Because I and other people don't give a damn about quest. I never read them, I rather have good combat system and solid pvp and end game than a game with the best storyline but once you done with it in 2 weeks there i nothing left to fucking do.
Accurate to some extent and sort of what i am looking for,but repeating end game content over and over is not the answer unless you are looking for VERY shallow gaming.At least quests vary somewhat along the way,repeating content never flies with me.
My idea is to give us a COMPLETE game,imagine that expecting a complete game.I want a good combat system,great storyline,great player developement [not cusomization,there is a difference].I want to see some very wel ldone quests,i would rather have 200 great oens than 2000 boring simple ones.
IMO every game except one has failed in it's design from day1,they leave you with nothing but end game becuase you hit max level and your playuer is done,IMO why even bother with end game,since yoru player is in reality done?Hence FFXI's non stop player development was the best design ever,you were not tied to one class,which makes sense even in the real world.
IMO it is not just to down grade TERA becuase it doesn't meet that clone EQ/Wow standards of linear questing for your loot and xp.That design does NOT need to happen,example as mentioned FFXI did not need that shallow type game play to create fun and satisfaction.
I have yet to try TERA and i am looking forward to trying it,If they put questing on the back shelf i am happy just as long as the combat structure and player development is solid.Questing is so simple to implement,nothing but a few lines of code that looks for triggers to be met then just insert new data for each quest.it is when games create added animation and interaction that they actually become fun but this happens on VERY rare occasions.
Problem is its not cheap to make mmos, speically if your doing something thats kinda new and something not many people touched. The programing for the combat itself was probably nightmare at best, even GW2 couldn't full hit box and they have much more funding than Tera does. People some how think that developer has infinate money and time, and speically when compare to WoW. Do people realised that WoW sololy updated over time to have the quest it does now? After they made fcking millions of dollar and have money and resource to do it?
Tera is made by a brand new company with pretty much no money from other title to fall on to take a leap at something new and refreshing, ofc it won't be perfect and many aspect need fixing but I'm sorry was any game launched perfect? Didn't they all update and change for the better?
Like omg this game has this one flaw its horrible its bad coz it has this one flaw. Like really people?
I have been playiing tor and have been having quite a bit of fun it in, I got a beta call a couple of weeks ago for tera and said why not, I will compare it to tor, and it did not compare well especially the first several quests. It is very difficult going to amy mmo now after the excellent quest system in tor but teras was really bad. I then got another beta key a couple of days ago and said "ok let me pretend I never played tor and give it another try" the quests still really bothered me but I was able to get into the combat a bit more and the drops were pretty good, so it was more enjoyable than my first weekend. This would be a good F2P game but at this time it is not something I would pay for
I for one think that Skyrim does questing a lot better than SW:TOR, has better graphics, a story that makes sense in the game that it's supposed to be (single player) and of course you don't get charged a subscription fee for the single play experience. SW:TOR questing in the way they were delivered in the pseudo-mmorpg environment were a complete failure, both in lore terms and in how heavily restricted they were. You were basically watching a movie, not playing an mmorpg.
The best questing method that will hopefully soon be adopted by others is seen in GW2, with the dynamic scaling events. In those the world feel alive, you are not the center of the universe but a simple participant in a live world. Rifts are also pretty cool, they'd be a lot cooler if there was more variety, but they definitely build a stronger tie with the open world than the rigid on tracks questing of Cataclysm and SW:TOR questing.
Of course the masses today probably don't want an actual mmorpg to play , which is the reason they gravitate towards glorified single player games like SW:TOR or hub instanced games like WoW (the open world becomes obsolete once you are maxed). Therefore, it's good that at least there is some choice given to those who still wish to play in a classic mmorpg like Tera. The good news is that the Tera developers seem at least as responsive as Rift's, so stuff will be added fast in the game, or at least a lot faster than the supposedly big delelopers like Blizzard and Bioware, who reinvest only a tiny fraction of the huge profits they make.
I guess the "f2p" comment is used these days to badmouth a new title coming out. It's all what your looking for in the end. I personally think SWTOR deserves the f2p tag more than TERA. I couldn't handle the redundancy after three weeks.
I'm tired of arcade games where you go through the same path level, after level, after level.
I agree with you 100% on the questing. If quests were smaller in number but more epic they would be useful and engaging. That's how I'm using the main quest in TERA.
If you do try TERA I would suggest only doing the main questline (indicated by red symbols). You still get the info on what's going on in the game and it unfolds but you don't have to keep track of all the other side quests. Plus, you will have level gaps from one segement of the main quest to another so you can use that excuse to explore and kill random mobs. Which is actually enjoyable because of the combat system.
As the level curve turns up you'll be able to take advantage of the group content without out leveling everything. That's my plan anyhow. I want a good balance of small questing and large group activities.
As far as character progression outside leveling there is the glyph system. It specializes you within your class and from what I hear is pretty broad at later levels.
Nope. This is literally the worst I've ever seen. Second is Atlantica.
Except it didn't? Quest hubs and linear quest progression was around prior to WoW... we can see where your motives lay.
No, they didn't. And my point isn't the structure of the quest layout, my point was the quality of quest in bringing the ability to suspend disbelief.
This sentance dedicated to how much one man can love WoW.
I played WoW for about 3 months. Since then I've come to appreciate how it's improved the genre, and despise how it's caused the genre to stagnate.
I do believe you're a WoW lover, however, since you obviously feel the questing system cannot be improved upon.
Progressionists were already in the genre. WoW did not attract them (though it does cater to them). Just like everything else WoW didn't invent, yep, whats your point?
