"The funny thing about this thread s that the "trinity" is actually short for "the holy trinity" which is terminology that came about around the time of Everquest's fist expansion.
The Holy Trinity was Tanking (basically a warrior), Healing (cleric) and Crowd Control (also slowing, Enchanter). Monsters in everquest hit so hard and fast that a tank and a cleric weren't enough to kill them because the aggro generated from healing their obscene DPS would pull the monster onto the cleric which would then wind up killing the cleric and the rest of the group.
So basically for tough PVE content in Everquest you need those three roles filled by those three classes. There were some other classes that could fill those roles (Paladins and Shadow Knights could tank, Bards could slow and "mez" or shamans and beast lords could slow) and heal (basically druids, though other classes hand some heals).
When WoW came along, "the trinity" to tanking, healing and DPS, but originally the "trinity" was crowd control, tanking and healing - so obviously the trinity can change. Simply by controlling the difficulty level of monsters you can change the dynamic and requirements for "the trinity". You can try to make all classes capable of tanking and healing like GW2 is attempting, which probably means that the monster difficulty is pretty marginal as compared to an older game.
Still can't quite grasp the concept, eh? No worries... it takes a bit for some people.First, if you're healing, you're healing yourself.
I KNOW you heal yourself. I said I followed GW2 didn't I? Good god....
Ok.... Let's continue.
Originally posted by Volkon
it all depends on the skills you've brought plus the weapons you have. This is vastly different from hybrids, which could spec into tank role, dps role, healer role (starting at you paladins out there...).
Please. Tell me how it's different. Keep in mind not EVERY game has paladins, and "hybrid" classes behave differently in different games. So, understand, when I say hybrid, I'm talking about its relevance to THIS THREAD. I'm talking about mixing abilities of roles of the holy trinity. I'm NOT talking about WoW. Why would you assume I was?
Here are the basic roles in trinity games: DPS, Tank, Healer, CC, Support.
So EVERYONE in GW2 is a healer, their own healer.... BAM! They have abilities of the healer.
Pretty much every prof has buffs, debuffs, and skills to affect enemy movement. So nearly everyone is also Crowd control, Support, or both even.
Leaving us with DPS and Tank.
It seems some profs are more DPSy and vulnerable (like thief and elementalist maybe), and guardian is probably more defensive. But others like Warrior, can use their stance skill and switch their weapon set to go back and forth between defense (tank) and offense (DPS). Plus they can use a trait to negate any cooldown after switching weapon sets.
So I feel like this is how you could describe a GW2 party:
Member 1 = DPS, CC, Support, Healer
Member 2 = DPS, Tank, CC, Support, Healer
Member 3 = DPS, CC, Healer
Member 4 = Tank, CC, Support, Healer
(Also, 5 out of the 8 professions have pets. Just fyi)
If you read Jon Peters' little "Healing and Death" diddy. He get's into how GW2 is SO different from the trinity. But if you read between the lines, he is basically saying these things:
-Apparently we couldn't make a game where a party with two healers won't always beat a party with only one healer, and since PLAYING a HEALER is NO FUN ANYWAY, we turned healing into a hotkey.
-The Crowd Control role is SO FUN AND IMPORTANT, that we gave it to EVERYONE.
-DPS, uhhh, everyone does damage, no further comment.
-Support is like Crowd Control, it's so fun and important, so everyone can do it.
-Tank? What are you talking about?? See: "Support"
In so many words, he's telling you that since everyone does everything, the trinity is INCONCEIVABLE in GW2.
Now...... Don't get me wrong.....
I'm very excited about GW2, despite the totally detectable animosity in this post.
I'm just annoyed that GW2 devs spread disinformation. It's LIES if they tell you they did anything except give the roles of the trinity to all classes. It's like they built their frankenstein professions out of parts from lesser classes of other MMORPGs. They're still using gameplay fundamentals of trinity games. GW2 IS a game of the holy trinity.
