Every indication is that Bioware have multiple tigers by the tail, and they aren't able to deal with the situations very effectively. The lack of features and the inability to introduce content makes it seem like they fight with their own programming every day like it's reverse engineered alien technology that they barely understand.
the Mantra: It can't be done, would require a rebuild.
And I'm sure the EA LA taskmasters are not helping, but who is making this game?
They also use hype and advertising in self-destructive ways so that when they have a problem, it gets blown up into a cataclysm. They flooded the world with images and excitement, who is surprised at the reaction when the actual product doesn't live up?
It's like in the old days of video games when the picture on the box was an oil painting that was absolutely heroic, but when you put the cartridge in you got pixel men.
BW is not separate company anymore. It is a brand within EA.
BW = EA.
This
yeah it is THIS !
todays bioware is not dev team who make epic Baldurs Gate & KOTOR...
only name is rest , EA/BW making nice looking sterile SP rpg's & SP games + MP with monthly sub
Again this. This why this is a dumb thread...
Huh? EA is a much larger entity that is too spread out over many endeavors. Acute blame is on the folks who hands on make the everyday choices concerning the game. If you know of a hands-on minder that EA employs to "sweat shop" the BW folks 40 hours a week on site, then cool. But otherwise BW is the developer.
Wait, people think these mistakes are being made by EA, their publisher?
Bioware. They are now a division of EA. The developers within the Bioware division of EA are of the ones at fault for any mistakes made during developement.
How could one possibly see it any other way? Is there just residual love for Bioware and fully developed hatred for EA?
The publisher declares when you will sell the game, so no matter what the developer thinks, the plublisher wnats a finished copy on a specific day. The publisher is dealing with stock owners, and investors. The state of the game isn't important. I guarantee you there's a spreadsheet out there somewhere that shows the probability of the game stil make a profit despite it being unfinished. Something that calculate the loyalty of Star wars and Bioware fans to support an unifnished product anot care about some of the features that they left on the cutting floor.
These are not design mistakes. Creative people tend to want to have as much time as possible to complete things. PReviously, bioware spent a lot more development time on a game. EA has proven with other development houses that they keep strict schedules and will bring a game to market without features if they feel it is complete "enough". Bioware had no history of this before being purchased.
Well, six years should really be long enough for a single game.
Six years and $200 million.
If anything, people should be worshipping EA for giving them that much room to make an excellent game. If I was the CEO of EA I'd be expecting one hell of a game. I mean, what should they have done? Given them another hundred million and a year to get it done?
Anyway, I blame the developers for stuff like this. And in this case that would be the Bioware division of EA.
There have been a couple of misteps lately: the bad 1.2 patch, and the botched "valued" customer program. This appears to be because of in-experience. BW has never done a MMO before, never had to patch on the fly, never worried about keeping customers engaged for months.
So, is it BW and the fact that they are new to this MMO game? Or is is EA and some kind of meddling or mismanagement?
EA made the bad business choice as far the free month and media hyping this game like they did. Bioware cathces fault for the programming and developement. We for the most part understand the dev. teams are put under alot of pressure to get things out in a timey manner....
However that does no excuse shit coding plauged through out the entire game and then being given 3 months to put in the things you should've had in at start. Do you think they didn't already have many of these features on the burner? I mean they only announced the 1.2 update like 3 weeks after live launch.
Combined these two have achieved something that is rarely seen to the public. A complete implosion in the developement department and frenzied "response" by the publisher to cover their overall misteps and failures on the project..
Says it all..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I don't know of a major MMO that had a meltdown like SWTOR has had 4 months after it's release. But feel free to name them. NOr can I name an MMO that toted so many new innovtaions, including the legacy system, only to not have it ready at launch and to roll back on the promises of a lto of other things.
I can! Funcom's AoC and their promised DX10 graphics at launch....seige warfare...etc etc.
Right... and that's because NO other major MMO company (including all the big boys) to this day have to bring servers down and put in emergency patches after major patches and expansions...
eh yea... They're a bunch n00b programmers. *boggle*
I'm no TOR fanboi, but seriously? 99% of the people that come to these forums dont' work in the industy, yet always seem to have a "know-it-all" and "I could do better" attitude about almost everything out there.
So funny to how people Fanboi so many games then turn like rabid dogs on them in a month (just waiting for the Tera (which sucks I'm in BETA) and GW2's fall from grace).
Oh well, sorry, didn't mean to rant... but these forums need a reality check sometimes on 95% of what's said (me included, I'm not above it).
