Sorry I think you linked the wrong thing. All I see in your link is a post regarding the sidekick function being removed in PvE situations where a lower level player is trying to complete higher level content.
Edit: i noticed the red text in my quote. What makes you say the game isn't trying to change the MMO paradigm? One of my points (and there are others I didn't list) refers to scalability of content. You rebutt that sweeping assertion by pointing out that players will not be able to sidekick up to higher level PvE content. I'm sure you realize that higher level players can access all content at any level and still be challenge (scaling) and players of any level can join WvW and have stats normalized to be competitive with higher level players (scaling) and dungeons include an explorable mode where players will have multiple routes to take through a dungeon that serves as a much more challenging and demanding PvE experience (scaling).
If you're suggesting that the removal of a sidekicking feature for low levels in higher level PvE content dismantles all of the other innovation put forth by ArenaNet in this title, I would ask that you help me understand your point of view. As it stands, I don't see the logic.
For the gazillionth time, end game starts at level 1. You'll be doing dymanic events from level 1 to max level. There are also sseveral dungeons to do. There is also pvp.
Be strong and don't get tempted by the lure of the gospel.
Here's a link to strengthen you in your resolve. All sidekicking up in PVE has been removed, so people WILL still be leveling their asses off to get access to harder, higher leveled content and progress both in the world, their level, their personal story, their abilitiies and overal WvW viability to ultimately get to 80 followed by max level optimization of their characters.
I would say that if your endgame is structured PvP (It will be for some people), then yes, endgame really is at level 1.
If endgame is WvW, you can access it at level 1, and level completely in there, so yeah, endgame is still at level 1 (If you're buffed up to level 80, you're at least useful as a decoy and to take a few hits. Better than having NO person, certainly, and you can still kill people.)
If endgame is dynamic events for you, you'll at least be getting an idae of it by level 1, though the further you go, the more you'll shift towards DEs and meta-events rather than things like heart tasks. So you'll at least be peeking at endgame by level 1, and kind of knowing how it works.
If your endgame is personal story, uhm... I dunno. I guess somebody could hit max level in other ways, and do all the end game in one huge end game rush. It's possible! Another case where you're peeking at the type of gameplay and at least seeing how it is at level 1.
If your endgame is minigames, I believe you can hit those all at level 1, since they're based out of the cities. Unless there's some in Lion's Arch, which I believe you hit around level 30 or so.
If endgame is dungeons for you, you can't even TOUCH them until level 30 (And even then, only one), and the elite ones (Which will be the serious stuff) I believe can be accessed at the same level as the story mode, though supposedly isn't designed for that level.
So 'endgame at level 1' is factual depending upon what you're looking for.
By level 30, you've pretty much been able to touch every type of gameplay in GW2 though, so your choice becomes whether or not that's appealing to you to keep playing forever. For some people it will be.
By that point, people will also have gotten traits, and can have all their skill slots filled. Level 30 you've pretty much 'made it', everything from then on is tweaking and improving and having more access to the same type of content.
OP...Do you think you should be rewarded for just participating in PvP/WvW? Should those rewards be gear based and be statistically superior to regular gear?
Does the absence of these awards give you little incentive to participate in these activities?
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
just play it and you'll see how it works. many have trouble getting their heads around the fact that you get to start having fun (raiding, pvp'ing, customizing) right at level 1. GW2's "endgame" consists of: story mode dungeons, exploration (world bosses, skill books, gear, etc.) and pvp.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
Originally posted by Spector88 I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
*sigh* As stated by other people, and in their MMO Manifesto, and on every other pointless thread like this, GW2 is striving to be a game where you don't have to hit max and be all "hardcore" in order to reach the fun stuff. It does not revolve around the sacred holy trinity or gear grind, so it cannot reasonably be so anyway.
The game has 18 dungeons of varying difficulty (from easy to brick-sh*ttingly horrifying), constantly present dynamic events, world boss-style events such as the Shatterer, and skill-based PvP where you will always be on even ground with your opponents.
PLEASE, stop asking this. Not just you OP, but everybody out there who is afraid that in this game, their "hardcore" style will not be satisfied. If you're looking for a grind-fest where all you need to do to be top dog at anything is grab the best gear and kill bosses over and over again, be our guest and go play a different MMO.
Guild Wars 2 is obviously not for you. If you WANT it to be, you need to widen your outlook on "endgame" material.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
I wasn't really into hardcore but am looking for the PvP/WvWvW! I hope to see you in game, it's nice to see a good comment!
