Of course it's the players. Players like what they like.
SWTOR is not an MMORPG in my opinion. I felt like playing 'that' game from 2004, only this time with another skin and fully voiced. However, in SWTOR they took out the 'MMO' part. There are many more things I didn't like about it, but this is the major complaint for me.
luckely, I played the beta myself and also were able to play this game at my friends place. Didn't spend a dime. In my opinion, BioWare shouldn't have market this game as MMORPG, but as a Co-RPG. Next to that, where the hell did they spend all that development money on, because some parts are severely lacking (character creation, PVP).
The same people will tell you how much they hate the planets and the linear quests and so on, open world pvp is all that matters ect. even though most of them haven't seen anymore of the individual worlds outside of the flight paths to the class quests they jammed through.
The problem with SWTOR is that the player is forced into the linear storyline for the most part. You can't even get a ship to travel to other planets without following the storyline, and the storyline quests level you beyond the planet they take place on. If you attempt to play through side quests and group content, you will outlevel your story quests.
The game is poorly balanced in this respect, and this is the reason people largely call SWTOR a single player RPG with a co-op mode.
The real problem is what the OP hinted at but I have yet to see anyone complain about - too much experience is given in pvp.
It took me over a month to get to level 50 and my son did it in a week. Yes, I was taking some time to savor the Star Wars atmosphere, but the critical factors were that I did my leveling mostly solo with no pvp and my son grouped and did pvp exclusively. For all those people saying it is too easy to rush to max level in SWTOR try leveling a toon from 1 to 50 playing solo with no pvp. Obviously it can be done - but it is no rush.
I agree with many of the commenters here that a lot of the complainers are looking for their MMO of choice to be an MMO FPS. I would say that those complainers are strictly pvp players.
My question is did Bioware deliberately buff up pvp (making it MUCH easier to level up by pvp versus story), thus encouraging pvp players (until they hit max level) to sub to make their (Bioware) sub numbers more impressive?
Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product.
Actually it is. People want to run out and buy something without making sure they are going to like it (i.e research) and then rant because it doesn't meet their requirements? Yeah, it's their fault.
No. It is not. If you bring out a product which people dont like it is your fault for not gauging your potential customers before creating the product. You can never say it is the customers fault for not liking your product. It is the responsibility of the producers/developers to create something which people will like, it is never the responsibility of consumers to like a product, ever.
ok so by your logic.
I don't like Mars bars. So I buy one take a bite and then realize that I don't like it, it's their fault? They said the Mars bar were very good and tasty. It's their fault because my idea of tasty is differrent from theirs?
So BW is supposed to know what everyone likes and make a game for them?
As far as the bugs and lack of certain fetaures go? Well, unlike the masses out there, I actually waited a month and did some research on how things were before making my choice. Yes, there are issues but I'm enjoying the game enough to wait for the resolution.
"It's never the responsibility of the consumer to like a product ever." - Not even sure what to say about that except it's probably the dumbest thing I have read on this forum and that says a lot.
I took my time, enjoyed my Sith Inquis story, yet when it zoomed in on my toons face, as I had become a master of the universe, I knew, in the core of my very being that I...
Had beat the game.
Yes thats right, I beat an MMO.
Thats the feeling you get when you finish a main storyline in SWTOR, and the funny thing is, it gave me a sense of closure. Sadly with no more story to play through I was rather sad, did all the dungeons stories a few dozen times and played all the PVP and endgame that was available for three months.
Yet now I unsubbed.
Why?
not enough story content.
for a game that is all about their fourth pilar, they sure didn't have a whole lot of story considering how long they worked on the game and how much it cost them to make... I'd have expected far more story.
The real problem is what the OP hinted at but I have yet to see anyone complain about - too much experience is given in pvp.
It took me over a month to get to level 50 and my son did it in a week. Yes, I was taking some time to savor the Star Wars atmosphere, but the critical factors were that I did my leveling mostly solo with no pvp and my son grouped and did pvp exclusively. For all those people saying it is too easy to rush to max level in SWTOR try leveling a toon from 1 to 50 playing solo with no pvp. Obviously it can be done - but it is no rush.
I agree with many of the commenters here that a lot of the complainers are looking for their MMO of choice to be an MMO FPS. I would say that those complainers are strictly pvp players.
