I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
This keeps coming across my mind. I want logical, non flaming answers. With the way Guild Wars 2 is built, not being gear based, not having a strong gold influence, what do you consider "winning" at it. Does winning at a game like GW 2 mean that others are losing?
I think of this question because itssomething we joke about in tabletop dungeons and dragons. I run across a new player oncee a year who builds this broken character, and we have to explain how he's not playing against the other people but with them, so it doesnt matter how powerful his character is, it has to be able to work well with others. So long as everyone has a chance to shine in dungeons and dragons, all players are considered winning. I assumed this to be the case in guild wars 2.
IN other mmos i have played it was easy to see winning, especially the real play to win games. Runes of magic i won when i had tons of defense for my armor. In Rift when i reached level 50 and had tier 3 armor. But I don'[t see the winning aspect of GW2.
Interesting you brought up DnD. I don't really play it, but the philosophy sounds very much like GW2's.
'Winning' in this game is basically a combination of things.
1) Being part of the top team in structured PvP (or at least up there on the bracket)
2) Helping ensure your server dominates in WvW
3) Being able to clear all the hardest PvE content (explorable dungeons).
4) Unlocking everything in the game (achievements, skills, etc.)
Of course, all of this really just revolves around the idea that this game is built to be 'fun'. For some, feeling like you are 'winning' is the only real fun in an MMO. For others, there's a lot more to it than that. Screwing around, exploration, etc. are all part of the enjoyment of the game.
However, there is a very good feeling when you spend time working on a build for your character and find out that it absolutely owns in PvP. Couple that with the understanding that it was your own skill that got you the win and not your gear, and it's a very good feeling indeed.
Well, how do you win GW2 you ask? ill tell you, the same way u win D&D, not losing.
Easy as that, this game is desigend the way all games should be, fun and made to play, there is no point in wining because that means the game is finished and there is nothing more to do, there are games like LoL or SC (1, or 2 i dont care) were you play matchs, win or lose you can play more, so there is no "wining the game" just the match, the game never ends, on the other hand there are games like Skyrim or Deus Ex were you WIN, and once you win there is not much more to do but was the journey from the begining to the end wich made it good.
So here GW2 cant be won, you can finish the personal history, do all dinamic events, explore all the world, get all the armors and weapons, etc but even if thats the case there is also pvp and WvW wich have no end, that plus the making of alts (diferent playstiles and historys) and playing expansions (wich may come soon or later) makes the game able to be played for years to come.
In short: if you play this game to win it, you are making it wrong.
I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
I really, really hope you aren't trying to segway this into yet another cash shop thread. There are way too many of those already, and there's a reason most of them got locked. That's an entirely separate debate, and if you want to engage in that discussion there are threads specifically for it.
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
I personally am going to make gold, to buy gems to kill pandas in WoW with. I win!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
My reason for asking this is to figure out the thinking that makes someone say "this is pay to win". With so many pages of why this game is pay to win, I want to know what is winning, from both sides, what will happen to make u "win" the game.
You are right. There is no way to "win" and little advantage to be had through gear or any other in game asset. People claiming that anything in the game is "Pay to Win" or even "Play to Win" are either misinformed or just being inflamatory, with no reguard for the facts. I guess for some people, their MMO being superior is "winning" and if a game comes along to challenge their assumptions that their game is "the best", they feel a need to attack the game that challenges their beliefs and assumptions.
I know this might be cliche.. Idk if anyone else said it.. but to answer your question is like trying to answer the question of life. Instead my answer to you would be something like a rhetorical question;
How do you win life?
MMo's are pretty much the same. They can rig the game to have a "winner" but that doesn't really fit in a mmorpg setting because it tries to mirror our world through fantasy.
I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
My reason for asking this is to figure out the thinking that makes someone say "this is pay to win". With so many pages of why this game is pay to win, I want to know what is winning, from both sides, what will happen to make u "win" the game.
You are right. There is no way to "win" and little advantage to be had through gear or any other in game asset. People claiming that anything in the game is "Pay to Win" or even "Play to Win" are either misinformed or just being inflamatory, with no reguard for the facts. I guess for some people, their MMO being superior is "winning" and if a game comes along to challenge their assumptions that their game is "the best", they feel a need to attack the game that challenges their beliefs and assumptions.
There are two sides to every coin. I also see the constant 'GW2 is better than your game' comments irritating people because what is better is after all matter of taste and prespective. You can not clap with one hand.