Edit: I was drinking
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The one thing I hope is that A-net has a different End-game philosophy than what is on display in this thread. The only way to truly hold a community is to bring them together to form something greater. A lesson so many who attempt to further this genre have failed to learn. (as yoda would say) Content does not an end-game create. It's finite and offers little lasting appeal to build a community around. PVP isn't enough either.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's a completely valid question for the OP to present. This game is, in almost everyway, a paradigm shift from most MMOs. Many of the things people are skeptical of stem from the fact that they clash so completely with every intuition they've developed when it comes to MMOs.
You can kill mobs much higher level than you if you're skilled enough to literally avoid their attacks.
All content scales with player level so the challenge is always a challenge.
Classes are not subcategories of traditional archetypes, but rather represent different ways to execute the same functions (control, support, damage).
When you take something familiar, and you completely reshape it fundamentally, it's natural for many people to call it into question. I'm eager to see how the game delivers. I think change is almost always a good thing, and the potential in this game for the future of the genre is very excited. But there will always be people who don't like the changes or don't understand how this very different thing is the same as more familiar ones.
Check the link I posted in the post above yours.
Paradigm shift is off the menu.
Read your link and it'll say no sidekicking up.
You still scale.
Endgame starts at around level 30 - 35 if being literal I assume. If you really like to play pvp/wvwvw only it starts at level 2.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
I don't think you're a "hardcore" player at all. At least, not any more than I think my mother is a hardcore gamer, since she plays Hearts all day long. You, and all others who mindlessly play mmorpgs for hours on end are actually the most "casual" type of player I can imagine.
So no, GW2 is not made for you, my mother, or other casual gamers.
Its made for the real core audience, and it respects our time.
But, if you are looking for a real "hardcore" experience similar to what you've been used to, I highly recommend Hearts, since it can apparently be played for eternity without ever getting old. Or maybe Spades. Black seems more hardcore than red to me.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
I don't think you're a "hardcore" player at all. At least, not any more than I think my mother is a hardcore gamer, since she plays Hearts all day long. You, and all others who mindlessly play mmorpgs for hours on end are actually the most "casual" type of player I can imagine.
So no, GW2 is not made for you, my mother, or other casual gamers.
Its made for the real core audience, and it respects our time.
But, if you are looking for a real "hardcore" experience similar to what you've been used to, I highly recommend Hearts, since it can apparently be played for eternity without ever getting old. Or maybe Spades. Black seems more hardcore than red to me.
For the gazillionth time, end game starts at level 1. You'll be doing dymanic events from level 1 to max level. There are also sseveral dungeons to do. There is also pvp.
I warned you OP ...
Be strong and don't get tempted by the lure of the gospel.
Here's a link to strengthen you in your resolve. All sidekicking up in PVE has been removed, so people WILL still be leveling their asses off to get access to harder, higher leveled content and progress both in the world, their level, their personal story, their abilitiies and overal WvW viability to ultimately get to 80 followed by max level optimization of their characters.
But thats not the OPs problem he knows how to get to lvl 80. But after that scaling down does still leave everything open he have skipped in the race to get there. The loss of up scaling have done very little. Down scaling gives some endgame to do
if OP wants to look at what else to do - here is my suggestion on how to spend 1000 hours ingame the first year
The one thing I hope is that A-net has a different End-game philosophy than what is on display in this thread. The only way to truly hold a community is to bring them together to form something greater. A lesson so many who attempt to further this genre have failed to learn. (as yoda would say) Content does not an end-game create. It's finite and offers little lasting appeal to build a community around. PVP isn't enough either.
... and the way to do this is through social networking!
The problem with MMOs is they don't integrate facebook and Twitter and other social media types into them enough. The old ways of buliding an everlasting community are out of date. Look at the old MMOs. They're full of old communities, and they're constantly shrinking.
Some day MMOs will properly integrate people's RL-connected virtual life into it, allowing meaningful social bonds to be included!
OP you already answered your question, you said "I didn't really care for guild wars 1" , that answers that. If your expecting a huge change in the fundmentals of combat and gameplay look elswhere. In the end guild wars is what the title says. It's about guilds fighting guilds (well at least that fundemental idea) so basicly end game is pvp period. The pve content is to give the players something more to do in the game then just pvp. IE originally guild wars had actual cutscenes and more for most of their story archs.
