That is a pretty amazing list, and I can see this game really might frustrate people more than they are expecting.
Don't be too amazed. That post is 5 months old, and rife with subjective argumentation. Quick breakdown:
10 - Profession overlap really isn't a problem. A warrior is going to do long range AoE damage differently than a necro; a thief has a much different toolbox than a guardian or ele. Everything can be simplified to "exactly the same", it just depends on how much reductionism you're willing to employ.
9 - Most of this is subjective, and the parts that aren't subjective (ie, "no more juking Bull's Strike") can't really be argued against until GW2 is mature enough for players to see if they can develop similarly skill-rewarding tactics. Considering the huge toolbox of skills we have to work with, I think that's a given, but either way it's not something that can be profitably argued one way or the other right now.
8 - Elites have been incredibly toned down in power. Look at Lich Form now, it's a shadow of its former self at the time that this post was made (and thank goodness...). Elites initially had CDs in the 12 minute range; now they're much less powerful, but they have CDs in the 1-3 minute range.
7 - This entire argument is based on the notion that attributes can be optimized. This remains to be seen. Even if that IS the case, how is that different than GW1, or indeed any other competitive game with stats? The weapons argument is bunk; building a universal bar in GW1 was impossible because the skills were so narrow in function, and the difference between one skill and another was often small but important. GW2 weapon skills are NOT your entire build, and they're designed to be at least somewhat useful in every situation. Traits are given two sentences worth of mention; since this article was written, the new trait system has been rolled out, and it provides a ton of build-making opportunity.
6 - He cites a number of problems with the capture point format, and frankly this deserves its own thread. I don't agree with the people who think CP is a terrible competitive PvP format; I think it'll accomplish the goal of getting people to fight at centralized locations while still rewarding large-scale mobility and split tactics that GW1 GvG did well. I also think it'll be more easy to pick up and learn than GvG, which is important to getting new blood into the format. I DO wish, hope, and think that they'll add more formats to competitive PvP in the future.
5 - Uh....this is flat out stupid. GW2 has probably four more keys necessary than GW1: skills 9 and 0, your dodge, and your weapon swap. F1 - F4 were used for weapon swaps in GW1, and everything else (tab, ctrl, etc) is basically exactly the same.
4 - Again, fucking stupid. First off, GW2 does an amazing job of targeting the player / enemy that you're attacking without you ever clicking on them or pressing tab; just start wailing on him with your attack skills (aimed, naturally), and you'll auto-target. Secondly, seriously, how is this different than GW1? If you want to target something, you click it!
3 - People learned animations in GW1, they'll learn them in GW2. The giant red circles of death are a pretty easy indicator for you to NOT STAND HERE, honestly. Professions WILL be more difficult to determine, yes, but that'll only last for the first 5 seconds of a match. The redundancy question with conditions has been solved by the recent boon and condition revamp, and conditions are really quite easy to spot visually without looking at healthbars.
2 - Yeah, they know the particle efffects are a bit much. Expect them to be turned down, and expect them to give you a slider to allow you to turn them down further. Health is pretty darn easy to see, in practice, because that health orb is glowing and animating as you lose health.
1 - Monotonous skill design...you're looking at these skills incorrectly. You can't one-for-one compare GW1 skills to GW2 skills. In GW1, skills were pretty much ALL you could do. Yeah, you could move around a bit, but for the most part everything useful was done via skills. You are required to move and think about your positioning SO much more in GW2 (and I'm just talking PvE here; NOBODY has enough experience with GW2 PvP to do a fair comparison). Splitblade is not just "projectile damage in an area"; you need to AIM that thing, you need to use it at the proper range and from the right angle to hit the right number of people / mobs, you need to decide if you want to use it as a ranged AoE or as a single-target shotgun bleed applicator. In GW1, "ranged AoE damage" is a fireball. Those kind of "fire and forget" simple skills are your "1" skills. Everything else can pretty much be spammed on recharge for some useful effect, OR they can be used properly for much greater effect. The only skill on a ranger's axe + warhorn set that might use some spicing up is Hunter's Call, because it's really just a simple DoT and it could really use some additional control effect (at least a blind).
I totally agree that playing with opportunity costs should be a thing...but they already do that. Mesmer mantras, channeled skills (god help you if you use one of these right before you need to dodge, you just completely wasted that skill), stances and other buffs with incredibly short effects, signets that turn off their passive buffs when you activate them, skills that have an additional effect on a succesful block, weapon skills on 30s+ recharges, weapon skills that have additional effects if you hit from behind or the side, etc, etc...there are plenty of ways in which they reward proper skill use through opportunity costs.
