I believe perfect world has no loading (other than instances?) between zones, and you could basically fly/walk from one end of the map to another. It does have instances though, and its a bit (lot?) on pay2win side, just thought i could mention it.
and theres of course ... Tibia! That one is a ... bit .. .old, just some 15 years or so, not a biggie tho. Vanguard is open world but atm its pretty dead, at least til it goes f2p route, but even then not sure how many people will stick with it, if $oe uses their 'more of a trial than f2p' model for this one too.
immersion wise, no instances mmo can get even close to open world games, but as those take much more resources/time to develop, we end up with 99% of games being instanced to no end, some even to that extend that it feels like you are playing one of moba games
I don't see it being an issue for me, as long as the MMO is good and an enjoyable game, FFXI wasnt seamless and was rather a good MMO imo. Yet WoW even though it felt seamless didnt do anything for me and felt FFXI was a superior product to WoW.
Tibia is scary, insane death penalty and my character is forever stuck down a hole which is the only reason I stopped playing.
haha yea, and mind you i used to play it back in dial up days, where one wrong phone call could kill you. quite literally i got used to it (death penalty, not dial up connection ) but what killed it for me was bots/hotkeys system that got introduced a couple of years ago. It used to be fun little game where skill really did matter a lot, and it was fun even with their servers going down from time to time and you losing a couple of days of progression :P
what i also miss is tibia's quest system. In new gen mmos quests are just a task, which you end up hating and they feel like a chore. Now whenever i see some 'new' game advertising as 'awesome game with over 2,800 quests' it makes me cry a bit Yes and out of those 2,800 you get to kill 10-20 differently looking mobs 2,600 times, heh.
Tibia quests were actually interesting, required coordination, exploration and a bit of brain too. Ah and there was not a single quest to kill 10 rats, god i love that game
Vanguard saga of heros and AC are the only two i can think of that is not insta*or heavy insta* i tell ya i was in a cave in vanguard today and it felt so real and alive. It was awesome. The exit of the cave going into thhe world just made it feel so real and the fact that the cave monsters kept running after me when i was out was funny to lol.
There have been other old games as well, Like Lineage...
Vanguard is the most modern of then though. The real problem is that it is really hard to mix good graphics and seamless world.
But the next gen harddrives (after SSDs) will be a combination of ram and hd, that will solve the problem for good. Then you can suddenly have the entire game in memory making loading screens obsolete. It is a few years away still though even if Samsung have a working cell phone memory with the technology.
Vanguard is the most modern of then though. The real problem is that it is really hard to mix good graphics and seamless world....
I'm not sure that's the reason, for me Vanguard's graphics are good and they manage without loading screens, instances and zones just fine.
I believe that for the current AAA themeparks a seamless world has just no design priority. They have loads of cutscenes and instances for "structured" gameplay, thus the whole game world is more a set of mini-maps than a world anyway. Thus they trow in more of that for the "cineastic" experience.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
2 games that I thought had the best "I m living in a world" feel, were DAOC and FFXI. They had loading screens, but I just didn t notice them. To me, loading screens are ok, if they re not all the time. DAOC and FFXI had such huge zones, it just didn t feel like I was loading all the time.
I'm not sure that's the reason, for me Vanguard's graphics are good and they manage without loading screens, instances and zones just fine.
I believe that for the current AAA themeparks a seamless world has just no design priority. They have loads of cutscenes and instances for "structured" gameplay, thus the whole game world is more a set of mini-maps than a world anyway. Thus they trow in more of that for the "cineastic" experience.
Yeah, but they had a nightmare getting the code right. I said it was hard, not impossible. And even VG have some shortcuts as you see when you look on a treetop, they focused the good graphics on the stuff they thought most important.
It is true that a lot of the instances are made to make the game more structured and cinmatic but those games often have zooning in the "open" world as well.
In my opinion, instancing breaks the immersion factor in MMOs...that's why I never cared much for Guild Wars or Vindictus or other heavily instanced games. When WoW came up with the Dungeon Finder, that really hurt the game for me.