As time progressed and people skipped these dialogs after seeing them for the 20th time. Arena Net developers said "well we saved developement time to add more content so those cutscenes are out of here!" (well ok basicly that) but point being , they cut the pve to extention for the more pvp gameplay.
Now I know the guild war fabots will rake me for this post saying this is wrong or that is wrong, but what guild wars was and what it is today is a whole new game. The one thing that remains in the game is it's title, the pvp aspects of players competing , the only issue I really have with it is , no matter how you do it , when no true skill is envloved with auto targeting as all MMO's mostly due (there are a few exceptions) it comes down to team build and organization throw in some stats as well I guess. I say I guess because many times in guild wars one I could just roll up a 20 and beat those morons easy with top level gear, you actually need some decent skill in tatics to get the game and a good team (healers ) to work with you, but in the end it's your standard pvp end game for any mmo you have played.
I will however give out kudos to the devs for the new ideas of interacting with other players on your own team to enhance combat, (IE flame + arrow = flaming arrow) but I see a huge downside to that as well. Many people I knew in guild wars one where solo players. I would say more then not, then there where guild and constant group players. I think this very mechanic will kill the game in the long run and randomly grouping with people you know will be even a harder headach when they don't sync togather in combat as an organized group will, just more emphizing the need for constant group organization.
Don't take me wrong, could be a good thing, but if history in MMO's has shown anything, people like to group with friends , but people hate being "forced" to do anything. When your game mechanic basicly forces you down a path, that path best be very flexable and at the moment, I just don't see guild wars 2 being that.
So in the end, the end game is pvp, it's organized pvp and it won't be friendly to casual and solo players. Many will argue it now, but you read it here first and maybe one day, you will remember it when it comes to fruitation which I have no doubt what so ever that it will.
Oh, I will get the game even after everything I have said, after all, it's a one time payment done thing, but in the end it will entertain me for about a month or so with my friends who will play it, but I know my friends well. They will grind grind grind, get to pvp like we always do, get to the top teir, say "Thats it?" then move to the next game. It's a given, but again at least, it's a one time fee and maybe we will go back to it more because of this very fact.
edit; typos, wall of text sorry man, read it or don't @ work so kept getting interrupted, point to it all is , the pve is not what you think it will be. It will have it's moments, but in the end guild wars is just that, Guilds fighting other Guilds in pvp combat.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
I aplaud you on your quest to get us rid of small minded ppl
The one thing I hope is that A-net has a different End-game philosophy than what is on display in this thread. The only way to truly hold a community is to bring them together to form something greater. A lesson so many who attempt to further this genre have failed to learn. (as yoda would say) Content does not an end-game create. It's finite and offers little lasting appeal to build a community around. PVP isn't enough either.
I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind tbh.
However, the 'end game' will come in the form of exploring dungeons, world vs. world, competitive pvp, meta-events (fighting the big dragons around the world), in addition to maxing out your character (grabbing any skill challenges you may have missed, gear / armor, etc.
Considering that all of that is designed to make players want to play with each other, I'd be surprised if this game didn't have a healthy 'endgame' community. Also, aside from a few asshats we see here and there, I'd say this game already has a good playerbase.
... and the way to do this is through social networking!
The problem with MMOs is they don't integrate facebook and Twitter and other social media types into them enough. The old ways of buliding an everlasting community are out of date. Look at the old MMOs. They're full of old communities, and they're constantly shrinking.
Some day MMOs will properly integrate people's RL-connected virtual life into it, allowing meaningful social bonds to be included!
It's the way of the future.
It did come up in the recent panel MMORPG posted. So it does seem to be an avenue in consideration. I'm not sold on the idea myself though. I really don't see how outside influence could effect the daily activity inside an MMO. I guess anything is worth a try though.
You may be right that many players have no desire to partake in the old ways of community building.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
No, you cannot see or understand or appreciate or want what end-game is on offer (latter is fine thats your choice, but your choice does not equal fact for all). I Started GW1 7 years ago while playing wow full time and have been at end-game (max level 20) for all that time and up to yesterday I was still playing and loving the game. GW2 is shaping up to be an GW1 expanded x-fold.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
It did come up in the recent panel MMORPG posted. So it does seem to be an avenue in consideration. I'm not sold on the idea myself though. I really don't see how outside influence could effect the daily activity inside an MMO. I guess anything is worth a try though.