That the players WoW brought into the genre were disproportionately NOT Progressionists.
WoW brought players in because it's the first game that made a quick, effective impression and a reason why you should be doing what you're doing. Well thats a good guess, but hey your guess is as good as mine, and I'm going to guess it was because it was an established IP and the first major game to decide to take the leap to Online that was an established successful IP, IE Diablo, Warcraft etc. No other game maker that was well known had entered the arena yet, it came first, and won. Look at VHS vs Betamax, learn history
IP != success. That's been proven time and time again. Any other horrible guesses?
As every last one of them is optional, why is more bad?
Because it's taking up resources that can be used to make the game good, instead of bad. And the quality of the quest is not often visible when you first take the quest, which means if you have some crap and some good, you don't necessarily get to pick which you want.
Read the quests? The entire first zone is ABOUT a mystery. I can tell you didn't bother to read anything about the game or even a single quest...
Except I did. The only mysterious thing was some tree is a pig murderer and why? That's when I quit.
Every quest told me to kill stuff because it would be a good thing to practice on. Like I need to practice holding down the LMB.
There are, and cut scenes and all sorts of types of quests too, you just bothered to play 1 single hour... and judged a game...
If this is true, the expectation that I have to spend 20 hours before I get there is unacceptable. Also I don't think it's true, based off the explanations here.
Name a game that doesnt' have this... name ONE. Couldn't? Oh Its ok. Even EQ 1 had a collect 4 bug eyes quest at level 1 you could do.
There are none, obviously. There are plenty of quests that don't involve these aspects, however. So it's obviously doable. Doing so would improve the game. Doesn't matter if another one has or not.
Didn't miss it, didn't find a SINGLE valid argument listed. But I guess thats what we get from your SINGLE hour of playing.
Yeah. I wanted to play more to be convinced, but the crap I experienced in the first hour was just too much for me. But I guess that's what your developers get for making your game so horrible. And the point isn't just the quests. There was not a single redeemable thing. There was no combat.
Where was it "proven" that an established IP bringing attention to a genre for the first time won't make massive success?
Please give me some examples, because so far all you've done is say "I don't like I don't like I don't like" without any real reasoning or logic or examples... I also like the choice of red for your font, looks serious!
Edit:
For instance when you say "this is literally the worst I've seen" The worst what? Vegetable? And what makes it "the worst" what about it is so terrible that it takes the cake as "the worst"?
Just the fact that you say so?
How about "There was not a single redeemable thing" Oh really? nothing? That is quite a broad statement, considering how many things people could list off that this game renovates, innovates, or invents, as it brings itself to the genre.
You just make a lot of generalizations, that really tell the reader absolutely nothing, except of course, that you "hate" this game.
Originally posted by Sythion Yay, I poked a bee-hive! I was hoping this would spark some discussion about quests, etc. Here are some responses. To those who suggest playing SW:ToR I did play SW:ToR. The experience was a lot like AoC, actually. I enjoyed the game, and the story, for a bit. Then it fell into crap where I got 1500 unrelated quests asking me to do worthless crap, and the story quest literally asked me to do the same thing on the fourth planet in a row (go to this planet and heal a jedi, Great Job! Now go to this planet and heal a jedi!). To those who say TERAs quests are just like all MMORPGs No, they aren't. This is the worst I've ever seen out of a pile of bad, bad games. Actually, WoW's (and maybe GWs) quests were probably the most immersive, and that was 8 years ago. However, this comparison is my point exactly. WoW came up with a style of progression that revolutionized and really created a genre that's as large as it is now. Instead of asking wh this happened, every game developer who creates themepark games just assumed WoW's quest system is some sort of magic bullet that is the absolute pinnacle of achievement and can never be improved upon. Progressionists were already in the genre. WoW did not attract them (though it does cater to them). WoW brought players in because it's the first game that made a quick, effective impression and a reason why you should be doing what you're doing. It's the first game that could actually provide suspension of disbelief, which is absolutely vital unless a game is just about the mechanics. There are ways to do things different through quests!
[*] MAKE LESS QUESTS. This is the biggest no brainer, and yet no one has done it. Have the quests themselves be accessible, but have them, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, tell an interesting story or help to uncover lore of the gameworld. Have them take you somewhere far away, letting the player explore and discover how to get there. Have lots of "rest places" where people can logout and come back safe. The crazy thing: this is cheaper than the current status quo. [*] CREATE MYSTERY. WoW did this with a lot of quests. No one else, even SW:ToR, seems to have figured it out. Don't tell the story of what your character is going to do BEFORE THEY DO IT. Give the player a chance to figure things out.
MAKE MULTI-STEP QUESTS THAT PROGRESS BY MORE THAN JUST NPCS. So an NPC tells you to do something, you go and do it. Something unexpected happens and you have to continue to do the quest on your own. Quests need to be triggered by more than just NPCs for this to happen.
DO IT BETTER. Do not create kill 10 rats quests. Do not create fedex quests. Do not create talk to this guy quests. Now you have to be creative. Have fun using your brain, quest writers
To those who say quests have to be bad so that the game can take a long time. First off, this is not true. Second, go hump a cactus. Your attitude has literally stagnated the industry for 8 years, and game developers cater to you because you subscribe the longest. This, if anything, is what's wrong with a subscription fee. It encourages developers to make their games unenjoyable, because we're in this weird limbo where the most important customers think that badgames are better than good games, so long as they take longer to play. To those who say the combat in TERA is its saving grace I was hoping this would be the case. I can forgive a lot if combat is actually fun, challenging, and enjoyable. However it's apparant that if this is ever even going to be the case, it will be many, many hours of killing 10 rats before I get there. It may be action combat, but it sure feels like turn-based combat when you can literally just stand there auto attacking and win versus everything with 95% of your health left. Seriously, if the game has this awesome combat system, GET THE PLAYERS HOOKED ON IT FROM THE START!!!!!!!!!!!!! Usually I get frustrated when people whine about games catering to the lowest common denominator because these games rarely have any skill to begin with. Killing mobs in EQ that could win with RNG or roaming randomness, and being forced to get your corpse, and camping for 10 hours was not a challenge, it was a pain in the ass. There's a difference. Tera, however, has completely invalidated all the work they put into making an original combat system by making it NOT MATTER! Why? Why would you do this to your game?