This keeps coming across my mind. I want logical, non flaming answers. With the way Guild Wars 2 is built, not being gear based, not having a strong gold influence, what do you consider "winning" at it. Does winning at a game like GW 2 mean that others are losing?
I think of this question because itssomething we joke about in tabletop dungeons and dragons. I run across a new player oncee a year who builds this broken character, and we have to explain how he's not playing against the other people but with them, so it doesnt matter how powerful his character is, it has to be able to work well with others. So long as everyone has a chance to shine in dungeons and dragons, all players are considered winning. I assumed this to be the case in guild wars 2.
IN other mmos i have played it was easy to see winning, especially the real play to win games. Runes of magic i won when i had tons of defense for my armor. In Rift when i reached level 50 and had tier 3 armor. But I don'[t see the winning aspect of GW2.
oh good lord, i'm not flaming but it's one of those dumb questions my roommate asks me off and on when he wants to annoy me and he knows darn well what mmo's are like. There is not a game over in mmo's end-game is just a metaphor it never ends, so no there is no winning a game. Even when they bring out a final boss of a raid set of bosses it's never really the final boss. Just look at Cata, they are now coming out with yet ANOTHER expansion even tho they've really done everything in the WoW lexicon of lore in the game already now they are bringing out a joke that was in WWC 3 and making it a reality to keep the game going.
Saying there's an end to mmo's is like saying there's an end to the car industry, they will just keep putting out more cars forever and there won't ever be the last car.
Now if you are talking about the "time investment reward system" that's not in here because like most, Anet developers are tired of the whole elitest jerk thing so if you are one of those who:
likes to gank people after farming gear from pvp deaths
runs raids not for progression but to get legendary gear so you're friends can drool at you
does 500 rep dailies to get a mount that's impossible to farm without no life and no job
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
This keeps coming across my mind. I want logical, non flaming answers. With the way Guild Wars 2 is built, not being gear based, not having a strong gold influence, what do you consider "winning" at it. Does winning at a game like GW 2 mean that others are losing?
Winning is having fun.
It's not a traditional "gear grind" or "achievement grind" where you are slowly conditioned into deriving pleasure from being rewarded for certain behaviours, then they make the rewards harder and harder to get and you just keep pushing and grinding the same behaviours repeatedly, often forgetting whatever rewards conditioned you into this behaviour in the start, and not considering you are not having any fun at all.
GW2 offers single buy freedom as opposed to subscriber based slavery.
There is no victory condition for MMOs, good ones at least, so you can't win them. But I suppose it's possible to achieve a state of win, if you can look back on the last few months of playing and wonder where all the time went.
In the first game after the missions, the goal for many was to get the most EXPENSIVE armor you could get in the game, which was FOW armor and 15k armor. The price was so high on it because the obsidian and ecto was hard to get and they looked so goood. So to answer your question, buy gems with money in GW2 and buy the good looking sets off the cash shop or in the game.
PvP - Win at pvp, win at WvW by buying gems and buying siege equipment for your guild or your server.
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
Good clarification. May I add that anyone with a brain who has followed GW2's dev blogs would guess that ANet simply don't want to screw their game. Giving access to top tier gear with the cash shop would simply be suicide. Every decent game designer knows that. And I don't think ANet does want to screw their 5 years long effort with a goddamn shop.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
My reason for asking this is to figure out the thinking that makes someone say "this is pay to win". With so many pages of why this game is pay to win, I want to know what is winning, from both sides, what will happen to make u "win" the game.
You are right. There is no way to "win" and little advantage to be had through gear or any other in game asset. People claiming that anything in the game is "Pay to Win" or even "Play to Win" are either misinformed or just being inflamatory, with no reguard for the facts. I guess for some people, their MMO being superior is "winning" and if a game comes along to challenge their assumptions that their game is "the best", they feel a need to attack the game that challenges their beliefs and assumptions.
There are two sides to every coin. I also see the constant 'GW2 is better than your game' comments irritating people because what is better is after all matter of taste and prespective. You can not clap with one hand.
I can extoll the virtues of a game and applaud the innovations it brings to the genre, with out attacking other games. Nor do I feel any need to attack other games that may, or may not, offer their own innovations. The Secret World looks interesting to me. My current focus on GW2 has prevented me from digging too deep on that title, but I'm not going to go attack it because it's success would some how detract from GW2. I gave Tera a shot in beta, didn't care for it, shared a couple posts on what I didn't like, acknowledged that there are things in it others will like and moved on. It is possible to be a proponent of a game and even seek to challenge misinformation, with out it becoming "my game vs. your game".
