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Like One Weapon? Too Bad

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  • LuxthorLuxthor Member Posts: 171

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by Luxthor



    Ok, I get it, ;) "Must using all" sound like horror without any option, but if I can develop personal style rotation and preferred range weapon or defense one with tweaked traits so that specific style wont loose full potential will be good to go.

    Ya, glad you understand it now =).

    I think we're going to see a lot of different 'valid' methods of play. Some people will make more balanced builds (have certain weapons for certain situations, and swap between them depending on the situation), while others will have more specialized builds (putting all their traits & such into a single weapon set). However, more insanely still, I think we're also going to see some players that have specialized combo builds (pumping traits into a synergy between 2 weapon sets, with the idea that they will constantly be using both in combat).

    A good example of this would be a dagger-dagger thief with shortbow offset. Use the bow to fire off some conditions on your target-> teleport shot to them and switch to dagger, stab away, stealth-retreat back out and (if they're still standing) start the rotation over again =p. Using both together will not only give you some versatility with ranged vs. melee, but also allow you stack bleeds (dots), poison, blindness, and vulnerability. All this while doing some pretty heavy damage. You also get a healing debuff from the shortbow, making any self-heals the target uses much less effective.

     

    In GW1 when you see warrior with mace or warrior with axe you know what you can expect, in GW2 you can't because combo will be stealth, sounds even better. ;) Hope I’m not on wrong track.

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • LuxthorLuxthor Member Posts: 171

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Luxthor


    Originally posted by Otakun


    Originally posted by Luxthor


    Originally posted by Golelorn


    Originally posted by heartless

    If you're not swapping weapons, you're playing the game wrong.

    That sounds horribly tedious, and I hope its not accurate.

     

    I hope too, sounds like you don't have choice at all. :[

    Not utalizing all options your character has available means you're not playing to your max potential that the designers base the class around. So, while you have a choice not to do it, you're limiting yourself.  

    So you can't choose for instance sword/mace rotation to build up personal style or for range weapon to choose between bow/gun/... if you must use everything for full potential means that every single warrior will have same game play.

    Wrong. Read; http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Traits



    I got the picture already... ;)

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • EzhaeEzhae Member UncommonPosts: 735

    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    Originally posted by heartless

    If you're not swapping weapons, you're playing the game wrong.

    God forbid people might want to specialize, or might not like the look of a weapon type.

    God forbid a game that doesn't appeal to EVERYONE.

    Want to have 4 bars of skills go play other MMOs, plenty of those on the market, WoW, ToR, Aion, AoC, WAR. Don't like the core mechanic of game - it's simple, don't play it, move on, look for other game. I don't recall anyone saying "This game will appeal to every single person on Earth"

     

  • Don-QuixoteDon-Quixote Member Posts: 87

    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Let me warn you right now, if you want to specialize, this is the wrong game. EVERYTHING about GW2 screams against specialization and leans heavily towards flexibility and balance. You can't be a pure tank/heal/dps type... instead you'll equip skills that do any combination of support, control and damage (usually more than one aspect). You can't stick with only one weapon type, attunement, etc. and be able to play to your full capabilities. Specialists will fail, and fail hard.

    Then that's back-asswards game design. Specialization should be just as viable as being a 'jack of all trades' type. If I want my thief to use dual pistols exclusively, I should be able to do so. In fact, I should be able to specialize into them to the point where more generalist characters can't use them as well as I do (which is the whole point behind specialization). The trade-off would be that I lose some utility afforded by other weapons. 

    Bottom line is, both playstyles should be viable. Arenanet may have gotten rid of the trinity, but they're still forcing people to play the game a certain way. It's the classic 'illusion' of freedom.

    Well, at this point is pretty clear that every game (even "sand-box" ones) will offer illusion of freedom.

    Still, you can specialize in GW2 the exact way you want: simply do not swap weapons. Lets say you are playing that warrior dual-wielding swords. In WvW you are defending a keep. That would be a god moment to swap to, say, a bow. But you want to be specialized in Sword Combat. So don't swap to bow and jump into the battlefield and go slash some faces. Of course the trade-off is that you lose the utility afforded by the bow.

    Actually, if you think about it, it could do for some interesting mechanic - the enemy will be expecting that you at some point swap to a different weapon (thus revealing the other half of your skills) to counter you, but you will not and she will be pressured to swap herself reveling her own skills, giving you a double advantage: knowing all of her skills and making them believe you still have another wapon ready.