Signed 100% I had to register just to quote you.
Originally posted by Nadya3 yes everyone and their mother knows, that questing is the weakest point in Tera. Nevertheless there is a lore and a nice story for Tera btw. and you can find tons of info about it. to say that the entire game revolves around mindlessly killing the same enemies to level up is simply not true. in fact there is tons of content planned, tons of patches coming with lots of content. there is some amazing political system, that we haven't test it yet, hasen't been added yet. there will be world invasions. there will be guild wars for territorial controll. there will be raiding. inform yourself a little more, before you make such bold statements. what we get from this closed betas, is not even a 2 % of all the content there will be. they know they can't make the same mistake they did in KTera release.
That's what i call a fanboy. Telling other people to "inform themselves" when your not informed yourself and talking about immaginary and wonderful FUTURE content. Lore and story is weak and scarse in Tera. And the game does a bad job to expose it About the tons of upcoming patches... the "amazing political system" is already out in Korea and it already failed. Guild A will vote for Guild B in region X and Guild B will vote for Guild A in region Y. That's the "amazing" political system. World invasions? no info about that except there will be in the future.... FAR future. They barely managed to copy the rifts in Korea a month ago and they were laggy as hell. And they were just simplified rifts copies from RIFT. Like this we will have world invasions by 2014.... There will be NO raiding And there is and won't be territorial control. Especially guild wars for territorial control. At most there is rated battlegrounds to be choosen as a Vanarch. Guild wars are meaningless. I lol'ed at the 2%
Originally posted by Xasapis
I respectfully disagree. mmorpgs that guide the players by the nose are destined to fail, or are better suited as single player games anyway.
In any case, there are plenty of examples of mmorpgs that start slow and become an amazing experience eventually (EVE for example), so for an mmorpg it's not such a rigid requirement to hook you within the hour.
he mmorpgs that guide the players by the nose (aka known as themepark mmorpgs) are not destined to fail.... they are about 95% of the player base.
WOW, EQ2, RIFT, TERA, GW2,AOC,AION etc.
What you are talking about "players making their own story and game experience" are the sandbox mmorpgs like Ultima Online and Eve Online
Yay, I poked a bee-hive! I was hoping this would spark some discussion about quests, etc.
Here are some responses.
To those who suggest playing SW:ToR
I did play SW:ToR. The experience was a lot like AoC, actually. I enjoyed the game, and the story, for a bit. Then it fell into crap where I got 1500 unrelated quests asking me to do worthless crap, and the story quest literally asked me to do the same thing on the fourth planet in a row (go to this planet and heal a jedi, Great Job! Now go to this planet and heal a jedi!).
To those who say TERAs quests are just like all MMORPGs
No, they aren't. This is the worst I've ever seen out of a pile of bad, bad games. Actually, WoW's (and maybe GWs) quests were probably the most immersive, and that was 8 years ago. However, this comparison is my point exactly. WoW came up with a style of progression that revolutionized and really created a genre that's as large as it is now. Instead of asking wh this happened, every game developer who creates themepark games just assumed WoW's quest system is some sort of magic bullet that is the absolute pinnacle of achievement and can never be improved upon.
Progressionists were already in the genre. WoW did not attract them (though it does cater to them).
WoW brought players in because it's the first game that made a quick, effective impression and a reason why you should be doing what you're doing. It's the first game that could actually provide suspension of disbelief, which is absolutely vital unless a game is just about the mechanics.
There are ways to do things different through quests!
[*]
MAKE LESS QUESTS. This is the biggest no brainer, and yet no one has done it. Have the quests themselves be accessible, but have them, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, tell an interesting story or help to uncover lore of the gameworld. Have them take you somewhere far away, letting the player explore and discover how to get there. Have lots of "rest places" where people can logout and come back safe. The crazy thing: this is cheaper than the current status quo.
[*]
CREATE MYSTERY. WoW did this with a lot of quests. No one else, even SW:ToR, seems to have figured it out. Don't tell the story of what your character is going to do BEFORE THEY DO IT. Give the player a chance to figure things out.
MAKE MULTI-STEP QUESTS THAT PROGRESS BY MORE THAN JUST NPCS. So an NPC tells you to do something, you go and do it. Something unexpected happens and you have to continue to do the quest on your own. Quests need to be triggered by more than just NPCs for this to happen.
DO IT BETTER. Do not create kill 10 rats quests. Do not create fedex quests. Do not create talk to this guy quests. Now you have to be creative. Have fun using your brain, quest writers
To those who say quests have to be bad so that the game can take a long time.
First off, this is not true.
Second, go hump a cactus. Your attitude has literally stagnated the industry for 8 years, and game developers cater to you because you subscribe the longest.
This, if anything, is what's wrong with a subscription fee. It encourages developers to make their games unenjoyable, because we're in this weird limbo where the most important customers think that badgames are better than good games, so long as they take longer to play.
