I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
"Just a few quick points to address here, I'll throw out I'm not on the micro-transaction team so I'm not the perfect person to be answering this, but I do think it's important to respond to a couple of these points with the best educated answer I can give since I think this something some of you have raised strong concerns over.
"ANET also said multiple times that there will only be cosmetic stuff to buy in the cash- shop which was a straight lie. Even when those boosts only save you 15 minutes per event (like some people said here, i dont really know if those numbers are right), it still isnt just cosmetic."
Just to clarify, we have always said we would not sell anything that makes you more powerful than another player, things like cosmetic items, character slots, etc. There will never be gear for sale in our store that is better than other players can get in a reasonable amount of time, and there will never be items that require a high bar of player skill to earn for sale that would ruin the prestige of such items.
Likewise it is our goal to not design the store such that to play the game you need to use it, we designed and built the game before the micro-transaction store was online to help specifically avoid requiring any of the items for game-play, we want them to be purely optional just like Gw1's store items.
Just like the shop in Gw1, the stuff you'll end in the Gw2 cash shop gives players who don't have as much time to play the game the opportunity to spend cash to speed up their progress instead of time. For example, the core form of progression in Gw1 was unlocking skills, in Gw1 you could purchase skill packs that would save you the large amounts of time you would spend earning gold and hunting down skills in the game if you wished to do so. One of the great differences (and benefits) of the current system is it does introduce a balance to players from both side. In Gw1, people could exchange money to save time by purchasing skill packs, however people could not exchange time to get a number of the items from our store like character slots, costumes, etc. This system was not fair to people who didn't want to spend money on the game, because there were goods they simply could not attain, even if they were mostly vanity items or progression speeding items like skill unlocks.
In Gw2, we have continued that exact same tradition, many of the things that take time but no specificallylevel of player skill, you can spend money on if you wish just like skill unlocks worked in gw1. However, we have also evened the playing field by allowing players who wish to spend time and not money to purchase everything from the shop by using time played to earn gold, which they can change into gems to buy everything from character slots, costumes, and more for simply playing the game.
We realize any time we introduce any sort of store or micro-transaction to the game it will come with questions, a feeling of concern that other players might be able to buy their way to be better than us, or a feeling of frustration that other players could one-up your experience by out-doing the time you've spent by simply unloading loads of cashola. We too are first and foremost gamers, and many of us have been turned off by games where we load in and see moments like, "Spend $20 to get the most powerful weapon."', that sucks. We feel like in Gw1, the overwhelming majority of our player base didn't ?nd skill unlocks (which was a means of speeding up the core form of progression and reward in Gw1) to be unfair, and it never effected anyone's game—play that someone else was able to purchase them. We have tried to model the Gw2 MTX system to take the same thing into account, now that level/karma/basic-item progression has replaced skill unlock progression as the key form of progression and basic reward progression in Gw2, we have offered the ability to speed that process just like we did with skill packs in Gw1.
Just like Gw1, we will NOT allow players to purchase items like rare dungeon armors and weapons that are earned through high amounts of player skill to provide prestige for the players in the world. (Please note: the ressurect orb only puts players into the downed state and slowly gives them back health, in a dungeon this means if there are any mobs nearby you will be killed again long before you can ever res, preventing this from allowing dungeons to be progressed easier by spending $, since dungeons require a specifically player skill to overcome. If there are not mobs nearby, you could simply use the nearby res shrine. This is simply a convenience item to save time on the run back from the res shrine if you wish to do so and has no effect on power or game-balance.)
Better than Gw1, we will NOT let players purchase faster progression in competitive PVP. (You could buy skill unlock packs in Gw1 for PVP, we have no like items to speed competitive PvP progression in Gw2)
Better than Gw1, players who do not wish to spend a dime on the game will have access to all of the items in the MTX store like character slots and costumes simply by spending time in the game, where in Gw1 only players who spent cash were allowed access to such goods. We view this system as superior to Gw1, because in our first game, players who didn't want to spend money on the game were locked out of the ability to get any of the special items in our store. In Gw2, this system allows ANY player the ability to purchase items from our store, by simply making the choice of playing the game (time), or spending real $ to speed up that progress if they wish.
I'd also like to address the quote I've seen foating around about "we can put anything in our store because anyone in the game can buy it for gold" [By Rubi Bayer aka old massively coloumnist]. We have a strict policy of what stuff we're comfortable with going in our store, as noted above, and we simply will not throw those rules out the window since anything in the store can be purchased for gold. That was an unfortunate quote, and does not reflect our view on the MTX store. I hope this helps a clarify a bit on where we stand and our background on these decisions as I understand them, a member of our micro-transaction team could probably provide more context and a better written explanation than this, we content guys usually do events and story; but I hope that helps a bit.
I'd ask most importantly you all remember the game is still in beta, and we're trying a lot of this stuff to get your feedback specifically thanks for all your well thought out points everyone we truly appreciate it!
Finally in regards to the original question of this thread, we will not be charging a monthly fee for Gw2. We firmly believe players should have the option to enjoy our game without ever having to spend a dime beyond the original purchase price if they see fit, and we will not change that model, it worked great for us in Gw1, and we're betting our company that it will work great for us again in Gw2."
I would love you naysers counter-argue this post if you guys still think GW2 is pay to win.
I understand it from a business point of view (Please never use 'kids' again when adressing me, you are not one of my parents so it can only mean that you meant it derogatory, which is an insult).
I also agree that it sounds nice on paper when Anet tells us that :
- selling gems for ingame gold, doesnt add extra gold to the economy.
- players have the chance to buy cash shop items with ingame gold, without paying a dime.
This kind of talk annoys me. It is onesided. The whole point of a cash shop is to make sure that the available items in it are in demand and that new items are added regurarly. This is what will be the main incentive for players to farm (community always surprises devs with what they come up with) extra gold for cash shop items.
So yeah, the exchange of gems for gold does indeed not add additional gold to the economy. That is because it was already farmed before that. It also doesn't leave the economy with the exchange for gems. It is surplus gold that is used to buy gems with. Lots of gold that flows into the hands of possible new players that get become rich at lvl1. This will have an effect on playerprices for ingame loot. Or if there is no interesting loot, the economy will basically be about gems<->gold. I don't know what is worse.