My question is did Bioware deliberately buff up pvp (making it MUCH easier to level up by pvp versus story), thus encouraging pvp players (until they hit max level) to sub to make their (Bioware) sub numbers more impressive?
I played for only one month and I didn't PvP at all. I leveled a PowerTech to mid 20s, Inquisitor to mid 20s, Op to 30, and Merc to 40 in that time. Had I concentrated on one character (I like to try different classes) I probably could've gotten to 50 in 2 weeks. I work a full time job, and have friends I spend time with IRL, so its not like I played 20 hours a day either. Even without PvP, the game levels you much you fast for my tastes.
I enjoy this game I have one lvl 50 and the story is great. I had no story in WOW I feel a closer connection to my main in SWTOR, In WOW I HAD 8 lvl 85's but really no character I felt attached to. The story sold me and I savored it like a fine wine.
I plan on creating a atl for each story but I still playing my main each day and have never have time for a new avatar.
SWTOR is a new game more content will come and I look forward to it.
Id say this is more like an american-made JRPG. Its more about the 'storytelling' and less about the 'expression' or fantasy. You dont get to 'be' the character, youre told who the character is, while making good/bad choices for them. In my opinion, MMOs would be better if more like say... Skyrim(Sandboxish). To some extent and watching vids, I think GuildWars is taking a step in that direction(you can actually use abilities without targeting someone, and it will hit whos in front of you).
Some people like Stories told to them .Some people like to make thier OWN stories. Both are RPG, just different.
I enjoy this game I have one lvl 50 and the story is great. I had no story in WOW I feel a closer connection to my main in SWTOR, In WOW I HAD 8 lvl 85's but really no character I felt attached to. The story sold me and I savored it like a fine wine. I plan on creating a atl for each story but I still playing my main each day and have never have time for a new avatar. SWTOR is a new game more content will come and I look forward to it.
They had 5+ years to make story content.
Thats all the story you got for your toon.
I am very disappointed with the amount of main storyline that they gave you to do in this game.
Sure they might advance the main story of the game, but I really doubt we'll see the main story of our toon get much love in the next few years.... Which sadly is the main draw to the game.
The OP is right, I have accepted full responsibility and have sent a full sincere letter of apology to Bioware for my shortcomings, I am trying to learn to enjoy shallow gameplay, broken PvP and extreme linearity but I am set in my ways and it is hard for me. I wonder if players of niche games will ever stop ragging on the sandbox genre.
If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.
Yeah, but in that case TORs shouldn't had the PvP in the first case, and the marketting was what lured these people in.
The golden rule of games is "Do it right or not at all".
So as I see it are both part to blame, EAs marketting tricked people who shouldn't have played the game to buy it and Bioware added PvP as an afterthought because they think MMOs must have it.
The same have happened in PvP based games who added some lame PvE and tried to sell to PvE fans as well. If it ain't good it will hurt your game, no matter if you sell more boxes the first month.
No one was tricked why do you lie. Everyone had a chance to play this game in beta weekends yet they bought it.
Everyone read negative crap from this site yet they bought it.
I think most people playing are enjoying the game And don't have the time to read t he crap written here.
But to each his own. GW2 will get the same treatment from these boards and possibly worst.
I my self will try GW2 and make my own opinion on the game.
I took my time, enjoyed my Sith Inquis story, yet when it zoomed in on my toons face, as I had become a master of the universe, I knew, in the core of my very being that I...
Had beat the game.
Yes thats right, I beat an MMO.
Thats the feeling you get when you finish a main storyline in SWTOR, and the funny thing is, it gave me a sense of closure. Sadly with no more story to play through I was rather sad, did all the dungeons stories a few dozen times and played all the PVP and endgame that was available for three months.
Yet now I unsubbed.
Why?
not enough story content.
for a game that is all about their fourth pilar, they sure didn't have a whole lot of story considering how long they worked on the game and how much it cost them to make... I'd have expected far more story.
I laughed when I read this, because when we finished our raid, my friend said the exact same thing!
I enjoy this game I have one lvl 50 and the story is great. I had no story in WOW I feel a closer connection to my main in SWTOR, In WOW I HAD 8 lvl 85's but really no character I felt attached to. The story sold me and I savored it like a fine wine. I plan on creating a atl for each story but I still playing my main each day and have never have time for a new avatar. SWTOR is a new game more content will come and I look forward to it.