To those who say the combat in TERA is its saving grace
I was hoping this would be the case. I can forgive a lot if combat is actually fun, challenging, and enjoyable. However it's apparant that if this is ever even going to be the case, it will be many, many hours of killing 10 rats before I get there. It may be action combat, but it sure feels like turn-based combat when you can literally just stand there auto attacking and win versus everything with 95% of your health left.
Seriously, if the game has this awesome combat system, GET THE PLAYERS HOOKED ON IT FROM THE START!!!!!!!!!!!!! Usually I get frustrated when people whine about games catering to the lowest common denominator because these games rarely have any skill to begin with. Killing mobs in EQ that could win with RNG or roaming randomness, and being forced to get your corpse, and camping for 10 hours was not a challenge, it was a pain in the ass. There's a difference.
Tera, however, has completely invalidated all the work they put into making an original combat system by making it NOT MATTER!
Why?
Why would you do this to your game?
Signed 100%
I had to register just to quote you.
Originally posted by Nadya3
yes everyone and their mother knows, that questing is the weakest point in Tera. Nevertheless there is a lore and a nice story for Tera btw. and you can find tons of info about it.
to say that the entire game revolves around mindlessly killing the same enemies to level up is simply not true. in fact there is tons of content planned, tons of patches coming with lots of content. there is some amazing political system, that we haven't test it yet, hasen't been added yet. there will be world invasions. there will be guild wars for territorial controll. there will be raiding. inform yourself a little more, before you make such bold statements.
what we get from this closed betas, is not even a 2 % of all the content there will be. they know they can't make the same mistake they did in KTera release.
That's what i call a fanboy.
Telling other people to "inform themselves" when your not informed yourself and talking about immaginary and wonderful FUTURE content.
Lore and story is weak and scarse in Tera. And the game does a bad job to expose it
About the tons of upcoming patches...
the "amazing political system" is already out in Korea and it already failed. Guild A will vote for Guild B in region X and Guild B will vote for Guild A in region Y. That's the "amazing" political system.
World invasions? no info about that except there will be in the future.... FAR future. They barely managed to copy the rifts in Korea a month ago and they were laggy as hell. And they were just simplified rifts copies from RIFT. Like this we will have world invasions by 2014....
There will be NO raiding
And there is and won't be territorial control. Especially guild wars for territorial control. At most there is rated battlegrounds to be choosen as a Vanarch. Guild wars are meaningless.
I lol'ed at the 2%
Originally posted by Xasapis
I respectfully disagree. mmorpgs that guide the players by the nose are destined to fail, or are better suited as single player games anyway.
In any case, there are plenty of examples of mmorpgs that start slow and become an amazing experience eventually (EVE for example), so for an mmorpg it's not such a rigid requirement to hook you within the hour.
he mmorpgs that guide the players by the nose (aka known as themepark mmorpgs) are not destined to fail.... they are about 95% of the player base.
WOW, EQ2, RIFT, TERA, GW2,AOC,AION etc.
What you are talking about "players making their own story and game experience" are the sandbox mmorpgs like Ultima Online and Eve Online
They are pretty niche.
you have less Credibility than a fake Dollar bill.
why am i a fanboy? because i like the game? because im not a bitter hater such yourself? because i don't join the horde of game Bashers that do nothing else than trying to impose their hatred on everyone else who don't think like them?
i guess i most be a fanboy then! i can think of many things to call you, and none of them is nice.
you have less Credibility than a fake Dollar bill.
why am i a fanboy? because i like the game? because im not a bitter and miserable lame human being like you, that hates everything including himself? then you are right, i guess i most be a fanboy!
No need to go into insults calm down.
I simply found funny how you told him "inform yourself!" when you yourself don't know much about the game.
I especially grinned at the "guild wars for territorial control" The power of wishfull thinking
And telling him that we have seen only 2% of the game until now... well that was really funny too.
It's a shame your thread will get flamed by people talking how you didn't even finish tutorial.. well i said it ahead of time.. the game should grab your attention at level 1.. not after level 20
I agree with that wholeheartedly. This arguement of, 'Oh you only played a couple of hours so you didn't get to the good bits', is utter rubbish. If the game doesn't interest you from the beginning why bother investing time into it?
I had a similar experience OP, couldn't stand it more then an hour. The combats pretty fun but similar to something like DC Universe apart from the combo system. The quests though just bored the hell out of me, so I don't, 'stand for it', by not buying it.
Telling other people to "inform themselves" when your not informed yourself and talking about immaginary and wonderful FUTURE content.
Lore and story is weak and scarse in Tera. And the game does a bad job to expose it
About the tons of upcoming patches...
the "amazing political system" is already out in Korea and it already failed. Guild A will vote for Guild B in region X and Guild B will vote for Guild A in region Y. That's the "amazing" political system.
World invasions? no info about that except there will be in the future.... FAR future. They barely managed to copy the rifts in Korea a month ago and they were laggy as hell. And they were just simplified rifts copies from RIFT. Like this we will have world invasions by 2014....
There will be NO raiding
And there is and won't be territorial control. Especially guild wars for territorial control. At most there is rated battlegrounds to be choosen as a Vanarch. Guild wars are meaningless.
I lol'ed at the 2%
you have less Credibility than a fake Dollar bill.
why am i a fanboy? because i like the game? because im not a bitter hater such yourself? because i don't join the horde of game Bashers that do nothing else than trying to impose their hatred on everyone else who don't think like them?
i guess i most be a fanboy then! i can think of many things to call you, and none of them is nice.
He is the one talking about what is in the game where as you are talking about things not even in the game yet. So he has alot more credibility than you, that is for sure.
