Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
MMO or E-sport?
bloodbone
Member Posts: 142
in Guild Wars 2
So I will preface this by saying I intend to buy GW2 and enjoy it as an E-sport type game.
There seems to be a lot of people with the impression this game is actually a MMORPG. Now this may simply be a distinction in how people classify things or maybe I have missed certain details about this game.
My understanding: (tell me if im wrong)
The only progression in this game is leveling 1-80 period. Dungeons etc. will offer no further advancement (outside of cosmetic);
Once you reach max level there is NOT a persistent world that players can affect in any meaningful way; (e.g. guild towns, conquering cities etc.,)
The large scale PvP battles will NOT happen in the open world but an instance that resets every few weeks.
So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport). General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.
Based on all of the above:
Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft.
In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.
Comments
*hands bloodbone his flame retardant pants*
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
Bit late for that to ask for that change. The devs decided otherwise long ago. There is a huge PVE world to play in and the e-sports is basicaly restricted to PVP maps (the 5vs5). I wouldn't even call WvWvW e-sports. It has too many PVE events in it.
Still in GW1, the e-sports was also restricted to mainly GvG, but it was enough reason for many players to keep playing GW.
EDIT: I just realised it comes down to that you are standing on your soapbox proclaiming what GW2 should be. While others are ignoring you because they are playing GW2
Its a E-sport mmo, is it ok now?
Why ask, when you are convienced you know the answer?
Must be a troll... Somethig serious like that? Oh come on.
What you consider a fully fledged MMORPG is your opinion and that is all it is. My opinion and many others of what actually makes an MMORPG is vastly different than yours.
Is it in an online persistant world?
Can thousands of people from all across the world play with eachother?
Do you play a character that progresses either through levels or through skills?
To me those are the core attributes of a MMORPG. Not dungeons, not owning land and definately not gear grind. Basically what I am trying to say is your opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
i choose both, 75% or so (pulling eyeballed guestimate out of my @#$ btw) of the content is pve and non E-sport pvp (W v W v W). so not really. so long as you play a ROLE in my opinion its still a RPG.. well preferably so long as there is a story and world to immerse yourself in and since thats a big fat Yep ima still go with BOTH.
Omg Lmaso...
Ok so despite having different views no one seems to say any of my three points are wrong or mis-informed. My conclusions based on my three points may seem dramatic but if your leveling for the sake of leveling just make it all about story and consider it another "side game".
People shouldnt be forced to go through the process of leveling... as lets face it........ when you hit 80 you are for all intense and purposes done............ with all but e-sport activites.
Also I havent made up my mind and If Im wrong on my three points please tell me so.
not really, like i said W v W is not really an E-sport and the part of the game that is supposed to be fun has nothing to do with levels, they probably would have had no levels if they could have gotten away with it (some people need levels to feel a sense of achievment instead of just enjoying the content).
the DE's are the main thing selling this game and they look like they will make the world feel alive (probably distract people from the dungeon they were gonna do too lol) from all appearances they are making this a game for you to enjoy the content and immerse yourself in a world that feels like its alive (and the W v W and structured *E-sport* pvp). im gonna enjoy all of it (not the structured pvp so much prolly tho)
EDIT: of course if the type of PVE game this game seems to be doesnt interest you or seem like it will hold your interest like it will be then of course (at the very least for you) it will be a E-sport game
It's both meant as an E Sport and MMO. Nice try at oversimplifying the product though.
I'll tell you how I know it's NOT an mmorpg I get to play it.
It's an mmo VG (video game with lots of folks).
I don't have time for an mmoRPG. Those take investment in a community. You have friends and enemies that you will get to know by name in an mmorpg. It takes time to gain various things in an mmorpg and you need a guild that you invest time in so that they invest time in you by making you a part of their weekly pve and pvp experiences. Time spent with friends that you will gain in your online RPG experience will come from an mmoRPG.
GW2 is just an E-sport with no meaningful community or purpose to anything. Unlike EQ Ultima DAoC and Asheron's Call, folks in ten years will not be talking about their glory days in GW2 lol. And because GW2 is just a game it means that I get to play it.
Hope that helps you to understand that this is indeed not an mmoRPG.
Fishing troll has good bait.
That said GW2 is a MMO.
Esport can't be programmed. It has to happen.
Is a baseball diamond a sport? No, it's a field.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
When you call the troll on the the statement, they typically respond with "Prove me wrong." This may be the first clue you have that you are working with a troll, but it is a dead give away that you got one. Here the message you are supposed to get is that the troll is wise and you are not, that the troll knows more about the subject at hand than you do. At least, that's what the troll wants you to believe. Again, it's simply an attempt to get you to react to the troll.