TL;DR: it's a huge theorycrafting post that is equal parts outdated, subjective, and speculation.
Most of those points aren't even relevant anymore, if they were at all relevant to begin w/. That's the problem with Theorycrafting on a game that isn't accessible yet.
That link was made November 2011, we are now getting to the end of April 2012, and with the game actually having been play tested. Most of that stuff just doesn't apply anymore.
If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each? The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.
I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is.
You want someone to dig up 15 threads for you just to prove a point? They are there (all you have to do is look through the GW2 search history), however that is still a lot of pages to go through as there's usually a dozen or so new threads updated daily.
- These are all taken from these forums alone. You are aware of the fact that this is not the only MMO forums on the net, and there are others with just as many if not more people posting every day.
Already the first of those links is disqualified since the opening post in it is merely asking how GW2's endgame will look like; it is not argueing that GW2 is bad because of its endgame.
Which brings me back to the point: the whole article is a straw man because it heavily modifies the actual points and then replies to those heavily modified points rather than to the actual ones.
There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
The combat is too hard!
There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!
Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
The article didn't impress me. These areguemtns aren't really valid ones. The article was meant to grab people who are in dount and sell them on why they should play. That's fine and all, but the arguemtns themselves are not real ones but rather strawman. Most of those "arguemtns" aren't really unique to GW2. But rather they are just features of the game. As someone said, they are the reasons to play. Which, is the intent of the article in the 1st place.
These are all arguements against the game that we have seen pretty damn often over the past six months. No matter how many holes are poked in them, they return. I thinks it's appropriate to gather some of them up into one article and provide a succinct, fact based rebuttal.
There are a number of other misconceptions that could be discussed as well. When a game has as many design differences vs. the status quo as GW2 does, continually addressing these things is useful, espescially since we are seeing more and more people who are new to the game starting to take an interest.
If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each? The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.
I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is.
Anyone who has been around discussions of the game long enough has seen all of these arguments. The "too difficult" arguement is the hardest one to find stated outright, because most people ren't going to admit they fear something is too difficult, but there definitely was a lot of concern about difficulty when the press beta dungeon videos showed some examples of continuous wipes in story mode the easier mode) of the first dungeon.
I've seen them all, I've countered them all.
Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable.
Is a spurious allegation of a "straw man" arguement itself a straw man arguement in and of itself?
Already the first of those links is disqualified since the opening post in it is merely asking how GW2's endgame will look like; it is not argueing that GW2 is bad because of its endgame.
Which brings me back to the point: the whole article is a straw man because it heavily modifies the actual points and then replies to those heavily modified points rather than to the actual ones.
Lol, again.. I'm not doing your work for you. (And it doesn't seem like you have any intention of doing it either). Anyone with eyes that has been on this forums for more than a week has seen these issues over and over. If you don't, well then I guess i'm happy for you, because it's been the bane of most of us on these forums. Kind of relentless to tell you the truth. Not all of those threads were started to complain about endgame, but all of them contain endgame complaints within them. Furthermore, while looking for those I came across others that were just as bad.
Again, asking for someone to dig up 15 separate threads for you to prove a point is ridiculous. You better have some damned good cookies if you want that outa someone.
5. It's fans are like WoW fans, except they defended the game as the greatest thing ever before it was in early beta.
No, I'd say it's in mid-beta now. It wasn't that great in early beta, but you're right, now it's the greatest thing ever. EVER. I can't wait to rub my face on the screen when it loads up.
If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each? The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.
I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is.
You want someone to dig up 15 threads for you just to prove a point? They are there (all you have to do is look through the GW2 search history), however that is still a lot of pages to go through as there's usually a dozen or so new threads updated daily.
- These are all taken from these forums alone. You are aware of the fact that this is not the only MMO forums on the net, and there are others with just as many if not more people posting every day.
Already the first of those links is disqualified since the opening post in it is merely asking how GW2's endgame will look like; it is not argueing that GW2 is bad because of its endgame.
Which brings me back to the point: the whole article is a straw man because it heavily modifies the actual points and then replies to those heavily modified points rather than to the actual ones.
This is why I didn't fall for your little game. I'm not going to argue over whether or not x post in y thread equals z posited flaw.
People who have followed the game know these arguements have been raised. Even people more recent to following the game can see that these are all things that one might expect to have been raised as issues. I can't prove that you actually know these issues have been raised, but let's just say that I honestly doubt your sincerity.