Coherency would be nice too.
I don't know of a major MMO that had a meltdown like SWTOR has had 4 months after it's release. But feel free to name them. NOr can I name an MMO that toted so many new innovtaions, including the legacy system, only to not have it ready at launch and to roll back on the promises of a lto of other things.
I can't name a design company that has had this much flack for their last 3 games. Bioware, since Ea purchased them, have gone from publishing a series of great games to publishing okay games. They are riding off of their reputation. The only thing that has changes is their purchase of EA.
Bioeware got clear feedback from its beta tests that the game felt empty, the istances wer edistracting, the game felt repetitive at later areas, grindy after the 20s. These are things that could have been staped out in a year or 2 of closed beta testing. They refused to do this.
I know we all hate wow, but wow was in development for 5 years. Gw 2 for 5 years. SWTOR 3 years. It shows.
NO other game has had a meltdown? Do you even follow the MMO industry at all? Accoding to most of the people on the forums, you could list FFIV (a years worth), AoC for not delivering, APB for closing after what? 4 months? Lord I could list more, there's a thread abou it right now with people whining.
I know we all hate wow, but wow was in development for 5 years. Gw 2 for 5 years. SWTOR 3 years. It shows.
Really? An unreleased game that everyone will turn on like they do everything else now and w0w who has never done anything innovate (stolen all their ideas) are your examples?
Warhammer (as I said in another post) though many people criticize now, brought more innovation than anything in recent times... Journal, Public Quests, Achievements, etc... You could tout AoC for it's combat system, yet it's considered a "failure" (but still up and running).
Darkfall was in development for 10 freakin years and look what people think of it.
Coherent? How about you get your head out of the sand.
I"m talking about american side games and major game releases. None of the games you metnioned had features that were left on the cutting floor and yet promised at release, and when they were introduced crashed the game. Sure, there were release problems, there's release problems with every game. But I"m talking about a major feature of a game not included in the game and when included crashes the game. That is a sign that it was never ready to go to begin with.
Every game touts a bit of innovation, still all games so far have stuck to the same combat formula. Public Quests were done by Runes of Magic before they were in Warhammer. Journals and Achievements existed in other mmos as well.
I hear Dukenuke'm was in development for 10 years too. The length of time is a factor, the strength of the publishign house is the other. When Bioware has both of those they make great games. Since they have been with EA they have had some pretty public flubs.
EA hid SWTOR as much as they could Shortened beta schedules,, features that were talked away in marketing jarb. That's why you have to love the way Anet is doing things. There's trransparancy there and they don't seem to care about what anyone wants, the game won't be out until its done.
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by dontadow
I don't know of a major MMO that had a meltdown like SWTOR has had 4 months after it's release. But feel free to name them. NOr can I name an MMO that toted so many new innovtaions, including the legacy system, only to not have it ready at launch and to roll back on the promises of a lto of other things.
I can! Funcom's AoC and their promised DX10 graphics at launch....seige warfare...etc etc.
Graphics are graphics. We're talking major features that were still marketed at launch. Siege Warefare disappeared from AOC marketing text well before release.
Right... and that's because NO other major MMO company (including all the big boys) to this day have to bring servers down and put in emergency patches after major patches and expansions...
eh yea... They're a bunch n00b programmers. *boggle*
I'm no TOR fanboi, but seriously? 99% of the people that come to these forums dont' work in the industy, yet always seem to have a "know-it-all" and "I could do better" attitude about almost everything out there.
So funny to how people Fanboi so many games then turn like rabid dogs on them in a month (just waiting for the Tera (which sucks I'm in BETA) and GW2's fall from grace).
Oh well, sorry, didn't mean to rant... but these forums need a reality check sometimes on 95% of what's said (me included, I'm not above it).
Coherency would be nice too.
I don't know of a major MMO that had a meltdown like SWTOR has had 4 months after it's release. But feel free to name them. NOr can I name an MMO that toted so many new innovtaions, including the legacy system, only to not have it ready at launch and to roll back on the promises of a lto of other things.
I can't name a design company that has had this much flack for their last 3 games. Bioware, since Ea purchased them, have gone from publishing a series of great games to publishing okay games. They are riding off of their reputation. The only thing that has changes is their purchase of EA.
Bioeware got clear feedback from its beta tests that the game felt empty, the istances wer edistracting, the game felt repetitive at later areas, grindy after the 20s. These are things that could have been staped out in a year or 2 of closed beta testing. They refused to do this.
