always about gear and we will see how interesting will be to play this game
Ahem I am sorry, in my book Hardcore Classic style Pvp happened in Ultima Online...and it was not about the gear.. *looks around for his bone armor and robes*... nor the stats (everyone had 100 health period)..I hope you did not mean WoW as a Classic pvp style game because that would be be so funny now and really for the lolz almanach!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Well, pvp in gw2 is not so much made for hardcore classic style pvp player, it is made much more simple with less buttons to push. From all this videos i can see that winning in gw2 is random based, your win depends more on luck and brute power than on skill. Classic mmorpg was always about gear and we will see how interesting will be to play this game
In what universe does Gear=skill. It just means you farmed more than the other. Jesus christ. You clearly dont know anything about being a hardcore pvp player because even in games like WoW the competitive play everyone has the same tier gear.
Also more buttons does not make a game more complex. Dota and LoL say hello to you.
Yep, also the original GW only gave you 8 skills at a time and had the same easy to obtain armor quality cap, and had a far more intricate and skill based PvP than any other MMO with dozens of hotbars.
There are plenty of other MMOs which cater to people who spend 40 hours a week on a game. Actually the vast majority of MMOs do. The Guild Wars series was never about that. You can form for new items which gives you cool skins or for achievements/titles. It was always about vanity items. Some people actually enjoy that.
I still remember the game popping up notices like "You've been playing for 3 hours. Please take a break". They should have a new warning "You've played for 40 hours this week. Please get a life." Seriously if you spend 40 hours playing a game a week you definitely need to get a life
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
@OP
Take the original console RPGs. You played themfor fun. You palyed them until you were done. If you really liked it you played it again. Meybe even 3 times. Eventually you stop.
GW will end up being somewhat similar for many people. It will be fun while it's new. After some time, they won't have the proverbial carrot on a stick. I too am a carrot chaser but I am still looking forward to this game. Even if only for a few months.
Hell, I've played full fledged grinders for less time than that.
Best thing I can say is, Play it.
I find it very unliely you won't get your money's worth.
Then if it no longer appeals to you since you completed what you set out to do. Move on or return to your old.
The day they made gear the most important factor of MMO, which bled into single player RPG the genre took a big hit. Thankfully GW2 and some other games are starting to go the other way. RPG/MMO used to be about just playing for fun, exploring, socialising, these sort of things. Granted, there was always some gear factor but was never emphasized so much it seems outside of the past 4-5 years with games. There is a lot more to progressing your character than gaining +10 crit.
You want us to tell you why we are playing the game, but were not allowed to say "for fun" ? HAHAHAHA!!
That is exactly why I am playing, FOR FUN!!!!!!!!!!
I dont need shiny things to make me feel important, but I would like to be on the leaderboard for seeing my enemies driven before me.
History has proven you wrong, sir.
This system is the exact same as DAOC, and that game is still going, years later. The popularity was so high at one point, that RvR became synonymous with PvP.
The mechanics in GW2 are so refined, that players looking to chase that shiny piece of uber armor, so they can 1 shot people in the PvP zones, will be so utterly confused, they will quit and go back to WoW.
Makes me so happy, I could almost cry.
I am thinking that we are misunderstanding something, Or I may have said what I meant wrong.
I read what you say and it sounds like what I said....or meant to say anyway.
Basically, People who want the WoW system will tire and go back.
But I think I get it with the Console reference. But again, that was meant as a reference to people looking for the carrot system.
Edit:
I'll put it this way.
The way I see GW2, is that ultimately it's going to be a PVP Niche game. Albeit a rather large niche. But a PVP niche game that will appeal primarily to those who wish to PVP for the love of PVP itself and not what PVPing can reward tehm with.
There are many peopel who think they'll want GW2's system, but won't be nearly as "efective" as they were in thier other games. Because they relied so much on gear to make them so good. But really won't be able to adapt to the skill requirements of a more level playing field.
Meaning. People want advantages.
Your reasoning for people wanting advantages fails, and fails hard.
But no matter, because if they go back to WoW or whatever game rewards them for grinding, then its still a win for us playing GW2. So I see it as a win-win.
What is really odd, is that you say GW2 will be a niche game, but admit it will be a LARGE niche game, well sir, if the population is large, then its not a niche game.
The only point I see you trying desperatly to make, is that people will get tired of GW2 after a few months. Dude, that happens to every game that is ever made. So really, you got no points at all, just ramblings.
If you need a statistical advantage = the amount of time you put into this game (like every other themepark on the market), this is not the game for you.
If you want something different than the majority of gear treadmill themeparks that soak up the current market, this is the game for you.