You may be right that many players have no desire to partake in the old ways of community building.
I am serious that this very well may be a popular method in the future.
I am serious that game companies are certainly trying it. I am serious that it may very well turn out insanely popular.
I am not serious in one way, which is I am not really looking forward to it, nor am I sure I'd design a game that way myself (Unless I was doing it purely for the sake of trying to design a money making venture).
The sort of community I like in games just tends to be small scale stuff. Find a group of likeminded friends, maybe be in a little guild, then hand out and be freaking awesome.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
No, you cannot see or understand or appreciate or want what end-game is on offer (latter is fine thats your choice, but your choice does not equal fact for all). I Started GW1 7 years ago while playing wow full time and have been at end-game (max level 20) for all that time and up to yesterday I was still playing and loving the game. GW2 is shaping up to be an GW1 expanded x-fold.
End game is pvp, it's in the title man, sorry but even the new ideas taken from other games I might add, won't extend the pve content. In the end guild wars has and always will be a pvp oriented game.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
However, the 'end game' will come in the form of exploring dungeons, world vs. world, competitive pvp, meta-events (fighting the big dragons around the world), in addition to maxing out your character (grabbing any skill challenges you may have missed, gear / armor, etc.
Considering that all of that is designed to make players want to play with each other, I'd be surprised if this game didn't have a healthy 'endgame' community. Also, aside from a few asshats we see here and there, I'd say this game already has a good playerbase.
It's really hard to put into words, all I can say is, you know it when you see it. Games that have been successful in bringing communities together have content at end-game, so it's no surprise many think it's the content that does it. When it isn't. It's something forged on opening day that carries on until the lights go out, albeit on a shrinking basis of late. Maybe it's common ground, or even "the perfect storm" that tends to create it.
GW2 could be that perfect storm, it really hasn't happened since WOW.
In my experience I've seen it twice. DAOC, SWG, many others saw it with WOW, EQ, UO or possibly AC. I remember standing in Anchorhead after an Imperial rush a few weeks after launch in SWG, just thinking this game has something others don't, I had the same feeling in DAOC yet never since. It's the complete opposite feeling you get when stepping into something like AOC, TOR etc.. While they may be fun, there is a tension in the air, a proverbial black-cloud.
Not trying to get all poetical or anything it's just the only way to describe what I had in mind.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
No, you cannot see or understand or appreciate or want what end-game is on offer (latter is fine thats your choice, but your choice does not equal fact for all). I Started GW1 7 years ago while playing wow full time and have been at end-game (max level 20) for all that time and up to yesterday I was still playing and loving the game. GW2 is shaping up to be an GW1 expanded x-fold.
End game is pvp, it's in the title man, sorry but even the new ideas taken from other games I might add, won't extend the pve content. In the end guild wars has and always will be a pvp oriented game.
Ive spent about 1000 hours in GW1 so far and done virtually no PVP. You need to research more.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
No, you cannot see or understand or appreciate or want what end-game is on offer (latter is fine thats your choice, but your choice does not equal fact for all). I Started GW1 7 years ago while playing wow full time and have been at end-game (max level 20) for all that time and up to yesterday I was still playing and loving the game. GW2 is shaping up to be an GW1 expanded x-fold.
End game is pvp, it's in the title man, sorry but even the new ideas taken from other games I might add, won't extend the pve content. In the end guild wars has and always will be a pvp oriented game.
Ive spent about 1000 hours in GW1 so far and done virtually no PVP. You need to research more.
I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.
I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?
I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.
As a six year WoW progression guild leader (recently retired), I believe that your assessment of this game in terms of standard end-game raiding content is absolutely true. There are NO instanced 10/25 man raids like in traditional MMOs. If you are looking for a game that has a mechanism by which you group up with your guild a couple nights a week to kill the same bosses in a raid tier on an 8 month patch cycle hoping for that piece of gear that you want to randomly drop from a certain boss loot table, this is not it. I suspect that people who try buy this game looking for or expecting that environment will be sorely disappointed.
I think a lot of people have already indicated what this game does offer and its up to you to decide if this is sufficient. I read some forums on MoP still and hear people discussing their plans to hit 90 as fast as possible so they can start playing the game. I know it sounds odd, but in GW2 the journey is the game, and you find yourself doing "epic" things in the first 10 minutes of game time, all the way to 80.