The only disinformation is being spread in this post. Having a heal skill doesn't make you a healer... healers heal others. You're responsible for your own health primarily. There's damage, but no "dps". The rate you do damage is irrelevent in this game for what should be obvious reasons if you're familiar with the combat system. And tanking... there's no taunts, there's no one to heal you through the big blows, there's no tanking. So no, you're full of it. GW2 is most definitely not a game of the holy trinity. Support is that which boosts your allies, boons, splash heals and the like. Control is that which prevents or mitigates damage to allies. Putting up a wall to hold foes back for a few seconds, for example, is control.
When people think of the trinity, by definition they're thinking of classes with specific, specialized roles. You tank. You heal the tank. You tank the adds. You heal the off-tank and dps. The rest, don't stand in the fire and burn the boss. Hard, definite roles. You simply cannot effectively pigeon hole a character into any semblance of a role in GW2. You'll be taking with you, all at once, an assortment of skills and traits that give you all the different aspects. You'll be damaging the bad guys. You'll be controlling them to keep damage you receive down. You'll be supporting yourself and allies with boons, condition removals, etc. All on the same skill bar, often at least two of the three main aspects on the same skill.
Anyone reading this that's going to play in the beta this weekend needs to take one major thing from here with them... you cannot play this combat like you're playing MMOs with a trinity based system. It won't work. You'll be ineffective, you'll feel "off". No one's going to tank for you while you burn the mobs... they can't. No one's going to heal you while you stand in the mob's faces... they can't. Don't think of what your role is. Instead, think of what roles each of your skills performs and when the best time to use them will be. Many of these mobs will two or three shot you if you let them, so don't let them! Adjust your positioning. Keep moving. Dodge! You're temporarily invulnerable when dodging, so use it to avoid a big attack. SWAP your weapons! That's five extra skills with their own set of cooldowns and their own abilities. And lastly, keep your eyes in the fight, off your UI as much as you can. The mobs will indicate what's going to happen visually. You'll learn to recognize a big wind-up and avoid it. It takes a bit to feel comfortable, but once it does it's like an old, comfortable pair of leather gloves.
You may lose the urge to play other MMOs after this. You won't be alone. Just a friendly warning... it's worth it.
I said the healer role is a hotkey. Everyone is their own healer, so the entire role is shared by the group. How can you not understand this concept????
Here's 2 scenarios:
1: 5 ppl who CANT heal themselves and a healer. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? BY THE HEALER.
2: (This is the GW2 scenario) 5 ppl who CAN heal themselves. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? WHO????? WHO IS THE HEALER? TELL ME WHO DID IT! WHO PERPETRATED THE HEAL???? WAS IT A GHOST? According to you, Volkon, nobody healed them. Nobody clicked any skill icons. Nobody pressed any buttons on any keyboards ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE because THERE ARE NO HEALERS IN GW2.
Do you know who the healers are in GW2 yet? I hope so, because, this concept is SO important if you want to understand what I'm trying to say (not sure if you want to).
Here's the problem. I say the players are fulfilling the roles, and you say, no, no, no there is no DPS, there is no tank, there is no healer. There is only CONTROL AND SUPPORT AND SUPER NIFTY SKILLSETS.
Well, what do tanks do? They take damage.
What do DPS do? They do damage.
What do healers do? They heal the tanks.
And what can ONE player in GW2 do BY THEMSELF?
They can take damage, do damage, and heal themself. = One man trinity.
This is why GW2 devs claim it's so easy to build a group in GW2. Because it doesn't matter what profession anybody is. IT JUST DOESNT MATTER. Everyone is a walking, bipedal trinity of their own (with cc and support abilities to boot).
Even more innovative than a game without the "Holy Trinity" would be an MMORPG.com forum post without GW2 fans talking about how great it is going to be.
Whenever I think of the way combat and roles in a MMO "should be" I always think back and reference the scene in the Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring where they are in the dwarf place and fighting all the orcs/goblins and then the cave troll.
Combat is fluid, it's involved, but there are no clear cut roles but each character has a unique contribution to the battle.
Indeed. It's gotten ridiculous to the point of a whole group of players cannot even begin doing a certain quest because they lack a specific "class."
Pathetic.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
You need to go back to the early days of FFXI [not the present game] and you have what this genre needs badly and that is team work group play.I don't mean forming a group and each player acts as an invidual in that group i mean team work involving combo attacks.