It sucks to see a well laid out, well thought argument as to (in this case) why GW2 is not an mmoRPG, and then to see a vague very small response. Though, I wish the political arena performed like this because then I would know to always vote for the person that was obviously the more intelligent.
Now, before you get upset, I'm not saying you are not intelligent. But please, for the sake of a debate that clarifies things for folks who really don't know what an mmorpg is because they are too young to have played EQ, DAoC, AC, and Ultima, place your reasons as to why GW2 is more than what it appears to be. I know you can do this because you would never have gotten your degree otherwise
There is a full-fledged MMO there. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. You people and your "meaningful" words should just go play a game that you think gives this mystical "meaningful" whatever it is you're looking for because as for me, I've found my mystical "meaningfulness" here.
This is not a game.
Well under those broad definitions every MMO is an E sport of some form or another. After all at some point leveling stops in every MMO.
It's not well laid out. It's one person's skewed view.
The game is a MMORPG. Because one, it's massive. Two, it's multiplayer. Three, you play it online. Four, you're offered a role. Five, you play that role. Six, it's a game.
Esport isn't a genre of game. It can happen with any game that happens to be produced electronically.
So this argument is troll spew.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Why is DAoC an MMORPG? i'm 19 and i've played it since 2005, i also consider GW2 to be an RPG, with variable things that make it a live world, like in DAoC open PvP, GW2 is instanced, Like DAoC, the PvE is seperate completely from any type of PvP, (exception of PvP server), unlike DAoC GW2 is trying to bring random people together in PvE. Only main thing i see different in DAoC as to GW2 with endgame is DAoC gave more incentive to PvP because of Realm Ranks, so other than that, there isn't a huge difference. and the fact that GW2 resets PvP every couple weeks, but in DAoC relics swapped hands weekly, if not 5-6 times on a weekend, and there are "orbs of power" in GW2. DAoC and GW2 with levleing are so similar, once you hit endgame what else is there other than PvP, or go get Draco ML10 temp, then go PvP.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Calling the OP's post a 'well laid out, well thought argument' is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Not only are most of his points half-truths at best, when taking it literally; If you look at the post as a whole his point seems to basically be implying that 'because this game isn't a sandbox, it's not an MMO'. By that definition, nearly NONE of the games on this website can be considered MMOs. Still think this is an intelligent discussion?
Furthermore, you are supporting the sandbox minded argument partially with themepark examples. Most of the things he's implying make an MMO are not present in EQ, or DAoC.
Progression doesn't stop the second you hit 80. It will take a bit of additional effort to accumulate max stat level 80 gear. It isn't handed to you, but you won't have to spend months getting it either. There are still skill points to earn, which unlock your healing/utility/elite skills. You earn skill points by leveling, but the majority are earned via a variety of skill point challenges in the world. There are also achievments to earn, some of which may provide benefits to your characters. In the Reddit on WvW, the participating dev also let slip that there will be trait point tomes in game, which will allow you to increase the number of trait points you have to spend on your trait builds by up to 20 pts. (No details on how you may earn these tomes was given).
So, there is post level cap progression, but no endless level cap gear grind. The goal post won't keep moving, once you get your max stat gear, that's the end of the stat based gear progression.
There is a persistent world. It's not a full sandbox, but player actions mean a lot more in this persistent world than in most MMORPGs.
World vs. World is seperate from Competative PVP. CPVP is the esport, seperate from the PVE world entirely. World vs. World vs. World utilizes your PVE character, with their own gear and skills, but effective level for everyone is raised to level 80. The 4 Massive zones that make up the WvW play space contain not only PvP objectives, but PvE and Dynamic Event content. It will provide some of the flavore of Open World PvP, while being segregated from the main PvE world. Yes, each War only lasts two weeks, before the bond between the three warring worlds break and a new match up is selected, but you earn bonuses for your world based on your level of success in WvW, so the effects on the entire PvE world persist beyond the WvW environment.
It's a full fledged MMORPG. It is not a "sand box" MMO, but there are some sand box elements.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I'm surprised that so many people think Guild Wars 2 is *that* different from previous mmorpgs. Those that do are in for a disappointment .
I'm not saying that its a WOW clone or anything. Guild Wars 2 is an evolutionary mmorpg with elements of the first Guild Wars and elements of other more traditional mmorpgs like WoW, WAR/Daoc, etc. If you watch the hours upon hours of gameplay videos I'm not sure how you can think its anything else. Personally I think I'm going to love Guild Wars 2. For me its a great combination of the best elements from several different mmorpgs.
Game is months from release and allredy pvp and endgame gear grind group raid complainers are whining.
This game might be good.