I actually think underpopulation is going to be the big issue. Not for the entirety of the game, just for WvWvW. People say otherwise, but open-pvp is not a draw for a majority of gamers for the long haul. I worry that WvWvW will have its draw for only so long before people actually shift their focus to structured pvp and PvE mainly. In GW1, there was no open PvP, but factions PvP was about as close to it as you get; large-scale battle between groups of people. It's been all but empty for the longest time, it's only the heavily structured PvP that retains its draw for people and even that is only for farming of faction for keys. There's a quest that involves pvp in the Jade Sea, my main has had it in their list for literally years because there's never enough people queing up to do it.
WvWvW is going to be really popular at first, but I'm not sure it will have lasting power, particularly in the West. Non-PvPers will shy away when they start getting ganked (and yes, you can gank, don't think just because you're boosted to 80 that you can't get your ass utterly devoured by someone who truly is 80), the competetive PvPers will flock to structured as they did in GW1, the PvE'ers naturally won't give a damn about it, and the rest will realize they're only playing with themselves after a while, lose interest, and run back to EVE. I ~sincerely~ hope this is not the case, but this has been the trend in every other mmo for quite some time and I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if Anet managed to change that.
Depends on how they incentivize it and how structured pvp is incentivized.
If its too skewed in the favor of structured pvp it will end up like you describe (essentially like in WAR or in many other games offering both forms) and it could be a very serious threat to WvW.
I hope they will add little things like a personal war journal, showing in which succesful keep sieges and defenses as well as WvW wins and losses you participated, the amount of supplies you gained and destroyed and a kill tally, possibly coupled to a rank or title system, so there will be incentive to become a WvW verteran and feel proud about it.
This could also be linked to a ranked reward system with (non-overpowered) rewards like uniforms, guild banners, golden epaulets, even weapons with a unique look, etc.
If there are personal incentives like that for players, and when structured pvp isn't the obvious highway to get appealing pvp rewards, it might become a lasting success.
All I know is that when I have the choice I'd rather avoid structured pvp alltogether since its a much more artificial, mini game like form of pvp and not very true to the "mm" part of mmorpg, nor to the "rpg" bit.
The problem might be in the player cap anyway: if they make WvW too rewarding, there might be frequent or long queues and people will complain about that; make it not rewarding enough and people will flock to structured pvp or other content.
So yeah, it's a careful balancing act. A bit like blindfolded juggling with unboiled eggs. The blindfold will be removed after launch but I wonder if they eggs will still be in the air.
Overdone and huge that it will be near impossible to see what's going on. As a result, this hinders the melee weapons causing ranged weapons to be the only viable approach to WvWvW. Of course this is a bit of an exagerration but it will be true to a certain extent. Ranged will most likely dominate or be the most popular choice.
Haha. Is the guy in the video serious? "Auto-Attack is a really cool feature! I can get up, go check on my kid, and my character continues to do damage." Oh wow. Haven't seen that feature in an MMO in the past 12 years....
And when you get a guy to do a video on a game, at least have the requirement that he knows something about what he's playing.
Outside of CoH and EQ2 with their refuse XP toggle no other MMO can boast that.
Rift also has a toggle to turn XP off.
CoH goes significantly beyond that with mentoring and sidekicking (allowing any level to play with any level) and Ouroboros allowing you to temporarily delevel to play any content you may have missed (CoH has too much content - it is impossible to do it all without out-leveling it).
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
Outside of CoH and EQ2 with their refuse XP toggle no other MMO can boast that.
Rift also has a toggle to turn XP off.
CoH goes significantly beyond that with mentoring and sidekicking (allowing any level to play with any level) and Ouroboros allowing you to temporarily delevel to play any content you may have missed (CoH has too much content - it is impossible to do it all without out-leveling it).
Dark Age of Camelot had the feature 6 + years ago as well. Check your facts before making false claims Greyed.
WvW is not RVR, you are not playing against a tribe/race/monsters that you only see in open world pvp zones. You will fight norse guys just like you who are teamed up with Chars etc.
Thats nothing like the feeling of defeating Hibernians who you only see when fighting them in contested regions, or raising your flag in a living landscape which is adjecent to your own realm.
Compare that to beating a server, there is no personnal connection, its not in the same league.
Best comment so far in this thread. I registered here so I could QFT
I will be trying this game but I have no expectations that the WvW will compare in excitement or feeling of accomplishment and immersion that the DAOC Frontiers gave me
WvW is not RVR, you are not playing against a tribe/race/monsters that you only see in open world pvp zones. You will fight norse guys just like you who are teamed up with Chars etc.
Thats nothing like the feeling of defeating Hibernians who you only see when fighting them in contested regions, or raising your flag in a living landscape which is adjecent to your own realm.
Compare that to beating a server, there is no personnal connection, its not in the same league.
Best comment so far in this thread. I registered here so I could QFT
I will be trying this game but I have no expectations that the WvW will compare in excitement or feeling of accomplishment and immersion that the DAOC Frontiers gave me
- Myg
Nimue !