    Are you gimping yourself? Yes, that's the trade-off.

    What I can gather from GW2 reviews and the like is that ArenaNet, in that illusion of freedom, is at least giving me a bit of extra freedom (it's making our cage a bit bigger for us to roam in it). It's allowing me to hide half of my skills from my enemy. The timing on disclosing them is what in my mind makes it a very interesting choice for a pvp game.

  • Don-QuixoteDon-Quixote Member Posts: 87

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    But you also have to admit, there are some posters who can't even take anything slightly negative towards GW2 without going into Don Quixote mode.

    Excuse me? ;-)

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857

    Originally posted by k-damage

    Hehehe :p I'm so glad this game will keep gear centric people away ^^

    again with this......

    I wish I had a list of all the kinds of people this has been said about.

    If we compiled that list, I wonder how many GW2 fans would actually fit in it somewhere.

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by garretth


    Originally posted by KhinRunite


    Originally posted by heartless

    If you're not swapping weapons, you're playing the game wrong.

    Actually, like the OP, I have a very specific preference when it comes to weapons. I like using Bows and Swords exclusively. If the game will require me to swap weapons to maximize my output I guess I'll play a very minor role in PvP or avoid it entirely.

    You can use bows and swords with the warrior and the ranger...not sure what else.

    Thief can use a sword/dagger combo and use a short bow. That's about it, I think.

    Also mesmer can dual wield swords or use a 2 handed sword. But no bows.

  • Spaceweed10Spaceweed10 Member Posts: 625

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

     

    The game appears to be just another dumbed down, over-hyped MMO.  Nothing really to see here.

  • davestr1zldavestr1zl Member Posts: 218

    Originally posted by heartless

    If you're not swapping weapons, you're playing the game wrong.

    Is that meant to be a good thing?

  • Games888Games888 Member Posts: 243

    If WvW is just like Daoc zerg vs zerg weapon swap isnt going to save ur azz.

  • LucioonLucioon Member UncommonPosts: 819

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    You are actually complaining that you CAN Switch weapons and get different sets of skills, and the Requirement to adapt to different situations. Really, is that your argument?

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    you haven't even played the game.  how do you know what weapon skills you do or don't like?  no it's not innovation, it's closed mindedness.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Wow I didn't expect to get such a discussion going.  I didn't mean to be troll, it is a legitamate concern, and I probably will end up passing on GW2 or waiting until I can get it for less.

    As many people have said, I don't think you should be forced to swap weapons.  If I want to play with 1 weapon set you should be able to without being greatly gimped.  People say you have to pull out a bow for ranged attacks, but thats just not being creative.  Why not have attacks where you throw your swords?

    I have been looking at Secret World since that does seem more my style, you can mix and match your skills or pick all of them from the same type, and I really like that.

    My problem is not with the fact there is only 5 skills, but the fact they never ever change.  If I choose to specialize in one weapon, it'd be nice to get advanced skills for that weapon.

    My coworker is not playing GW2 because she can't be a straight up healer.  She doesnt want to be forced to DPS or anything, she just wants to heal and you can't do that in GW2.

    There are people who like to do specific things, and GW2 forces you to do everything.  If all you can tell those people is "play a different game", alright.

    Few points:

    1) Yes, obviously swords should not be as good at ranged combat as bows or throwing axes. I mean really? Lets use some common sense here. A few classes can throw a sword like a boomerang, but this is more of an opening attack before you close the range gap. Mesmers use Greatswords entirely at range as they use it as a focus, surely that is being creative? Although for most classes essentially if you are using a sword, its because you want to be in melee range. I can guarantee that you wont be using swords for ranged combat in TSW. You'll be using magic or guns from range.

    2) There isnt 'only 5 skills'. GW2 only locks the first 5 skills based on weapon choice. With weapon swapping that becomes 10 (or 20 for Elementalists with attunement swapping). Then gives you a choice of self heal, 3 utility skill choices and 1 elite skill choice. And they do change based on your trait choices. In WoW I think I used 6 buttons total. In EQ2 and Rift I just spammed one button supermacros despite having 30+ skills. You say you are looking forward to TSW? I hate to break it to you, but you will have LESS active skills than in GW2. You only get 7 active skills at a time with TSW.