The main thing is that gems being tradable for gold means faster gold creation then intended for the game's design. Gold sinks are fixed prices, which means faster inflation (compared to having no gems) is the only possible result. At some point Anet will act to counter the rate of gold creation. Will they nerf gold drops in areas which become known for farming? Will they raise gold sinks? Whatever they will do, it will likely affect the players who chose to ignore the cash shop the most.
This is my main concern about the cash shop. I dont care about the megaphone, keys and that shit. That is much easier to adress later on. The possible gem problem not so easy. Not without affecting players that want to ignore the buy ingame gold thing.
"Kids" wasn't meant as an insult. So I'll retract it with apologies. That said.
I see your points and they are valid ones. My only response is that there's way too much "If" in there. There's a lot of ways they could choose to deal with the posisibility of inflation. And you're right that if they have to choose between affecting people paying more and people not, they're more likely to affect the people not handing them money. Which I can completely understand. But until I see proof that this will 100% unequivoacably harm my ability to enjoy the game, I see no reason not to play it. Worst cast, my 60 bucks gets me several months of a fun MMO until something goes wrong and I decide to leave. At which point I only spent 60, not the 60+15/month I might have on another game.
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
Honestly, I'm still ok with the idea of a cash shop in general, I never had a big problem with them in other games because hey, I don't buy anything from them, but frankly, the fact that I can make the game last longer (provided I enjoy it at a basic level) by NOT buying shortcuts sits well with me. So other players may get something faster than I do...
So...?
No, seriously, so what? Am I even going to notice or have the time to check which people earned their gear/items through cash? Nope, I'm just going to play the game the way I'd have played the game anyway, the way I played every other game that had a cash shop and didn't buy anything then either. And if I want the shit they have, I can just work for it like I do for achievements in a common steam game..... for fun.
Honestly, I think people are WAAAAAY too concerned with what other players are doing.
As far as "uniting the community" I don't know about all that, but I also think the vast majority of people will get used to it and ANet will listen to the ones that have good ideas about its implimentation. They usually are pretty good at listening.
"Just a few quick points to address here, I'll throw out I'm not on the micro-transaction team so I'm not the perfect person to be answering this, but I do think it's important to respond to a couple of these points with the best educated answer I can give since I think this something some of you have raised strong concerns over. "ANET also said multiple times that there will only be cosmetic stuff to buy in the cash- shop which was a straight lie. Even when those boosts only save you 15 minutes per event (like some people said here, i dont really know if those numbers are right), it still isnt just cosmetic." Just to clarify, we have always said we would not sell anything that makes you more powerful than another player, things like cosmetic items, character slots, etc. There will never be gear for sale in our store that is better than other players can get in a reasonable amount of time, and there will never be items that require a high bar of player skill to earn for sale that would ruin the prestige of such items. Likewise it is our goal to not design the store such that to play the game you need to use it, we designed and built the game before the micro-transaction store was online to help speci?cally avoid requiring any of the items for game-play, we want them to be purely optional just like Gw1's store items. Just like the shop in Gw1, the stuff you'll ?nd in the Gw2 cash shop gives players who don't have as much time to play the game the opportunity to spend cash to speed up their progress instead of time. For example, the core form of progression in Gw1 was unlocking skills, in Gw1 you could purchase skill packs that would save you the large amounts of time you would spend earning gold and hunting down skills in the game if you wished to do so. One of the great differences (and bene?ts) of the current system is it does introduce a balance to players from both side. In Gw1, people could exchange money to save time by purchasing skill packs, however people could not exchange time to get a number of the items from our store like character slots, costumes, etc. This system was not fair to people who didn't want to spend money on the game, because there were goods they simply could not attain, even if they were mostly vanity items or progression speeding items like skill unlocks. In Gw2, we have continued that exact same tradition, many of the things that take time but no speci?c level of player skill, you can spend money on if you wish just like skill unlocks worked in gw1. However, we have also evened the playing field by allowing players who wish to spend time and not money to purchase everything from the shop by using time played to earn gold, which they can change into gems to buy everything from character slots, costumes, and more for simply playing the game. We realize any time we introduce any sort of store or micro-transaction to the game it will come with questions, a feeling of concern that other players might be able to buy their way to be better than us, or a feeling of frustration that other players could one-up your experience by out-doing the time you've spent by simply unloading loads of cashola. We too are ?rst and foremost gamers, and many of us have been turned off by games where we load in and see moments like, "Spend $20 to get the most powerful weapon."', that sucks. We feel like in Gw1, the overwhelming majority of our player base didn't ?nd skill unlocks (which was a means of speeding up the core form of progression and reward in Gw1) to be unfair, and it never effected anyone's gameplay that someone else was able to purchase them. We have tried to model the Gw2 MTX system to take the same thing into account, now that level/karma/basic-item progression has replaced skill unlock progression as the key form of progression and basic reward progression in Gw2, we have offered the ability to speed that process just like we did with skill packs in Gw1. Just like Gw1, we will NOT allow players to purchase items like rare dungeon armors and weapons that are earned through high amounts of player skill to provide prestige for the players in the world. (Please note: the ressurect orb only puts players into the downed state and slowly gives them back health, in a dungeon this means if there are any mobs nearby you will be killed again long before you can ever res, preventing this from allowing dungeons to be progressed easier by spending $, since dungeons require a speci?c player skill to overcome. If there are not mobs nearby, you could simply use the nearby res shrine. This is simply a convenience item to save time on the run back from the res shrine if you wish to do so and has no effect on power or game-balance.) Better than Gw1, we will NOT let players purchase faster progression in competitive PVP. (You could buy skill unlock packs in Gw1 for PVP, we have no like items to speed competitive PvP progression in Gw2) Better than Gw1, players who do not wish to spend a dime on the game will have access to all ofthe items in the MTX store like character slots and costumes simply by spending time in the game, where in Gw1 only players who spent cash were allowed access to such goods. We view this system as superior to Gw1, because in our ?rst game players who didn't want to spend money on the game were locked out of the ability to get any of the special items in our store. In Gw2, this system allows ANY player the ability to purchase items from our store, by simply making the choice of playing the game (time), or spending real $ to speed up that progress if they wish. I'd also like to address the quote I've seen foating around about "we can put anything in our store because anyone in the game can buy it for gold". We have a strict policy of what stuff we're comfortable with going in our store, as noted above, and we simply will not throw those rules out the window since anything in the store can be purchased for gold. That was an unfortunate quote, and does not reflect our view on the MTX store. I hope this helps a clarify a bit on where we stand and our background on these decisions as I understand them, a member of our micro-transaction team could probably provide more context and a better written explanation than this, we content guys usually do events and story; but I hope that helps a bit. I'd ask most importantly you all remember the game is still in beta, and we're trying a lot of this stuff to get your feedback speci?cally, thanks for all your well thought out points everyone we truly appreciate it! Finally in regards to the original question of this thread, we will not be charging a monthly fee for Gw2. We ?rmly believe players should have the option to enjoy our game without ever having to spend a dime beyond the original purchase price if they see ?t, and we will not change that model, it worked great for us in Gw1, and we're betting our company that it will work great for us again in Gw2." Quote by Arenanet Dev Colin Johanson .