This would allow players of the exact same class to play differently but be equally effective.You would have had to play FFXI's extensive combat design/structure to understand the possibilities.Example two sword players be it a tank and a warrior [doesn't matter] pull off a duo combo aka Renkai from FFXi,that results in lowering a mobs melee or elemental defense.
Then perhaps another tank type or warrior type use a different combination of weapon properties [example a fire based sword attack with a water based spear attack that results in stunning the mob for 5 seconds.Both types of combos have an effective reason use so it makes different builds important and not superficial.
It does not work with constant spam type hotbar keys like in most every game including Wow/Eq ect ect.You need something more complex and similiar to FFXI that utilized slower game play building up Tactical point [TP] bars that allowed you to utilize combo attacks.
Then you add in different types of mobs example fire based or water based ect ect,you make stats a very complex design so players/classes are not all the same.Example an accuracy build or a spike damage build or an elemental property build ect ect ,it is endless IF and only IF the developer puts the complex effort into the game design.
Any cheap developer can throw together solo content,like solo combos or spamming hotbar keys that say 200 fire damage or 200 earth damage,none of it really has any meaning if the game doesn't have the complex design.If mobs are all just basically the same then really who cares if you are doing fire damage or earth damage .If all mobs react the same to elemental and melee then really again who cares what typ of damage you are doing and then it really doesn't matter what class you are because the whole game becomes meaningless level grinding.
This forum needs a +1 button..
....Love this game sooooo much (well what it used to be)
Red mage did heals, (or whatever) and yeah the sneak/invisable combined with the fire/ice/earth attacks.. Someday..someone will remake this game. And I will play it to death.
I said the healer role is a hotkey. Everyone is their own healer, so the entire role is shared by the group. How can you not understand this concept????
Here's 2 scenarios:
1: 5 ppl who CANT heal themselves and a healer. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? BY THE HEALER.
2: (This is the GW2 scenario) 5 ppl who CAN heal themselves. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? WHO????? WHO IS THE HEALER? TELL ME WHO DID IT! WHO PERPETRATED THE HEAL???? WAS IT A GHOST? According to you, Volkon, nobody healed them. Nobody clicked any skill icons. Nobody pressed any buttons on any keyboards ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE because THERE ARE NO HEALERS IN GW2.
Do you know who the healers are in GW2 yet? I hope so, because, this concept is SO important if you want to understand what I'm trying to say (not sure if you want to).
Here's the problem. I say the players are fulfilling the roles, and you say, no, no, no there is no DPS, there is no tank, there is no healer. There is only CONTROL AND SUPPORT AND SUPER NIFTY SKILLSETS.
Well, what do tanks do? They take damage.
What do DPS do? They do damage.
What do healers do? They heal the tanks.
And what can ONE player in GW2 do BY THEMSELF?
They can take damage, do damage, and heal themself. = One man trinity.
This is why GW2 devs claim it's so easy to build a group in GW2. Because it doesn't matter what profession anybody is. IT JUST DOESNT MATTER. Everyone is a walking, bipedal trinity of their own (with cc and support abilities to boot).
OK, you're being deliberately ridiculous now. A "healer" is someone who's primary role is to heal. Others. Period. You cannot do that in GW2. Hence, no healer. Instead of there being a healer role, you're responsible for your own healing, and you can support others. This is all tied to the skills you bring, which will encompass all of the d/c/s aspects. Yes, there are no healers in GW2. You cannot be a healer and go around healing everyone. It amazes that you question my ability to grasp a concept.
Tanks. Tanks aren't simply meant to take damage, tanks hold aggro while taking the damage so no one else has to take the damage. Again, you cannot do this in GW2. You cannot taunt. You cannot take more than a couple hits without going down. I've seen plenty of raids in WoW where the dps took damage. Guess what... no one mistook them for a tank.
DPS - damage per second. If you're in a WoW raid, for example, and you're in a dps role, your damage per second better be up to snuff or you'll be finding a new raid group. In GW2 it's simply damage, not damage per unit time. That's the only differentiation I'm making with that. There's no more "per second".
If it gives you a warm and fuzzy to think everyone is a trinity unto themselves, by all means, live with your misconceptions and be happy. When you realize that the roles are now tied to your skills and not your character then your game will step up, the combat will make sense and it will flow.
And regarding the AI , most gamers just doesn't want to see the boss mobs only attack the Tank just because they called their mother fat. They want the boss mobs to neglect all others if they feel you are a threat to them and head straight toward you. From what Anet stated, if you are low in health, the mobs will notice it and will head straight toward you.
Some people won't like this. Their beloved, albeit unrealistic little system of dealing with enemies has been thrown aside for chaotic combat the likes of which would really happen if these battles were to take place. I think it's funny how people call GW2 "casual" already, when the fact of the matter is, the Trinity is the ultimate hand holding mechanic, all they do is make you memorize and give the bosses millions of HP. But when all is said and done, the Trinity makes it easy to know where you stand. Personally, I'm tired of it.
And regarding the AI , most gamers just doesn't want to see the boss mobs only attack the Tank just because they called their mother fat. They want the boss mobs to neglect all others if they feel you are a threat to them and head straight toward you. From what Anet stated, if you are low in health, the mobs will notice it and will head straight toward you.
Some people won't like this. Their beloved, albeit unrealistic little system of dealing with enemies has been thrown aside for chaotic combat the likes of which would really happen if these battles were to take place. I think it's funny how people call GW2 "casual" already, when the fact of the matter is, the Trinity is the ultimate hand holding mechanic, all they do is make you memorize and give the bosses millions of HP. But when all is said and done, the Trinity makes it easy to know where you stand. Personally, I'm tired of it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Some people won't like this. Their beloved, albeit unrealistic little system of dealing with enemies has been thrown aside for chaotic combat the likes of which would really happen if these battles were to take place. I think it's funny how people call GW2 "casual" already, when the fact of the matter is, the Trinity is the ultimate hand holding mechanic, all they do is make you memorize and give the bosses millions of HP. But when all is said and done, the Trinity makes it easy to know where you stand. Personally, I'm tired of it.
That's exactly it. The casual players that are complaining about getting groups because of the trinity, are going to find out very quickly that grouping without the trinity is More difficult not less. Maybe it took a while to sit in queue and craft while waiting for that tank and healer to show up, but once the group was made everything was golden. Nobody need to communicate, everybody knew what their roles were and they executed it and then the boss died, split loot and left. That is the ultimate system in casual grouping. It simply does not get any easier.
Now GW2 players is talking about that getting rid of the trinity will make grouping even easier, when that's not the case. People that had grew up playing MMOs where they only had to do one thing well, are going to have a difficult time grouping in GW2. Here players will be Forced to openly communicate and multitask. I can see Voice chat becoming mandatory in this game, which casual player don't like to use. Lastly without the trinity it's IMPOSSIBLE to carry weaker players, which makes pugging groups a lot more stressful, and since there's no role based system, it would be impossible to implement a dungeon queue mechanic that casual players love to use for progression.
The point is is then you remove the trinity, it makes the game less casual friendly, not more. The only solution is to either make the dungeons undertuned (4.5-man instead of 5man) so that casual players have a better shot of completing it. Or they create a pseudo-trinity where one class has the tools to specialize their class (Kiting, CC, buffs) making that class mandatory for hard-mode content, so other classes can just focus on just dps.
Some people won't like this. Their beloved, albeit unrealistic little system of dealing with enemies has been thrown aside for chaotic combat the likes of which would really happen if these battles were to take place. I think it's funny how people call GW2 "casual" already, when the fact of the matter is, the Trinity is the ultimate hand holding mechanic, all they do is make you memorize and give the bosses millions of HP. But when all is said and done, the Trinity makes it easy to know where you stand. Personally, I'm tired of it.
That's exactly it. The casual players that are complaining about getting groups because of the trinity, are going to find out very quickly that grouping without the trinity is More difficult not less. Maybe it took a while to sit in queue and craft while waiting for that tank and healer to show up, but once the group was made everything was golden. Nobody need to communicate, everybody knew what their roles were and they executed it and then the boss died, split loot and left. That is the ultimate system in casual grouping. It simply does not get any easier.
Now GW2 players is talking about that getting rid of the trinity will make grouping even easier, when that's not the case. People that had grew up playing MMOs where they only had to do one thing well, are going to have a difficult time grouping in GW2. Here players will be Forced to openly communicate and multitask. I can see Voice chat becoming mandatory in this game, which casual player don't like to use. Lastly without the trinity it's IMPOSSIBLE to carry weaker players, which makes pugging groups a lot more stressful, and since there's no role based system, it would be impossible to implement a dungeon queue mechanic that casual players love to use for progression.
The point is is then you remove the trinity, it makes the game less casual friendly, not more. The only solution is to either make the dungeons undertuned (4.5-man instead of 5man) so that casual players have a better shot of completing it. Or they create a pseudo-trinity where one class has the tools to specialize their class (Kiting, CC, buffs) making that class mandatory for hard-mode content, so other classes can just focus on just dps.
The biggest thing that happens when you lose the trinity is that you lose the script. Look at WoW raids, for example. Every single boss fight is scripted. You MUST do this or that at this time, move this way, off tank taunt on these conditions, etc. Every single one. It was so bad that for the Lich King I was watching youTube vids of the boss fights before they were even playable to the general public. You lose the trinity, you lose the script. You'll know the basic mechanics, for example the Lovers are stronger the closer they are to each other, but how you execute is up to you and the group, not a script that ANet handed out to a few choice guilds that create "how to" videos in advance.
This alone will really shake things up. Different group make-ups will be able to achieve the same goals, but will have so many different ways to do so. People will actually have to pay attention to boss fights now rather than stand in a spot and try to perfect their rotations for max. dps.
Scripted fights have nothing to do with the trinity, scripted fights have everything to do with the AI. Having more group make up diversity does mean more possibilities of approach, but there will always be Best way to deal with an encounter.
If the fight is a dps race, then the best way to handle is to have 5 dps. If the fight is melee unfriendly then fighting at range works best. If the fight has a lot of adds, then heavy CC is the best method, if the fight has no soft enrage, then strong support is the easiest solution. Yes you can bring different classes now, but the fights themselves are scripted and will handle the same way.
In fact, the fights look even more scripted in GW2 because a lot of the giant bosses look like they are completely immobile so kiting is not even an option.
I would like to know what MMOs you have played prior because I doubt that you have betad GW2. I have played several games that do not have the trinity and they all fix certain issues with the game, but they break other aspects. I don't know why you believe so strongly that GW2 is going to fix everything, and I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Comments
"The funny thing about this thread s that the "trinity" is actually short for "the holy trinity" which is terminology that came about around the time of Everquest's fist expansion.
The Holy Trinity was Tanking (basically a warrior), Healing (cleric) and Crowd Control (also slowing, Enchanter). Monsters in everquest hit so hard and fast that a tank and a cleric weren't enough to kill them because the aggro generated from healing their obscene DPS would pull the monster onto the cleric which would then wind up killing the cleric and the rest of the group.
So basically for tough PVE content in Everquest you need those three roles filled by those three classes. There were some other classes that could fill those roles (Paladins and Shadow Knights could tank, Bards could slow and "mez" or shamans and beast lords could slow) and heal (basically druids, though other classes hand some heals).
When WoW came along, "the trinity" to tanking, healing and DPS, but originally the "trinity" was crowd control, tanking and healing - so obviously the trinity can change. Simply by controlling the difficulty level of monsters you can change the dynamic and requirements for "the trinity". You can try to make all classes capable of tanking and healing like GW2 is attempting, which probably means that the monster difficulty is pretty marginal as compared to an older game.
The only disinformation is being spread in this post. Having a heal skill doesn't make you a healer... healers heal others. You're responsible for your own health primarily. There's damage, but no "dps". The rate you do damage is irrelevent in this game for what should be obvious reasons if you're familiar with the combat system. And tanking... there's no taunts, there's no one to heal you through the big blows, there's no tanking. So no, you're full of it. GW2 is most definitely not a game of the holy trinity. Support is that which boosts your allies, boons, splash heals and the like. Control is that which prevents or mitigates damage to allies. Putting up a wall to hold foes back for a few seconds, for example, is control.
When people think of the trinity, by definition they're thinking of classes with specific, specialized roles. You tank. You heal the tank. You tank the adds. You heal the off-tank and dps. The rest, don't stand in the fire and burn the boss. Hard, definite roles. You simply cannot effectively pigeon hole a character into any semblance of a role in GW2. You'll be taking with you, all at once, an assortment of skills and traits that give you all the different aspects. You'll be damaging the bad guys. You'll be controlling them to keep damage you receive down. You'll be supporting yourself and allies with boons, condition removals, etc. All on the same skill bar, often at least two of the three main aspects on the same skill.
Anyone reading this that's going to play in the beta this weekend needs to take one major thing from here with them... you cannot play this combat like you're playing MMOs with a trinity based system. It won't work. You'll be ineffective, you'll feel "off". No one's going to tank for you while you burn the mobs... they can't. No one's going to heal you while you stand in the mob's faces... they can't. Don't think of what your role is. Instead, think of what roles each of your skills performs and when the best time to use them will be. Many of these mobs will two or three shot you if you let them, so don't let them! Adjust your positioning. Keep moving. Dodge! You're temporarily invulnerable when dodging, so use it to avoid a big attack. SWAP your weapons! That's five extra skills with their own set of cooldowns and their own abilities. And lastly, keep your eyes in the fight, off your UI as much as you can. The mobs will indicate what's going to happen visually. You'll learn to recognize a big wind-up and avoid it. It takes a bit to feel comfortable, but once it does it's like an old, comfortable pair of leather gloves.
You may lose the urge to play other MMOs after this. You won't be alone. Just a friendly warning... it's worth it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I said the healer role is a hotkey. Everyone is their own healer, so the entire role is shared by the group. How can you not understand this concept????
Here's 2 scenarios:
1: 5 ppl who CANT heal themselves and a healer. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? BY THE HEALER.
2: (This is the GW2 scenario) 5 ppl who CAN heal themselves. Guess what happens? 5 ppl get healed. Healed by WHO? WHO????? WHO IS THE HEALER? TELL ME WHO DID IT! WHO PERPETRATED THE HEAL???? WAS IT A GHOST? According to you, Volkon, nobody healed them. Nobody clicked any skill icons. Nobody pressed any buttons on any keyboards ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE because THERE ARE NO HEALERS IN GW2.
Do you know who the healers are in GW2 yet? I hope so, because, this concept is SO important if you want to understand what I'm trying to say (not sure if you want to).
Here's the problem. I say the players are fulfilling the roles, and you say, no, no, no there is no DPS, there is no tank, there is no healer. There is only CONTROL AND SUPPORT AND SUPER NIFTY SKILLSETS.
Well, what do tanks do? They take damage.
What do DPS do? They do damage.
What do healers do? They heal the tanks.
And what can ONE player in GW2 do BY THEMSELF?
They can take damage, do damage, and heal themself. = One man trinity.
This is why GW2 devs claim it's so easy to build a group in GW2. Because it doesn't matter what profession anybody is. IT JUST DOESNT MATTER. Everyone is a walking, bipedal trinity of their own (with cc and support abilities to boot).
Even more innovative than a game without the "Holy Trinity" would be an MMORPG.com forum post without GW2 fans talking about how great it is going to be.
Indeed. It's gotten ridiculous to the point of a whole group of players cannot even begin doing a certain quest because they lack a specific "class."
Pathetic.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
This forum needs a +1 button..
....Love this game sooooo much (well what it used to be)
Red mage did heals, (or whatever) and yeah the sneak/invisable combined with the fire/ice/earth attacks.. Someday..someone will remake this game. And I will play it to death.
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
OK, you're being deliberately ridiculous now. A "healer" is someone who's primary role is to heal. Others. Period. You cannot do that in GW2. Hence, no healer. Instead of there being a healer role, you're responsible for your own healing, and you can support others. This is all tied to the skills you bring, which will encompass all of the d/c/s aspects. Yes, there are no healers in GW2. You cannot be a healer and go around healing everyone. It amazes that you question my ability to grasp a concept.
Tanks. Tanks aren't simply meant to take damage, tanks hold aggro while taking the damage so no one else has to take the damage. Again, you cannot do this in GW2. You cannot taunt. You cannot take more than a couple hits without going down. I've seen plenty of raids in WoW where the dps took damage. Guess what... no one mistook them for a tank.
DPS - damage per second. If you're in a WoW raid, for example, and you're in a dps role, your damage per second better be up to snuff or you'll be finding a new raid group. In GW2 it's simply damage, not damage per unit time. That's the only differentiation I'm making with that. There's no more "per second".
If it gives you a warm and fuzzy to think everyone is a trinity unto themselves, by all means, live with your misconceptions and be happy. When you realize that the roles are now tied to your skills and not your character then your game will step up, the combat will make sense and it will flow.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Just tell me who presses the button to heal your character.
Some people won't like this. Their beloved, albeit unrealistic little system of dealing with enemies has been thrown aside for chaotic combat the likes of which would really happen if these battles were to take place. I think it's funny how people call GW2 "casual" already, when the fact of the matter is, the Trinity is the ultimate hand holding mechanic, all they do is make you memorize and give the bosses millions of HP. But when all is said and done, the Trinity makes it easy to know where you stand. Personally, I'm tired of it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
That's exactly it. The casual players that are complaining about getting groups because of the trinity, are going to find out very quickly that grouping without the trinity is More difficult not less. Maybe it took a while to sit in queue and craft while waiting for that tank and healer to show up, but once the group was made everything was golden. Nobody need to communicate, everybody knew what their roles were and they executed it and then the boss died, split loot and left. That is the ultimate system in casual grouping. It simply does not get any easier.
Now GW2 players is talking about that getting rid of the trinity will make grouping even easier, when that's not the case. People that had grew up playing MMOs where they only had to do one thing well, are going to have a difficult time grouping in GW2. Here players will be Forced to openly communicate and multitask. I can see Voice chat becoming mandatory in this game, which casual player don't like to use. Lastly without the trinity it's IMPOSSIBLE to carry weaker players, which makes pugging groups a lot more stressful, and since there's no role based system, it would be impossible to implement a dungeon queue mechanic that casual players love to use for progression.
The point is is then you remove the trinity, it makes the game less casual friendly, not more. The only solution is to either make the dungeons undertuned (4.5-man instead of 5man) so that casual players have a better shot of completing it. Or they create a pseudo-trinity where one class has the tools to specialize their class (Kiting, CC, buffs) making that class mandatory for hard-mode content, so other classes can just focus on just dps.
The biggest thing that happens when you lose the trinity is that you lose the script. Look at WoW raids, for example. Every single boss fight is scripted. You MUST do this or that at this time, move this way, off tank taunt on these conditions, etc. Every single one. It was so bad that for the Lich King I was watching youTube vids of the boss fights before they were even playable to the general public. You lose the trinity, you lose the script. You'll know the basic mechanics, for example the Lovers are stronger the closer they are to each other, but how you execute is up to you and the group, not a script that ANet handed out to a few choice guilds that create "how to" videos in advance.
This alone will really shake things up. Different group make-ups will be able to achieve the same goals, but will have so many different ways to do so. People will actually have to pay attention to boss fights now rather than stand in a spot and try to perfect their rotations for max. dps.
It's going to be good.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Scripted fights have nothing to do with the trinity, scripted fights have everything to do with the AI. Having more group make up diversity does mean more possibilities of approach, but there will always be Best way to deal with an encounter.
If the fight is a dps race, then the best way to handle is to have 5 dps. If the fight is melee unfriendly then fighting at range works best. If the fight has a lot of adds, then heavy CC is the best method, if the fight has no soft enrage, then strong support is the easiest solution. Yes you can bring different classes now, but the fights themselves are scripted and will handle the same way.
In fact, the fights look even more scripted in GW2 because a lot of the giant bosses look like they are completely immobile so kiting is not even an option.
I would like to know what MMOs you have played prior because I doubt that you have betad GW2. I have played several games that do not have the trinity and they all fix certain issues with the game, but they break other aspects. I don't know why you believe so strongly that GW2 is going to fix everything, and I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.