In my opinion, the pendulum has swung away from a single world to instancing, maybe because it's easier for servers to handle.
Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.
Yeah, it's amazing how much it adds to the world. It's not part of the gameplay but makes the game so much better and immersive.
I recall TERA selling with "open seamless world, no loading screens" kind of phrase in its website. That actually got my interest up for that game looking at all these other new mmorpgs coming and each of them have loading screens like TSW and GW2 (TOR having load screen horror house, where ever you turn there's a loading screen).
Then again, TSW and GW2 seems like better games gameplay wise to me, TERA has nice looking combat but TSW with the fresh setting and interesting char building with other nice things like investigation and stuff past kill 10 rats, GW2 with dynamic events and other potentially interesting things. TERA might be seamless but it's just hack'n'slash till the world ends, afaik there's nothing else to do in the world than repeat the same old kill 10 pigs quest untill you realize you've seen all there is to the game... The combat seems fun but will it alone keep my interest up? I highly doubt /shrug.
Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.
Lol. I really thought about the early real open world mmos.. but WoW? Wow got instances(loading screen) several zones(loading screens), maybe your memories betrayed you... but why at hell everyone reference WoW for things, it didnt have, or was not in particular any good. ( i heared references about open world pvp from wow, and this is as ridiculus as this reference)
But to the topic, yeah, i would like to see a real open world mmo, with Dungeons(without loading screen), where you just go into the underworld(i can remember one game, dont know if it was either a mmo or a singleplayer rpg, where there was no loading screen for dungeons).
But on the other side, because i know about the technical difficulties and trade-off, unavoidable lagging from time to time, i dont know if i would want it in a competive area.. it just sucks if you are in a fight, and will be freezed to complete inability to act because of said lag. But on the other side, the world feel much more immersiv, and well.. as one world, and not so much as just another level map.
Vanguard is going F2P this summer. Doesn't get any more open and seamless than that. Even the dungeons and raids are non-instanced.
I never played Vanguard.. were there loading screens for dungeons. Because in a lot of games, dungeons were not instanced, but you neverthelss got a loading screen, as usually for cities(DAoC as example).
Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.
Lol. I really thought about the early real open world mmos.. but WoW? Wow got instances(loading screen) several zones(loading screens), maybe your memories betrayed you... but why at hell everyone reference WoW for things, it didnt have, or was not in particular any good.
The poster you quoted was talking specifically about things LIKE Inns and zones, and he is correct. There are no loading screens for entering an Inn or a shop, and you can walk/run/fly/ride from one end of a continent to the other without instancing.
Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?
Lineage 2 still has the best I have seen. Just recently went back and started over from scratch. Its a grind type game so if you into those try it.
Well.. maybe my memories betray me here, but if i remember right, you got a loading screen for any city/dungeon, it wasnt really any different as the most mmorpg at this time, and not really better or even outstanding. But hell, it is a long time ago i played that.. and i am not 100% sure of it.
Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.
Lol. I really thought about the early real open world mmos.. but WoW? Wow got instances(loading screen) several zones(loading screens), maybe your memories betrayed you... but why at hell everyone reference WoW for things, it didnt have, or was not in particular any good.
The poster you quoted was talking specifically about things LIKE Inns and zones, and he is correct. There are no loading screens for entering an Inn or a shop, and you can walk/run/fly/ride from one end of a continent to the other without instancing.
Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?
Eastern plaguelands? WoW was zoned, both continents, eastern plaguelands and a few other zones within the two contintents, where you got a loading screen. Inns and Taverns? Hmm.. i dont know one game with a loading screen for Inns and Taverns.. but though, never player SWTOR or AoC, which were both heavily plagued from loading screens as i heard of.
Vanguard is going F2P this summer. Doesn't get any more open and seamless than that. Even the dungeons and raids are non-instanced.
I never played Vanguard.. were there loading screens for dungeons. Because in a lot of games, dungeons were not instanced, but you neverthelss got a loading screen, as usually for cities(DAoC as example).