Pretty simple. Anet has stuck to their vision of changing the mmo scene, and I applaud them for that. GW2 will not please everyone, but hey, you have tons of other options if getting more numbers means that much to you.
Couple of things yes the gear you get from Dungeons/DE's or just playing the game won't neccarily be better however it will have stats attached that are more focussed so for example if when your bosted you might get a sword that is say +20 across all stats. However if you run a max lvl dungeon you might find a sword that has 1 stat +30 and the rest +10. So it's not neccarily more powerful it's just more focused to a particular way of playing that character. The more sets of gear you have the more options you have in how you play that particular character but a boosted character still has a chance of taking you down.
The thing is what kills open world PvP more often than not is that at the start there are very few participants because it's not really viable to go there till you maxed out. Things get broken and abused by certain players and then the forums become a whine fest of how it's not fair because only these few people got to do this and no it's been made so they have an advantage for some time and I can't compete against that so I'm going to quit and take my 1000 member guild with me and I'm going to keep telling you this for the next 6 months evan though I have supposedly quit playing etc etc ad nauseum. Most recent example being Illium in SWOTOR. Hardly anyone was maxed lvl it was more convient to ignore the opposition and just farm the dailies the fix came in there was much screaming and gnashing of teeth as the 2 facton imbalance was massivly exposed the fix for that came in and again much whailing and gnashing of teeth as people who took advantage of the ..... oh hopefully you have the point by now.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
Think of it this way: time in game does matter. Time in game means honing your skills as a player, gaining a better understanding and feel for the way skills and game mechanics work. At the same time, someone who has a life outside of gaming can still get plenty of enjoyment because the mark of a good player is not determined by stats on gear, which means he/she souldn't be expecting to be shut out of aspects of the game simply because they don't have the high tier equipment. They may not be as good at the game because they don't spend as much time on it, but they should still get their money's worth.
I have a life outside of the game, but I am still a gamer and I don't want my level of ability determined by gear, I want it to be determined by my skill and understanding of the game. If I'm not as good as someone who gets more practice, then so be it.
I still don't understand why my reaonsing fails.
Its true. Many won't adapt. Many people have gone on and on bragging about how it's a skill based system. Guess what not everyone has skills. And not everyone enjoys PVP for it's own sake. You yourself said "They will quit and go back to WoW" then you got mad at me for stating the exact same thing. The only difference is that you are saying it from the GW2 perspective of "Oh Goodie!" And I was saying it from the WoW player's perspective saying "GW2 sucks, I'm going back to WoW!"
If you don't like that, well I am sorry, I really am not trying to piss you off but seriously, there are other perspectives.
If the fact that I implied that GW2 won't be as popular as you think, is what irritated you, well, I don't know what to say. It goes back to having skills and enjoying PVP for PVP. More don't than do. Many will try it and not fall in love with it.
That said, I never said it would be bad for GW2. They aren't who you want anyway.
I'll be playing for fun. Not sure why that is such a hard concept for a few to grasp.
In PvE and WvW, you still earn gear for the stats. The difference here is that the power curve is a bit more shallow and once you get to the level cap, you can spend a bit of time acquiring your max stat gear and be done with it. No more endlessly increasing power curve based on chasing the raid gear carrot. Gear also has value for the look and I'm sure some people will continue to aquire gear for the skins, even after their stats are maxed.
There are other achievments to pursue, for those who enjoy having such goals, so it's not like there is nothing to work for if you need a concrete goal beyond having fun.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
You find it shocking that there are some who do not want to do the gear grind treadmill. You mistake not wanting gear as people wanting things equal. Personally I want it to be about skill and the action of playing. Not covetting an electronic piece of artwork equipment that represents 10 hours of raiding each.
OP. Obviously this game isnt for you. Its meant to be played and the ride is to be enjoyed. Thats not an insult as you said not everyone enjoys having fun playing games. Some just like to get gear that others do not. There are dozens of gear grind games out there for you and that is obviously what you want from your last sentence. That it is all about the gear.
game over man, game over
Anyway, if the game isn't enjoyable at any point then stop playing. This is supposed to be entertainment after all. If a gear grind is what you find entertaining then you can try to do the horizontal gear grind, the first one had it that way just like this one will, or you will just have to find another game to suit your preferences.
I am starting to think that the OP is just gauging player sentiment.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
What I don't understand is...Why does this community have to polarize so heavily around this topic?
That is to say...Why can't we have both?
I want to play GW2. I think the mechanics it presents are awesome. I want to do PVP based more on my ability to learn my class, build and skills.
But then, I also want to raid. I play Rift. I enjoy being able to socialize with 19 other people and lean to "dance" together to accomplish something as a group...and yeah....have something in my character slot edged in purple.
