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Neverwinter: Cryptic's Dark Horse Rising

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  • jaffrojonesjaffrojones Member Posts: 42

    Originally posted by Yuui







    Originally posted by Beiloch







    5 man raiding = no raiding. How can this possibly qualify as an MMO when the biggest multiplayer thing you can do is 5 man content?






















     





    5man parties is pretty much staple of DnD campaigns. They did say that they will have BIGGER things with more people, but the focus isto polish and put out the content indicated by title. :)





    I have to agree here. Traditionally, D&D is a 5 person party. Maybe six, but never more. It's not the size of the party that should make a raid, but the difficulty and size of the dungeon itself. If they made Underdark a dungeon, where there was no way out but to go forward, making it like a 5 hour dungeon delve that was hard as hell... now that would be a raid.




     




     

     

  • SinakuSinaku Member UncommonPosts: 552

    This looks surprisingly well. Fingers crossed since I play the pen and paper D&D that this can be very similar. GW2 looks as it is letting me down so far and Tera will only be my time kill until high quality games start emerging.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Beiloch

    5 man raiding = no raiding. How can this possibly qualify as an MMO when the biggest multiplayer thing you can do is 5 man content? I mean it looks good otherwise, but looks and sounds terrible to be an 'MMO.' I guess 'MMO' is just for marketing buzz now.






     

    I am glad the game has no raiding. If you have raiding, you always have pressure because only raiders get the really best gear, and I hate raiding. Also, I think it is wise they better focus on a good PVE game with classic party & solo content, and then MAYBE add other stuff later than making ALL at once and then half baked as SWTOR did.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by BillMurphy



    Originally posted by Lobotomist



    This is exactly the problem that mostly killed dnd as video game franchise.





    For some insane reason known only to retarded investors they insist taking deeply tactical pen and paper game (with bigger fan base than starwars) and making it dumbed down arcade game. That appeals only to people that care nothing about dnd.

    This was the reason,othervise good DDO originally tanked.

    As for this, obviously reviewed by people with no knowledge of dnd, and with no knowledge of Cryptic






     

    I just have to disagree.  Both Mike and I play D&D (though maybe not hardcore as some), and as a fan of 4th Edition because of its innate MMO-feel, I think it translates really well to the action-based combat they have here.  

    I also stated right at the beginning that Cryptic has something to prove, and the general feeling on the show floor with fans and media alike is that they're doing just that.

    Be reserved if you will, dislike the direction sure, but don't knock it until you've tried it.

    I played the 4th Edition, and personally: I LOVED the new world story/setting, it really shook things up and made them interesting. I also thought the 4E classes and combat was FINALLY balanced and coherent, where playing the older D&D editions always was terribly imbalanced and with millions of exceptions and special rules. I am greatly looking forward to set my foot in a 4E setting of Faerun, and I hope this game lives long and can expand all over the Sword Coast in time!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,205

    Originally posted by deziwright

    if you play a game for a few months, you deserve to pay imo.

    say: 20 bucks for a mount + some bags + fluff = 30 bucks?! then you just got months of entertainment for 30 bucks or maybe free and no one should complain.

    This.

    If I get into a F2P MMO and actually play for a decent bit, I try to spend 10-15 bucks a month in the cash shop. 

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • Entropy14Entropy14 Member UncommonPosts: 675

    I agree that even f2p needs to make money, but sadly PWE will probably make you pay for silly things like a pot after you die or all your skills are at 50%

     

    also PWE is really really bad at finding any crooked way to take your money in order for you to even function at higher levels,

     

    F2P would be sweet if most of these companies were not scammers and thieves, like gpotatoe and PWE and others.

     

    This is why I am a true believer in just paying my money each month and have access to 99.9% of things.

     

    but most f2P companies pump out MMOs at an intence pace just reskin their old one, give it a new name and hope to make a quick buck and give it no support after release.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by colddog04

    I'm just wondering when rogues started teleporting in D&D. I haven't actually busted open a rulebook since 3.5, but I'm prett sure rogues don't teleport behind people.