I know we all hate wow, but wow was in development for 5 years. Gw 2 for 5 years. SWTOR 3 years. It shows.
NO other game has had a meltdown? Do you even follow the MMO industry at all? Accoding to most of the people on the forums, you could list FFIV (a years worth), AoC for not delivering, APB for closing after what? 4 months? Lord I could list more, there's a thread abou it right now with people whining.
I know we all hate wow, but wow was in development for 5 years. Gw 2 for 5 years. SWTOR 3 years. It shows.
Really? An unreleased game that everyone will turn on like they do everything else now and w0w who has never done anything innovate (stolen all their ideas) are your examples?
Warhammer (as I said in another post) though many people criticize now, brought more innovation than anything in recent times... Journal, Public Quests, Achievements, etc... You could tout AoC for it's combat system, yet it's considered a "failure" (but still up and running).
Darkfall was in development for 10 freakin years and look what people think of it.
Coherent? How about you get your head out of the sand.
I"m talking about american side games and major game releases. None of the games you metnioned had features that were left on the cutting floor and yet promised at release, and when they were introduced crashed the game. Sure, there were release problems, there's release problems with every game. But I"m talking about a major feature of a game not included in the game and when included crashes the game. That is a sign that it was never ready to go to begin with.
Every game touts a bit of innovation, still all games so far have stuck to the same combat formula. Public Quests were done by Runes of Magic before they were in Warhammer. Journals and Achievements existed in other mmos as well.
I hear Dukenuke'm was in development for 10 years too. The length of time is a factor, the strength of the publishign house is the other. When Bioware has both of those they make great games. Since they have been with EA they have had some pretty public flubs.
EA hid SWTOR as much as they could Shortened beta schedules,, features that were talked away in marketing jarb. That's why you have to love the way Anet is doing things. There's trransparancy there and they don't seem to care about what anyone wants, the game won't be out until its done.
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by dontadow
I don't know of a major MMO that had a meltdown like SWTOR has had 4 months after it's release. But feel free to name them. NOr can I name an MMO that toted so many new innovtaions, including the legacy system, only to not have it ready at launch and to roll back on the promises of a lto of other things.
I can! Funcom's AoC and their promised DX10 graphics at launch....seige warfare...etc etc.
Graphics are graphics. We're talking major features that were still marketed at launch. Siege Warefare disappeared from AOC marketing text well before release.
You're splitting hairs here. There was a LOT of outcry due to these graphics. Also, wasn't seige warfare listed as being a feature on the box? There was also a ton of other bugs that would cause your game to crash or character to become stuck (dungeons for the latter) and requiring GM intervention.
Wait, people think these mistakes are being made by EA, their publisher?
Bioware. They are now a division of EA. The developers within the Bioware division of EA are of the ones at fault for any mistakes made during developement.
How could one possibly see it any other way? Is there just residual love for Bioware and fully developed hatred for EA?
The publisher declares when you will sell the game, so no matter what the developer thinks, the plublisher wnats a finished copy on a specific day. The publisher is dealing with stock owners, and investors. The state of the game isn't important. I guarantee you there's a spreadsheet out there somewhere that shows the probability of the game stil make a profit despite it being unfinished. Something that calculate the loyalty of Star wars and Bioware fans to support an unifnished product anot care about some of the features that they left on the cutting floor.
These are not design mistakes. Creative people tend to want to have as much time as possible to complete things. PReviously, bioware spent a lot more development time on a game. EA has proven with other development houses that they keep strict schedules and will bring a game to market without features if they feel it is complete "enough". Bioware had no history of this before being purchased.
Well, six years should really be long enough for a single game.
Six years and $200 million.
If anything, people should be worshipping EA for giving them that much room to make an excellent game. If I was the CEO of EA I'd be expecting one hell of a game. I mean, what should they have done? Given them another hundred million and a year to get it done?
Anyway, I blame the developers for stuff like this. And in this case that would be the Bioware division of EA.
Six years? IT's been 3, maybe 4. The game was announced in 2008 and had been quoted as stating that only a feww months of decelopment had taken place. Thi sgame is the definition of rushed. EA bought Bioware in 2007. The game was released in 2011.
Thjis game began development well after GW2 and was released well before GW 2 . Point is you get what you put in. I just don't think Bioware wanted this game released now. But with 200 milion in debt ( a good chunk for voice acting) and two publically traded companies involved, anyone with any business sense would know that the expecations were high for this to start making money back and start making money back soon. Heck, well before it was released there were a few non-game publciation articles on if this game could eve make its money back considering it went over budget.