Very true, pvp was so immersive in DAOC because you are at war with people on your own server. Makes it more personal. GW2 will just be like any other game with Battlegrounds.
WvW is not RVR, you are not playing against a tribe/race/monsters that you only see in open world pvp zones. You will fight norse guys just like you who are teamed up with Chars etc.
Thats nothing like the feeling of defeating Hibernians who you only see when fighting them in contested regions, or raising your flag in a living landscape which is adjecent to your own realm.
Compare that to beating a server, there is no personnal connection, its not in the same league.
Best comment so far in this thread. I registered here so I could QFT
I will be trying this game but I have no expectations that the WvW will compare in excitement or feeling of accomplishment and immersion that the DAOC Frontiers gave me
- Myg
Nimue !
Very true, pvp was so immersive in DAOC because you are at war with people on your own server. Makes it more personal. GW2 will just be like any other game with Battlegrounds.
you want to fight the same peeps over and over ? or you want a new challenge every 2 weeks ? i know what i would go for...
WvWvW is going to be really popular at first, but I'm not sure it will have lasting power, particularly in the West. Non-PvPers will shy away when they start getting ganked (and yes, you can gank, don't think just because you're boosted to 80 that you can't get your ass utterly devoured by someone who truly is 80), the competetive PvPers will flock to structured as they did in GW1, the PvE'ers naturally won't give a damn about it, and the rest will realize they're only playing with themselves after a while, lose interest, and run back to EVE.
No, after two weeks, your server will achieve the worst rank of the 3 servers, your server will be put at the bottom of the pile with bad servers as well (with fewer organised PvPers) and this until you reach a matchup with server roughly your level.
From then on, you will roughly have a fair fight with other servers and people will just pop back into the WvW zone - maybe not massively, but mechanically you should end up having a (roughly) fair fight after a months or two.
Comments
Depends on how they incentivize it and how structured pvp is incentivized.
If its too skewed in the favor of structured pvp it will end up like you describe (essentially like in WAR or in many other games offering both forms) and it could be a very serious threat to WvW.
I hope they will add little things like a personal war journal, showing in which succesful keep sieges and defenses as well as WvW wins and losses you participated, the amount of supplies you gained and destroyed and a kill tally, possibly coupled to a rank or title system, so there will be incentive to become a WvW verteran and feel proud about it.
This could also be linked to a ranked reward system with (non-overpowered) rewards like uniforms, guild banners, golden epaulets, even weapons with a unique look, etc.
If there are personal incentives like that for players, and when structured pvp isn't the obvious highway to get appealing pvp rewards, it might become a lasting success.
All I know is that when I have the choice I'd rather avoid structured pvp alltogether since its a much more artificial, mini game like form of pvp and not very true to the "mm" part of mmorpg, nor to the "rpg" bit.
The problem might be in the player cap anyway: if they make WvW too rewarding, there might be frequent or long queues and people will complain about that; make it not rewarding enough and people will flock to structured pvp or other content.
So yeah, it's a careful balancing act. A bit like blindfolded juggling with unboiled eggs. The blindfold will be removed after launch but I wonder if they eggs will still be in the air.
My brand new bloggity blog.
RELEASE THE DAMN GAME ALREADY.
You forgot one downside:
Particle Effects
Overdone and huge that it will be near impossible to see what's going on. As a result, this hinders the melee weapons causing ranged weapons to be the only viable approach to WvWvW. Of course this is a bit of an exagerration but it will be true to a certain extent. Ranged will most likely dominate or be the most popular choice.
Haha. Is the guy in the video serious? "Auto-Attack is a really cool feature! I can get up, go check on my kid, and my character continues to do damage." Oh wow. Haven't seen that feature in an MMO in the past 12 years....
And when you get a guy to do a video on a game, at least have the requirement that he knows something about what he's playing.
Rift also has a toggle to turn XP off.
CoH goes significantly beyond that with mentoring and sidekicking (allowing any level to play with any level) and Ouroboros allowing you to temporarily delevel to play any content you may have missed (CoH has too much content - it is impossible to do it all without out-leveling it).
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
Dark Age of Camelot had the feature 6 + years ago as well. Check your facts before making false claims Greyed.
Best comment so far in this thread. I registered here so I could QFT
I will be trying this game but I have no expectations that the WvW will compare in excitement or feeling of accomplishment and immersion that the DAOC Frontiers gave me
- Myg
Nimue !
Very true, pvp was so immersive in DAOC because you are at war with people on your own server. Makes it more personal. GW2 will just be like any other game with Battlegrounds.
you want to fight the same peeps over and over ? or you want a new challenge every 2 weeks ? i know what i would go for...
No, after two weeks, your server will achieve the worst rank of the 3 servers, your server will be put at the bottom of the pile with bad servers as well (with fewer organised PvPers) and this until you reach a matchup with server roughly your level.
From then on, you will roughly have a fair fight with other servers and people will just pop back into the WvW zone - maybe not massively, but mechanically you should end up having a (roughly) fair fight after a months or two.