I can't have that in GW2. So I will play GW2 AND I will play Rift.
There are people who aren't going to want to leave it all.
I think regardless of what the developers say, there will be some grind at some point. Just watching some of the videos of the dungeon walk throughs have the person talking about how the dungeons take multiple hours to get through. And the developers have stated that the reward at the end will be worth the time we put in, whether it is just looks or stats, or a combination of the two.
To me this will be worth the time I put into it, especially the karma points and the gold.
Grind is a state of mind in my opinion. Anything can be become a grind.
Well, pvp in gw2 is not so much made for hardcore classic style pvp player, it is made much more simple with less buttons to push. From all this videos i can see that winning in gw2 is random based, your win depends more on luck and brute power than on skill. Classic mmorpg was always about gear and we will see how interesting will be to play this game
I pretty much agree with you. No game can have no grind, because after doing x so many times, you can begin to feel it's a grind. The sad reality is, after a month or two, dynamic events will begin to feel like a grind for some people. It's just how people think. Nothing lasts forever.
The thing with GW and GW2 is that if you begin to grow bored with the game, you can put it down and play something else. When more content is released, or when you feel like playing again, you can pick up right where you left off, and continue on with your account. You don't need to worry about that subscription or anything. You just have to remember your account details and security. I've put over 1000 hours into GW1 before I finally grew bored with it. 1000 HOURS, that's more than I could get out of really any single player game. So for about $200 over 4 years (for me), with over 1000 hours in, I think I got more than my money's worth.
If I wanted to, I could pick right back up tomorrow where I left off and continue on with the game. I won't have to worry about being 3 patches behind in gear, and having to figure out how the hell I'm going to catch up.
Some of you may only get 100-200 hours in, and some of you may get 1000s in. Everyone thinks different, and has different ideas of what they want in their games. Some of you love the concept of pure progression, always trying to make your character more powerful, and maybe gear focused games are more for you (I refuse to use the phrase 'gear grind' anymore, as that makes it sound like those games are terrible, when in fact they are just a different play style). The more differences we have in the type of games out there, the better for us consumers, in my opinion.
So to answer the OP, Guild Wars has never been about time > skill. Just because you put 10 hours a day in shouldn't make you any more powerful than the person who only puts 2 hours a day in. Instead, you should know more about the game, have better reactions, and be more skillfull than that person who puts 2 hours a day in. So yes, if you said GW is more for casual players, I would agree to an extent. It has some perks for those who want more "hardcore" and time consuming content (such as the dungeons). I can assure you, if GW1 dungeons are anything to be a measurement off, the dungeons WILL be very challenging. I don't think ArenaNet has ever nerfed the dungeons in GW1. In fact, I think they've only buffed the dungeons in order to combat certain builds without actually destroying the build if it's used for multiple purposes.
Because I never had time to actually sit down for a dungeon run, to this day, I've never completed Underworld, FoW, Urgoz, and DoA. I've gone in, and they are literally some of the hardest things I've ever been in.
In what universe does Gear=skill. It just means you farmed more than the other. Jesus christ. You clearly dont know anything about being a hardcore pvp player because even in games like WoW the competitive play everyone has the same tier gear.
Also more buttons does not make a game more complex. Dota and LoL say hello to you.
It does reward time spent, the more you play the better you will get at combat.
I 100% support equal gear when it comes to PVP. I assume you can unlock better looking gear by being better at it, otherwise it would truly be worthless.
I personally don't really enjoy MMO PVP. Although I haven't played them in a long time, I had so much more fun playing FPS games for that type of content.
I have a feeling this game really isn't going to be for me, as I like to progress my character after hitting the level cap. I'm not interested in scheduled raids but would like to have stuff to do and have the ability to casually improve my character.
Ahem I am sorry, in my book Hardcore Classic style Pvp happened in Ultima Online...and it was not about the gear.. *looks around for his bone armor and robes*... nor the stats (everyone had 100 health period)..I hope you did not mean WoW as a Classic pvp style game because that would be be so funny now and really for the lolz almanach!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Yep, also the original GW only gave you 8 skills at a time and had the same easy to obtain armor quality cap, and had a far more intricate and skill based PvP than any other MMO with dozens of hotbars.
There are plenty of other MMOs which cater to people who spend 40 hours a week on a game. Actually the vast majority of MMOs do. The Guild Wars series was never about that. You can form for new items which gives you cool skins or for achievements/titles. It was always about vanity items. Some people actually enjoy that.
I still remember the game popping up notices like "You've been playing for 3 hours. Please take a break". They should have a new warning "You've played for 40 hours this week. Please get a life." Seriously if you spend 40 hours playing a game a week you definitely need to get a life
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.