In the end, you have your story mode and explorable mode 5 man instances, your outdoor "raid bosses" which spawn at the end of certain chains (though I'm not sure how many there are), your PvP, your achievements, your titles, your exporing to find hidden areas and unlock all the skill points, and of course your quest to find the perfect itemized/cosmetic gear, hopefully doing it with people you like on a server that kicks ass in WvW.
This won't be enough for some people who are used to a certain formula. It is what it is.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Comments
Sorry I think you linked the wrong thing. All I see in your link is a post regarding the sidekick function being removed in PvE situations where a lower level player is trying to complete higher level content.
Edit: i noticed the red text in my quote. What makes you say the game isn't trying to change the MMO paradigm? One of my points (and there are others I didn't list) refers to scalability of content. You rebutt that sweeping assertion by pointing out that players will not be able to sidekick up to higher level PvE content. I'm sure you realize that higher level players can access all content at any level and still be challenge (scaling) and players of any level can join WvW and have stats normalized to be competitive with higher level players (scaling) and dungeons include an explorable mode where players will have multiple routes to take through a dungeon that serves as a much more challenging and demanding PvE experience (scaling).
If you're suggesting that the removal of a sidekicking feature for low levels in higher level PvE content dismantles all of the other innovation put forth by ArenaNet in this title, I would ask that you help me understand your point of view. As it stands, I don't see the logic.
What dungeons would you be doing at level 1?
I would say that if your endgame is structured PvP (It will be for some people), then yes, endgame really is at level 1.
If endgame is WvW, you can access it at level 1, and level completely in there, so yeah, endgame is still at level 1 (If you're buffed up to level 80, you're at least useful as a decoy and to take a few hits. Better than having NO person, certainly, and you can still kill people.)
If endgame is dynamic events for you, you'll at least be getting an idae of it by level 1, though the further you go, the more you'll shift towards DEs and meta-events rather than things like heart tasks. So you'll at least be peeking at endgame by level 1, and kind of knowing how it works.
If your endgame is personal story, uhm... I dunno. I guess somebody could hit max level in other ways, and do all the end game in one huge end game rush. It's possible! Another case where you're peeking at the type of gameplay and at least seeing how it is at level 1.
If your endgame is minigames, I believe you can hit those all at level 1, since they're based out of the cities. Unless there's some in Lion's Arch, which I believe you hit around level 30 or so.
If endgame is dungeons for you, you can't even TOUCH them until level 30 (And even then, only one), and the elite ones (Which will be the serious stuff) I believe can be accessed at the same level as the story mode, though supposedly isn't designed for that level.
So 'endgame at level 1' is factual depending upon what you're looking for.
By level 30, you've pretty much been able to touch every type of gameplay in GW2 though, so your choice becomes whether or not that's appealing to you to keep playing forever. For some people it will be.
By that point, people will also have gotten traits, and can have all their skill slots filled. Level 30 you've pretty much 'made it', everything from then on is tweaking and improving and having more access to the same type of content.
OP...Do you think you should be rewarded for just participating in PvP/WvW? Should those rewards be gear based and be statistically superior to regular gear?
Does the absence of these awards give you little incentive to participate in these activities?
just play it and you'll see how it works. many have trouble getting their heads around the fact that you get to start having fun (raiding, pvp'ing, customizing) right at level 1. GW2's "endgame" consists of: story mode dungeons, exploration (world bosses, skill books, gear, etc.) and pvp.
There is no end game at all. There won't be much for you to do once you hit 80. You should probably save yourself some disappointment and steer clear, no matter how interesting it looks right now. You will tire of it quickly.
JEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSS...........................
CHRIST............................................
*sigh* As stated by other people, and in their MMO Manifesto, and on every other pointless thread like this, GW2 is striving to be a game where you don't have to hit max and be all "hardcore" in order to reach the fun stuff. It does not revolve around the sacred holy trinity or gear grind, so it cannot reasonably be so anyway.
The game has 18 dungeons of varying difficulty (from easy to brick-sh*ttingly horrifying), constantly present dynamic events, world boss-style events such as the Shatterer, and skill-based PvP where you will always be on even ground with your opponents.
PLEASE, stop asking this. Not just you OP, but everybody out there who is afraid that in this game, their "hardcore" style will not be satisfied. If you're looking for a grind-fest where all you need to do to be top dog at anything is grab the best gear and kill bosses over and over again, be our guest and go play a different MMO.