    The 4E rules pretty much DEMAND a tabletop with a chequered paper to place your figures on, because many abilities revolve around movement or preventing movement in the PnP version. I played a Monk and I had many abilities which were quasi-teleport. A sort of quick movement which ignores most hindrances. So that seems to be quite a correct way to transfer it to a MMO, what we see here. D&D 4e is really very different from 3.5 and all before. I know for 3.5 purists it was hard to swallow, and to this day there are still some who hate the new 4e, but it also grew on many over time. I say it has way more advantages than setbacks.

    So short answer, yes Rogues teleport. Not magically, but in other ways. It does make sense in the rules, trust me on this. ;)

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by BillMurphy



    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    This is exactly the problem that mostly killed dnd as video game franchise.





    For some insane reason known only to retarded investors they insist taking deeply tactical pen and paper game (with bigger fan base than starwars) and making it dumbed down arcade game. That appeals only to people that care nothing about dnd.

    This was the reason,othervise good DDO originally tanked.

    As for this, obviously reviewed by people with no knowledge of dnd, and with no knowledge of Cryptic






     

    I just have to disagree.  Both Mike and I play D&D (though maybe not hardcore as some), and as a fan of 4th Edition because of its innate MMO-feel, I think it translates really well to the action-based combat they have here.  

    I also stated right at the beginning that Cryptic has something to prove, and the general feeling on the show floor with fans and media alike is that they're doing just that.

    Be reserved if you will, dislike the direction sure, but don't knock it until you've tried it.

    I played the 4th Edition, and personally: I LOVED the new world story/setting, it really shook things up and made them interesting. I also thought the 4E classes and combat was FINALLY balanced and coherent, where playing the older D&D editions always was terribly imbalanced and with millions of exceptions and special rules. I am greatly looking forward to set my foot in a 4E setting of Faerun, and I hope this game lives long and can expand all over the Sword Coast in time!


     

    This!

    Old DnDs were always a murky and haphazard hodge podge of rules. 

     

    While 4ed has things I do and don't like, it appears to be very well organized and balanced.  It does veer heavily into a tactical miniatures style of play, which might account for some folks distaste for it.   Given the intent of the 4Ed revision, it does seem perfect for a new online world. 

     

    We will see if Cryptic can actually deliver on this.  At least it won't cost much to get a lifetime subscription. 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Methos12Methos12 Member UncommonPosts: 1,244

    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    This!

    Old DnDs were always a murky and haphazard hodge podge of rules. 

     

    While 4ed has things I do and don't like, it appears to be very well organized and balanced.  It does veer heavily into a tactical miniatures style of play, which might account for some folks distaste for it.   Given the intent of the 4Ed revision, it does seem perfect for a new online world. 

     

    We will see if Cryptic can actually deliver on this.  At least it won't cost much to get a lifetime subscription. 




     

    Yes, yes they were. Thing is, that's why you have a DM around to mediate and arbitrate. I appreciate what 4E did to streamline the combat flow, that is "streamlined" used in a good way and not what we gamers usually end up with, but pretty much every other aspect of the game suffered in favor of balance and accessibility.

    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Methos12



    Originally posted by Arglebargle







    This!





    Old DnDs were always a murky and haphazard hodge podge of rules. 





     





    While 4ed has things I do and don't like, it appears to be very well organized and balanced.  It does veer heavily into a tactical miniatures style of play, which might account for some folks distaste for it.   Given the intent of the 4Ed revision, it does seem perfect for a new online world. 





     





    We will see if Cryptic can actually deliver on this.  At least it won't cost much to get a lifetime subscription. 










     

    Yes, yes they were. Thing is, that's why you have a DM around to mediate and arbitrate. I appreciate what 4E did to streamline the combat flow, that is "streamlined" used in a good way and not what we gamers usually end up with, but pretty much every other aspect of the game suffered in favor of balance and accessibility.

    One of the main flaws of D&D 3.5 and before was, in the end always players were seeking one of the many special rules to destroy the plans of the DM. It was almost impossible to prevent that or to even know all of the many rules, exceptions asf. I mean, with a very, very disciplined ground you can say "I am DM, it is so because I say so and screw the books", but in reality in the 25 years I play PnP that *never* worked.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • dreldrel Member Posts: 918

    Looks very interesting! Will look forward to seeing if it comes out at years end as the developer said.

  • Methos12Methos12 Member UncommonPosts: 1,244

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by Methos12

    Yes, yes they were. Thing is, that's why you have a DM around to mediate and arbitrate. I appreciate what 4E did to streamline the combat flow, that is "streamlined" used in a good way and not what we gamers usually end up with, but pretty much every other aspect of the game suffered in favor of balance and accessibility.

    One of the main flaws of D&D 3.5 and before was, in the end always players were seeking one of the many special rules to destroy the plans of the DM. It was almost impossible to prevent that or to even know all of the many rules, exceptions asf. I mean, with a very, very disciplined ground you can say "I am DM, it is so because I say so and screw the books", but in reality in the 25 years I play PnP that *never* worked.


     

    I understand what you're saying perfectly but to be honest that's exactly why I play it, or why I used to when I had the time. You need that dynamic relationship between the DM and players, and yes, later trying to screw up former's every plan falls under that. Also, like I said before, that's why you have a DM in the first place. Don't know a specific rule/how to translate something into rules? Pretty sure that DM can simply wing them on the fly. Group composition is out of normal? DM can adjust the difficulty and custom tailor the upcoming events.

    That's actually where my problem lies with the 4E - it simply feels too "video gamey" and limited beyond combat for my tastes and deviates too much from previous editions by focusing way on the tactical combat aspect more than I'd like at the expense of other things. It's almost as if someone forgot that D&D was no longer Chainmail and that it became a role-playing game in the mean time. Judging from this thread some actually like that it plays more like a video game now and that's alright, but that's why we have different tastes. It feels like it was intentionally designed so you could base a game on it.

    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • BlindchanceBlindchance Member UncommonPosts: 1,112

    So what's good about it ? What's new ? No, "it is NeverWinter IP!" is not good enough argument. 

  • albaficassalbaficass Member Posts: 101

    Tera clone..nothing new to see here

  • FelconianFelconian Member Posts: 103

    All i can say is .... ROFL .. Suckers .. if you get sucked into a preorder or a ..hold on ... yes ... LIFE TIME SUB .... ROFL ..

    How many times can poeple hit there head against a wall ... and say ... Oh maybe next time it will break the wall ...lets give Cypitic another chance ...ROFL ...

    Oh how sweet all the tears are going to be when this game is launched ... and you realize its ... incomplete ...But ..But ..

    Suckers ...lol

  • albaficassalbaficass Member Posts: 101

    but anw im glad more and more mmo's are using the combat system of tera and some poor f2p craps aka dragon nest..time to move on of  the overated tab target system..its sooooo 2000....time to move on FINALY.

     

    Cant wait for tera as for this one....its f2p so i wont bother with it.

     



     

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Originally posted by Felconian

    All i can say is .... ROFL .. Suckers .. if you get sucked into a preorder or a ..hold on ... yes ... LIFE TIME SUB .... ROFL ..

    How many times can poeple hit there head against a wall ... and say ... Oh maybe next time it will break the wall ...lets give Cypitic another chance ...ROFL ...

    Oh how sweet all the tears are going to be when this game is launched ... and you realize its ... incomplete ...But ..But ..

    Suckers ...lol

    Did you even read the text?