Telling other people to "inform themselves" when your not informed yourself and talking about immaginary and wonderful FUTURE content.
Lore and story is weak and scarse in Tera. And the game does a bad job to expose it
About the tons of upcoming patches...
the "amazing political system" is already out in Korea and it already failed. Guild A will vote for Guild B in region X and Guild B will vote for Guild A in region Y. That's the "amazing" political system.
World invasions? no info about that except there will be in the future.... FAR future. They barely managed to copy the rifts in Korea a month ago and they were laggy as hell. And they were just simplified rifts copies from RIFT. Like this we will have world invasions by 2014....
There will be NO raiding
And there is and won't be territorial control. Especially guild wars for territorial control. At most there is rated battlegrounds to be choosen as a Vanarch. Guild wars are meaningless.
I lol'ed at the 2%
First of all since when have we and Koreans every like the same thing? How do you know if Koreans didn't like it we won't? Last time i checked Koreans loves grinding we have it, they love RNG we hate it, and they hate owpvp but we love it. So ya how do you know we won't love the political system? And its call politics thats what is it, its not complete democray as you may imagine.
Exepect they already been working on it queen of argon part 2 patch is this summer
And the fact they already stated they are working on raid content
Guild War is fun, thats all it need to be. Last time I checked most people played games for fun. when it become if there is no award its no point?
I for one think that Skyrim does questing a lot better than SW:TOR, has better graphics, a story that makes sense in the game that it's supposed to be (single player) and of course you don't get charged a subscription fee for the single play experience. SW:TOR questing in the way they were delivered in the pseudo-mmorpg environment were a complete failure, both in lore terms and in how heavily restricted they were. You were basically watching a movie, not playing an mmorpg.
The best questing method that will hopefully soon be adopted by others is seen in GW2, with the dynamic scaling events. In those the world feel alive, you are not the center of the universe but a simple participant in a live world. Rifts are also pretty cool, they'd be a lot cooler if there was more variety, but they definitely build a stronger tie with the open world than the rigid on tracks questing of Cataclysm and SW:TOR questing.
Of course the masses today probably don't want an actual mmorpg to play , which is the reason they gravitate towards glorified single player games like SW:TOR or hub instanced games like WoW (the open world becomes obsolete once you are maxed). Therefore, it's good that at least there is some choice given to those who still wish to play in a classic mmorpg like Tera. The good news is that the Tera developers seem at least as responsive as Rift's, so stuff will be added fast in the game, or at least a lot faster than the supposedly big delelopers like Blizzard and Bioware, who reinvest only a tiny fraction of the huge profits they make.
Although I like swtor quite a bit, I also like Skyrim and think their quests are good in the context of the story. Lets face it though Tera while their game play is fairly good their quests, story line are not. I find it easier to get immersed when a game has a story such as swtor, skyrim (sandbox as it is) or Lotro minus the kill 10 boars and bears lol
It's a shame your thread will get flamed by people talking how you didn't even finish tutorial.. well i said it ahead of time.. the game should grab your attention at level 1.. not after level 20
I agree with that wholeheartedly. This arguement of, 'Oh you only played a couple of hours so you didn't get to the good bits', is utter rubbish. If the game doesn't interest you from the beginning why bother investing time into it?
I had a similar experience OP, couldn't stand it more then an hour. The combats pretty fun but similar to something like DC Universe apart from the combo system. The quests though just bored the hell out of me, so I don't, 'stand for it', by not buying it.
I do agree with this although it did not seem to help AOC who had the great Tortage with its story line, cut scenes and voice overs, I just think it was to jarring for people to go back to that wall of text
First of all since when have we and Koreans every like the same thing? How do you know if Koreans didn't like it we won't? Last time i checked Koreans loves grinding we have it, they love RNG we hate it, and they hate owpvp but we love it. So ya how do you know we won't love the political system? And its call politics thats what is it, its not complete democray as you may imagine.
I never talked about what koreans like or dislike. I don't even know where you are coming from.
I didn't say we won't "love" the political system. I just said the so called "political system" is flawed. Every player can vote for every region so the biggest guilds will exchange votes. I bet you can already see where this is going.
And that's why they made 2 regions where the Vanarch will be elected through rated battlegrounds. To give the chance to the small guilds to become Vanarchs.
There is no "politics" involved with rated bgs but oh well.
Since there won't be battlegrounds until later this summer those 2 Vanarchies at launch will be ruled by votes too. Sigh
This is what you get when you try to fit a sandbox feature in a themepark mmorpg (TERA) : a mess.
Exepect they already been working on it queen of argon part 2 patch is this summer
And the fact they already stated they are working on raid content
Guild War is fun, thats all it need to be. Last time I checked most people played games for fun. when it become if there is no award its no point?
Please link the official announcement they are working on raid content. I mean something official not fans speculations.
I hope you are not making confusion between instanced raid content and the owPVE "raids" aka Rifts that recently started in Korea.
I'm eager to read about this announcement from the developers. Pls link it.
All we know as of now is that at endgame we get 4-5 dungeons (depending how many 58lvls dungeons will be pumped up to 60lvl) and hopefully later this summer we get battlegrounds and rifts.
P.s. we are a bit off topic here since we are supposed to talk about the bad tera quests. So open a thread about the future Tera raids.
How many hours am I supposed to suffer before I would be able to experience combat?
During that period of time am I allowed to to other self destructive things, like rip out my toenails, instead of kill10rat grinding?
I have no good answer for you.