I would love you naysers counter-argue this post if you guys still think GW2 is pay to win.
Thank you! I feel bad my original post turned into a Zerg fest for this horrid, and completely misunderstood by most people argument.... Also add In eir that it is a player-based economy, gold and gems are transferred between players, gold can not be directly bought between the buyer and the shop, and that these children need to learn some basic economics. Thanks!
Honestly, I'm still ok with the idea of a cash shop in general, I never had a big problem with them in other games because hey, I don't buy anything from them, but frankly, the fact that I can make the game last longer (provided I enjoy it at a basic level) by NOT buying shortcuts sits well with me. So other players may get something faster than I do...
So...?
No, seriously, so what? Am I even going to notice or have the time to check which people earned their gear/items through cash? Nope, I'm just going to play the game the way I'd have played the game anyway, the way I played every other game that had a cash shop and didn't buy anything then either. And if I want the shit they have, I can just work for it like I do for achievements in a common steam game..... for fun.
Honestly, I think people are WAAAAAY too concerned with what other players are doing.
As far as "uniting the community" I don't know about all that, but I also think the vast majority of people will get used to it and ANet will listen to the ones that have good ideas about its implimentation. They usually are pretty good at listening.
I don't think it's people worried about what people are doing, instead it's people worrying about what devs are doing to gaming in general. If things go too far in this direction we'll end up with arcades, "insert coin" to play for five minutes... yeah that's extreme, but i think you get the point .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
Purchasing the game gives you access to everything in the game, there are none of the typical limitations associated with many of the other F2P MMO games.
Then again this sounds like another typical, I just want a game for free complaint, which is so prevelant in these discussions.
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
I will agree 200% to this. HOWEVER.
So far Anet keeps saying they don't want a gameplay-breaking cash shop. Now, we don't know what the loot bags will have, or if the keys can be obtained in game as well as the shop, or if the chests have gear of such clear superiority that no one without it standa a chance.
We DO know many statements by Anet have said this is something they do not want to do. Until I see the stats for the items from the chests, they are optional, cash shop items in general are optional, and the cash shop is not, as the earlier postsers phrased it "significant". Thus continuing to justtify my wish to play the game. Innocent until proven guilty in my book.
That's not to say there's no reason to express concern. On the contrary, it's VERY important we express our worries about these things. I just wish people weren't doing it by saying "OMG Anet sold us out all they care about is money they're going 100% p2w this is a scam OMG RAEG!!!!!"
First off those people make themselves look like idiots by spouting off baseless accusations. Secondly, they drown out LEGITIMATE expressions of concern, and thirdly, they unfairly sway opinions of those that haven't had the opportunity to get all the facts.
I don't think it's people worried about what people are doing, instead it's people worrying about what devs are doing to gaming in general. If things go too far in this direction we'll end up with arcades, "insert coin" to play for five minutes... yeah that's extreme, but i think you get the point .
Well it's a good thing to wonder about I guess, after all if most money-making companies know they can get away with something, they might try for the next level. However, I see a lot of people complaining here, some who don't even intend to play the game in the first place. I think ANet should open up their official forums ASAP if they want to get the full effect of unhappy consumers before release. Barring that, I hope the beta players don't just let something bad slip by uncontested.
Honestly, I'm still ok with the idea of a cash shop in general, I never had a big problem with them in other games because hey, I don't buy anything from them, but frankly, the fact that I can make the game last longer (provided I enjoy it at a basic level) by NOT buying shortcuts sits well with me. So other players may get something faster than I do...
So...?
No, seriously, so what? Am I even going to notice or have the time to check which people earned their gear/items through cash? Nope, I'm just going to play the game the way I'd have played the game anyway, the way I played every other game that had a cash shop and didn't buy anything then either. And if I want the shit they have, I can just work for it like I do for achievements in a common steam game..... for fun.
Honestly, I think people are WAAAAAY too concerned with what other players are doing.
As far as "uniting the community" I don't know about all that, but I also think the vast majority of people will get used to it and ANet will listen to the ones that have good ideas about its implimentation. They usually are pretty good at listening.
I don't think it's people worried about what people are doing, instead it's people worrying about what devs are doing to gaming in general. If things go too far in this direction we'll end up with arcades, "insert coin" to play for five minutes... yeah that's extreme, but i think you get the point .
I can definitely see where the naysayers are coming from. I too share their views on the matter, for the most part.
Having played GW1 for over 5 years, I have experience with ANet and their position on microtransactions. The stuff is completely optional and does not give anyone an unfair advantage. Their cash shop is one of the least intrusive in any MMO. Every single weapon, armor, minipet or any other item can only be acquired by playing the game. In the 5 years of playing GW1, I spent about $20 on a few costumes, not counting campaign prices of course.
Let's face it, the game has no subscription fee at all. The completely optional cash shop is perfectly fine in my book. Now if you take other AAA MMOs like WoW, AoC, LoTRO, WAR, etc. which have a cash shop on top of a subscription fee, that's a different issue. One I have a slight problem with.