They had 5+ years to make story content.
Thats all the story you got for your toon.
I am very disappointed with the amount of main storyline that they gave you to do in this game.
Sure they might advance the main story of the game, but I really doubt we'll see the main story of our toon get much love in the next few years.... Which sadly is the main draw to the game.
Since I finished my story I'm currently kind of creating my own RPGs but yes more story would be great from BIOWARE. And let me point out there are 7 other stories in the game.
Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product.
Actually it is. People want to run out and buy something without making sure they are going to like it (i.e research) and then rant because it doesn't meet their requirements? Yeah, it's their fault.
No. It is not. If you bring out a product which people dont like it is your fault for not gauging your potential customers before creating the product. You can never say it is the customers fault for not liking your product. It is the responsibility of the producers/developers to create something which people will like, it is never the responsibility of consumers to like a product, ever.
You can't please everyone. You can hardly blame a company for not being able to. The customer shouldn't be blamed either. Where does this nonsensical concept that everything must be someone's fault come from anyway?
No you dont need to please everyone but when you spend so much money, on such a great IP and after a year you have less than 300k subs, then you have failed. I am talking about WAR now but I think SW:TOR will be quite similar.
whatever you like, start looking for titles that make you happy and stop trying to change the ones that don't.
This is "the thing" right there... kind of.
I agree with that concept but I'd just change it a bit..
"Start looking for games that make you happy and stop paying for the ones that don't."
If people really ever want change to happen in the MMO market place... its that simple. Stop paying for games you don't like. We have endless threads here about this game is crap blah blah blah... well if people stopped buying the things... the companies would go bankrupt or get a clue.
The same could be said of pretty much everything trying to sell you a product or a service. It just doesn't happen very often that people actually vote with their wallets.
I suppose in the MMO market the Irony is that even if you find an MMO you do like... its going to be changed until you don't like it. Oddly enough if you buy one you don't like... its unlikely to be changed so that you do like it. So the obvious outcome of any MMO is that you either won't like it at release... or will not like it later (due to change). Conclusion? stop playing MMO's.
you are right to some degree, however i have to point out a few flaws.
it's not the players' collective faults that they promised better combat and didn't deliver
it's not the players' fault they promised better pve gameplay and didn't deliver (single player game with some multiplayer lobbying does not an mmo make)
it's not the players' fault that they launched the game in a broken beta format and still had the nerve to charge people the monthly fee to play, and didn't have a trial in the state it was in (basically charging people for a beta instead of a finished product.)
oh and just because they have the bare minimum (because it's mathematically impossible to have the same exact number of subs at launch as they do two to three months later as they claim so we can only assume they have just enough to pay back their borrowed money and get a tiny bit of profit to fix their mistakes) just because they have just enough which is 500,000 subs maybe a tad more. doesn't make a game a success. Sorry, but their devs were originally aiming at getting multimillion players, by their own "figures" that didn't happen and people have returned to their original games in droves. In all four i bounce around in and play, i keep reading how people played this game and were highly disappointed by it even in a pve sense and then went back to their original games. WoW, Rift, STO, LOTRO are now all filled with SWTOR refugees. If their figures were so good, why get their new financial director (because the other guy quit shortly after launch) to put out a "statement" of the same figure they had at launch instead of showing the report that gave the actual number...
so it's not the players' fault with all of it, sorry, the devs especially the lead had ALOT to do with the disappointments.
If people really ever want change to happen in the MMO market place... its that simple. Stop paying for games you don't like. We have endless threads here about this game is crap blah blah blah... well if people stopped buying the things... the companies would go bankrupt or get a clue.
I totally agree, if people didn't pay a sub to this company in this particular game, the devs would learn and do some changing. Look at WoW their seventh year after losing a total of 3million over the past couple of years, they finally decided to add something to the game that RPers wanted since vanilla. If this happened more often there would be less complaining.
But then again if there was more put into the games there would be less complaining. If the devs of games made the games have as much content as they could concerning the little things in gameplay most people would be happy. Like in Rift for example they still don't have much cosmetics, people are asking for that so they are adding it in next patch 1.8 along with many of the little things like fishing cooking camping that make a game fun in the fantasy genre.