    3) Yep, if your friend wants to play the whack-a-mole healing game where you look at health bars instead of the world then GW2 is not the game for them. And correct, if you dont want to heal yourself, dodge attacks and work as a team rather than rely on a tank and healer to do everything then GW2 is not the game for you.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by remyburke

    Originally posted by heartless

    If you're not swapping weapons, you're playing the game wrong.

    I've always hated being forced to switch weapons during combat to maximize damage.

    Using just one weapon should net at least comparable DPS to frantic weapon swapping.

    The very fact that you're thinking "DPS" indicates that you're not quite familiar with the combat or general concept of GW2 at all. You can basically forget DPS in GW2. You'll never be in a situation where optimal dps will come into play. You have to think of all the aspects of combat instead... controlling the enemy with various snares, cripples, etc. Supporting allies through indirect heals or boons. Yes, doing damage as well. Positioning... if you work to a flank you may find you can do more damage. If someone is about to splatter you, DODGE! This is an active, awareness-required form of combat, so put the "DPS" idea out of your head completely. It has no value, it won't be measured, and you won't care.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    Given your post... I picked up my stapler in my office... unlached it for good measure and immediately began attempting to find a way to use it in more then five ways to bludgeon my secretary...

     

    I was unable to complete the test as the first horizontal swing knocked her out pretty good....

     

    I'll keep you all updated once she regains her composure. However, this may take awhile as I'm guessing that my vertical swing is just gonna wreck her shit. I think I could get to five if I include some kind of twirlling strike of sorts. I'll let you know. 

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    As many people have said, I don't think you should be forced to swap weapons.  If I want to play with 1 weapon set you should be able to without being greatly gimped.  People say you have to pull out a bow for ranged attacks, but thats just not being creative.  Why not have attacks where you throw your swords?

    ...

    Hmm... you may want to take a look at a greatsword mesmer. image

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    I'm pretty sure that if the OP decides to stick to dual swords and spec his traits right, he almost never feels the need to change weapons in PVE. In PVP this might be different though.

    The amount of skills is more then 10. The 5 weapon skills also contain the combat chains. Then you can change the utility skills the way you prefer.

    As for the ppl who claim that you need to switch weapons all the time. Most ppl will probably stick to two weaponsets all the time. These determine combatstyle, so the two weapon choices will be based on preference.

    I can understand though why in some MMO's you look forward to your new skills at every ding. This is mainly because combat in those cases is utterly boring.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    You are actually complaining that you CAN Switch weapons and get different sets of skills, and the Requirement to adapt to different situations. Really, is that your argument?

    His complaint is not that you CAN, but that you are FORCED to in order to not gimp yourself.

  • k-damagek-damage Member CommonPosts: 738

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by k-damage


    Hehehe :p I'm so glad this game will keep gear centric people away ^^

    again with this......

    I wish I had a list of all the kinds of people this has been said about.

    If we compiled that list, I wonder how many GW2 fans would actually fit in it somewhere.

    Note that I only mentionned gear centric people, as they will be the most unfitting ones to the game.

    It's a reality, actually people who consider gear look/stat as an essential part of MMOs will clearly flee that game like the plague.

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857

    Originally posted by k-damage

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by k-damage


    Hehehe :p I'm so glad this game will keep gear centric people away ^^

    again with this......

    I wish I had a list of all the kinds of people this has been said about.

    If we compiled that list, I wonder how many GW2 fans would actually fit in it somewhere.

    Note that I only mentionned gear centric people, as they will be the most unfitting ones to the game.

    It's a reality, actually people who consider gear look/stat as an essential part of MMOs will clearly flee that game like the plague.

    My point, and what no one seems to be considering, is the overlap.

    You are going to find many "gear centric" players who will log in to GW2 and find the game a refreshing relief that they are no longer encumbered with the gear obsession, meanwhile you will have others who are anxiously awaiting GW2 because they despised the "gear grind" and want GW2 to rescue them from that embeded mechanic only to find themselves going out of their mind because there is nothing to work for.

  • LucioonLucioon Member UncommonPosts: 819

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    You are actually complaining that you CAN Switch weapons and get different sets of skills, and the Requirement to adapt to different situations. Really, is that your argument?

    His complaint is not that you CAN, but that you are FORCED to in order to not gimp yourself.

    The main problem is GW2 and Anet in every showcase, every video and every FAQ posted, shows that Switching Weapons is a part of the Combat that they have created. But they never said that you have to. You can stick to one set of weapons if you wish. Its your Prerogative, but to be able to fully adapt to situations you will want to experiment with the different weapons.