It is absolutly rediculous that the amount of time played has little effect on the rewards you get in the game. If I play the game for 13 hours a day and somebody else only plays an hour a day and they can fight the same giant monsters as me why should I bother? If they can get the same gear as me why should I bother?
Oh, that's right, I have to pay $50 a month just to keep competitive in the PvE market, that's ridiculous. This is a slap in the face, a betrayal, of all loyal ANet fans. This game will be a snack instead of a full meal, it will only last about a year before it fails, all thanks to the P2W shop...err I mean cash shop.
"Just a few quick points to address here, I'll throw out I'm not on the micro-transaction team so I'm not the perfect person to be answering this, but I do think it's important to respond to a couple of these points with the best educated answer I can give since I think this something some of you have raised strong concerns over.
"ANET also said multiple times that there will only be cosmetic stuff to buy in the cash- shop which was a straight lie. Even when those boosts only save you 15 minutes per event (like some people said here, i dont really know if those numbers are right), it still isnt just cosmetic."
Just to clarify, we have always said we would not sell anything that makes you more powerful than another player, things like cosmetic items, character slots, etc. There will never be gear for sale in our store that is better than other players can get in a reasonable amount of time, and there will never be items that require a high bar of player skill to earn for sale that would ruin the prestige of such items.
Likewise it is our goal to not design the store such that to play the game you need to use it, we designed and built the game before the micro-transaction store was online to help speci?cally avoid requiring any of the items for game-play, we want them to be purely optional just like Gw1's store items.
Just like the shop in Gw1, the stuff you'll ?nd in the Gw2 cash shop gives players who don't have as much time to play the game the opportunity to spend cash to speed up their progress instead of time. For example, the core form of progression in Gw1 was unlocking skills, in Gw1 you could purchase skill packs that would save you the large amounts of time you would spend earning gold and hunting down skills in the game if you wished to do so. One of the great differences (and bene?ts) of the current system is it does introduce a balance to players from both side. In Gw1, people could exchange money to save time by purchasing skill packs, however people could not exchange time to get a number of the items from our store like character slots, costumes, etc. This system was not fair to people who didn't want to spend money on the game, because there were goods they simply could not attain, even if they were mostly vanity items or progression speeding items like skill unlocks.
In Gw2, we have continued that exact same tradition, many of the things that take time but no speci?c level of player skill, you can spend money on if you wish just like skill unlocks worked in gw1. However, we have also evened the playing field by allowing players who wish to spend time and not money to purchase everything from the shop by using time played to earn gold, which they can change into gems to buy everything from character slots, costumes, and more for simply playing the game.
We realize any time we introduce any sort of store or micro-transaction to the game it will come with questions, a feeling of concern that other players might be able to buy their way to be better than us, or a feeling of frustration that other players could one-up your experience by out-doing the time you've spent by simply unloading loads of cashola. We too are ?rst and foremost gamers, and many of us have been turned off by games where we load in and see moments like, "Spend $20 to get the most powerful weapon."', that sucks. We feel like in Gw1, the overwhelming majority of our player base didn't ?nd skill unlocks (which was a means of speeding up the core form of progression and reward in Gw1) to be unfair, and it never effected anyone's game—play that someone else was able to purchase them. We have tried to model the Gw2 MTX system to take the same thing into account, now that level/karma/basic-item progression has replaced skill unlock progression as the key form of progression and basic reward progression in Gw2, we have offered the ability to speed that process just like we did with skill packs in Gw1.
Just like Gw1, we will NOT allow players to purchase items like rare dungeon armors and weapons that are earned through high amounts of player skill to provide prestige for the players in the world. (Please note: the ressurect orb only puts players into the downed state and slowly gives them back health, in a dungeon this means if there are any mobs nearby you will be killed again long before you can ever res, preventing this from allowing dungeons to be progressed easier by spending $, since dungeons require a speci?c player skill to overcome. If there are not mobs nearby, you could simply use the nearby res shrine. This is simply a convenience item to save time on the run back from the res shrine if you wish to do so and has no effect on power or game-balance.)
Better than Gw1, we will NOT let players purchase faster progression in competitive PVP. (You could buy skill unlock packs in Gw1 for PVP, we have no like items to speed competitive PvP progression in Gw2)
Better than Gw1, players who do not wish to spend a dime on the game will have access to all ofthe items in the MTX store like character slots and costumes simply by spending time in the game, where in Gw1 only players who spent cash were allowed access to such goods. We view this system as superior to Gw1, because in our ?rst game players who didn't want to spend money on the game were locked out of the ability to get any of the special items in our store. In Gw2, this system allows ANY player the ability to purchase items from our store, by simply making the choice of playing the game (time), or spending real $ to speed up that progress if they wish.
I'd also like to address the quote I've seen foating around about "we can put anything in our store because anyone in the game can buy it for gold". We have a strict policy of what stuff we're comfortable with going in our store, as noted above, and we simply will not throw those rules out the window since anything in the store can be purchased for gold. That was an unfortunate quote, and does not reflect our view on the MTX store. I hope this helps a clarify a bit on where we stand and our background on these decisions as I understand them, a member of our micro-transaction team could probably provide more context and a better written explanation than this, we content guys usually do events and story; but I hope that helps a bit.
I'd ask most importantly you all remember the game is still in beta, and we're trying a lot of this stuff to get your feedback speci?cally, thanks for all your well thought out points everyone we truly appreciate it!
Finally in regards to the original question of this thread, we will not be charging a monthly fee for Gw2. We ?rmly believe players should have the option to enjoy our game without ever having to spend a dime beyond the original purchase price if they see ?t, and we will not change that model, it worked great for us in Gw1, and we're betting our company that it will work great for us again in Gw2." Quote by Arenanet Dev Colin Johanson .
I would love you naysers counter-argue this post if you guys still think GW2 is pay to win.
Thank you! I feel bad my original post turned into a Zerg fest for this horrid, and completely misunderstood by most people argument.... Also add In eir that it is a player-based economy, gold and gems are transferred between players, gold can not be directly bought between the buyer and the shop, and that these children need to learn some basic economics. Thanks!
This.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
From what I understand, those keys will be available in the game itself, either as drops or from vendors. I agree though, it's hard to really judge at this point since the game is in beta and there is still an NDA in place for the cash shop. So chances are, whatever's in the cash shop, is not final.
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
From what I understand, those keys will be available in the game itself, either as drops or from vendors. I agree though, it's hard to really judge at this point since the game is in beta and there is still an NDA in place for the cash shop. So chances are, whatever's in the cash shop, is not final.
They are droped in game I thought this was already stated like the above and certaint sources have/had that info already.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Anet, if you do that, you might as well join with EA or Activision and become sex slaves with them for your entire lifes, as your game will be corrupted with that concept, as money -> players is the only way to gain enternal damnation and your games forever shunned with each logo of your game. You walk the same path like WoW, Bioware, and other popular slaves of EA and Activision... you don't want to join their bondage.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
I will agree 200% to this. HOWEVER.
So far Anet keeps saying they don't want a gameplay-breaking cash shop. Now, we don't know what the loot bags will have, or if the keys can be obtained in game as well as the shop, or if the chests have gear of such clear superiority that no one without it standa a chance.
We DO know many statements by Anet have said this is something they do not want to do. Until I see the stats for the items from the chests, they are optional, cash shop items in general are optional, and the cash shop is not, as the earlier postsers phrased it "significant". Thus continuing to justtify my wish to play the game. Innocent until proven guilty in my book.
That's not to say there's no reason to express concern. On the contrary, it's VERY important we express our worries about these things. I just wish people weren't doing it by saying "OMG Anet sold us out all they care about is money they're going 100% p2w this is a scam OMG RAEG!!!!!"
First off those people make themselves look like idiots by spouting off baseless accusations. Secondly, they drown out LEGITIMATE expressions of concern, and thirdly, they unfairly sway opinions of those that haven't had the opportunity to get all the facts.
Of course, I agree with everything you said here. It's always safe at points such as this to keep thoughts in the realm of the hypothetical and possibilities.
I don't feel the shop looks P2W, in fact my concerns are more on a genre level rather than a GW2 level. I've always viewed RMT legal or otherwise as more or less a form of cheating. Taking shortcuts is usually looked at in this way. Devs used to seem to feel the same, yet that changed some where along the path to here.
Today they seem to be accepting of short-cuts, to me that's troubling for the genre and it's integrity. It says a lot about who they view as their customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Then why charge us 60 dollars for the box? other f2p titles seem to make money while not charging for the box. This is what makes it almost offensive. Somehow they've convinced you all that b2p but really they're selling you a F2P game. It is madness. How do you not get this?
Because you dont need to spend a single cent in the cash shop to enjoy the entire game?
Lets not kid ourselves, the stuff in the cash shop is fluff at best. No way in hell would they make a profit with the items that were leaked alone with no initial purchase.
Its not like RoM, AoC or SoE games (EQ1 / EQ2) at all, where you need to spend money to compete at max level. If you guys are so dumb that you think a 10% experience / karma boost is a mandatory purchase then you deserve to be ripped off.
Anet, if you do that, you might as well join with EA or Activision and become sex slaves with them for your entire lifes, as your game will be corrupted with that concept, as money -> players is the only way to gain enternal damnation and your games forever shunned with each logo of your game. You walk the same path like WoW, Bioware, and other popular slaves of EA and Activision... you don't want to join their bondage.
Anet already did that with the first Guild Wars and that didn't corrupt them in any way. If anything, it has shown them how to properly handle a cash shop and not alienate your playerbase. Which allowed their first game to sell about 6 million copies.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
From what I understand, those keys will be available in the game itself, either as drops or from vendors. I agree though, it's hard to really judge at this point since the game is in beta and there is still an NDA in place for the cash shop. So chances are, whatever's in the cash shop, is not final.
They are droped in game I thought this was already stated like the above and certaint sources have/had that info already.
You mistake the above as statements, we're displaying a knowledge that it's not set in stone as of yet, and it's important to point out where the line should be drawn.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
From what I understand, those keys will be available in the game itself, either as drops or from vendors. I agree though, it's hard to really judge at this point since the game is in beta and there is still an NDA in place for the cash shop. So chances are, whatever's in the cash shop, is not final.
They are droped in game I thought this was already stated like the above and certaint sources have/had that info already.
Truth be told Its the drop rates of % of keys to chests that matters more then anything. If your getting 5 chests a day and one key your inventory management becomes a meta game. And my understanding right now is these things drop almost as bad as cardasian lock boxes did in STO..almost not quite as bad, but pretty close. I've heard 6 in a day, and I've heard 5-10 per hour so i figure its somewhere between there.
It is also my understanding the keys drop significantly less and for a cash shop item that makes sense. But that creates the real issue. If you cannot get enough keys through regular play to open the boxes. Then you will have to come up with another plan.. or sell them... and these things are sure on alot of different mobs loot tables. Its simply put not cool, and will affect your game if the loot you get you cannot use because through normal play you always end up with more chests then keys.
Yeah, cash shop's are never a good thing. The reason they exist is only because players have allowed them to exist, and the profit they provide these companies is purely ancillary. What does that mean? They're getting richer for providing you something that used to come with your subscription, or in the case of Guild Wars, came with your fucking box purchase.
Wanna know why the gaming community isn't united for the grand ol' cause of microtransactions? Because the only people who benefit are the developers, and the players are forced to pay more for something that was previously expected to come with their product. Even cosmetic items, as harmless as they are to the game world, simply give developers more creativity in the ways in which they charge you now, and expands upon the possibilities of new, undiscovered ways in which to fuck us monetarily.
Did you guys ever read that child's book, "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie"? The premise is pretty easy to understand, regardless, but if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk.
i mean sure, becuase P2P games that have come out in the last 5 years.. you buy your box, you buy your sub and then you still dont have half the features that we have come to expect should have come with a MMO developed at that time... but hey, why would you wanna spend $60 on a box and not have to keep paying a monthly sub waiting for your game to catch up to the times... having to pay a sub when a content patch is released to see if the game has gotten any better yet, no the fact they're letting you play anyway regardless of the state of the game without forcing you to purchase anything from the cash shop is blind robbery.. let's look at it this way
Character slots - you already get 5, there is 8 professions all up.. you need to buy 3 slots to make all the professions.. ohh nooo...
bag / bank sizes - you generally pay with ingame currency to expand those... whats the difference, ingame currency buys gems, gems buys the increase.. boo *swear word* hooo
honestly.. they're giving you one of the most feature rich MMO's to date in one of the largest gameworlds i have seen in a long time that isnt instanced to all hell and giving it to you for base price of $60 that isnt being released till they're happy with the polish on the game and all anyone wants todo is cry... less QQ about the cash shop... it's not turning the game Pay 2 Win, it's letting people who cant afford the sub play the game, it's helping those with the money support future development for the game and in closing... NO actual content is locked out from you in the game.. no classes, areas, quests, items, dungeons nothing.. it's all available to you for your box price.. so honestly less high horses or find another game
Some people's hate for microtransactions is so irrational at times that no matter how trivial the cash shop is, the rage will continue.
What's funny is that most of these people who hate cash shop are probably pay a subscription fee to an MMO which has a cash shop as well. It's OK for Blizzard, EA, Funcom and Turbine to have one but as soon as ANet does it, GW2 is pay2win.
I've noticed that the opposite is true. Many people have bashed EA, Funcom, Turbine, PWE, Cryptic, etc relentlessly as being greedy and pay to win because of their cash shops.
Suddenly, many of those same people are now singing the praises of cash shops, and how they have no impact on the game, simply because, well, now it's GW2.
In short, the mantra here appears to be: if another game does it, it's horrible, but if GW2 does the exact same thing, it's awesome. It's plain, flat-out dishonest.
Welcome to GW2 forums where Anet gets free pass on everything. if you spend some time checking post history of these CS defenders you will find out how they bashed other companies for doing the same. Most of them are either bi polar or have very weak memories.
The difference is that ANet's cash shop does not offer any pay2win items and most of those items will be attainable just by playing the game. Personaly, I don't see any harm in a cash shop like that, especially when there is no subscription fee involved.
Now if ANet starts selling items that actually give an unfair advantage, then that would be a different story.
you can buy gems, and then use those to buy gold... so, they're selling gold. And if you're able to convince yourself that in-game gold buys nothing that gives you any kind of advantage, then how can anyone possibly prove otherwise?
XP potions are an advantage, are they not? Having better gear NOW is an advantage over having better gear later, is it not?
Maybe you're fine with the advantages, but that doesn't stop them from being just that...
Leveling doesn't mean much in GW2. If you're level 80 and visit a level 20 zone, you get scaled to level 20. You get weapon skills by fighting and other skills via skill points that are attainable by perfoming various tasks in the game and you can't buy those. In PvP, everyone get's scaled to level 80, so your XP potion means zilch.
As far as gold goes, you get the best items in the game via karma you get by completing events and quests, not gold. So you can sell the gems to other players (not NPCs) for gold but being isanely rich won't mean much, since you still can't get the best items with gold and you can't trade/sell karma.
You cannot buy gear in the cash shop.
Any other issues you have?
You can buy gems in the cash shop, which you can use to buy gold, which you can use to buy gear... which means you can buy gear in the cash shop.
Now you want to argue that only the BEST items in the game can't be bought with gold... but all of the rest can? And buying these items will help you to EARN the best gear, thus still giving you an advantage.
And if you refuse to see how an XP potion is an advantage, no amount of common sense will get through to you.
you're failing to see that your level / gear is fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things...
Comments
I'm ok with Guild Wars 2 having microtransactions that save busy players time... thats cool... I've played many other games like that. Except... I didn't have to PAY A SINGLE PENNY FOR THE CLIENT.
Guild Wars 2 should be downloadable for free if they are going to have a significant cash shop.
No way I'm paying for the client. Sounds like this cash shop is going to have way more then just cosmetic items. That is full blown F2P with cash shop game. Give us the client for free.
Long Quote by Arenanet Dev Colin Johanson
"Just a few quick points to address here, I'll throw out I'm not on the micro-transaction team so I'm not the perfect person to be answering this, but I do think it's important to respond to a couple of these points with the best educated answer I can give since I think this something some of you have raised strong concerns over.
"ANET also said multiple times that there will only be cosmetic stuff to buy in the cash- shop which was a straight lie. Even when those boosts only save you 15 minutes per event (like some people said here, i dont really know if those numbers are right), it still isnt just cosmetic."
Just to clarify, we have always said we would not sell anything that makes you more powerful than another player, things like cosmetic items, character slots, etc. There will never be gear for sale in our store that is better than other players can get in a reasonable amount of time, and there will never be items that require a high bar of player skill to earn for sale that would ruin the prestige of such items.
Likewise it is our goal to not design the store such that to play the game you need to use it, we designed and built the game before the micro-transaction store was online to help specifically avoid requiring any of the items for game-play, we want them to be purely optional just like Gw1's store items.
Just like the shop in Gw1, the stuff you'll end in the Gw2 cash shop gives players who don't have as much time to play the game the opportunity to spend cash to speed up their progress instead of time. For example, the core form of progression in Gw1 was unlocking skills, in Gw1 you could purchase skill packs that would save you the large amounts of time you would spend earning gold and hunting down skills in the game if you wished to do so. One of the great differences (and benefits) of the current system is it does introduce a balance to players from both side. In Gw1, people could exchange money to save time by purchasing skill packs, however people could not exchange time to get a number of the items from our store like character slots, costumes, etc. This system was not fair to people who didn't want to spend money on the game, because there were goods they simply could not attain, even if they were mostly vanity items or progression speeding items like skill unlocks.
In Gw2, we have continued that exact same tradition, many of the things that take time but no specifically level of player skill, you can spend money on if you wish just like skill unlocks worked in gw1. However, we have also evened the playing field by allowing players who wish to spend time and not money to purchase everything from the shop by using time played to earn gold, which they can change into gems to buy everything from character slots, costumes, and more for simply playing the game.
We realize any time we introduce any sort of store or micro-transaction to the game it will come with questions, a feeling of concern that other players might be able to buy their way to be better than us, or a feeling of frustration that other players could one-up your experience by out-doing the time you've spent by simply unloading loads of cashola. We too are first and foremost gamers, and many of us have been turned off by games where we load in and see moments like, "Spend $20 to get the most powerful weapon."', that sucks. We feel like in Gw1, the overwhelming majority of our player base didn't ?nd skill unlocks (which was a means of speeding up the core form of progression and reward in Gw1) to be unfair, and it never effected anyone's game—play that someone else was able to purchase them. We have tried to model the Gw2 MTX system to take the same thing into account, now that level/karma/basic-item progression has replaced skill unlock progression as the key form of progression and basic reward progression in Gw2, we have offered the ability to speed that process just like we did with skill packs in Gw1.
Just like Gw1, we will NOT allow players to purchase items like rare dungeon armors and weapons that are earned through high amounts of player skill to provide prestige for the players in the world. (Please note: the ressurect orb only puts players into the downed state and slowly gives them back health, in a dungeon this means if there are any mobs nearby you will be killed again long before you can ever res, preventing this from allowing dungeons to be progressed easier by spending $, since dungeons require a specifically player skill to overcome. If there are not mobs nearby, you could simply use the nearby res shrine. This is simply a convenience item to save time on the run back from the res shrine if you wish to do so and has no effect on power or game-balance.)
Better than Gw1, we will NOT let players purchase faster progression in competitive PVP. (You could buy skill unlock packs in Gw1 for PVP, we have no like items to speed competitive PvP progression in Gw2)
Better than Gw1, players who do not wish to spend a dime on the game will have access to all of the items in the MTX store like character slots and costumes simply by spending time in the game, where in Gw1 only players who spent cash were allowed access to such goods. We view this system as superior to Gw1, because in our first game, players who didn't want to spend money on the game were locked out of the ability to get any of the special items in our store. In Gw2, this system allows ANY player the ability to purchase items from our store, by simply making the choice of playing the game (time), or spending real $ to speed up that progress if they wish.
I'd also like to address the quote I've seen foating around about "we can put anything in our store because anyone in the game can buy it for gold" [By Rubi Bayer aka old massively coloumnist]. We have a strict policy of what stuff we're comfortable with going in our store, as noted above, and we simply will not throw those rules out the window since anything in the store can be purchased for gold. That was an unfortunate quote, and does not reflect our view on the MTX store. I hope this helps a clarify a bit on where we stand and our background on these decisions as I understand them, a member of our micro-transaction team could probably provide more context and a better written explanation than this, we content guys usually do events and story; but I hope that helps a bit.
I'd ask most importantly you all remember the game is still in beta, and we're trying a lot of this stuff to get your feedback specifically thanks for all your well thought out points everyone we truly appreciate it!
Finally in regards to the original question of this thread, we will not be charging a monthly fee for Gw2. We firmly believe players should have the option to enjoy our game without ever having to spend a dime beyond the original purchase price if they see fit, and we will not change that model, it worked great for us in Gw1, and we're betting our company that it will work great for us again in Gw2."
I would love you naysers counter-argue this post if you guys still think GW2 is pay to win.
"Kids" wasn't meant as an insult. So I'll retract it with apologies. That said.
I see your points and they are valid ones. My only response is that there's way too much "If" in there. There's a lot of ways they could choose to deal with the posisibility of inflation. And you're right that if they have to choose between affecting people paying more and people not, they're more likely to affect the people not handing them money. Which I can completely understand. But until I see proof that this will 100% unequivoacably harm my ability to enjoy the game, I see no reason not to play it. Worst cast, my 60 bucks gets me several months of a fun MMO until something goes wrong and I decide to leave. At which point I only spent 60, not the 60+15/month I might have on another game.
It's not a significant cash shop though. The cash shop is completely optional. That's the point. It offers certain items for cash, items that can be acquired in the game just by playing it.
Honestly, I'm still ok with the idea of a cash shop in general, I never had a big problem with them in other games because hey, I don't buy anything from them, but frankly, the fact that I can make the game last longer (provided I enjoy it at a basic level) by NOT buying shortcuts sits well with me. So other players may get something faster than I do...
So...?
No, seriously, so what? Am I even going to notice or have the time to check which people earned their gear/items through cash? Nope, I'm just going to play the game the way I'd have played the game anyway, the way I played every other game that had a cash shop and didn't buy anything then either. And if I want the shit they have, I can just work for it like I do for achievements in a common steam game..... for fun.
Honestly, I think people are WAAAAAY too concerned with what other players are doing.
As far as "uniting the community" I don't know about all that, but I also think the vast majority of people will get used to it and ANet will listen to the ones that have good ideas about its implimentation. They usually are pretty good at listening.
Thank you! I feel bad my original post turned into a Zerg fest for this horrid, and completely misunderstood by most people argument.... Also add In eir that it is a player-based economy, gold and gems are transferred between players, gold can not be directly bought between the buyer and the shop, and that these children need to learn some basic economics. Thanks!http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
As long as the prices aren't outrageous I don't mind. If I spend 10 bucks on a potion I expect it to last more than 2 hours *stares at $OE*.
I don't think it's people worried about what people are doing, instead it's people worrying about what devs are doing to gaming in general. If things go too far in this direction we'll end up with arcades, "insert coin" to play for five minutes... yeah that's extreme, but i think you get the point
.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This isn't exactly obvious yet, it also depends on what you mean by optional. Say the infamous "mystic key" is something you need to open a type of loot in game, is it still completely optional? Optional to me means there's nothing in-game effected by it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Purchasing the game gives you access to everything in the game, there are none of the typical limitations associated with many of the other F2P MMO games.
Then again this sounds like another typical, I just want a game for free complaint, which is so prevelant in these discussions.
I will agree 200% to this. HOWEVER.
So far Anet keeps saying they don't want a gameplay-breaking cash shop. Now, we don't know what the loot bags will have, or if the keys can be obtained in game as well as the shop, or if the chests have gear of such clear superiority that no one without it standa a chance.
We DO know many statements by Anet have said this is something they do not want to do. Until I see the stats for the items from the chests, they are optional, cash shop items in general are optional, and the cash shop is not, as the earlier postsers phrased it "significant". Thus continuing to justtify my wish to play the game. Innocent until proven guilty in my book.
That's not to say there's no reason to express concern. On the contrary, it's VERY important we express our worries about these things. I just wish people weren't doing it by saying "OMG Anet sold us out all they care about is money they're going 100% p2w this is a scam OMG RAEG!!!!!"
First off those people make themselves look like idiots by spouting off baseless accusations. Secondly, they drown out LEGITIMATE expressions of concern, and thirdly, they unfairly sway opinions of those that haven't had the opportunity to get all the facts.
Well it's a good thing to wonder about I guess, after all if most money-making companies know they can get away with something, they might try for the next level. However, I see a lot of people complaining here, some who don't even intend to play the game in the first place. I think ANet should open up their official forums ASAP if they want to get the full effect of unhappy consumers before release. Barring that, I hope the beta players don't just let something bad slip by uncontested.
I can definitely see where the naysayers are coming from. I too share their views on the matter, for the most part.
Having played GW1 for over 5 years, I have experience with ANet and their position on microtransactions. The stuff is completely optional and does not give anyone an unfair advantage. Their cash shop is one of the least intrusive in any MMO. Every single weapon, armor, minipet or any other item can only be acquired by playing the game. In the 5 years of playing GW1, I spent about $20 on a few costumes, not counting campaign prices of course.
Let's face it, the game has no subscription fee at all. The completely optional cash shop is perfectly fine in my book. Now if you take other AAA MMOs like WoW, AoC, LoTRO, WAR, etc. which have a cash shop on top of a subscription fee, that's a different issue. One I have a slight problem with.
It is absolutly rediculous that the amount of time played has little effect on the rewards you get in the game. If I play the game for 13 hours a day and somebody else only plays an hour a day and they can fight the same giant monsters as me why should I bother? If they can get the same gear as me why should I bother?
Oh, that's right, I have to pay $50 a month just to keep competitive in the PvE market, that's ridiculous. This is a slap in the face, a betrayal, of all loyal ANet fans. This game will be a snack instead of a full meal, it will only last about a year before it fails, all thanks to the P2W shop...err I mean cash shop.
This.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
From what I understand, those keys will be available in the game itself, either as drops or from vendors. I agree though, it's hard to really judge at this point since the game is in beta and there is still an NDA in place for the cash shop. So chances are, whatever's in the cash shop, is not final.
They are droped in game I thought this was already stated like the above and certaint sources have/had that info already.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Anet, if you do that, you might as well join with EA or Activision and become sex slaves with them for your entire lifes, as your game will be corrupted with that concept, as money -> players is the only way to gain enternal damnation and your games forever shunned with each logo of your game. You walk the same path like WoW, Bioware, and other popular slaves of EA and Activision... you don't want to join their bondage.
Of course, I agree with everything you said here. It's always safe at points such as this to keep thoughts in the realm of the hypothetical and possibilities.
I don't feel the shop looks P2W, in fact my concerns are more on a genre level rather than a GW2 level. I've always viewed RMT legal or otherwise as more or less a form of cheating. Taking shortcuts is usually looked at in this way. Devs used to seem to feel the same, yet that changed some where along the path to here.
Today they seem to be accepting of short-cuts, to me that's troubling for the genre and it's integrity. It says a lot about who they view as their customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Because you dont need to spend a single cent in the cash shop to enjoy the entire game?
Lets not kid ourselves, the stuff in the cash shop is fluff at best. No way in hell would they make a profit with the items that were leaked alone with no initial purchase.
Its not like RoM, AoC or SoE games (EQ1 / EQ2) at all, where you need to spend money to compete at max level. If you guys are so dumb that you think a 10% experience / karma boost is a mandatory purchase then you deserve to be ripped off.
Anet already did that with the first Guild Wars and that didn't corrupt them in any way. If anything, it has shown them how to properly handle a cash shop and not alienate your playerbase. Which allowed their first game to sell about 6 million copies.
You mistake the above as statements, we're displaying a knowledge that it's not set in stone as of yet, and it's important to point out where the line should be drawn.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Truth be told Its the drop rates of % of keys to chests that matters more then anything. If your getting 5 chests a day and one key your inventory management becomes a meta game. And my understanding right now is these things drop almost as bad as cardasian lock boxes did in STO..almost not quite as bad, but pretty close. I've heard 6 in a day, and I've heard 5-10 per hour so i figure its somewhere between there.
It is also my understanding the keys drop significantly less and for a cash shop item that makes sense. But that creates the real issue. If you cannot get enough keys through regular play to open the boxes. Then you will have to come up with another plan.. or sell them... and these things are sure on alot of different mobs loot tables. Its simply put not cool, and will affect your game if the loot you get you cannot use because through normal play you always end up with more chests then keys.
i mean sure, becuase P2P games that have come out in the last 5 years.. you buy your box, you buy your sub and then you still dont have half the features that we have come to expect should have come with a MMO developed at that time... but hey, why would you wanna spend $60 on a box and not have to keep paying a monthly sub waiting for your game to catch up to the times... having to pay a sub when a content patch is released to see if the game has gotten any better yet, no the fact they're letting you play anyway regardless of the state of the game without forcing you to purchase anything from the cash shop is blind robbery.. let's look at it this way
Character slots - you already get 5, there is 8 professions all up.. you need to buy 3 slots to make all the professions.. ohh nooo...
bag / bank sizes - you generally pay with ingame currency to expand those... whats the difference, ingame currency buys gems, gems buys the increase.. boo *swear word* hooo
honestly.. they're giving you one of the most feature rich MMO's to date in one of the largest gameworlds i have seen in a long time that isnt instanced to all hell and giving it to you for base price of $60 that isnt being released till they're happy with the polish on the game and all anyone wants todo is cry... less QQ about the cash shop... it's not turning the game Pay 2 Win, it's letting people who cant afford the sub play the game, it's helping those with the money support future development for the game and in closing... NO actual content is locked out from you in the game.. no classes, areas, quests, items, dungeons nothing.. it's all available to you for your box price.. so honestly less high horses or find another game
you're failing to see that your level / gear is fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things...