The article still raises a lot of common/easy misconceptions about the game and addresses them. Not sure why you find that so threatening, but you must have some motivation for attacking something so self evident.
If you have a different list, go ahead and list them and we can discuss the issues you raise. Your current tack is pointless.
I pre-purchased the game, have had extensive hands on available with it and honestly...I'm excited that everyone is finally going to try it themselves instead of relying on press videos or watching screenshots taken at favourable angles.
I'm going to love reading the comments and see the preachy, sanctimonious ones kick their defense into overdrive, in the wake of the event weekend.
You'll get no sympathy from me. We've been down this road before but some never learn.
However, first up is feedback following this weekend's Tera open beta, so we'll see how that goes eh?
And what does that have to do with GW2?
I believe he is implying that the only reason you're on this part of the forums making such vauge comments about how many are going to be dissapointed with GW2 is because you favor another game, said game being Tera.
To emphasize this on the Tera forums you are asking people not to come to the forums and complain or cry if they are dissapointed. Here you seem to be awaiting such a response from those that are excited about GW2.
And I already know you will attempt to come back and say "But I've said good stuff about GW2 and I pre-purchased it so you're way off base" but things like the above that I pointed out in your post history show otherwise.
There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
The combat is too hard!
There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!
Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
The article didn't impress me. These areguemtns aren't really valid ones. The article was meant to grab people who are in dount and sell them on why they should play. That's fine and all, but the arguemtns themselves are not real ones but rather strawman. Most of those "arguemtns" aren't really unique to GW2. But rather they are just features of the game. As someone said, they are the reasons to play. Which, is the intent of the article in the 1st place.
These are all arguements against the game that we have seen pretty damn often over the past six months. No matter how many holes are poked in them, they return. I thinks it's appropriate to gather some of them up into one article and provide a succinct, fact based rebuttal.
There are a number of other misconceptions that could be discussed as well. When a game has as many design differences vs. the status quo as GW2 does, continually addressing these things is useful, espescially since we are seeing more and more people who are new to the game starting to take an interest.
If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each? The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.
I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is.
Anyone who has been around discussions of the game long enough has seen all of these arguments. The "too difficult" arguement is the hardest one to find stated outright, because most people ren't going to admit they fear something is too difficult, but there definitely was a lot of concern about difficulty when the press beta dungeon videos showed some examples of continuous wipes in story mode the easier mode) of the first dungeon.
I've seen them all, I've countered them all.
Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable.
Is a spurious allegation of a "straw man" arguement itself a straw man arguement in and of itself?
It isn't enough that one person has mentioned something related to the topic: they have to be against GW2 and they have to be common. Those are two conditions which would not be fulfilled if we only looked at our MMORPG-forum; however, ZAM has their own forum, so maybe just maybe you are right in your implication that those may actually be the most common arguments against GW2 there. I doubt that though since the obvious elephant named "Item Mall" isn't even mentioned.
What I have reason to suspect the author remembered some concerns in their forum, selected a few of them, renamed them to "arguments against GW2" (which they defnitely do not need to be), shamelessly lied about them being "Top 5" to get more page hits and then posted the article.
I repeat: "being concerned" does not automatically imply that something is being "against GW2". It can many times simply be a neutral standpoint.
To return to the dungeon wipes: was the a concern about them being too difficult? Or was there a concern about people from WoW eventually forcing Arenanet to dumb down the dungeons? While they may sound equivalent, they are very different in their nature.
About "Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable" :
If the article had chosen then title "Five GW2 concerns", then I would agree with you to a certain extent; however, that's not the title of the article; the author chose to use the expressions "The top 5" and "arguments against Guild Wars 2" which I have strong reason to suspect is a premeditated lie created to get more hits.
Any game that is a "PvP" centric game and then flops in the death penalty department... kind of says it all for me. I'll wait for a real pvp mmorpg to come back.
Where are you people getting this PvP-centric stuff from? What is it exactly about GW2 that supposedly classifies it as PvP-centric? Because I can guarantee you right now, that there will be a hell of a lot more PvE content in the game than PvP. Just because it doesn't treat PvP like a red-headed stepchild (like so many ostensibly PvE games), doesn't mean that it's raison d'etre is PvP.
They are getting it from people who are hailing GW2 as DAoC2.
As far as OWPVP in a Theme Park MMORPG, I only have one question.......Really?????
My 1st MMO was SWG. It had flaws ut man was PVP fun. I also played City of Heroes since my brother played it at the time. Fun, simple game but PVP was an afterthought and when it was added, it was really arena style. Wasn't really fun. I didn't play after CoV so no PVP there.