Six years? IT's been 3, maybe 4. The game was announced in 2008 and had been quoted as stating that only a feww months of decelopment had taken place. Thi sgame is the definition of rushed. EA bought Bioware in 2007. The game was released in 2011.
Thjis game began development well after GW2 and was released well before GW 2 . Point is you get what you put in. I just don't think Bioware wanted this game released now. But with 200 milion in debt ( a good chunk for voice acting) and two publically traded companies involved, anyone with any business sense would know that the expecations were high for this to start making money back and start making money back soon. Heck, well before it was released there were a few non-game publciation articles on if this game could eve make its money back considering it went over budget.
DONTADOW, do a little research before posting this misinformation.
Development History
BioWare began development on The Old Republic in December 2005 at a satellite studio in Austin, Texas constructed primarily for the project.
Six years? IT's been 3, maybe 4. The game was announced in 2008 and had been quoted as stating that only a feww months of decelopment had taken place. Thi sgame is the definition of rushed. EA bought Bioware in 2007. The game was released in 2011.
Thjis game began development well after GW2 and was released well before GW 2 . Point is you get what you put in. I just don't think Bioware wanted this game released now. But with 200 milion in debt ( a good chunk for voice acting) and two publically traded companies involved, anyone with any business sense would know that the expecations were high for this to start making money back and start making money back soon. Heck, well before it was released there were a few non-game publciation articles on if this game could eve make its money back considering it went over budget.
DONTADOW, do a little research before posting this misinformation.
Development History
BioWare began development on The Old Republic in December 2005 at a satellite studio in Austin, Texas constructed primarily for the project.
My bet is , in 2005 they may have began investigating design work, but the actual design and licensing was not complete until just before this announcement. EA still held key Star wars licensing and thus would have made it impossible to do seriously work on the game before negotations.
By the way, you do your research. I like to read unbiased press articles, not PR documents.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
EA and BW are now the same thing. This romantic attempt at seperating them in order to preserve some of the emotional attachment many have to the BW brand is nonsense.
BW is not separate company anymore. It is a brand within EA.
BW = EA.
^^This^^
BW are EA and they're big boys with big egos. They are accountable for SWTOR messups. Including the ones today on the 13th of April, they keep proving over and over that they are amateurs with mmos and haven't a clue how to keep one successful. Check the subs in August, it will be similar to Warhammer. BW have such big egos, they won't even merge all the dead servers. After the past 2 days messups get ready for the servers to be even more empty than before. When a game is less than 6 months old and have to start givng out free trials and free 30 days for messups, you know it's not going well. The game had potential in beta, but the devs unfortunately ignored testers opinons and feedback. They deserve to have their egos knocked to the shins as they are getting happen atm.
Comments
If you pull EA from BW what you have left is Mythic
Every indication is that Bioware have multiple tigers by the tail, and they aren't able to deal with the situations very effectively. The lack of features and the inability to introduce content makes it seem like they fight with their own programming every day like it's reverse engineered alien technology that they barely understand.
the Mantra: It can't be done, would require a rebuild.
And I'm sure the EA LA taskmasters are not helping, but who is making this game?
They also use hype and advertising in self-destructive ways so that when they have a problem, it gets blown up into a cataclysm. They flooded the world with images and excitement, who is surprised at the reaction when the actual product doesn't live up?
It's like in the old days of video games when the picture on the box was an oil painting that was absolutely heroic, but when you put the cartridge in you got pixel men.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I'd give BW most of the blame. They just don't know what they're doing.
Again this. This why this is a dumb thread...
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Huh? EA is a much larger entity that is too spread out over many endeavors. Acute blame is on the folks who hands on make the everyday choices concerning the game. If you know of a hands-on minder that EA employs to "sweat shop" the BW folks 40 hours a week on site, then cool. But otherwise BW is the developer.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Six years and $200 million.
If anything, people should be worshipping EA for giving them that much room to make an excellent game. If I was the CEO of EA I'd be expecting one hell of a game. I mean, what should they have done? Given them another hundred million and a year to get it done?
Anyway, I blame the developers for stuff like this. And in this case that would be the Bioware division of EA.
EA made the bad business choice as far the free month and media hyping this game like they did. Bioware cathces fault for the programming and developement. We for the most part understand the dev. teams are put under alot of pressure to get things out in a timey manner....
