By the way, you do your research. I like to read unbiased press articles, not PR documents.
Umm, since when is wikipedia an "Official Report". LOL. This gets funnier and funnier...
Wow, I actually was hoping you could do enoug hreserach to just go to the source which below. Many wiki articles actually do a great job of citing the source of the information. But, hey, I expect that level of research from someone who depends on the press release of the company to prove their point. By the way, the first article actually has some good quots about how bioware wanted to wait until the right partner to get going on SWTOR production, this partner being EA. So you can safely bet that the game truly be4gan design at the beginning of the negotations.
There have been a couple of misteps lately: the bad 1.2 patch, and the botched "valued" customer program. This appears to be because of in-experience. BW has never done a MMO before, never had to patch on the fly, never worried about keeping customers engaged for months.
So, is it BW and the fact that they are new to this MMO game? Or is is EA and some kind of meddling or mismanagement?
I think it's a perfect storm:
Bioware was a company that had strengths in single-character linear storytelling, and not much else (the programming and designs of everything from Kotor to Mass Effect are in fact pretty simple);
EA is not a games development company but a marketing agency that buys development companies and, by insisting they meet marketing rather than development goals, tends to destroy those companies before moving on to acquire the next company.
So we get an inexperienced development house answering to a company that's not interested in development. Now what kind of game do you think that kind of partnership is going to produce, huh?
From reading the forums over there today and a few weeks ago, you have to wonder why they would nerf healing in a time when the game is suffering subscription retainment.I knew it was PVP based before I even read the patch notes.
At some point you have to wonder what these guys are doing? I'm sure they're more compotent then I will ever be and better educated. but common sense sometimes trumps brilliant designers even if they have no concept of human nature.
have you guys seen those forums the last 4 months? at some point you gotta break down your ego and start putting a plan together before you make a run for the choppers and start nerfing the game right out of the gate due to whiners in PVP.
But the divide between those two playstyles has already started.the community which is void or small to mid sized on many servers is pretty sad for a dev company which directly said they don't want to re-invent the wheel. sad part is many spokes are missing due to pushing for a holiday release.
right now it seems legacy is something that was supposed to be included at release. it was also something that needed to be tested longer which is why i think we see this morning patch1.2a troubles.
Stuffs blowing up over there and they can blame not finshing beta....which seems to be a curse for the last SW MMO as well.
From reading the forums over there today and a few weeks ago, you have to wonder why they would nerf healing in a time when the game is suffering subscription retainment.I knew it was PVP based before I even read the patch notes.
It's because they don't understand their own game or how people play it. Healing was never the problem. The problem was that classes that could heal also had too much utility and too much damage. In a game where PVP gear trumps all, classes that can heal, do damage, and have CC are far better than everything else. It's why everyone either rolled or rerolled a Sorc before i quit.
EA care about making there big pile of cash then once they've sucked the game dry of all it's worth they abandon it and move onto the next thing. They ruined SWTOR by bossing the devs around by cutting out anything that might delay the release that EA pushed back for Christmas when they can make all there cash
When BioWare mentioned on their forums way back that they was going into partnership with EA I actualy posted a prediction as to what would happen. Kind of sad to see it come true. BioWare should of stayed with Atari as a publisher.
There have been a couple of misteps lately: the bad 1.2 patch, and the botched "valued" customer program. This appears to be because of in-experience. BW has never done a MMO before, never had to patch on the fly, never worried about keeping customers engaged for months.
So, is it BW and the fact that they are new to this MMO game? Or is is EA and some kind of meddling or mismanagement?
That right there in my opinion. People act as if this is just a thing with BioWare only because of EA, I remember a lot of games released that had the same problems that were not partnered with EA.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
As a developer myself (not in the game realm), I coined the term "crash and burn" advancement. The problem is that if you miss the schedule, or mess up, management will likely replace you with someone else who says they can do it on time.
After you've crashed and burned, you know a lot better than to commit to the impossible. But when mgmt asks if you can do it in 6 months, and you say no, it will take 12, they will likely hire someone else who says THEY can do it in 6 months. Then the cycle starts over again.
Hopefully, BW/EA won't just replace the ones who made bad commitments, and will let them use their new knowledge. And hopefully the problems aren't too built into the architecture.
Bioware haven't made a decent game since NWN 1, in my opinion.