    Rift requires you to have different souls to be fully functional, but if you just want to do one soul, you can as well. ITs not as useful but you can.

    Its one of the Main Features, if you don't like it, there really is plenty of Games out there , SWTOR, RIFT, WOW, AOC.....etc that does exactly like you like, one weapon one way of playing. Personally I enjoy the new change, and the surprises of what this other person I am fighting will be pulling out next to destroy me.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Guild Wars 2 skill system is extremely simple.  You get 5 attack skills depending on what weapon you equip.  5 skills sound lame?  Yes it does.  Don't like it?  Swap weapons and get 5 different ones.

    Personally, I like to play a warrior with duel swords. I hate clubs and 2he swords and axes, etc. You can do this in GW2, but if I do, I will be stuck with the same 5 skills the whole game.

    This is innovation? 

    Given your post... I picked up my stapler in my office... unlached it for good measure and immediately began attempting to find a way to use it in more then five ways to bludgeon my secretary...

     

    I was unable to complete the test as the first horizontal swing knocked her out pretty good....

     

    I'll keep you all updated once she regains her composure. However, this may take awhile as I'm guessing that my vertical swing is just gonna wreck her shit. I think I could get to five if I include some kind of twirlling strike of sorts. I'll let you know. 

    Thanks for that.  It's the perfect blend of reason and absurdity for this thread.

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Originally posted by k-damage

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by k-damage


    Hehehe :p I'm so glad this game will keep gear centric people away ^^

    again with this......

    I wish I had a list of all the kinds of people this has been said about.

    If we compiled that list, I wonder how many GW2 fans would actually fit in it somewhere.

    Note that I only mentionned gear centric people, as they will be the most unfitting ones to the game.

    It's a reality, actually people who consider gear look/stat as an essential part of MMOs will clearly flee that game like the plague.

    I just hope these gamers see that they aren't welcome in A-nets game before they actually buy it.  Though to be fair A-net has never been shy about telling the hardcore gearcentric raiding crowd this game is not for them.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by heartless



    After I'm done with the cash shop, I'm going to solo the Mists. People complaining about the stationary raid bosses? I'll show you a stationary raid boss alright...

    LOL.

    If I spot you, I'll have to summon you a balroc to fight. Just don't expect it to end the same way in the movies ;P

    I will be so overpowered with the unfair cash shop advantages that I will actually be able to leave the Mists, once I'm done there, and run amock in the PvE zones, demolishing all in my path, players and NPCs alike.

    How can I make sure to be on your WvW team?

    You can't. I'm going to solo WvW. Just me vs 3 servers.

    Then I guess I'm going to have to pony up $150 to buy the CE so I can win with the P2W pro elite skill and take your right out.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991

    Originally posted by nikki9786

    Wow I didn't expect to get such a discussion going.  I didn't mean to be troll, it is a legitamate concern, and I probably will end up passing on GW2 or waiting until I can get it for less.

    As many people have said, I don't think you should be forced to swap weapons.  If I want to play with 1 weapon set you should be able to without being greatly gimped.  People say you have to pull out a bow for ranged attacks, but thats just not being creative.  Why not have attacks where you throw your swords?

    I have been looking at Secret World since that does seem more my style, you can mix and match your skills or pick all of them from the same type, and I really like that.

    My problem is not with the fact there is only 5 skills, but the fact they never ever change.  If I choose to specialize in one weapon, it'd be nice to get advanced skills for that weapon.

    My coworker is not playing GW2 because she can't be a straight up healer.  She doesnt want to be forced to DPS or anything, she just wants to heal and you can't do that in GW2.

    There are people who like to do specific things, and GW2 forces you to do everything.  If all you can tell those people is "play a different game", alright.

    Like any game, it is what it is, you can't force it to be what you want it to be.

    Even in TSW you are limited to 7 active and 7 passive skills. I don't know how many of them are given per weapon type (e.g. swords) but I imagine it is also rather limited, given that abilities are tied to weapons in that game (or schools of magic) and thus even there, they expect you to use different loadouts based on circumstances. For example, I saw beta footage where they were fighting a mob in water and the melee dps was getting killed from electicity. They had to respec to a range class in order to be successful. I believe it you ONLY want to use swords in TSW you will find yourself stuck.

    Oh and by the way, there is a "sword charge" in GW2, you don't HAVE to use a bow, but it is one of those 5 active skills that you have if you don't weapon swap and that was something you didn't like so...

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

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