I don't claim that the GW2 community is free from such a mentality, people are people, but that doesn't justify others matching "idiocy" with "idiocy".
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
Good clarification. May I add that anyone with a brain who has followed GW2's dev blogs would guess that ANet simply don't want to screw their game. Giving access to top tier gear with the cash shop would simply be suicide. Every decent game designer knows that. And I don't think ANet does want to screw their 5 years long effort with a goddamn shop.
Let us say we don't have brain where is official info about this? its been a long time since i have stoped believing the fans and rather read what is official statement by the company. So if you got links please don't be shy to share. I would like to know what kind of higher quality items comapred to cash shop shop a player can get just by playing the game.
In the first game after the missions, the goal for many was to get the most EXPENSIVE armor you could get in the game, which was FOW armor and 15k armor. The price was so high on it because the obsidian and ecto was hard to get and they looked so goood. So to answer your question, buy gems with money in GW2 and buy the good looking sets off the cash shop or in the game.
PvP - Win at pvp, win at WvW by buying gems and buying siege equipment for your guild or your server.
I've heard that dungeon sets, likely to be the most sought after sets in the game, are BoP and can't be traded. Also, if you want a piece, you must trade your tokens in to a vendor who only becomes available after you've completed the dungeon. Not true?
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
Good clarification. May I add that anyone with a brain who has followed GW2's dev blogs would guess that ANet simply don't want to screw their game. Giving access to top tier gear with the cash shop would simply be suicide. Every decent game designer knows that. And I don't think ANet does want to screw their 5 years long effort with a goddamn shop.
Let us say we don't have brain where is official info about this? its been a long time since i have stoped believing the fans and rather read what is official statement by the company. So if you got links please don't be shy to share. I would like to know what kind of higher quality items comapred to cash shop shop a player can get just by playing the game.
I just googled "Guild Wars 2 Cash Shop", and clicked on the 6th link :
I don't see any super duper top tier gear here. Maybe the "increase your chance to find rare items by 10% for 1 hour ... But never in the world could you match that chance per hour ratio against a dedicated player who just spends time simply exploring (unless you're incredibly rich). Also, common sense would tell that things like the "Mystic Key" will be obtainable ingame too.
(oh and by having a brain I just wanted to mean "having common sense", no offense intended)
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
As Kramer said, "You just blew my mind"! lol In that term winning is using the items in a cash shop to your own advantage over others.
So when I use the items I win?
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
Good clarification. May I add that anyone with a brain who has followed GW2's dev blogs would guess that ANet simply don't want to screw their game. Giving access to top tier gear with the cash shop would simply be suicide. Every decent game designer knows that. And I don't think ANet does want to screw their 5 years long effort with a goddamn shop.
Let us say we don't have brain where is official info about this? its been a long time since i have stoped believing the fans and rather read what is official statement by the company. So if you got links please don't be shy to share. I would like to know what kind of higher quality items comapred to cash shop shop a player can get just by playing the game.
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
I don't mean this to be a silly question, its seriously something I don't now. I keep reading people say Pay to win or buy to win. I need to know what is "winning". I feel there's some major disconnect between what I have read about GW2 and what others believe it is. If I can do something to win, it must mean that I can win. So I am asking, particuarlly from people who believe the game is play2win, what exactly is winning.
My reason for asking this is to figure out the thinking that makes someone say "this is pay to win". With so many pages of why this game is pay to win, I want to know what is winning, from both sides, what will happen to make u "win" the game.
Ho no, so my silly comment was actually what you was talking about in your OP post? *slap self with plank*.
Pay to win is just an other way to call free2play mmo. Mmo developed in a totally other manner than other rpg games. First they were very much so like rpg on computer. But some people just wanted games to play with and no problems. So they made games like rpg, death had little repercussion, you couldn't kill other player and stuff like that. That turned into winning level and winning better gear, because this became the center of those game like rpg. In 2k mmo became grind fest, where those 2 aspect was the center of those game, and pretty much all they have since all the old rpg aspect got wiped away (no more role to build your character, no more player communities in game, no more danger for you character, everything is perfectly cleaned to keep the easiet experience possible). Some people used this addictive aspect that was left (leveling and nice equipement) and made a commerce of it, they made free mmo, but you needed to buy cash shop items like xp potion to reach max level, have the best gear. Without those the leveling was so steep at the last level it was simply impossible to progress, it was like a wall and each death made you lost more xp than you gained, so xp pot was mandatory. So people began to say those are not free to play but pay to win. Thats how computer rpg turned into winning mess. Hope its clearer for you now.
edit, added few stuff to make it clearer hopefully.