    I'd suggest to search for "box is free" and "no subscription", before you call *others* suckers.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • skydiver12skydiver12 Member Posts: 432

     

    They will likely use STO's FPS mode for "action combat", Cryptic reuses everything with their engine Toolbox (even to an unhealthy ammount). By any means NW won't be a TERA clone but an advanced STO and all cryptics games clone, i would even say it's possible to keep the accounthandler and thus other features asociated to it.

     

    Wheny Cryptic announced they finally realized their engine isn't capable of real MMO Worlds and rather instanced and lobby room worthy aka "COOP PLAY", the future for NW seemed to shine bright. (Realizing your errors is the first step). Seemed like they starting to build on their strong points rather on lose term twisting of the "MMO" wording. - seemed -

    While we can't say for sure what NW will be, we can pretty much agree it won't be a seamless or really massivley World full of players. Rather chopped and instanced. On the bright side, the Instances are not limited to a "Server" Instance, so there is always a full instance or a less frequent to join. This is certainly a strong point of Cryptics way of building server architecture. So if MMO means massivley open worlds to you, this is not going to happen in NW.

    I do NOT doubt Cryptic and [Evil] Atari are capable to produce an immersive NW which definately captures the setting with eyecandy. This time they are even honest enough upfront that their lobby based "MMO" does not value a paid sub.

     

     

    My gripes are just speculations of course but mark me a branded kid, i've never seen a successfull D&D ruleset game implementation paired with "Action combat".

    - What's the use of Aiming if a role still decides if you actually hit? Feels awkward, see Hellgate and DDO for reference.

    - What we used to have a skill must be now natural, but still we have skills, see legshots and slow abilities. Aiming at the feet get's pointless. Actually aiming at all is a unecessary nuisance then, "look at the hitbox" is rather more fitting. 

    Due to this two factors, the gameplay feels disconected inbetween what you do and what you actually allowed to do, which it really is.  Which in conclusion means you either don't see the rolls behind it or you really end up with that feeling (see DDO). Which both, do not justice to the D&D ruleset.

     

    General Themepark MMO Gameplay is about smashing ability buttons with rather lenghy cooldown. 

    General Action Themepark MMO Gameplay is about smashing certain ability buttons for chain effects.

    General D&D combat is about queing abilities and bears tactical decisions limited by uses per day, not regenerating mana bars.

     

    What's a monk after you strip him of all his reflex saves and innherit resistances? A fighter with a different weapon and different base stat WIS instead of STR, but that does not do justice to the monk class and neither to D&D at all, so they will likely not remove anything of the background calculations and make your action decide the outcome with real aiming.How can it be proper "Action combat" if you still role and see combat logs which merely state that all we do is effects show with no bearing?

    How can it be proper "D&D 4th Edition" if you just button smash abilities endlessly? 

     

    In simplier terms, D&D is about character building and stats, now about whack stuff with a heavy mace and a high dex, very low str build. D&D is about using the right weapon and tactic to beat an encounter by using the RARE and limited abilities you may have, most damage is done by "Auto Attack" for physical classes- by the right weapon. Not by spamming and chaining knockdown, disarm every 10 seconds and 4 variants of super/slight/medium/heavy - hittingstrongmight attack every second.

    I just can't see it working with action combat. For someone who gives a damn about D&D and just strolls into "the next new thing labeled NW" this might does not matter, but for me it does.

    Let's just hope it does not end up like STO combat system, just because MMOs with button smashing where big back in 2010 (the ability bloating & spam in space combat), Aiming is big in 2012.

    In short a graphical blender with an awkward combat system which does not do justice to the LP.

     

    Howevery the foundry at least is a really bright spot, and really does ignite the hopes & fires of Biowares and ataris golden age when NWN + Addons (not the obsidian crap NWN2) allowed PW (Persistant Worlds)/ Instances & quests custom build by fans.