Some people are wired where a lot of this silly stuff is a means to an end and that end is usually the "social" part of these mmo's. It's the pvp, the raiding, the grouping up.
In Lineage 2 I didn't run the same 3 quests all day one saturday (and there were very few quests worth doing in L2) because they were enourmous fun.
I did them with my guild leader so we could make money to buy better equipment so we could be more competitive in pvp.
This was the game offered to make money reasonably quickl and we did it.
Whereas those people who are interested in each moment being something of interest are just not going to be able to relate. For us it was a story to be told and there was a certain amusement to be had by doing this.
The game world gave us the tools and we just did what had to be done.
This is a lot different from the "each quest, each actioin needs to be enjoyable or quickly needs to lead to something enjoyable" mode of thought.
I suppose it's the difference between theme park elements and sand box elements.
I say elements because obviously these games are more along the line of the theme parks, but they larger game feels more social and plays a bit more like the sandbox where the actual meat of the game play is the players. Not what we are doing but how and with who.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Where was it "proven" that an established IP bringing attention to a genre for the first time won't make massive success?
Ultima Online. The Ultima franchise was very well respected and loved in the 90's, and the game did not experience success anywhere near WoWs.
Originally posted by Laughing-man
For instance when you say "this is literally the worst I've seen" The worst what? Vegetable? And what makes it "the worst" what about it is so terrible that it takes the cake as "the worst"?
The worst quests, as I had originally said when you responded to me. The quests are the worst because they have without exception shown me nothing of the game world, or give me anything interesting to do. They told me to practice on stuff. If I wanted to practice on stuff, I can do so without you telling me to. It might get better after an hour, but TERA lost its chance.
How about "There was not a single redeemable thing" Oh really? nothing? That is quite a broad statement, considering how many things people could list off that this game renovates, innovates, or invents, as it brings itself to the genre.
This was a generalization. I actually did like the graphics, the art style, and the creature design. And I was SOOOOOO disappointed when the trees didn't attack me back. Whatever innovations and renovations it brings were not visible to me yet, which is their fault.
You just make a lot of generalizations, that really tell the reader absolutely nothing, except of course, that you "hate" this game.
My point is not that I hate TERA (although I do). My point is that I wanted to enjoy TERA, but it did nothing to interest me in the first hour. My point is that this is unacceptable for a game, and that we, as consumers, should stop encouraging and accepting it in the name of long progression.
The complains about the lackluster quests and especially the bad starting area is nothing new in TERA.
Enmasse announced they will introduce a new tutorial area before the island to better explain the lore and make the players more interested in the game (right now the lore and story experience is very badly written)
Let's see what we get. It's only a month until launch
New Prologue Zone: We want to teach people about the lore behind the Island of Dawn (and throw them into some action), so we created an entirely new tutorial zone that serves as the precursor to the current Island of Dawn experience.
99% of the other alternative has the same horrid questing, but then this is true for all mmorpgs, namely, talk to quest giver, get quest go somewhere do something e.g. kill mob, pickup stuff, talk to ppl etc.., go back to quest giver and get reward etc....
well if this is horrid pls do not play any mmorpgs just play single player type of games.
How many hours am I supposed to suffer before I would be able to experience combat?
During that period of time am I allowed to to other self destructive things, like rip out my toenails, instead of kill10rat grinding?
I have no good answer for you.
Some people are wired where a lot of this silly stuff is a means to an end and that end is usually the "social" part of these mmo's. It's the pvp, the raiding, the grouping up.
In Lineage 2 I didn't run the same 3 quests all day one saturday (and there were very few quests worth doing in L2) because they were enourmous fun.
I did them with my guild leader so we could make money to buy better equipment so we could be more competitive in pvp.
This was the game offered to make money reasonably quickl and we did it.
Whereas those people who are interested in each moment being something of interest are just not going to be able to relate. For us it was a story to be told and there was a certain amusement to be had by doing this.
The game world gave us the tools and we just did what had to be done.
This is a lot different from the "each quest, each actioin needs to be enjoyable or quickly needs to lead to something enjoyable" mode of thought.
I suppose it's the difference between theme park elements and sand box elements.
I say elements because obviously these games are more along the line of the theme parks, but they larger game feels more social and plays a bit more like the sandbox where the actual meat of the game play is the players. Not what we are doing but how and with who.
Good analysis!
I don't expect every game to cater to everyone, and I guess there are plenty of people who will play a game for countless hours even if it's not engaging to them.
I do think that if a game is going to try to do something it should at least put some thought and effort into it and the player's experience.
99% of the other alternative has the same horrid questing, but then this is true for all mmorpgs, namely, talk to quest giver, get quest go somewhere do something e.g. kill mob, pickup stuff, talk to ppl etc.., go back to quest giver and get reward etc....
well if this is horrid pls do not play any mmorpgs just play single player type of games.
Please explain to me why this is a vital and immutable aspect of the industry?
"WoW sold a lot of copies" is the best argument I've ever heard.
Comments
Problem is its not cheap to make mmos, speically if your doing something thats kinda new and something not many people touched. The programing for the combat itself was probably nightmare at best, even GW2 couldn't full hit box and they have much more funding than Tera does. People some how think that developer has infinate money and time, and speically when compare to WoW. Do people realised that WoW sololy updated over time to have the quest it does now? After they made fcking millions of dollar and have money and resource to do it?
Tera is made by a brand new company with pretty much no money from other title to fall on to take a leap at something new and refreshing, ofc it won't be perfect and many aspect need fixing but I'm sorry was any game launched perfect? Didn't they all update and change for the better?
Like omg this game has this one flaw its horrible its bad coz it has this one flaw. Like really people?
I have been playiing tor and have been having quite a bit of fun it in, I got a beta call a couple of weeks ago for tera and said why not, I will compare it to tor, and it did not compare well especially the first several quests. It is very difficult going to amy mmo now after the excellent quest system in tor but teras was really bad. I then got another beta key a couple of days ago and said "ok let me pretend I never played tor and give it another try" the quests still really bothered me but I was able to get into the combat a bit more and the drops were pretty good, so it was more enjoyable than my first weekend. This would be a good F2P game but at this time it is not something I would pay for
I for one think that Skyrim does questing a lot better than SW:TOR, has better graphics, a story that makes sense in the game that it's supposed to be (single player) and of course you don't get charged a subscription fee for the single play experience. SW:TOR questing in the way they were delivered in the pseudo-mmorpg environment were a complete failure, both in lore terms and in how heavily restricted they were. You were basically watching a movie, not playing an mmorpg.
The best questing method that will hopefully soon be adopted by others is seen in GW2, with the dynamic scaling events. In those the world feel alive, you are not the center of the universe but a simple participant in a live world. Rifts are also pretty cool, they'd be a lot cooler if there was more variety, but they definitely build a stronger tie with the open world than the rigid on tracks questing of Cataclysm and SW:TOR questing.
Of course the masses today probably don't want an actual mmorpg to play , which is the reason they gravitate towards glorified single player games like SW:TOR or hub instanced games like WoW (the open world becomes obsolete once you are maxed). Therefore, it's good that at least there is some choice given to those who still wish to play in a classic mmorpg like Tera. The good news is that the Tera developers seem at least as responsive as Rift's, so stuff will be added fast in the game, or at least a lot faster than the supposedly big delelopers like Blizzard and Bioware, who reinvest only a tiny fraction of the huge profits they make.
I'm tired of arcade games where you go through the same path level, after level, after level.
Just not worth my time anymore.
I agree with you 100% on the questing. If quests were smaller in number but more epic they would be useful and engaging. That's how I'm using the main quest in TERA.
If you do try TERA I would suggest only doing the main questline (indicated by red symbols). You still get the info on what's going on in the game and it unfolds but you don't have to keep track of all the other side quests. Plus, you will have level gaps from one segement of the main quest to another so you can use that excuse to explore and kill random mobs. Which is actually enjoyable because of the combat system.
As the level curve turns up you'll be able to take advantage of the group content without out leveling everything. That's my plan anyhow. I want a good balance of small questing and large group activities.
As far as character progression outside leveling there is the glyph system. It specializes you within your class and from what I hear is pretty broad at later levels.
Just not worth my time anymore.
Where was it "proven" that an established IP bringing attention to a genre for the first time won't make massive success?
Please give me some examples, because so far all you've done is say "I don't like I don't like I don't like" without any real reasoning or logic or examples... I also like the choice of red for your font, looks serious!
Edit:
For instance when you say "this is literally the worst I've seen" The worst what? Vegetable? And what makes it "the worst" what about it is so terrible that it takes the cake as "the worst"?
Just the fact that you say so?
How about "There was not a single redeemable thing" Oh really? nothing? That is quite a broad statement, considering how many things people could list off that this game renovates, innovates, or invents, as it brings itself to the genre.
You just make a lot of generalizations, that really tell the reader absolutely nothing, except of course, that you "hate" this game.
Telling other people to "inform themselves" when your not informed yourself and talking about immaginary and wonderful FUTURE content.
Lore and story is weak and scarse in Tera. And the game does a bad job to expose it
About the tons of upcoming patches...
the "amazing political system" is already out in Korea and it already failed. Guild A will vote for Guild B in region X and Guild B will vote for Guild A in region Y. That's the "amazing" political system.
World invasions? no info about that except there will be in the future.... FAR future. They barely managed to copy the rifts in Korea a month ago and they were laggy as hell. And they were just simplified rifts copies from RIFT. Like this we will have world invasions by 2014....
There will be NO raiding
And there is and won't be territorial control. Especially guild wars for territorial control. At most there is rated battlegrounds to be choosen as a Vanarch. Guild wars are meaningless.
I lol'ed at the 2%
he mmorpgs that guide the players by the nose (aka known as themepark mmorpgs) are not destined to fail.... they are about 95% of the player base.
WOW, EQ2, RIFT, TERA, GW2,AOC,AION etc.
What you are talking about "players making their own story and game experience" are the sandbox mmorpgs like Ultima Online and Eve Online
They are pretty niche.
trolling comes to easy nowadays! Roll eyes.
you have less Credibility than a fake Dollar bill.
why am i a fanboy? because i like the game? because im not a bitter hater such yourself? because i don't join the horde of game Bashers that do nothing else than trying to impose their hatred on everyone else who don't think like them?
i guess i most be a fanboy then! i can think of many things to call you, and none of them is nice.
No need to go into insults calm down.
I simply found funny how you told him "inform yourself!" when you yourself don't know much about the game.
I especially grinned at the "guild wars for territorial control"
The power of wishfull thinking
And telling him that we have seen only 2% of the game until now... well that was really funny too.
Nadya you make us look bad, throwing out insults all while ignoring the information people provide is never a good thing to do.
Well, even now I am still playing TERA a lot, I probably have 30+ hours spent at the BETA level cap and OWPvP is still keeping me amused.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. This arguement of, 'Oh you only played a couple of hours so you didn't get to the good bits', is utter rubbish. If the game doesn't interest you from the beginning why bother investing time into it?