Comments
So when I use the items I win?
Interesting you brought up DnD. I don't really play it, but the philosophy sounds very much like GW2's.
'Winning' in this game is basically a combination of things.
1) Being part of the top team in structured PvP (or at least up there on the bracket)
2) Helping ensure your server dominates in WvW
3) Being able to clear all the hardest PvE content (explorable dungeons).
4) Unlocking everything in the game (achievements, skills, etc.)
Of course, all of this really just revolves around the idea that this game is built to be 'fun'. For some, feeling like you are 'winning' is the only real fun in an MMO. For others, there's a lot more to it than that. Screwing around, exploration, etc. are all part of the enjoyment of the game.
However, there is a very good feeling when you spend time working on a build for your character and find out that it absolutely owns in PvP. Couple that with the understanding that it was your own skill that got you the win and not your gear, and it's a very good feeling indeed.
Well, how do you win GW2 you ask? ill tell you, the same way u win D&D, not losing.
Easy as that, this game is desigend the way all games should be, fun and made to play, there is no point in wining because that means the game is finished and there is nothing more to do, there are games like LoL or SC (1, or 2 i dont care) were you play matchs, win or lose you can play more, so there is no "wining the game" just the match, the game never ends, on the other hand there are games like Skyrim or Deus Ex were you WIN, and once you win there is not much more to do but was the journey from the begining to the end wich made it good.
So here GW2 cant be won, you can finish the personal history, do all dinamic events, explore all the world, get all the armors and weapons, etc but even if thats the case there is also pvp and WvW wich have no end, that plus the making of alts (diferent playstiles and historys) and playing expansions (wich may come soon or later) makes the game able to be played for years to come.
In short: if you play this game to win it, you are making it wrong.
I really, really hope you aren't trying to segway this into yet another cash shop thread. There are way too many of those already, and there's a reason most of them got locked. That's an entirely separate debate, and if you want to engage in that discussion there are threads specifically for it.
Ingame, but they're just unimportant / starter stuff. If you really enjoy the game, you better not buy anything in the cash shop, and try to spend some time gathering equivalent shiny stuff by exploration. Plus, this time spent ingame will also bring you higher quality items than cash shop ones, on top of that.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I personally am going to make gold, to buy gems to kill pandas in WoW with. I win!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Another thread about P2W. How boring.
And you know that how? is that official from Anet? can i read about it?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor#Rare_armor
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
You are right. There is no way to "win" and little advantage to be had through gear or any other in game asset. People claiming that anything in the game is "Pay to Win" or even "Play to Win" are either misinformed or just being inflamatory, with no reguard for the facts. I guess for some people, their MMO being superior is "winning" and if a game comes along to challenge their assumptions that their game is "the best", they feel a need to attack the game that challenges their beliefs and assumptions.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I know this might be cliche.. Idk if anyone else said it.. but to answer your question is like trying to answer the question of life. Instead my answer to you would be something like a rhetorical question;
How do you win life?
MMo's are pretty much the same. They can rig the game to have a "winner" but that doesn't really fit in a mmorpg setting because it tries to mirror our world through fantasy.
Correct me if im wrong..
There are two sides to every coin. I also see the constant 'GW2 is better than your game' comments irritating people because what is better is after all matter of taste and prespective. You can not clap with one hand.
HAHAHAHA
April Fools...Right?
oh good lord, i'm not flaming but it's one of those dumb questions my roommate asks me off and on when he wants to annoy me and he knows darn well what mmo's are like. There is not a game over in mmo's end-game is just a metaphor it never ends, so no there is no winning a game. Even when they bring out a final boss of a raid set of bosses it's never really the final boss. Just look at Cata, they are now coming out with yet ANOTHER expansion even tho they've really done everything in the WoW lexicon of lore in the game already now they are bringing out a joke that was in WWC 3 and making it a reality to keep the game going.
Saying there's an end to mmo's is like saying there's an end to the car industry, they will just keep putting out more cars forever and there won't ever be the last car.
Now if you are talking about the "time investment reward system" that's not in here because like most, Anet developers are tired of the whole elitest jerk thing so if you are one of those who:
likes to gank people after farming gear from pvp deaths
runs raids not for progression but to get legendary gear so you're friends can drool at you
does 500 rep dailies to get a mount that's impossible to farm without no life and no job
this game is not for you.