     

     

  • RasputinRasputin Member UncommonPosts: 602

    Soo... let me get this straight:

    1: The game looks like WoW, with tab-targeting, stupid monsters spawning and waiting to get killed, not posing a challenge

    2: Loading screens, which probably also means instancing, and definitely means no seamless world

    3: Not a single hint of anything persistent, hence nothing sandboxy

    4: No PvP at launch? Meaning it will be tacked on as an afterthought - and that will probably not be openworld (=anti-MMO)

    5: Solo-friendly = anti-community = anti-MMO

    6: Five-people dungeons? Seriously?

    I simply cannot see how this game distinguishes itself from anything out there. To me it looks like these guys started another WoW-clone (just without all those annoying elements that make them MMO, like persistence, massive amounts of players, seamlessness etc.), before SWTOR proved, that they are no longer wanted, and now they have to walk the line.

    I cannot see how this game even qualifies as an MMO, but I guess anything goes nowadays.

  • DragonantisDragonantis Member UncommonPosts: 974

    This is another example of why being bought by PWE really helped this development, and Neverwinter shows this more than anything, as far as I see, being under the ownership of PWE cut the shackles from Cryptics hands and they could finally go all out :) 

  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Member UncommonPosts: 486

    The graphics from the get go looked so iconic.  When I saw the screenshot of the giant spider, I said to myself "That's excactly how I always imagined a giant spider to look in D&D!".  I'm glad to see that the rest of the game might be shaping up as well.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Member UncommonPosts: 1,703

    Originally posted by Pyuk

    It's Cryptic - they'll find some way to screw it up. I'll wait until after the game ships and see what the reaction of the player base is before I get even remotely excited about this one., given Cryptic's track record.

    +1

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Member Posts: 1,832

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by Methos12




    Originally posted by Arglebargle







    This!





    Old DnDs were always a murky and haphazard hodge podge of rules. 





     





    While 4ed has things I do and don't like, it appears to be very well organized and balanced.  It does veer heavily into a tactical miniatures style of play, which might account for some folks distaste for it.   Given the intent of the 4Ed revision, it does seem perfect for a new online world. 





     





    We will see if Cryptic can actually deliver on this.  At least it won't cost much to get a lifetime subscription. 










     

    Yes, yes they were. Thing is, that's why you have a DM around to mediate and arbitrate. I appreciate what 4E did to streamline the combat flow, that is "streamlined" used in a good way and not what we gamers usually end up with, but pretty much every other aspect of the game suffered in favor of balance and accessibility.

    One of the main flaws of D&D 3.5 and before was, in the end always players were seeking one of the many special rules to destroy the plans of the DM. It was almost impossible to prevent that or to even know all of the many rules, exceptions asf. I mean, with a very, very disciplined ground you can say "I am DM, it is so because I say so and screw the books", but in reality in the 25 years I play PnP that *never* worked.


     

    Must be the groups you played with....25+ years as a GM/Player and I never ran into that issue. After-all pretty much the first rule in D&D and pretty much every other system I've seen is that the rules are only intended as guidelines...the GM is the final arbiter. My freinds and I generaly had very little tolerance for "rules lawyering".

    In one sense, I did like how 4E did attempt to organize players abilities....but the execution was just god awfull (IMO)...

    "Power of the Monkeys Butt:  Attack one opponent and if you hit give an Ally 1 healing surge and shift them 2 squares"

    Yeah, my bopping a kobold in the head with a mace is really going to heal you and teleport you 10 feet, that makes sense.

    Sorry, I like fantasy scenes you can at least visualize in a book or movie form...not stuff I'd be emberassed to put in a Saturday morning cartoon because it would even strain the credulity of the 6 year olds watching it.

     

     

     

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066

    Originally posted by albaficass

    Tera clone..nothing new to see here

    And Tera is a clone of RaiderZ,your point?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vvo-VisDoM

  • Yuk0raYuk0ra Member UncommonPosts: 35

    It's published by Perfect World.....they have the worst games ever and always screw it up. You want a real DnD mmorpg go play DDO, the next pack brings Forgotten Realms into the game.

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