Then we went to WoW. Played on a non PVP server. Sure we did guild raids between TM and SS. And then later the BGs. Keeping in mind tha tto me, SWG to date (still was) the best PVP I'd had at that time, I just accepted that BGs were WoW's PVP style. I later hated Arenas and stuck to BGs where I had the most fun.
Then came Rift. I rolled a PVP server because I wanted...you guessed it, OWPVP. How much better at PVP would I be if I leveled in it? Right?
WRONG! OWPVP in a TP MMO means How to level while trying to avoid getting ganked. That's it. Even in the upper zones, real PVP doesn't happen much. OWPVP attracts gankers who suck at PVP. They can't do competative PVP, they can't cooperate with people enough to do Dungeons or raids. They don't bother to learn their class and so they suck. They run around the lowbie zones wearing EFFIN greens for chrissakes! What's left for Endgame fun? Go gank the 20s!!!! "YAY, listen to them noobscry!!!!" they say. Irony at it's best. It's always funny to watch gankers because eventually someone who does know PVP shows up and takes out 2-3 gankers at once.
No, OWPVP in a TP means one of 2 things. Do you wish to get ganked by level capped losers while leveling or do you not wish to get ganekd by level capped losers while leveling?
And even if they did have OWPVP, youd still be the same level as the guys there. LOL So while some of you won't admit it, there still wouldn't be any one shotting the lowbs kind of fun.
There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
The combat is too hard!
There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!
Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
The article didn't impress me. These areguemtns aren't really valid ones. The article was meant to grab people who are in dount and sell them on why they should play. That's fine and all, but the arguemtns themselves are not real ones but rather strawman. Most of those "arguemtns" aren't really unique to GW2. But rather they are just features of the game. As someone said, they are the reasons to play. Which, is the intent of the article in the 1st place.
These are all arguements against the game that we have seen pretty damn often over the past six months. No matter how many holes are poked in them, they return. I thinks it's appropriate to gather some of them up into one article and provide a succinct, fact based rebuttal.
There are a number of other misconceptions that could be discussed as well. When a game has as many design differences vs. the status quo as GW2 does, continually addressing these things is useful, espescially since we are seeing more and more people who are new to the game starting to take an interest.
If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each? The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.
I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is.
Anyone who has been around discussions of the game long enough has seen all of these arguments. The "too difficult" arguement is the hardest one to find stated outright, because most people ren't going to admit they fear something is too difficult, but there definitely was a lot of concern about difficulty when the press beta dungeon videos showed some examples of continuous wipes in story mode the easier mode) of the first dungeon.
I've seen them all, I've countered them all.
Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable.
Is a spurious allegation of a "straw man" arguement itself a straw man arguement in and of itself?
It isn't enough that one person has mentioned something related to the topic: they have to be against GW2 and they have to be common. Those are two conditions which would not be fulfilled if we only looked at our MMORPG-forum; however, ZAM has their own forum, so maybe just maybe you are right in your implication that those may actually be the most common arguments against GW2 there. I doubt that though since the obvious elephant named "Item Mall" isn't even mentioned.
What I have reason to suspect the author remembered some concerns in their forum, selected a few of them, renamed them to "arguments against GW2" (which they defnitely do not need to be), shamelessly lied about them being "Top 5" to get more page hits and then posted the article.
I repeat: "being concerned" does not automatically imply that something is being "against GW2". It can many times simply be a neutral standpoint.
To return to the dungeon wipes: was the a concern about them being too difficult? Or was there a concern about people from WoW eventually forcing Arenanet to dumb down the dungeons? While they may sound equivalent, they are very different in their nature.
About "Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable" :
If the article had chosen then title "Five GW2 concerns", then I would agree with you to a certain extent; however, that's not the title of the article; the author chose to use the expressions "The top 5" and "arguments against Guild Wars 2" which I have strong reason to suspect is a premeditated lie created to get more hits.
Once again, I'll state that I have heard these concerns often while following the game. I haven't just followed the forums here, but have followed discussions and comments made in numeroues places across the web.
I'm not aware that anyone has done a survey to quantify the top concerns based on number of mentions. If it matters so much to you, you might want to get right on that.
Is there some hyperbole in the title of the article? Sure, but that seems to be the trend in recent months, not just pertaining to this game, but in other forums here and elsewhere. To be honest, I'm not a fan of the trend, but there it is. Oh, and no, I'm not going to search for five examples for you.
Once again, I'll state that I have heard these concerns often while following the game. I haven't just followed the forums here, but have followed discussions and comments made in numeroues places across the web.
I'm not aware that anyone has done a survey to quantify the top concerns based on number of mentions. If it matters so much to you, you might want to get right on that.
Is there some hyperbole in the title of the article? Sure, but that seems to be the trend in recent months, not just pertaining to this game, but in other forums here and elsewhere. To be honest, I'm not a fan of the trend, but there it is. Oh, and no, I'm not going to search for five examples for you.
I'd second this.
The ONLY argument that should've been on that list, but for obvious reasons isn't, would be the cash shop. And that is entirely due to the NDA. The funny thing is, that's not even the only article talking about those same arguments. TotalBiscuit addresses them in his 'thoughts about beta' video, amongst others. Even Yogscast discusses a few of them briefly (and that's not really their thing). You may be arguing w/ a Dodo bird on this one, though.
I can think of two, cash shop which will ultimately lead to p2w and the fact that aside from animation differences all the classes are ultimately the same thing, utility dps.
There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
The combat is too hard!
There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!
Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
I realy don't see any purpose for tis kind of analyses.
And 5 points are not even good reasons why not play.
1. PvP is instance you dont have to pvp at all so first point is pointless to why not playing GW2.
2. Raiding maybe not ingame, as most familiar with but from the moment you step into game you can come across dynamic events fighting huge bosses with many others so no need for endless dumb raiding grind.
3. If you want for 10-20 years always same gameplay yes then GW2 is not for you, we finally get a game where the boring T-H-D is not present.
4. Why would you not play game that have challenge thats dumb, walk in the park ezmode games are for children not for normal gamers.
5. This is dumbest reason not to play a game and not worth any discussion.
I realy don't see any purpose for tis kind of analyses.
And 5 points are not even good reasons why not play.
1. PvP is instance you dont have to pvp at all so first point is pointless to why not playing GW2.
2. Raiding maybe not ingame, as most familiar with but from the moment you step into game you can come across dynamic events fighting huge bosses with many others so no need for endless dumb raiding grind.
3. If you want for 10-20 years always same gameplay yes then GW2 is not for you, we finally get a game where the boring T-H-D is not present.
4. Why would you not play game that have challenge thats dumb, walk in the park ezmode games are for children not for normal gamers.
5. This is dumbest reason not to play a game and not worth any discussion.
That's kind of the whole point of the article. It both debunks the arguments, and discusses why they are not good reasons to avoid this game. Which is great, because many of us have seen these arguments played out over and over on this and other forums.
There are other threads with more thoughtful / relevant concerns which I hope Anet adresses, and I'd much rather see those being talked about than the above 5 nonsense.
I realy don't see any purpose for tis kind of analyses.
And 5 points are not even good reasons why not play.
1. PvP is instance you dont have to pvp at all so first point is pointless to why not playing GW2.
2. Raiding maybe not ingame, as most familiar with but from the moment you step into game you can come across dynamic events fighting huge bosses with many others so no need for endless dumb raiding grind.
3. If you want for 10-20 years always same gameplay yes then GW2 is not for you, we finally get a game where the boring T-H-D is not present.
4. Why would you not play game that have challenge thats dumb, walk in the park ezmode games are for children not for normal gamers.
5. This is dumbest reason not to play a game and not worth any discussion.
That's kind of the whole point of the article. It both debunks the arguments, and discusses why they are not good reasons to avoid this game. Which is great, because many of us have seen these arguments played out over and over on this and other forums.
There are other threads with more thoughtful / relevant concerns which I hope Anet adresses, and I'd much rather see those being talked about than the above 5 nonsense.
Most don't read the article, but react on those 5 points like a bull on a red flag.
I understand most arguments why people don't like what Guild Wars 2 is shaping up to be. The one that I can't understand is that it's a missed opportunity to not have OWPvP in Guild Wars 2. Nothing is 'missed' here. Aside from personal opinions (that there is no OWPvP, but only ganking/grieving), Guild Wars 2 tries to setup a world that players can explore together, while not being forced into parties to do so. In that perspective it's the same as the original Guild Wars, as in more of a Co-Op experience that a MMO, just more evolved this time. I don't believe that there is a place for OWPvP there.
Besides, not having OWPvP saves ArenaNet and the players all that hassle of having different servers to cater to everyone, or having to setup a 'flag'-system, having to build non-pvp zones, etc. It saves me from having to deal with the retarded taunts to get me to turn my pvp status on, etc. I for one won't miss OWPvP and forced grouping. Main reasons for me to buy Guild Wars 2.
1) CHAOS, doesn't feel like a MMORPG. (There's just too much of this in every aspect of the game)
2) No endgame. (gear/character progression)
3) Cash Shop ruining the balance for PvE and WvWvW
4) No feel of progression (You are constantly sidekicked and you've unlocked all skills in few hours of gameplay, only traits + getting elite skill open will give you some insight)
5) All classes feel very similar with a twist.
Bonus) Very limited single-player experience, playing off-hours is really bad. (most of the good events don't scale below 3-5).
Conclusion for me is that I'll be playing D3/Tera/TSW over this and if I for some reason get extremely bored (which is unlikely) I'll get GW2 from the bargain bin.
The only good open world pvp games I can think of are sandboxes...for some odd reason...eh well beats me
Even WoW's open world pvp was fun before it was tarnished with battlegrounds and honor. If you played during Vanilla you'd understand.
It was crap. The only time open world pvp is any good is when the server is new and eveyone is the same level. As sone as a server gets some max levels they would just hang out and grif all the lower level's. That is not pvp, thats crap players that can't handle real pvp so they go around ganking players that can't fight back.
If you want true open world pvp go play EVE online. or GW2's WvW (looks very close).
What creates this problem is bad endgame.. WHen you see this in an MMO it means the only people who have much to do at endgame are PVPers. This goes back to the point of true sandbox endgame activity vs Themepark or zergfests. The support roles and other options are key, it keeps a lot of people around and a diverse group of: PVEers, PVPers, Support roles, Crafters and roleplayers. Think EVE, think SWG, think UO and other sandbox oriented designs.
Open World PVP are only good when there is a Reward and Penalty. In a virtual World, when you can walk around killing everything in your path without remorse or consequences, the game falls hard, it just becomes an Ganking and Annoying Mechanic.
When you have a penalty for killing a player, regardless of where you are, when you have an actual bounty then it becomes fun.
The current sociopathic, homocidal Open World PVP system requires an new overhaul before it gets implemented in any other future MMO.
GW2 does not have Open World PVP, it never said it does, many feels W v W satisfied their Open World PVP needs, if you don't, its not our lost, its your lost. I feel W v W satisfied my Open World PVPness, so I am happy.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
1) CHAOS, doesn't feel like a MMORPG. (There's just too much of this in every aspect of the game)
2) No endgame. (gear/character progression)
3) Cash Shop ruining the balance for PvE and WvWvW
4) No feel of progression (You are constantly sidekicked and you've unlocked all skills in few hours of gameplay, only traits + getting elite skill open will give you some insight)
5) All classes feel very similar with a twist.
Bonus) Very limited single-player experience, playing off-hours is really bad. (most of the good events don't scale below 3-5).
Conclusion for me is that I'll be playing D3/Tera/TSW over this and if I for some reason get extremely bored (which is unlikely) I'll get GW2 from the bargain bin.
1.
Wierdly enough that is the main reason i will be playing GW2, a sense of chaos while fighting.
Fighting is not supposed to be systemic, it's supposed to be about adapting.
The combat system is the most alluring thing for me in GW2, the fact that everyone must adapt, be on their toes and react will make for a much more involving RPG for me.
I'm sick of being able to read emails and see videos and at the same still beat whatever pve content i'm faced with.
2.
Well, my particular endgame will be WvW and structured pvp.
But responding to your argument, i'm totally and utterly sick of vertical progression gaming, having your character reach goals is nice, having your characters after an infinite and mundane number of goals is just poor game design.
Glad some designers are looking at horizontal progression and not vertical.
3.
No idea if it will affect any of what you said, but i would rather have no cash shop too.
4.
Your character keeps getting stronger and learning other things during the gameplay, this i can guarantee you.
5.
This is just not true.
Bonus.
Also not true, read a bit more in the game please.
On short, you're too attached to the carrot, progression gaming isn't the only kind of gaming, but i'm glad you recognize that and are looking for the many many many games that offer vertical progression.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
More stuff..
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
Given your statements, I assume that you will not be pre-purchasing or purchasing at all?
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
You sure are waging war against this game, for someone that didn't read nothing about it nor cared somehow you're very emotional about it.
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
You sure are waging war against this game, for someone that didn't read nothing about it nor cared somehow you're very emotional about it.
It is strange isn't it? I believe that discussion started with a reasonable "does this game have open world PvP" to which the answer was "No" and it has somehow morphed into this negative campaign against a game that she/he clearly has no interest in. It's almost like there's an agenda here.
Maybe it's the culture of forums, I don't know, but I do find it fascinating that people who have no intention of playing or purchasing a product still nevertheless go on the forums of those game(s).
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
1) assumption made by you
2) assumption made by you
3) assumption made by you
4) assumption made by you
WOW you sure love to make assumptions and predictions. I totally appreciate your opinion on this issue
Do you feel the need to tell others what to do based on Assumptions and Predictions ?
Don't want to do any personal attacks or anything of that sorts, but really, if you don't like the game, don't play it, don't buy it, heck you don't even have to pay monthly for it.
I bought SWTOR for 150 dollars, and I only played 3 months, this game only costs me 60 dollars, and I will never have to cancel it, i can play it whenever and however I want. Why is it such a big deal to you.
Besides, if you really want to make someone hate the game before it comes out, put some actual facts in your posts, not assumptions.
No one stated that you will love the game because maybe if they implement this or that, they are saying that this feature W v W does this for players seeking this specific thing. The Dynamic events are to eliminate this to promote that which it does.
Its not like you are on the fence, you obviously already made up your mind, or am I wrong that you are actually bashing the game because you like the game....if thats the case, you might want to seek out some help.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Comments
Don't be too amazed. That post is 5 months old, and rife with subjective argumentation. Quick breakdown:
10 - Profession overlap really isn't a problem. A warrior is going to do long range AoE damage differently than a necro; a thief has a much different toolbox than a guardian or ele. Everything can be simplified to "exactly the same", it just depends on how much reductionism you're willing to employ.
9 - Most of this is subjective, and the parts that aren't subjective (ie, "no more juking Bull's Strike") can't really be argued against until GW2 is mature enough for players to see if they can develop similarly skill-rewarding tactics. Considering the huge toolbox of skills we have to work with, I think that's a given, but either way it's not something that can be profitably argued one way or the other right now.
8 - Elites have been incredibly toned down in power. Look at Lich Form now, it's a shadow of its former self at the time that this post was made (and thank goodness...). Elites initially had CDs in the 12 minute range; now they're much less powerful, but they have CDs in the 1-3 minute range.
7 - This entire argument is based on the notion that attributes can be optimized. This remains to be seen. Even if that IS the case, how is that different than GW1, or indeed any other competitive game with stats? The weapons argument is bunk; building a universal bar in GW1 was impossible because the skills were so narrow in function, and the difference between one skill and another was often small but important. GW2 weapon skills are NOT your entire build, and they're designed to be at least somewhat useful in every situation. Traits are given two sentences worth of mention; since this article was written, the new trait system has been rolled out, and it provides a ton of build-making opportunity.
6 - He cites a number of problems with the capture point format, and frankly this deserves its own thread. I don't agree with the people who think CP is a terrible competitive PvP format; I think it'll accomplish the goal of getting people to fight at centralized locations while still rewarding large-scale mobility and split tactics that GW1 GvG did well. I also think it'll be more easy to pick up and learn than GvG, which is important to getting new blood into the format. I DO wish, hope, and think that they'll add more formats to competitive PvP in the future.
5 - Uh....this is flat out stupid. GW2 has probably four more keys necessary than GW1: skills 9 and 0, your dodge, and your weapon swap. F1 - F4 were used for weapon swaps in GW1, and everything else (tab, ctrl, etc) is basically exactly the same.
4 - Again, fucking stupid. First off, GW2 does an amazing job of targeting the player / enemy that you're attacking without you ever clicking on them or pressing tab; just start wailing on him with your attack skills (aimed, naturally), and you'll auto-target. Secondly, seriously, how is this different than GW1? If you want to target something, you click it!
3 - People learned animations in GW1, they'll learn them in GW2. The giant red circles of death are a pretty easy indicator for you to NOT STAND HERE, honestly. Professions WILL be more difficult to determine, yes, but that'll only last for the first 5 seconds of a match. The redundancy question with conditions has been solved by the recent boon and condition revamp, and conditions are really quite easy to spot visually without looking at healthbars.
2 - Yeah, they know the particle efffects are a bit much. Expect them to be turned down, and expect them to give you a slider to allow you to turn them down further. Health is pretty darn easy to see, in practice, because that health orb is glowing and animating as you lose health.