Vanguard doesnt have ANY instanced dungeons. They are all open world dungeons where multiple groups can run around in. And there are tonnes of them, most players have never even been to them all. As a consequence the respawns can be a bit brutal, so dont expect any quick dungeon runs and wipes can be pretty demoralising as you have to start back at the entrance.
Comments
I believe perfect world has no loading (other than instances?) between zones, and you could basically fly/walk from one end of the map to another. It does have instances though, and its a bit (lot?) on pay2win side, just thought i could mention it.
and theres of course ... Tibia!
That one is a ... bit .. .old, just some 15 years or so, not a biggie tho. Vanguard is open world but atm its pretty dead, at least til it goes f2p route, but even then not sure how many people will stick with it, if $oe uses their 'more of a trial than f2p' model for this one too.
immersion wise, no instances mmo can get even close to open world games, but as those take much more resources/time to develop, we end up with 99% of games being instanced to no end, some even to that extend that it feels like you are playing one of moba games
I don't see it being an issue for me, as long as the MMO is good and an enjoyable game, FFXI wasnt seamless and was rather a good MMO imo. Yet WoW even though it felt seamless didnt do anything for me and felt FFXI was a superior product to WoW.
Tibia is scary, insane death penalty and my character is forever stuck down a hole which is the only reason I stopped playing.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Than go an play such a game... problem solved?
No point in playing games that aren't your kind of games.
haha yea, and mind you i used to play it back in dial up days, where one wrong phone call could kill you. quite literally
i got used to it (death penalty, not dial up connection 
) but what killed it for me was bots/hotkeys system that got introduced a couple of years ago. It used to be fun little game where skill really did matter a lot, and it was fun even with their servers going down from time to time and you losing a couple of days of progression :P
what i also miss is tibia's quest system. In new gen mmos quests are just a task, which you end up hating and they feel like a chore. Now whenever i see some 'new' game advertising as 'awesome game with over 2,800 quests' it makes me cry a bit
Yes and out of those 2,800 you get to kill 10-20 differently looking mobs 2,600 times, heh.
Tibia quests were actually interesting, required coordination, exploration and a bit of brain too. Ah and there was not a single quest to kill 10 rats, god i love that game
There have been other old games as well, Like Lineage...
Vanguard is the most modern of then though. The real problem is that it is really hard to mix good graphics and seamless world.
But the next gen harddrives (after SSDs) will be a combination of ram and hd, that will solve the problem for good. Then you can suddenly have the entire game in memory making loading screens obsolete. It is a few years away still though even if Samsung have a working cell phone memory with the technology.
I'm not sure that's the reason, for me Vanguard's graphics are good and they manage without loading screens, instances and zones just fine.
I believe that for the current AAA themeparks a seamless world has just no design priority. They have loads of cutscenes and instances for "structured" gameplay, thus the whole game world is more a set of mini-maps than a world anyway. Thus they trow in more of that for the "cineastic" experience.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
What would be the point of trying a game that I have to firce myself to reach a low level before I allow myself to leave?
2 games that I thought had the best "I m living in a world" feel, were DAOC and FFXI. They had loading screens, but I just didn t notice them. To me, loading screens are ok, if they re not all the time. DAOC and FFXI had such huge zones, it just didn t feel like I was loading all the time.
Yeah, but they had a nightmare getting the code right. I said it was hard, not impossible. And even VG have some shortcuts as you see when you look on a treetop, they focused the good graphics on the stuff they thought most important.
It is true that a lot of the instances are made to make the game more structured and cinmatic but those games often have zooning in the "open" world as well.
[quote]
[i]Originally posted by Sarariel[/i]
[b]Does anyone else miss that?[/b]
[b]Like the old WoW.. No loading screens for the inn's or zone changes. Just a change of weather and music.[/b]
[/quote]
Play TERA
In my opinion, instancing breaks the immersion factor in MMOs...that's why I never cared much for Guild Wars or Vindictus or other heavily instanced games. When WoW came up with the Dungeon Finder, that really hurt the game for me.
In my opinion, the pendulum has swung away from a single world to instancing, maybe because it's easier for servers to handle.
Yes I miss this much more.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
I miss that too, badly. That's the one feature that makes or breaks a virtual world for me.
Yeah, it's amazing how much it adds to the world. It's not part of the gameplay but makes the game so much better and immersive.
I recall TERA selling with "open seamless world, no loading screens" kind of phrase in its website. That actually got my interest up for that game looking at all these other new mmorpgs coming and each of them have loading screens like TSW and GW2 (TOR having load screen horror house, where ever you turn there's a loading screen).
Then again, TSW and GW2 seems like better games gameplay wise to me, TERA has nice looking combat but TSW with the fresh setting and interesting char building with other nice things like investigation and stuff past kill 10 rats, GW2 with dynamic events and other potentially interesting things. TERA might be seamless but it's just hack'n'slash till the world ends, afaik there's nothing else to do in the world than repeat the same old kill 10 pigs quest untill you realize you've seen all there is to the game... The combat seems fun but will it alone keep my interest up? I highly doubt /shrug.
Tell that to Average Joe who wants "up-to-date graphics" and who doesn't want to upgrade his rig.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Lol. I really thought about the early real open world mmos.. but WoW? Wow got instances(loading screen) several zones(loading screens), maybe your memories betrayed you... but why at hell everyone reference WoW for things, it didnt have, or was not in particular any good. ( i heared references about open world pvp from wow, and this is as ridiculus as this reference)
But to the topic, yeah, i would like to see a real open world mmo, with Dungeons(without loading screen), where you just go into the underworld(i can remember one game, dont know if it was either a mmo or a singleplayer rpg, where there was no loading screen for dungeons).
But on the other side, because i know about the technical difficulties and trade-off, unavoidable lagging from time to time, i dont know if i would want it in a competive area.. it just sucks if you are in a fight, and will be freezed to complete inability to act because of said lag. But on the other side, the world feel much more immersiv, and well.. as one world, and not so much as just another level map.
I never played Vanguard.. were there loading screens for dungeons. Because in a lot of games, dungeons were not instanced, but you neverthelss got a loading screen, as usually for cities(DAoC as example).
Lineage 2 still has the best I have seen. Just recently went back and started over from scratch. Its a grind type game so if you into those try it.
The poster you quoted was talking specifically about things LIKE Inns and zones, and he is correct. There are no loading screens for entering an Inn or a shop, and you can walk/run/fly/ride from one end of a continent to the other without instancing.
Regarding dungeons - honestly, I can't see how non-instanced dungeons could work. Wouldn't there be piles of players/parties standing around waiting for the boss to spawn, everyone's fingers on the targetting key so their group would be the first to tag him?
Well.. maybe my memories betray me here, but if i remember right, you got a loading screen for any city/dungeon, it wasnt really any different as the most mmorpg at this time, and not really better or even outstanding. But hell, it is a long time ago i played that.. and i am not 100% sure of it.
Eastern plaguelands? WoW was zoned, both continents, eastern plaguelands and a few other zones within the two contintents, where you got a loading screen. Inns and Taverns? Hmm.. i dont know one game with a loading screen for Inns and Taverns.. but though, never player SWTOR or AoC, which were both heavily plagued from loading screens as i heard of.
Darkfall is by far the best when it comes to a pure open world.
Role-playing, strategy, and shooter action in a MMOG
The largest handcrafted online world of its kind.
Over 10 thousand concurrent players per game world.
The largest MMORPG battles ever - involving thousands.
Ultimate PvP action, the #1 choice of top players and clans.
Seamless, zoneless, non-instanced world. No invisible walls.
No safe zones. Full loot. PvP everywhere with accountability.
No more leveling. Improve the skills you use.
Fight on mounts, ships, man cannons and vehicles.
Siege and conquer cities, build and protect your own.
Craft any item in the world and put your name on it.
Vanguard doesnt have ANY instanced dungeons. They are all open world dungeons where multiple groups can run around in. And there are tonnes of them, most players have never even been to them all. As a consequence the respawns can be a bit brutal, so dont expect any quick dungeon runs and wipes can be pretty demoralising as you have to start back at the entrance.