Bingo! I totally agree. Before Bioware joined with EA they was awesome. Now, it seems their culture and ways have changed for the worse. NWN and Baldur's Gate, you can't get much better rpg than that back in the day. Why they ever changed and started doing this story mode nonsense is beyond me.
Bioware haven't made a decent game since NWN 1, in my opinion.
Bingo! I totally agree. Before Bioware joined with EA they was awesome. Now, it seems their culture and ways have changed for the worse. NWN and Baldur's Gate, you can't get much better rpg than that back in the day. Why they ever changed and started doing this story mode nonsense is beyond me.
I do not like their "story mode" games as well, I call them slightly interactive movies, but let's keep honest:
It was Bioware that started "story mode" games far before they got acquired by EA. The Bioware leadership (the Bioware founders) started this trend (the "cinematic experience") in their attempt to appeal to a broader public. And - from a business point of view - there were right in doing so because their "story mode" games proved successful in the market.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I'm not a huge EA fan, but I don't think they are to be blamed for the direction Bioware took TOR. EA gave Bioware the largest budget in gaming history.
And what did Bioware do with it? They picked a horrible game engine, made a single player RPG with co-op and tried to pass it off as an MMO, attempted to make a WoW clone with voice overs, created static worlds that appear almost dead with no day/night cycles, and created an onrails space combat.
There have been a couple of misteps lately: the bad 1.2 patch, and the botched "valued" customer program. This appears to be because of in-experience. BW has never done a MMO before, never had to patch on the fly, never worried about keeping customers engaged for months.
So, is it BW and the fact that they are new to this MMO game? Or is is EA and some kind of meddling or mismanagement?
That right there in my opinion. People act as if this is just a thing with BioWare only because of EA, I remember a lot of games released that had the same problems that were not partnered with EA.
And I remember a lot of games that were partnered with EA that did horrible.
1) Earth and Beyond - Deceased
2) Auto Assault - Deceased
3) Dark Age of Camelot - From good to bad to worthless
4) Warhammer Online - A huge letdown from the start and still a whoppin mess
5) Mass Effect 3 - This one is about 50/50 with the public
6) Star Wars: The Old Republic - A great VO PvE game that should never have even implemented PvP
Ummm Auto Assault was affiliated with NCsoft not EA and Dark Age of Camelot was a Mythick only product, it was only associated with EA after long years of development and actual gameplay. Giving credit to EA when it comes to DAoC is making EA look good, something i find abhorrent, EA had nothing to do with DAoC and its greatness or the majority of its failures.
Comments
Wow, I actually was hoping you could do enoug hreserach to just go to the source which below. Many wiki articles actually do a great job of citing the source of the information. But, hey, I expect that level of research from someone who depends on the press release of the company to prove their point. By the way, the first article actually has some good quots about how bioware wanted to wait until the right partner to get going on SWTOR production, this partner being EA. So you can safely bet that the game truly be4gan design at the beginning of the negotations.
^ Thang, Jimmy (2008-12-10). "BioWare Using Simutronics' HeroEngine for Star Wars: The Old Republic"
. IGN. Retrieved 2008-12-10.
^ "Game Update 1.2 - Legacy"
. Swtor.com. 2012-04-12. Retrieved 2012-04-12.
^ "GamesCom Highlight Video"
.
^ "Star Wars: The Old Republic | FAQ"
. Swtor.com. Retrieved 2011-12-05.
^ "LucasArts and Bioware Reveal Star Wars: The Old Republic"
(Press release). LucasArts and BioWare. 2008-10-21. Retrieved 2008-10-22.
^ "BioWare, Lucasarts Unveil Star Wars: The Old Republic"
. Game Informer. 2008-10-21. Archived from the original
on 2009-06-09. Retrieved 2011-11-13.
^ Nguyen, Thierry (2008-10-21). "Star Wars KOTOR MMO Announcement Liveblog"
. 1UP.com. Retrieved 2008-10-21.
YEs, but GAME development did not begin until shortly before hand, also quoted. Writing a story is not game development. It's not creating the parts.
I think it's a perfect storm:
Bioware was a company that had strengths in single-character linear storytelling, and not much else (the programming and designs of everything from Kotor to Mass Effect are in fact pretty simple);
EA is not a games development company but a marketing agency that buys development companies and, by insisting they meet marketing rather than development goals, tends to destroy those companies before moving on to acquire the next company.