However that does no excuse shit coding plauged through out the entire game and then being given 3 months to put in the things you should've had in at start. Do you think they didn't already have many of these features on the burner? I mean they only announced the 1.2 update like 3 weeks after live launch.
Combined these two have achieved something that is rarely seen to the public. A complete implosion in the developement department and frenzied "response" by the publisher to cover their overall misteps and failures on the project..
Says it all..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I can! Funcom's AoC and their promised DX10 graphics at launch....seige warfare...etc etc.
True & simple...
I"m talking about american side games and major game releases. None of the games you metnioned had features that were left on the cutting floor and yet promised at release, and when they were introduced crashed the game. Sure, there were release problems, there's release problems with every game. But I"m talking about a major feature of a game not included in the game and when included crashes the game. That is a sign that it was never ready to go to begin with.
Every game touts a bit of innovation, still all games so far have stuck to the same combat formula. Public Quests were done by Runes of Magic before they were in Warhammer. Journals and Achievements existed in other mmos as well.
I hear Dukenuke'm was in development for 10 years too. The length of time is a factor, the strength of the publishign house is the other. When Bioware has both of those they make great games. Since they have been with EA they have had some pretty public flubs.
EA hid SWTOR as much as they could Shortened beta schedules,, features that were talked away in marketing jarb. That's why you have to love the way Anet is doing things. There's trransparancy there and they don't seem to care about what anyone wants, the game won't be out until its done.
Graphics are graphics. We're talking major features that were still marketed at launch. Siege Warefare disappeared from AOC marketing text well before release.
You're splitting hairs here. There was a LOT of outcry due to these graphics. Also, wasn't seige warfare listed as being a feature on the box? There was also a ton of other bugs that would cause your game to crash or character to become stuck (dungeons for the latter) and requiring GM intervention.
Six years? IT's been 3, maybe 4. The game was announced in 2008 and had been quoted as stating that only a feww months of decelopment had taken place. Thi sgame is the definition of rushed. EA bought Bioware in 2007. The game was released in 2011.
Thjis game began development well after GW2 and was released well before GW 2 . Point is you get what you put in. I just don't think Bioware wanted this game released now. But with 200 milion in debt ( a good chunk for voice acting) and two publically traded companies involved, anyone with any business sense would know that the expecations were high for this to start making money back and start making money back soon. Heck, well before it was released there were a few non-game publciation articles on if this game could eve make its money back considering it went over budget.
DONTADOW, do a little research before posting this misinformation.
Development History
BioWare began development on The Old Republic in December 2005 at a satellite studio in Austin, Texas constructed primarily for the project.
source: http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic
It is neither EA or BW, simply the game is not fun enough for the players, so must be the players fault.
I'm sorry , I'm gong by official reports, not their current spin. Officially they announced the game privately in 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic#Development
My bet is , in 2005 they may have began investigating design work, but the actual design and licensing was not complete until just before this announcement. EA still held key Star wars licensing and thus would have made it impossible to do seriously work on the game before negotations.
By the way, you do your research. I like to read unbiased press articles, not PR documents.
blame the victim.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
every developer that EA vaccums up with the promise of $$ dies
Just look at what used to be mythic & Origin
There isn't any victim. The OP question is setup question like do you still beat your wife.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
so your stance is what? Nothing to see here?
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
EA and BW are now the same thing. This romantic attempt at seperating them in order to preserve some of the emotional attachment many have to the BW brand is nonsense.
If you dislike EA you now should dislike BW.
Bullfrog
Umm, since when is wikipedia an "Official Report". LOL. This gets funnier and funnier...
Not only that, but look at this quote from the page:
An October 2008 preview noted some of the 12 full-time writers had been working on The Old Republic for more than two years at that point.[17]
Yeah, he clearly does not have a clue what he's talking about.
^^This^^
BW are EA and they're big boys with big egos. They are accountable for SWTOR messups. Including the ones today on the 13th of April, they keep proving over and over that they are amateurs with mmos and haven't a clue how to keep one successful. Check the subs in August, it will be similar to Warhammer. BW have such big egos, they won't even merge all the dead servers. After the past 2 days messups get ready for the servers to be even more empty than before. When a game is less than 6 months old and have to start givng out free trials and free 30 days for messups, you know it's not going well. The game had potential in beta, but the devs unfortunately ignored testers opinons and feedback. They deserve to have their egos knocked to the shins as they are getting happen atm.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot