LOL, ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about Lucasarts here. LUCAS freakin' ARTS. Think about that. Does it send feelings of quality and competence through your gaming soul?
It doesn't in mine. They haven't done so for many years.
As for you OP, it will be 8-10 years before anyone tries another Star Wars MMORPG. Alot of time, hopes, and mad-serious-insane-levels-of-cash went into SWTOR. And if it fails to live up to expectations, or worse, outright die as an MMORPG, then it'll be even longer before there's another SW MMORPG. Anyways, official Star Wars gaming on average, IMHO, has been very poor for years now. Last good Star Wars game I bought was... in 2003, maybe 2004 if I'm a tad bit off.
* maniac mansion
* zack mcKracken
* indiana jones
* monkey island (series)
* x-wing / tie fighter (series)
* dark forces + jedi knight (series)
* star wars battlefront
those games do not "send feelings of competence" and actually shivers down your back??????
new gamer then i guess eh
without lucas arts gaming would be quite boring.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think Bioware will probably unveil an expansion for SWTOR next year. If they get the price structure right and keep patching game content in every few months then that is likely the next mmo in SW universe.
What's a realistic expectation for when I might be able to play the next Star Wars MMO, preferably set in the timeline of the original movies?
What will that game be like as far as design is concerned in a post-SWG, maybe post-SWTOR situation? Will they learn from the mistakes of the past?
After the awesomeness that is Kinnect Star Wars, dont expect anything that doesnt involve the empire dancing and singing about how you can hang out with all the boys if you joined them.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Prob never, at least another AAA mmo with the star wars theme. IMO, the main reason SWTOR got boring for alot of people, is that the star wars thing just isnt that compelling.
I think thats why fantasy themed mmos are so popular. everyone can get into it, its safe. think about it, how many AAA titles were really successful that werent fantasy themed. EVE is the only one that comes to mind thats still going, and only with its niche core of players.
to that end, how many IPs that weren't concocted specifically for gaming and gamers have succeeded? makes you wonder. I realize there will be a LOTRO fan who pops in and says #s != success ... I don't completely disagree ... but I also don't consider LOTRO or most other mmos real successes.
warcarft, ffx (the old mmo at least), eq, uo ... these were all IPs generated by gamers for gamers.
warhammer ... even something crafted from another game platform was a bust. swtor, lotro, even d&d titles in general which is what all of this is based on don't work.
when something has underlying mechanics not founded in computer gaming .. maybe they just dont make good mmos.
I keep reading this about the older mmos that they were created for "gamers" money wasn't as important as a good game, etc. UO was produced by origin, but at the time preducation began they had already been owned by EA for 3 years. It was the same relationship as Bioware has with EA. The original idea for Everquest came from the king of all hated moneymen on this forum, John Smedley himself. He got funding from SOE to create Verant studios which was owned entirely by SOE. So these "games for gamers" were made by some of the greediest entities in the mmo business.
Originally posted by niceguy3978 Originally posted by azmundai
Originally posted by wrightstuf Prob never, at least another AAA mmo with the star wars theme. IMO, the main reason SWTOR got boring for alot of people, is that the star wars thing just isnt that compelling. I think thats why fantasy themed mmos are so popular. everyone can get into it, its safe. think about it, how many AAA titles were really successful that werent fantasy themed. EVE is the only one that comes to mind thats still going, and only with its niche core of players.
to that end, how many IPs that weren't concocted specifically for gaming and gamers have succeeded? makes you wonder. I realize there will be a LOTRO fan who pops in and says #s != success ... I don't completely disagree ... but I also don't consider LOTRO or most other mmos real successes. warcarft, ffx (the old mmo at least), eq, uo ... these were all IPs generated by gamers for gamers. warhammer ... even something crafted from another game platform was a bust. swtor, lotro, even d&d titles in general which is what all of this is based on don't work. when something has underlying mechanics not founded in computer gaming .. maybe they just dont make good mmos. I keep reading this about the older mmos that they were created for "gamers" money wasn't as important as a good game, etc. UO was produced by origin, but at the time preducation began they had already been owned by EA for 3 years. It was the same relationship as Bioware has with EA. The original idea for Everquest came from the king of all hated moneymen on this forum, John Smedley himself. He got funding from SOE to create Verant studios which was owned entirely by SOE. So these "games for gamers" were made by some of the greediest entities in the mmo business.