So we get an inexperienced development house answering to a company that's not interested in development. Now what kind of game do you think that kind of partnership is going to produce, huh?
From reading the forums over there today and a few weeks ago, you have to wonder why they would nerf healing in a time when the game is suffering subscription retainment.I knew it was PVP based before I even read the patch notes.
At some point you have to wonder what these guys are doing? I'm sure they're more compotent then I will ever be and better educated. but common sense sometimes trumps brilliant designers even if they have no concept of human nature.
have you guys seen those forums the last 4 months? at some point you gotta break down your ego and start putting a plan together before you make a run for the choppers and start nerfing the game right out of the gate due to whiners in PVP.
But the divide between those two playstyles has already started.the community which is void or small to mid sized on many servers is pretty sad for a dev company which directly said they don't want to re-invent the wheel. sad part is many spokes are missing due to pushing for a holiday release.
right now it seems legacy is something that was supposed to be included at release. it was also something that needed to be tested longer which is why i think we see this morning patch1.2a troubles.
Stuffs blowing up over there and they can blame not finshing beta....which seems to be a curse for the last SW MMO as well.
EA's $$$ is amplifying BW's ineptitude
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
It's because they don't understand their own game or how people play it. Healing was never the problem. The problem was that classes that could heal also had too much utility and too much damage. In a game where PVP gear trumps all, classes that can heal, do damage, and have CC are far better than everything else. It's why everyone either rolled or rerolled a Sorc before i quit.
+1
Theres no more BW.
Just EA.
R.I.P. BW, ill still sometimes play BG
When BioWare mentioned on their forums way back that they was going into partnership with EA I actualy posted a prediction as to what would happen. Kind of sad to see it come true. BioWare should of stayed with Atari as a publisher.
That right there in my opinion. People act as if this is just a thing with BioWare only because of EA, I remember a lot of games released that had the same problems that were not partnered with EA.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Heh well you cant spell Garbage or Worthless without EA or BW.
Sad that Bioware has taken the spot that SoE once held.
Lolipops !
As a developer myself (not in the game realm), I coined the term "crash and burn" advancement. The problem is that if you miss the schedule, or mess up, management will likely replace you with someone else who says they can do it on time.
After you've crashed and burned, you know a lot better than to commit to the impossible. But when mgmt asks if you can do it in 6 months, and you say no, it will take 12, they will likely hire someone else who says THEY can do it in 6 months. Then the cycle starts over again.
Hopefully, BW/EA won't just replace the ones who made bad commitments, and will let them use their new knowledge. And hopefully the problems aren't too built into the architecture.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Bingo! I totally agree. Before Bioware joined with EA they was awesome. Now, it seems their culture and ways have changed for the worse. NWN and Baldur's Gate, you can't get much better rpg than that back in the day. Why they ever changed and started doing this story mode nonsense is beyond me.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
I do not like their "story mode" games as well, I call them slightly interactive movies, but let's keep honest:
It was Bioware that started "story mode" games far before they got acquired by EA. The Bioware leadership (the Bioware founders) started this trend (the "cinematic experience") in their attempt to appeal to a broader public. And - from a business point of view - there were right in doing so because their "story mode" games proved successful in the market.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
EA is the culprit, they were recently voted "worst company" by poll takers and it was published on all the major websites, do a google search.
Thats an easy answer. I'll answer it with another question.
How many bad or mediocre games did Bioware release prior to EA getting ahold of them?
There is no "Bioware".
There is only EAware.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I'm not a huge EA fan, but I don't think they are to be blamed for the direction Bioware took TOR. EA gave Bioware the largest budget in gaming history.
And what did Bioware do with it? They picked a horrible game engine, made a single player RPG with co-op and tried to pass it off as an MMO, attempted to make a WoW clone with voice overs, created static worlds that appear almost dead with no day/night cycles, and created an onrails space combat.
EA didn't do that. Bioware did.
Ummm Auto Assault was affiliated with NCsoft not EA and Dark Age of Camelot was a Mythick only product, it was only associated with EA after long years of development and actual gameplay. Giving credit to EA when it comes to DAoC is making EA look good, something i find abhorrent, EA had nothing to do with DAoC and its greatness or the majority of its failures.
Lolipops !