Cash shop "armors" don't have stats. They are purchased for the look they offer and players will use transmutation stones to combine the desired look with the stats of an item with the desired stats.
There are rarity tiers for gear, but the power disparity is relatively minor. An item may be rare for it's appearance, not just it's stats. I've also heard that Dungeon Rewards Gear, in addition to rare cosmetics, also may offer more focused stats than most other gear, while the overall power level will be the same as rares aquired elsewhere. This would have more appeal to some players than others.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Winning is having fun.
It's not a traditional "gear grind" or "achievement grind" where you are slowly conditioned into deriving pleasure from being rewarded for certain behaviours, then they make the rewards harder and harder to get and you just keep pushing and grinding the same behaviours repeatedly, often forgetting whatever rewards conditioned you into this behaviour in the start, and not considering you are not having any fun at all.
GW2 offers single buy freedom as opposed to subscriber based slavery.
There is no victory condition for MMOs, good ones at least, so you can't win them. But I suppose it's possible to achieve a state of win, if you can look back on the last few months of playing and wonder where all the time went.
In the first game after the missions, the goal for many was to get the most EXPENSIVE armor you could get in the game, which was FOW armor and 15k armor. The price was so high on it because the obsidian and ecto was hard to get and they looked so goood. So to answer your question, buy gems with money in GW2 and buy the good looking sets off the cash shop or in the game.
PvP - Win at pvp, win at WvW by buying gems and buying siege equipment for your guild or your server.
Good clarification. May I add that anyone with a brain who has followed GW2's dev blogs would guess that ANet simply don't want to screw their game. Giving access to top tier gear with the cash shop would simply be suicide. Every decent game designer knows that. And I don't think ANet does want to screw their 5 years long effort with a goddamn shop.
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I can extoll the virtues of a game and applaud the innovations it brings to the genre, with out attacking other games. Nor do I feel any need to attack other games that may, or may not, offer their own innovations. The Secret World looks interesting to me. My current focus on GW2 has prevented me from digging too deep on that title, but I'm not going to go attack it because it's success would some how detract from GW2. I gave Tera a shot in beta, didn't care for it, shared a couple posts on what I didn't like, acknowledged that there are things in it others will like and moved on. It is possible to be a proponent of a game and even seek to challenge misinformation, with out it becoming "my game vs. your game".
I don't claim that the GW2 community is free from such a mentality, people are people, but that doesn't justify others matching "idiocy" with "idiocy".
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Let us say we don't have brain where is official info about this? its been a long time since i have stoped believing the fans and rather read what is official statement by the company. So if you got links please don't be shy to share. I would like to know what kind of higher quality items comapred to cash shop shop a player can get just by playing the game.
I've heard that dungeon sets, likely to be the most sought after sets in the game, are BoP and can't be traded. Also, if you want a piece, you must trade your tokens in to a vendor who only becomes available after you've completed the dungeon. Not true?
I just googled "Guild Wars 2 Cash Shop", and clicked on the 6th link :
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/cash-shop-items-leak-t32319.html
I don't see any super duper top tier gear here. Maybe the "increase your chance to find rare items by 10% for 1 hour ... But never in the world could you match that chance per hour ratio against a dedicated player who just spends time simply exploring (unless you're incredibly rich). Also, common sense would tell that things like the "Mystic Key" will be obtainable ingame too.
(oh and by having a brain I just wanted to mean "having common sense", no offense intended)
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http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2
Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Ho no, so my silly comment was actually what you was talking about in your OP post? *slap self with plank*.
Pay to win is just an other way to call free2play mmo. Mmo developed in a totally other manner than other rpg games. First they were very much so like rpg on computer. But some people just wanted games to play with and no problems. So they made games like rpg, death had little repercussion, you couldn't kill other player and stuff like that. That turned into winning level and winning better gear, because this became the center of those game like rpg. In 2k mmo became grind fest, where those 2 aspect was the center of those game, and pretty much all they have since all the old rpg aspect got wiped away (no more role to build your character, no more player communities in game, no more danger for you character, everything is perfectly cleaned to keep the easiet experience possible). Some people used this addictive aspect that was left (leveling and nice equipement) and made a commerce of it, they made free mmo, but you needed to buy cash shop items like xp potion to reach max level, have the best gear. Without those the leveling was so steep at the last level it was simply impossible to progress, it was like a wall and each death made you lost more xp than you gained, so xp pot was mandatory. So people began to say those are not free to play but pay to win. Thats how computer rpg turned into winning mess. Hope its clearer for you now.
edit, added few stuff to make it clearer hopefully.