I said nothing, about the greediness of the companies. The entire point I bring up is that MMOs created from gaming IPs work, which MMOs created from other IPs historically don't work out so well.
That being said, comparing the genre to a time when you were lucky to have 200k subscribers doesn't make much sense. UO was not the money grab 90% of the games that come out are today.
I agree it was never fully funded by love of the game, but the decisions about the direction of the game were. Im sure there were budgets, but aside from them offering suggestions I doubt EA had a single conversation that wen't anything like : "If we make the content stupid easy everyone and their mother will buy it" .. back then they simply had no clue what would make the most subs. They did have a pretty good clue as to what will make a good game though, and they had what? 8 Ultimas of track record and development of an original IP to go along with it.
They were making the next Ultima and innovating into technology most people would have laughed at. Big difference between that and trying to cram the Star Wars universe into Azeroth with an engine they bought and threw bandaids at.
I have no delusions that these companies are out to make money. Of course they are. I guess we have to live with the fact that immediate box sales > long term success. Sounds backwards to me .. but my degree is in anything but business.
Again though, my point is that all of the movie IPs suck as MMOs. Simple as that.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
You're never going to see a new sandbox-style Star Wars MMO. The only reason SWG was 'sandboxy' was because that's the way MMOs were when it was developed. Once LucasArts saw the "be the hero" themepark they will want all of their future products to be styled the same way. They want you to live that heroic adventure, not live your own life in the Star Wars universe.
Of course we can always hope, but in this case I don't have much of it.
Stop dreaming. MMO's as we know them may not even exist anymore :-)
this. 'true' mmo's are most likely fading away.
lobby games that require shorter game sessions to make progress are on the rise. online co-op rather than massive raids. 'insta-leveling', 'bolstering', 'endgame starts at level 1' will be the future. while many people enjoy the journey of leveling, many others see it as a neccesary annoyance to be tolerated to get to the 'good stuff'. pvp (battlegrounds and lobby games) will be more and more the main focus, rather than using resources for continual raid updates or open/persistent worlds.
sure we may still see the occasional sandbox released, the occasional themepark (where everything is a smaller scale than in the past) but it had its day. fewer and fewer people want massive time sinks.
After the total embarrassment of the NGE and The Old Republic, I doubt they will delve into the MMO realm again. If they do, we'll all be over 50 when it comes out. And when it does come out, they will probably continue to make stupid decisions, e.g., The Old Republic 2.
I grew up with Star Wars. I had all the old 80's action figures and toys. It's much different today. Now we see countless forms of cheaply made products that have licensed the Star Wars name. Try comparing the quality of a modern action figure to an 80s action figure. The difference is night and day.
Star Wars lost it's magic. It feels more and more like a cheap corporate entitiy as time goes on. It's all about $$$$$ and nothing else.
Hey now, some of us are already in that category, I'm more concerned if I'll still be alive then.
Maybe by then they can wire MMO's directly into my head?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's a realistic expectation for when I might be able to play the next Star Wars MMO, preferably set in the timeline of the original movies?
What will that game be like as far as design is concerned in a post-SWG, maybe post-SWTOR situation? Will they learn from the mistakes of the past?
Sadly, I've wondered the same question. Personally, I'd set the a Star Wars MMORPG directly after Episode VI. Give as much freedom as possible to the players, have crafting drive the economy, provide a largely sandbox Star Wars universe with many 'adventures' to discover and all sorts of dynamic events going on. The Alliance/New Republic is struggling to unify, Imperial Remnant still putting up a fight, Luke Skywalker attempting to rebuild the Jedi Order on Yavin IV... Loosely follow the stories of some of the novels such as the Thrawn trilogy.
One can dream...
That would be a good setting for the premise you state. Yes, it woudl permit much flexibility and several factions too...lets not forget the Crimelords Syndicates etc...
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Stop dreaming. MMO's as we know them may not even exist anymore :-)
this. 'true' mmo's are most likely fading away.
lobby games that require shorter game sessions to make progress are on the rise. online co-op rather than massive raids. 'insta-leveling', 'bolstering', 'endgame starts at level 1' will be the future. while many people enjoy the journey of leveling, many others see it as a neccesary annoyance to be tolerated to get to the 'good stuff'. pvp (battlegrounds and lobby games) will be more and more the main focus, rather than using resources for continual raid updates or open/persistent worlds.
sure we may still see the occasional sandbox released, the occasional themepark (where everything is a smaller scale than in the past) but it had its day. fewer and fewer people want massive time sinks.
I am inclined to agree with you, but one complicating factor is the number of complaints (and lost subscriptions) that point to vapid content as the reason for decline of SWTOR. Short and Simple = Success has failed in at least this instance.
I don't think I could do another Star Wars MMO. Unless it was literally SWG2 with Koster at the helm.
But even then, at this point I'd rather give my mmo financial support to indie devs. AAA themeparks seem to have lost their appeal to me. I cant stomach another 70+ million dollar juggernaut thats supposed to be everything to everyone. Just give me a small, dedicated virtual world that may be rough but at least knows what it is.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I think you should expect somewhere around 8 to 10 years before another Star Wars MMORPG will be released. That was the delay between SWG and SWTOR anyway. Personally, I think you should find something else to wait for instead of Star Wars.
In 8 or 10 years everyone will be all hyped for GW4 thats will be coming out
Call it "Star Bores Online"...they all are snooze fests. why should the next one, if ever, be any different. The Star Wars thing just isnt compelling enough for a good MMO
I think you should expect somewhere around 8 to 10 years before another Star Wars MMORPG will be released. That was the delay between SWG and SWTOR anyway. Personally, I think you should find something else to wait for instead of Star Wars.
In 8 or 10 years everyone will be all hyped for GW4 thats will be coming out
OP: i think removing your funding NOW from SWTOR will have a similar effect on losing 3mil subs total over a 6 month period, had on the WoW Devs last year, they actually listened to their fans for a short time. If this were to occur, if people en masse would just leave the game and let their remaining time end, it will show the devs that mmo's aren't for the devs enjoyment they are for the players' enjoyment and they might actually respond to their wallets getting smaller. It doesn't take much, just below the payback mark of the number of subs needed to remain active should do it. If everyone believes that if the Devs listened to you they will actually make the changes needed to improve the game and stop being forum nazi's for one week, then maybe they will put to use those $15 a mo subs and improve upon the game bringing it up to par with the term next gen instead of by-gone genre.
Trust me posting in the forums doesn't work. I was one of the millions that left WoW the first time (1.9 mil), that openned their eyes a lot and they actually did something for one of their biggest player base, the casual roleplayer community. Now it's not the best thing imo but they did something and people in general were happy about it being there. I'm talking mogging of course and extra storage, and altho i didn't really notice it, they claim to have fixed pets, altho DPS as BM is still lacking compared to the other two specs.
Sad that in order to make change in any company you have to make such a huge sacrifice but in order to show the devs that this game should be changed now, you have to hit them in the wallets.
I think you should expect somewhere around 8 to 10 years before another Star Wars MMORPG will be released. That was the delay between SWG and SWTOR anyway. Personally, I think you should find something else to wait for instead of Star Wars.
In 8 or 10 years everyone will be all hyped for GW4 thats will be coming out
OP: i think removing your funding NOW from SWTOR will have a similar effect on losing 3mil subs total over a 6 month period, had on the WoW Devs last year, they actually listened to their fans for a short time. If this were to occur, if people en masse would just leave the game and let their remaining time end, it will show the devs that mmo's aren't for the devs enjoyment they are for the players' enjoyment and they might actually respond to their wallets getting smaller. It doesn't take much, just below the payback mark of the number of subs needed to remain active should do it. If everyone believes that if the Devs listened to you they will actually make the changes needed to improve the game and stop being forum nazi's for one week, then maybe they will put to use those $15 a mo subs and improve upon the game bringing it up to par with the term next gen instead of by-gone genre.
Trust me posting in the forums doesn't work. I was one of the millions that left WoW the first time (1.9 mil), that openned their eyes a lot and they actually did something for one of their biggest player base, the casual roleplayer community. Now it's not the best thing imo but they did something and people in general were happy about it being there. I'm talking mogging of course and extra storage, and altho i didn't really notice it, they claim to have fixed pets, altho DPS as BM is still lacking compared to the other two specs.
Sad that in order to make change in any company you have to make such a huge sacrifice but in order to show the devs that this game should be changed now, you have to hit them in the wallets.
What's a realistic expectation for when I might be able to play the next Star Wars MMO, preferably set in the timeline of the original movies?