Guild Wars 2 is obviously not for you. If you WANT it to be, you need to widen your outlook on "endgame" material.
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
I wasn't really into hardcore but am looking for the PvP/WvWvW! I hope to see you in game, it's nice to see a good comment!
Edit: I was drinking
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
The one thing I hope is that A-net has a different End-game philosophy than what is on display in this thread. The only way to truly hold a community is to bring them together to form something greater. A lesson so many who attempt to further this genre have failed to learn. (as yoda would say) Content does not an end-game create. It's finite and offers little lasting appeal to build a community around. PVP isn't enough either.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Read your link and it'll say no sidekicking up.
You still scale.
Endgame starts at around level 30 - 35 if being literal I assume. If you really like to play pvp/wvwvw only it starts at level 2.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I don't think you're a "hardcore" player at all. At least, not any more than I think my mother is a hardcore gamer, since she plays Hearts all day long. You, and all others who mindlessly play mmorpgs for hours on end are actually the most "casual" type of player I can imagine.
So no, GW2 is not made for you, my mother, or other casual gamers.
Its made for the real core audience, and it respects our time.
But, if you are looking for a real "hardcore" experience similar to what you've been used to, I highly recommend Hearts, since it can apparently be played for eternity without ever getting old. Or maybe Spades. Black seems more hardcore than red to me.
LOL.......nicely written.
But thats not the OPs problem he knows how to get to lvl 80. But after that scaling down does still leave everything open he have skipped in the race to get there. The loss of up scaling have done very little. Down scaling gives some endgame to do
if OP wants to look at what else to do - here is my suggestion on how to spend 1000 hours ingame the first year
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4865078#4865078
... and the way to do this is through social networking!
The problem with MMOs is they don't integrate facebook and Twitter and other social media types into them enough. The old ways of buliding an everlasting community are out of date. Look at the old MMOs. They're full of old communities, and they're constantly shrinking.
Some day MMOs will properly integrate people's RL-connected virtual life into it, allowing meaningful social bonds to be included!
It's the way of the future.
OP you already answered your question, you said "I didn't really care for guild wars 1" , that answers that. If your expecting a huge change in the fundmentals of combat and gameplay look elswhere. In the end guild wars is what the title says. It's about guilds fighting guilds (well at least that fundemental idea) so basicly end game is pvp period. The pve content is to give the players something more to do in the game then just pvp. IE originally guild wars had actual cutscenes and more for most of their story archs.
As time progressed and people skipped these dialogs after seeing them for the 20th time. Arena Net developers said "well we saved developement time to add more content so those cutscenes are out of here!" (well ok basicly that) but point being , they cut the pve to extention for the more pvp gameplay.
Now I know the guild war fabots will rake me for this post saying this is wrong or that is wrong, but what guild wars was and what it is today is a whole new game. The one thing that remains in the game is it's title, the pvp aspects of players competing , the only issue I really have with it is , no matter how you do it , when no true skill is envloved with auto targeting as all MMO's mostly due (there are a few exceptions) it comes down to team build and organization throw in some stats as well I guess. I say I guess because many times in guild wars one I could just roll up a 20 and beat those morons easy with top level gear, you actually need some decent skill in tatics to get the game and a good team (healers
) to work with you, but in the end it's your standard pvp end game for any mmo you have played.
I will however give out kudos to the devs for the new ideas of interacting with other players on your own team to enhance combat, (IE flame + arrow = flaming arrow) but I see a huge downside to that as well. Many people I knew in guild wars one where solo players. I would say more then not, then there where guild and constant group players. I think this very mechanic will kill the game in the long run and randomly grouping with people you know will be even a harder headach when they don't sync togather in combat as an organized group will, just more emphizing the need for constant group organization.
Don't take me wrong, could be a good thing, but if history in MMO's has shown anything, people like to group with friends , but people hate being "forced" to do anything. When your game mechanic basicly forces you down a path, that path best be very flexable and at the moment, I just don't see guild wars 2 being that.
So in the end, the end game is pvp, it's organized pvp and it won't be friendly to casual and solo players. Many will argue it now, but you read it here first and maybe one day, you will remember it when it comes to fruitation which I have no doubt what so ever that it will.