I had a similar experience OP, couldn't stand it more then an hour. The combats pretty fun but similar to something like DC Universe apart from the combo system. The quests though just bored the hell out of me, so I don't, 'stand for it', by not buying it.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
yes you are right, my appologies. i better get some sleep lol.
He is the one talking about what is in the game where as you are talking about things not even in the game yet. So he has alot more credibility than you, that is for sure.
My gaming blog
First of all since when have we and Koreans every like the same thing? How do you know if Koreans didn't like it we won't? Last time i checked Koreans loves grinding we have it, they love RNG we hate it, and they hate owpvp but we love it. So ya how do you know we won't love the political system? And its call politics thats what is it, its not complete democray as you may imagine.
Exepect they already been working on it queen of argon part 2 patch is this summer
And the fact they already stated they are working on raid content
Guild War is fun, thats all it need to be. Last time I checked most people played games for fun. when it become if there is no award its no point?
Although I like swtor quite a bit, I also like Skyrim and think their quests are good in the context of the story. Lets face it though Tera while their game play is fairly good their quests, story line are not. I find it easier to get immersed when a game has a story such as swtor, skyrim (sandbox as it is) or Lotro minus the kill 10 boars and bears lol
I do agree with this although it did not seem to help AOC who had the great Tortage with its story line, cut scenes and voice overs, I just think it was to jarring for people to go back to that wall of text
I never talked about what koreans like or dislike. I don't even know where you are coming from.
I didn't say we won't "love" the political system. I just said the so called "political system" is flawed. Every player can vote for every region so the biggest guilds will exchange votes. I bet you can already see where this is going.
And that's why they made 2 regions where the Vanarch will be elected through rated battlegrounds. To give the chance to the small guilds to become Vanarchs.
There is no "politics" involved with rated bgs but oh well.
Since there won't be battlegrounds until later this summer those 2 Vanarchies at launch will be ruled by votes too. Sigh
This is what you get when you try to fit a sandbox feature in a themepark mmorpg (TERA) : a mess.
Please link the official announcement they are working on raid content. I mean something official not fans speculations.
I hope you are not making confusion between instanced raid content and the owPVE "raids" aka Rifts that recently started in Korea.
I'm eager to read about this announcement from the developers. Pls link it.
All we know as of now is that at endgame we get 4-5 dungeons (depending how many 58lvls dungeons will be pumped up to 60lvl) and hopefully later this summer we get battlegrounds and rifts.
P.s. we are a bit off topic here since we are supposed to talk about the bad tera quests. So open a thread about the future Tera raids.
I have no good answer for you.
Some people are wired where a lot of this silly stuff is a means to an end and that end is usually the "social" part of these mmo's. It's the pvp, the raiding, the grouping up.
In Lineage 2 I didn't run the same 3 quests all day one saturday (and there were very few quests worth doing in L2) because they were enourmous fun.
I did them with my guild leader so we could make money to buy better equipment so we could be more competitive in pvp.
This was the game offered to make money reasonably quickl and we did it.
Whereas those people who are interested in each moment being something of interest are just not going to be able to relate. For us it was a story to be told and there was a certain amusement to be had by doing this.
The game world gave us the tools and we just did what had to be done.
This is a lot different from the "each quest, each actioin needs to be enjoyable or quickly needs to lead to something enjoyable" mode of thought.
I suppose it's the difference between theme park elements and sand box elements.
I say elements because obviously these games are more along the line of the theme parks, but they larger game feels more social and plays a bit more like the sandbox where the actual meat of the game play is the players. Not what we are doing but how and with who.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ultima Online. The Ultima franchise was very well respected and loved in the 90's, and the game did not experience success anywhere near WoWs.
The worst quests, as I had originally said when you responded to me. The quests are the worst because they have without exception shown me nothing of the game world, or give me anything interesting to do. They told me to practice on stuff. If I wanted to practice on stuff, I can do so without you telling me to. It might get better after an hour, but TERA lost its chance.
This was a generalization. I actually did like the graphics, the art style, and the creature design. And I was SOOOOOO disappointed when the trees didn't attack me back. Whatever innovations and renovations it brings were not visible to me yet, which is their fault.
My point is not that I hate TERA (although I do). My point is that I wanted to enjoy TERA, but it did nothing to interest me in the first hour. My point is that this is unacceptable for a game, and that we, as consumers, should stop encouraging and accepting it in the name of long progression.
The complains about the lackluster quests and especially the bad starting area is nothing new in TERA.
Enmasse announced they will introduce a new tutorial area before the island to better explain the lore and make the players more interested in the game (right now the lore and story experience is very badly written)
Let's see what we get. It's only a month until launch
http://tera.enmasse.com/news/posts/closed-beta-test-4-recap
New Prologue Zone: We want to teach people about the lore behind the Island of Dawn (and throw them into some action), so we created an entirely new tutorial zone that serves as the precursor to the current Island of Dawn experience.
99% of the other alternative has the same horrid questing, but then this is true for all mmorpgs, namely, talk to quest giver, get quest go somewhere do something e.g. kill mob, pickup stuff, talk to ppl etc.., go back to quest giver and get reward etc....
well if this is horrid pls do not play any mmorpgs just play single player type of games.
think before u leap, plz..
Good analysis!
I don't expect every game to cater to everyone, and I guess there are plenty of people who will play a game for countless hours even if it's not engaging to them.
I do think that if a game is going to try to do something it should at least put some thought and effort into it and the player's experience.
Please explain to me why this is a vital and immutable aspect of the industry?
"WoW sold a lot of copies" is the best argument I've ever heard.
People don't get that it's not the "quest system" that's bad but the way it's done.
The quality of the quests does matter.