What will that game be like as far as design is concerned in a post-SWG, maybe post-SWTOR situation? Will they learn from the mistakes of the past?
Sadly, I've wondered the same question. Personally, I'd set the a Star Wars MMORPG directly after Episode VI. Give as much freedom as possible to the players, have crafting drive the economy, provide a largely sandbox Star Wars universe with many 'adventures' to discover and all sorts of dynamic events going on. The Alliance/New Republic is struggling to unify, Imperial Remnant still putting up a fight, Luke Skywalker attempting to rebuild the Jedi Order on Yavin IV... Loosely follow the stories of some of the novels such as the Thrawn trilogy.
One can dream...
That would be a good setting for the premise you state. Yes, it woudl permit much flexibility and several factions too...lets not forget the Crimelords Syndicates etc...
Absolutely - one of the things I tried to push for (uselessly of course) in TOR was a 'third faction' so that Bounty Hunters / Smugglers simply belonged to a morally ambiguous enterprising faction which is willing to play both sides and make a nice profit.
The amount of extra story content required however would've been way too much for BioWare and it simply wasn't their intention to have 3 factions anyway.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Comments
* maniac mansion
* zack mcKracken
* indiana jones
* monkey island (series)
* x-wing / tie fighter (series)
* dark forces + jedi knight (series)
* star wars battlefront
those games do not "send feelings of competence" and actually shivers down your back??????
new gamer then i guess eh
without lucas arts gaming would be quite boring.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think Bioware will probably unveil an expansion for SWTOR next year. If they get the price structure right and keep patching game content in every few months then that is likely the next mmo in SW universe.
After the awesomeness that is Kinnect Star Wars, dont expect anything that doesnt involve the empire dancing and singing about how you can hang out with all the boys if you joined them.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I would say 7-8 years when they close TOR.
I keep reading this about the older mmos that they were created for "gamers" money wasn't as important as a good game, etc. UO was produced by origin, but at the time preducation began they had already been owned by EA for 3 years. It was the same relationship as Bioware has with EA. The original idea for Everquest came from the king of all hated moneymen on this forum, John Smedley himself. He got funding from SOE to create Verant studios which was owned entirely by SOE. So these "games for gamers" were made by some of the greediest entities in the mmo business.
Stop dreaming. MMO's as we know them may not even exist anymore :-)
to that end, how many IPs that weren't concocted specifically for gaming and gamers have succeeded? makes you wonder. I realize there will be a LOTRO fan who pops in and says #s != success ... I don't completely disagree ... but I also don't consider LOTRO or most other mmos real successes.
warcarft, ffx (the old mmo at least), eq, uo ... these were all IPs generated by gamers for gamers.
warhammer ... even something crafted from another game platform was a bust. swtor, lotro, even d&d titles in general which is what all of this is based on don't work.
when something has underlying mechanics not founded in computer gaming .. maybe they just dont make good mmos.
I keep reading this about the older mmos that they were created for "gamers" money wasn't as important as a good game, etc. UO was produced by origin, but at the time preducation began they had already been owned by EA for 3 years. It was the same relationship as Bioware has with EA. The original idea for Everquest came from the king of all hated moneymen on this forum, John Smedley himself. He got funding from SOE to create Verant studios which was owned entirely by SOE. So these "games for gamers" were made by some of the greediest entities in the mmo business.
I said nothing, about the greediness of the companies. The entire point I bring up is that MMOs created from gaming IPs work, which MMOs created from other IPs historically don't work out so well.
That being said, comparing the genre to a time when you were lucky to have 200k subscribers doesn't make much sense. UO was not the money grab 90% of the games that come out are today.
I agree it was never fully funded by love of the game, but the decisions about the direction of the game were. Im sure there were budgets, but aside from them offering suggestions I doubt EA had a single conversation that wen't anything like : "If we make the content stupid easy everyone and their mother will buy it" .. back then they simply had no clue what would make the most subs. They did have a pretty good clue as to what will make a good game though, and they had what? 8 Ultimas of track record and development of an original IP to go along with it.
They were making the next Ultima and innovating into technology most people would have laughed at. Big difference between that and trying to cram the Star Wars universe into Azeroth with an engine they bought and threw bandaids at.
I have no delusions that these companies are out to make money. Of course they are. I guess we have to live with the fact that immediate box sales > long term success. Sounds backwards to me .. but my degree is in anything but business.
Again though, my point is that all of the movie IPs suck as MMOs. Simple as that.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
not til at least the 50 year anniversary. (crosses fingers)
I've got the straight edge.
When George Lucus says so.
MAGA
You're never going to see a new sandbox-style Star Wars MMO. The only reason SWG was 'sandboxy' was because that's the way MMOs were when it was developed. Once LucasArts saw the "be the hero" themepark they will want all of their future products to be styled the same way. They want you to live that heroic adventure, not live your own life in the Star Wars universe.
Of course we can always hope, but in this case I don't have much of it.
this. 'true' mmo's are most likely fading away.
lobby games that require shorter game sessions to make progress are on the rise. online co-op rather than massive raids. 'insta-leveling', 'bolstering', 'endgame starts at level 1' will be the future. while many people enjoy the journey of leveling, many others see it as a neccesary annoyance to be tolerated to get to the 'good stuff'. pvp (battlegrounds and lobby games) will be more and more the main focus, rather than using resources for continual raid updates or open/persistent worlds.
sure we may still see the occasional sandbox released, the occasional themepark (where everything is a smaller scale than in the past) but it had its day. fewer and fewer people want massive time sinks.
Hey now, some of us are already in that category, I'm more concerned if I'll still be alive then.
Maybe by then they can wire MMO's directly into my head?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That would be a good setting for the premise you state. Yes, it woudl permit much flexibility and several factions too...lets not forget the Crimelords Syndicates etc...
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I am inclined to agree with you, but one complicating factor is the number of complaints (and lost subscriptions) that point to vapid content as the reason for decline of SWTOR. Short and Simple = Success has failed in at least this instance.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I don't think I could do another Star Wars MMO. Unless it was literally SWG2 with Koster at the helm.
But even then, at this point I'd rather give my mmo financial support to indie devs. AAA themeparks seem to have lost their appeal to me. I cant stomach another 70+ million dollar juggernaut thats supposed to be everything to everyone. Just give me a small, dedicated virtual world that may be rough but at least knows what it is.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Amen to that.
In 8 or 10 years everyone will be all hyped for GW4 thats will be coming out
Probably 8-10 years from now at least.
Call it "Star Bores Online"...they all are snooze fests. why should the next one, if ever, be any different. The Star Wars thing just isnt compelling enough for a good MMO
OP: i think removing your funding NOW from SWTOR will have a similar effect on losing 3mil subs total over a 6 month period, had on the WoW Devs last year, they actually listened to their fans for a short time. If this were to occur, if people en masse would just leave the game and let their remaining time end, it will show the devs that mmo's aren't for the devs enjoyment they are for the players' enjoyment and they might actually respond to their wallets getting smaller. It doesn't take much, just below the payback mark of the number of subs needed to remain active should do it. If everyone believes that if the Devs listened to you they will actually make the changes needed to improve the game and stop being forum nazi's for one week, then maybe they will put to use those $15 a mo subs and improve upon the game bringing it up to par with the term next gen instead of by-gone genre.
Trust me posting in the forums doesn't work. I was one of the millions that left WoW the first time (1.9 mil), that openned their eyes a lot and they actually did something for one of their biggest player base, the casual roleplayer community. Now it's not the best thing imo but they did something and people in general were happy about it being there. I'm talking mogging of course and extra storage, and altho i didn't really notice it, they claim to have fixed pets, altho DPS as BM is still lacking compared to the other two specs.
Sad that in order to make change in any company you have to make such a huge sacrifice but in order to show the devs that this game should be changed now, you have to hit them in the wallets.
In the year 2021 SOE will announce SWG2 on their brand new game engine.
I think its safe to say that you will be flying thru space on a ship playing holo-chess with a real alien before another Star Wars MMO is released.
playing:DCUO,GW2,WoW
played:SWG,LotRO,CoH,GW,FF14,ESO,AlbionOnline
lol awesome
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
This is good advice
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Absolutely - one of the things I tried to push for (uselessly of course) in TOR was a 'third faction' so that Bounty Hunters / Smugglers simply belonged to a morally ambiguous enterprising faction which is willing to play both sides and make a nice profit.
The amount of extra story content required however would've been way too much for BioWare and it simply wasn't their intention to have 3 factions anyway.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.