Oh, I will get the game even after everything I have said, after all, it's a one time payment done thing, but in the end it will entertain me for about a month or so with my friends who will play it, but I know my friends well. They will grind grind grind, get to pvp like we always do, get to the top teir, say "Thats it?" then move to the next game. It's a given, but again at least, it's a one time fee and maybe we will go back to it more because of this very fact.
edit; typos, wall of text sorry man, read it or don't @ work so kept getting interrupted, point to it all is , the pve is not what you think it will be. It will have it's moments, but in the end guild wars is just that, Guilds fighting other Guilds in pvp combat.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I aplaud you on your quest to get us rid of small minded ppl
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind tbh.
However, the 'end game' will come in the form of exploring dungeons, world vs. world, competitive pvp, meta-events (fighting the big dragons around the world), in addition to maxing out your character (grabbing any skill challenges you may have missed, gear / armor, etc.
Considering that all of that is designed to make players want to play with each other, I'd be surprised if this game didn't have a healthy 'endgame' community. Also, aside from a few asshats we see here and there, I'd say this game already has a good playerbase.
It did come up in the recent panel MMORPG posted. So it does seem to be an avenue in consideration. I'm not sold on the idea myself though. I really don't see how outside influence could effect the daily activity inside an MMO. I guess anything is worth a try though.
You may be right that many players have no desire to partake in the old ways of community building.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No, you cannot see or understand or appreciate or want what end-game is on offer (latter is fine thats your choice, but your choice does not equal fact for all). I Started GW1 7 years ago while playing wow full time and have been at end-game (max level 20) for all that time and up to yesterday I was still playing and loving the game. GW2 is shaping up to be an GW1 expanded x-fold.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I am serious that this very well may be a popular method in the future.
I am serious that game companies are certainly trying it. I am serious that it may very well turn out insanely popular.
I am not serious in one way, which is I am not really looking forward to it, nor am I sure I'd design a game that way myself (Unless I was doing it purely for the sake of trying to design a money making venture).
The sort of community I like in games just tends to be small scale stuff. Find a group of likeminded friends, maybe be in a little guild, then hand out and be freaking awesome.
Maybe RP with some people.
End game is pvp, it's in the title man, sorry but even the new ideas taken from other games I might add, won't extend the pve content. In the end guild wars has and always will be a pvp oriented game.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
It's really hard to put into words, all I can say is, you know it when you see it. Games that have been successful in bringing communities together have content at end-game, so it's no surprise many think it's the content that does it. When it isn't. It's something forged on opening day that carries on until the lights go out, albeit on a shrinking basis of late. Maybe it's common ground, or even "the perfect storm" that tends to create it.
GW2 could be that perfect storm, it really hasn't happened since WOW.
In my experience I've seen it twice. DAOC, SWG, many others saw it with WOW, EQ, UO or possibly AC. I remember standing in Anchorhead after an Imperial rush a few weeks after launch in SWG, just thinking this game has something others don't, I had the same feeling in DAOC yet never since. It's the complete opposite feeling you get when stepping into something like AOC, TOR etc.. While they may be fun, there is a tension in the air, a proverbial black-cloud.
Not trying to get all poetical or anything it's just the only way to describe what I had in mind.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ive spent about 1000 hours in GW1 so far and done virtually no PVP. You need to research more.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Wow..boy are you missing out..
As a six year WoW progression guild leader (recently retired), I believe that your assessment of this game in terms of standard end-game raiding content is absolutely true. There are NO instanced 10/25 man raids like in traditional MMOs. If you are looking for a game that has a mechanism by which you group up with your guild a couple nights a week to kill the same bosses in a raid tier on an 8 month patch cycle hoping for that piece of gear that you want to randomly drop from a certain boss loot table, this is not it. I suspect that people who try buy this game looking for or expecting that environment will be sorely disappointed.
I think a lot of people have already indicated what this game does offer and its up to you to decide if this is sufficient. I read some forums on MoP still and hear people discussing their plans to hit 90 as fast as possible so they can start playing the game. I know it sounds odd, but in GW2 the journey is the game, and you find yourself doing "epic" things in the first 10 minutes of game time, all the way to 80.
In the end, you have your story mode and explorable mode 5 man instances, your outdoor "raid bosses" which spawn at the end of certain chains (though I'm not sure how many there are), your PvP, your achievements, your titles, your exporing to find hidden areas and unlock all the skill points, and of course your quest to find the perfect itemized/cosmetic gear, hopefully doing it with people you like on a server that kicks ass in WvW.
This won't be enough for some people who are used to a certain formula. It is what it is.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.