It amazes me how many people on these forums who were complaining were also saying "yeah, i paid for 6 months of game time but i won't be logging in until their miracle patch" what does that tell the devs? "people must really like our game look at their sub" instead of "when was the last time they logged in, oh over a month ago huh?"
Kind of expounding on the "Fourth Pillar", I cant help but point out the real line between happy subscribers and unhappy unsubscribers is play style.
I've said it before, big title mmorpg's brought many new players into the fold, gone are the days of the close knit, die hard "yes M'lady" crowd from rpg games like EQ.
The reoccuring theme with the bulk of unhappy ex players is the way they typically play the game, (a quick caviot) I don't mean every single person fits this mold so use common sense at will.
Judging by some of the responses in this thread it's obvious this part was ignored.
You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests, they pee vee pee non stop, the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two.
The same people will tell you how much they hate the planets and the linear quests and so on, open world pvp is all that matters ect. even though most of them haven't seen anymore of the individual worlds outside of the flight paths to the class quests they jammed through.
It's the way I and many others played Warcraft, rip through the levels, get to endgame so you can farm gear in the arena or raids, and then quit because you are bored.
I am utterly content to play my character, fly to a planet and entrench myself in the content, levels happen with a story unfolding from talking, living beings in the worlds.
Sorry if this rpg game didn't meet your fps style, contrary to the silly and typical sky is falling crowd here, the game is still in existence and after a few months now, developement is ongoing to make it better.
Well better if you like role playing games anyway.
Well put. This game isn't going anywhere no matter how much the haters wish it so. I hope that WOW stays around a long time so that these rush to engame players will always have a place to go back to. My only wish is that they would stay there in the first place and stop trying to make every game like that one.This game is for people that like to take their time and immerse themselves in a role playing advernture. Ignoring quests and grinding mobs with no purpose is not role playing. That's Blizzard style playing and that market is saturated enough.
It amazes me how many people on these forums who were complaining were also saying "yeah, i paid for 6 months of game time but i won't be logging in until their miracle patch" what does that tell the devs? "people must really like our game look at their sub" instead of "when was the last time they logged in, oh over a month ago huh?"
I find that to be interesting as well. So many posters here who were trashing this game left and right during devlopment bought the game and then complained that it wasn't to their liking and they were ripped off. It reminds me of the poll taken years ago of people who listen to Howard Stern even though they can't stand him. If you don't like the looks of a game, then DON'T BUY IT. There's no award coming your way for playing every MMO that gets released.
If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.
I'm pretty sure the demands and features of an MMO a LITTLE more intrecate than table tennis.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.
Not much else to say on the subject. I bought FFXIII because I loved Call of Duty. I was very mad and upset that FFXIII was not a fps with real world strategy and objectives.
Kind of expounding on the "Fourth Pillar", I cant help but point out the real line between happy subscribers and unhappy unsubscribers is the play style they prefer. Agreed
I've said it before, big title mmorpg's brought many new players into the fold, gone are the days of the close knit, die hard "yes M'lady" crowd from rpg games like EQ. - I am from latter group, though never have said M'lady
The reoccuring theme with the bulk of unhappy ex players is the way they typically play the game, (a quick caviot) I don't mean every single person fits this mold so use common sense at will. Not sure I agree, while the group you have identified are indeed a large portion of the unhappy community, equally large (at least on these forums) are we Bitter Vets[TM] who grew up on MMORPG's that had features considerably different than standard theme park titles such as SWTOR.
You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests, they pee vee pee non stop, the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two. Now in my own case I took a different approach, I started one character, completed every single player quest that I could find, avoided all group content for the most part,did no spaceship combat and did one Huttball match. After well over a month I'm level 47 but sort of ran out of interest in getting to 50 so this week started a new Imperial sniper, mostly to enjoy the early story.
The same people will tell you how much they hate the planets and the linear quests and so on, open world pvp is all that matters ect. even though most of them haven't seen anymore of the individual worlds outside of the flight paths to the class quests they jammed through. -Again, that' isn't me, I've gone just about everywhere, however did not have the patience to find the codex's or whatever.
It's the way I and many others played Warcraft, rip through the levels, get to endgame so you can farm gear in the arena or raids, and then quit because you are bored.
I was in WOW at launch, and didn't play it at all the way you describe. Took me over 16 days played to get my first Paladin up to level 60, and didn't even know at the time that I was racing towards a raiding end game. (had only limited experience with raiding in DAOC/TOA, which I mostly avoided there too)
I am utterly content to play my character, fly to a planet and entrench myself in the content, levels happen with a story unfolding from talking, living beings in the worlds. Yeah, it was fun at first, especially in the beginning when most of the tnarrative is part of your personal story line. But much past the 20's and you get like one slim personal story line to follow and a whole bunch of filler content. First time through its cool, but on my level 47 Commando I've really become weary with the standard format of these filler quests, and the very repetitive and canned responses of my Commando. (Havoc squad can handle it sir.....gag). Now that I'm on my 2nd new story line on the empire side I'm finding it charming again, but not sure if I'll enjoy it all the way to level 50 once the filler quests really start to pile up.
Sorry if this rpg game didn't meet your fps style, contrary to the silly and typical sky is falling crowd here, the game is still in existence and after a few months now, developement is ongoing to make it better.
Well, of course it's still in existence, and will continue for a long time to come. But it's no WOW, never will be, (in terms of subscriptions/popularity) and if it holds higher than 500K subs after a year I'll be totally surprised. (and it will only happen if the new content they are planning is utterly amazing, at least IMO)
Well better if you like role playing games anyway.
Now see, this isn't really a role playing game, at least not how I'm used to it. Role playing to me was when I was part of Shadowclan in DAOC. An all Kobold (and later Sylvan) guild that actually role played to the extent we had our own language (Ug dir lat, Pinki!) and followed a strict set of cultural rules when interacting with the rest of the play community. (we never PK'd unaffiliated Kobolds, for fear of alientating future members, never grief killed someone twice as long as they moved away or payed us tribute etc)
I mean, SWOTOR is like a typical single player RPG, I suppose your right, but to me (remember, old school, bitter vet?) MMORPG's were supposed to provide you the virutual worlds to build your own stories. and they didn't have to be sandbox style games to do it.
Also, SWTOR is nothing like the single player RPG's I used to play, back in the 80's and 90's, its all modeled after these modern titles that came in the last 10 years. Where's my damn graph paper, turn based combat and parties of 6 adventurers?
I had some excellent adventures in the early titles such as L1/L1, DAOC, Shadowbane and even early WOW (pre BC). Later on I found EVE and really had a blast carving out a story of my own there, and I still can remember so many events that occurred, almost none of them scripted by the Developers.
But MMORPG's all evolved (?) into something I'm not terribly fond of, and therefore you'll see me crabbing about on these forums on a regular basis. And as you see my favorite titles all include some form of territory control, which SWTOR (and so many others) doesn't excel at.
Edit: BTW, just needed to add, I am not a PVP'er, in fact, Carebear accurately describes my playstyle, but I do enjoy fighting for a good cause.
So in the end, you're going to ask, why the heck did you buy SWTOR if all early indicators were that it wasn't going to agree with my favored play style.
Well, I figured out quite some time ago that there was a good chance I'd never see a MMORPG designed with the features that I am looking forward to, so I resolved to "find the fun" in any MMORPG that I play, and enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
Sometimes this is has been only a month, sometimes 3, not much longer for any title since EVE though. My only other alternative was to quit playing MMORPG's all together, but I still have hopes for the genre and figure eventually enough players will tire of the standard theme park model and eventually I won't be part of such a small niche anymore.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was absolutely and completely stupid to buy your game Bioware/EA
Sorry. It wont EVER happen again
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Well my favorite mmo was SWG pre-cu and it had everything that a mmorpg should offer. Sure it had it's bugs and some balance issues, but as for, community, player interdependency, real player economy, open world pvp and a whole bucket more, you couldn't get a better game.
I posted this before and i believe this to be the truth about TOR. Bioware's main intention was to cater to the KOTOR fans first and the mmo player second. It doesn't take playing the game very long to see that the game was made in the SPRPG model with coop features added, to try and satisfy and sell it as a mmorpg, It also didn't hurt that the game uses the SW IP.
The people that are defending TOR i would gander were bigger KOTOR fans than mmorpg gamers. I loved KOTOR myself, but it being what it is and Bioware trying to sell TOR as this huge mmorpg when it really is just KOTOR 3 with coop, is just flat out wrong.
Bioware took the chance and was betting that by using the SW brand and adding in VO and story, they could get by and somehow fool mmo gamers to thinking that the most important systems that really make up a great mmorpg could be overlooked and less wanted, which of course they bet wrong and are now trying to add in those things on top of a SP game foundation, that will not work. Another poster said it best. Bioware was selling TOR as a mmorpg with story and what they delivered was a story with .25% mmo.
As a SW fan first and a mmorpg gamer second, i really wish Bioware would have never been allowed to develope this game. It would have been better for them and for the mmo community if they would have stuck with just making KOTOR 3 and if they wanted to get into making mmo's, let them screw up their own IP by making a ME mmo and leaving the SW IP to a company that actually knows how to do the SW IP right.
Comments
Of course it's the players. Players like what they like.
SWTOR is not an MMORPG in my opinion. I felt like playing 'that' game from 2004, only this time with another skin and fully voiced. However, in SWTOR they took out the 'MMO' part. There are many more things I didn't like about it, but this is the major complaint for me.
luckely, I played the beta myself and also were able to play this game at my friends place. Didn't spend a dime. In my opinion, BioWare shouldn't have market this game as MMORPG, but as a Co-RPG. Next to that, where the hell did they spend all that development money on, because some parts are severely lacking (character creation, PVP).
The problem with SWTOR is that the player is forced into the linear storyline for the most part. You can't even get a ship to travel to other planets without following the storyline, and the storyline quests level you beyond the planet they take place on. If you attempt to play through side quests and group content, you will outlevel your story quests.
The game is poorly balanced in this respect, and this is the reason people largely call SWTOR a single player RPG with a co-op mode.
The real problem is what the OP hinted at but I have yet to see anyone complain about - too much experience is given in pvp.
It took me over a month to get to level 50 and my son did it in a week. Yes, I was taking some time to savor the Star Wars atmosphere, but the critical factors were that I did my leveling mostly solo with no pvp and my son grouped and did pvp exclusively. For all those people saying it is too easy to rush to max level in SWTOR try leveling a toon from 1 to 50 playing solo with no pvp. Obviously it can be done - but it is no rush.
I agree with many of the commenters here that a lot of the complainers are looking for their MMO of choice to be an MMO FPS. I would say that those complainers are strictly pvp players.
My question is did Bioware deliberately buff up pvp (making it MUCH easier to level up by pvp versus story), thus encouraging pvp players (until they hit max level) to sub to make their (Bioware) sub numbers more impressive?
ok so by your logic.
I don't like Mars bars. So I buy one take a bite and then realize that I don't like it, it's their fault? They said the Mars bar were very good and tasty. It's their fault because my idea of tasty is differrent from theirs?
So BW is supposed to know what everyone likes and make a game for them?
As far as the bugs and lack of certain fetaures go? Well, unlike the masses out there, I actually waited a month and did some research on how things were before making my choice. Yes, there are issues but I'm enjoying the game enough to wait for the resolution.
"It's never the responsibility of the consumer to like a product ever." - Not even sure what to say about that except it's probably the dumbest thing I have read on this forum and that says a lot.
I took my time, enjoyed my Sith Inquis story, yet when it zoomed in on my toons face, as I had become a master of the universe, I knew, in the core of my very being that I...
Had beat the game.
Yes thats right, I beat an MMO.
Thats the feeling you get when you finish a main storyline in SWTOR, and the funny thing is, it gave me a sense of closure. Sadly with no more story to play through I was rather sad, did all the dungeons stories a few dozen times and played all the PVP and endgame that was available for three months.
Yet now I unsubbed.
Why?
not enough story content.
for a game that is all about their fourth pilar, they sure didn't have a whole lot of story considering how long they worked on the game and how much it cost them to make... I'd have expected far more story.
I played for only one month and I didn't PvP at all. I leveled a PowerTech to mid 20s, Inquisitor to mid 20s, Op to 30, and Merc to 40 in that time. Had I concentrated on one character (I like to try different classes) I probably could've gotten to 50 in 2 weeks. I work a full time job, and have friends I spend time with IRL, so its not like I played 20 hours a day either. Even without PvP, the game levels you much you fast for my tastes.
I plan on creating a atl for each story but I still playing my main each day and have never have time for a new avatar.
SWTOR is a new game more content will come and I look forward to it.
Ajax
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1/
Id say this is more like an american-made JRPG. Its more about the 'storytelling' and less about the 'expression' or fantasy. You dont get to 'be' the character, youre told who the character is, while making good/bad choices for them. In my opinion, MMOs would be better if more like say... Skyrim(Sandboxish). To some extent and watching vids, I think GuildWars is taking a step in that direction(you can actually use abilities without targeting someone, and it will hit whos in front of you).
Some people like Stories told to them .Some people like to make thier OWN stories. Both are RPG, just different.
They had 5+ years to make story content.
Thats all the story you got for your toon.
I am very disappointed with the amount of main storyline that they gave you to do in this game.
Sure they might advance the main story of the game, but I really doubt we'll see the main story of our toon get much love in the next few years.... Which sadly is the main draw to the game.
I did enjoy this game. My most memorable moments were PVPing in battlemaster gear and pressing spacebar lots in PVE.
Yeah, but in that case TORs shouldn't had the PvP in the first case, and the marketting was what lured these people in.
The golden rule of games is "Do it right or not at all".
So as I see it are both part to blame, EAs marketting tricked people who shouldn't have played the game to buy it and Bioware added PvP as an afterthought because they think MMOs must have it.
The same have happened in PvP based games who added some lame PvE and tried to sell to PvE fans as well. If it ain't good it will hurt your game, no matter if you sell more boxes the first month.
No one was tricked why do you lie. Everyone had a chance to play this game in beta weekends yet they bought it.
Everyone read negative crap from this site yet they bought it.
I think most people playing are enjoying the game And don't have the time to read t he crap written here.
But to each his own. GW2 will get the same treatment from these boards and possibly worst.
I my self will try GW2 and make my own opinion on the game.
Ajax
I laughed when I read this, because when we finished our raid, my friend said the exact same thing!
They had 5+ years to make story content.
Thats all the story you got for your toon.
I am very disappointed with the amount of main storyline that they gave you to do in this game.
Sure they might advance the main story of the game, but I really doubt we'll see the main story of our toon get much love in the next few years.... Which sadly is the main draw to the game.
Since I finished my story I'm currently kind of creating my own RPGs but yes more story would be great from BIOWARE. And let me point out there are 7 other stories in the game.
Ajax
No you dont need to please everyone but when you spend so much money, on such a great IP and after a year you have less than 300k subs, then you have failed. I am talking about WAR now but I think SW:TOR will be quite similar.
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This is "the thing" right there... kind of.
I agree with that concept but I'd just change it a bit..
"Start looking for games that make you happy and stop paying for the ones that don't."
If people really ever want change to happen in the MMO market place... its that simple. Stop paying for games you don't like. We have endless threads here about this game is crap blah blah blah... well if people stopped buying the things... the companies would go bankrupt or get a clue.
The same could be said of pretty much everything trying to sell you a product or a service. It just doesn't happen very often that people actually vote with their wallets.
I suppose in the MMO market the Irony is that even if you find an MMO you do like... its going to be changed until you don't like it. Oddly enough if you buy one you don't like... its unlikely to be changed so that you do like it. So the obvious outcome of any MMO is that you either won't like it at release... or will not like it later (due to change). Conclusion? stop playing MMO's.
you are right to some degree, however i have to point out a few flaws.
it's not the players' collective faults that they promised better combat and didn't deliver
it's not the players' fault they promised better pve gameplay and didn't deliver (single player game with some multiplayer lobbying does not an mmo make)
it's not the players' fault that they launched the game in a broken beta format and still had the nerve to charge people the monthly fee to play, and didn't have a trial in the state it was in (basically charging people for a beta instead of a finished product.)
oh and just because they have the bare minimum (because it's mathematically impossible to have the same exact number of subs at launch as they do two to three months later as they claim so we can only assume they have just enough to pay back their borrowed money and get a tiny bit of profit to fix their mistakes) just because they have just enough which is 500,000 subs maybe a tad more. doesn't make a game a success. Sorry, but their devs were originally aiming at getting multimillion players, by their own "figures" that didn't happen and people have returned to their original games in droves. In all four i bounce around in and play, i keep reading how people played this game and were highly disappointed by it even in a pve sense and then went back to their original games. WoW, Rift, STO, LOTRO are now all filled with SWTOR refugees. If their figures were so good, why get their new financial director (because the other guy quit shortly after launch) to put out a "statement" of the same figure they had at launch instead of showing the report that gave the actual number...
so it's not the players' fault with all of it, sorry, the devs especially the lead had ALOT to do with the disappointments.
I totally agree, if people didn't pay a sub to this company in this particular game, the devs would learn and do some changing. Look at WoW their seventh year after losing a total of 3million over the past couple of years, they finally decided to add something to the game that RPers wanted since vanilla. If this happened more often there would be less complaining.
But then again if there was more put into the games there would be less complaining. If the devs of games made the games have as much content as they could concerning the little things in gameplay most people would be happy. Like in Rift for example they still don't have much cosmetics, people are asking for that so they are adding it in next patch 1.8 along with many of the little things like fishing cooking camping that make a game fun in the fantasy genre.
It amazes me how many people on these forums who were complaining were also saying "yeah, i paid for 6 months of game time but i won't be logging in until their miracle patch" what does that tell the devs? "people must really like our game look at their sub" instead of "when was the last time they logged in, oh over a month ago huh?"
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I find that to be interesting as well. So many posters here who were trashing this game left and right during devlopment bought the game and then complained that it wasn't to their liking and they were ripped off. It reminds me of the poll taken years ago of people who listen to Howard Stern even though they can't stand him. If you don't like the looks of a game, then DON'T BUY IT. There's no award coming your way for playing every MMO that gets released.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm pretty sure the demands and features of an MMO a LITTLE more intrecate than table tennis.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Not much else to say on the subject. I bought FFXIII because I loved Call of Duty. I was very mad and upset that FFXIII was not a fps with real world strategy and objectives.
So in the end, you're going to ask, why the heck did you buy SWTOR if all early indicators were that it wasn't going to agree with my favored play style.
Well, I figured out quite some time ago that there was a good chance I'd never see a MMORPG designed with the features that I am looking forward to, so I resolved to "find the fun" in any MMORPG that I play, and enjoy it for as long as it lasts.
Sometimes this is has been only a month, sometimes 3, not much longer for any title since EVE though. My only other alternative was to quit playing MMORPG's all together, but I still have hopes for the genre and figure eventually enough players will tire of the standard theme park model and eventually I won't be part of such a small niche anymore.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
yep its my fault.
I was absolutely and completely stupid to buy your game Bioware/EA
Sorry. It wont EVER happen again
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Well my favorite mmo was SWG pre-cu and it had everything that a mmorpg should offer. Sure it had it's bugs and some balance issues, but as for, community, player interdependency, real player economy, open world pvp and a whole bucket more, you couldn't get a better game.
I posted this before and i believe this to be the truth about TOR. Bioware's main intention was to cater to the KOTOR fans first and the mmo player second. It doesn't take playing the game very long to see that the game was made in the SPRPG model with coop features added, to try and satisfy and sell it as a mmorpg, It also didn't hurt that the game uses the SW IP.
The people that are defending TOR i would gander were bigger KOTOR fans than mmorpg gamers. I loved KOTOR myself, but it being what it is and Bioware trying to sell TOR as this huge mmorpg when it really is just KOTOR 3 with coop, is just flat out wrong.
Bioware took the chance and was betting that by using the SW brand and adding in VO and story, they could get by and somehow fool mmo gamers to thinking that the most important systems that really make up a great mmorpg could be overlooked and less wanted, which of course they bet wrong and are now trying to add in those things on top of a SP game foundation, that will not work. Another poster said it best. Bioware was selling TOR as a mmorpg with story and what they delivered was a story with .25% mmo.
As a SW fan first and a mmorpg gamer second, i really wish Bioware would have never been allowed to develope this game. It would have been better for them and for the mmo community if they would have stuck with just making KOTOR 3 and if they wanted to get into making mmo's, let them screw up their own IP by making a ME mmo and leaving the SW IP to a company that actually knows how to do the SW IP right.