1 - Monotonous skill design...you're looking at these skills incorrectly. You can't one-for-one compare GW1 skills to GW2 skills. In GW1, skills were pretty much ALL you could do. Yeah, you could move around a bit, but for the most part everything useful was done via skills. You are required to move and think about your positioning SO much more in GW2 (and I'm just talking PvE here; NOBODY has enough experience with GW2 PvP to do a fair comparison). Splitblade is not just "projectile damage in an area"; you need to AIM that thing, you need to use it at the proper range and from the right angle to hit the right number of people / mobs, you need to decide if you want to use it as a ranged AoE or as a single-target shotgun bleed applicator. In GW1, "ranged AoE damage" is a fireball. Those kind of "fire and forget" simple skills are your "1" skills. Everything else can pretty much be spammed on recharge for some useful effect, OR they can be used properly for much greater effect. The only skill on a ranger's axe + warhorn set that might use some spicing up is Hunter's Call, because it's really just a simple DoT and it could really use some additional control effect (at least a blind).
I totally agree that playing with opportunity costs should be a thing...but they already do that. Mesmer mantras, channeled skills (god help you if you use one of these right before you need to dodge, you just completely wasted that skill), stances and other buffs with incredibly short effects, signets that turn off their passive buffs when you activate them, skills that have an additional effect on a succesful block, weapon skills on 30s+ recharges, weapon skills that have additional effects if you hit from behind or the side, etc, etc...there are plenty of ways in which they reward proper skill use through opportunity costs.
TL;DR: it's a huge theorycrafting post that is equal parts outdated, subjective, and speculation.
That's a pretty dated list...
Most of those points aren't even relevant anymore, if they were at all relevant to begin w/. That's the problem with Theorycrafting on a game that isn't accessible yet.
If you get more current:
7BitBrian does a pretty good job of stating this.
That link was made November 2011, we are now getting to the end of April 2012, and with the game actually having been play tested. Most of that stuff just doesn't apply anymore.
Already the first of those links is disqualified since the opening post in it is merely asking how GW2's endgame will look like; it is not argueing that GW2 is bad because of its endgame.
Which brings me back to the point: the whole article is a straw man because it heavily modifies the actual points and then replies to those heavily modified points rather than to the actual ones.
Anyone who has been around discussions of the game long enough has seen all of these arguments. The "too difficult" arguement is the hardest one to find stated outright, because most people ren't going to admit they fear something is too difficult, but there definitely was a lot of concern about difficulty when the press beta dungeon videos showed some examples of continuous wipes in story mode the easier mode) of the first dungeon.
I've seen them all, I've countered them all.
Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable.
Is a spurious allegation of a "straw man" arguement itself a straw man arguement in and of itself?
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Lol, again.. I'm not doing your work for you. (And it doesn't seem like you have any intention of doing it either). Anyone with eyes that has been on this forums for more than a week has seen these issues over and over. If you don't, well then I guess i'm happy for you, because it's been the bane of most of us on these forums. Kind of relentless to tell you the truth. Not all of those threads were started to complain about endgame, but all of them contain endgame complaints within them. Furthermore, while looking for those I came across others that were just as bad.
Again, asking for someone to dig up 15 separate threads for you to prove a point is ridiculous. You better have some damned good cookies if you want that outa someone.
No, I'd say it's in mid-beta now. It wasn't that great in early beta, but you're right, now it's the greatest thing ever. EVER. I can't wait to rub my face on the screen when it loads up.
This is why I didn't fall for your little game. I'm not going to argue over whether or not x post in y thread equals z posited flaw.
People who have followed the game know these arguements have been raised. Even people more recent to following the game can see that these are all things that one might expect to have been raised as issues. I can't prove that you actually know these issues have been raised, but let's just say that I honestly doubt your sincerity.
The article still raises a lot of common/easy misconceptions about the game and addresses them. Not sure why you find that so threatening, but you must have some motivation for attacking something so self evident.
If you have a different list, go ahead and list them and we can discuss the issues you raise. Your current tack is pointless.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I believe he is implying that the only reason you're on this part of the forums making such vauge comments about how many are going to be dissapointed with GW2 is because you favor another game, said game being Tera.
To emphasize this on the Tera forums you are asking people not to come to the forums and complain or cry if they are dissapointed. Here you seem to be awaiting such a response from those that are excited about GW2.
And I already know you will attempt to come back and say "But I've said good stuff about GW2 and I pre-purchased it so you're way off base" but things like the above that I pointed out in your post history show otherwise.
It isn't enough that one person has mentioned something related to the topic: they have to be against GW2 and they have to be common. Those are two conditions which would not be fulfilled if we only looked at our MMORPG-forum; however, ZAM has their own forum, so maybe just maybe you are right in your implication that those may actually be the most common arguments against GW2 there. I doubt that though since the obvious elephant named "Item Mall" isn't even mentioned.
What I have reason to suspect the author remembered some concerns in their forum, selected a few of them, renamed them to "arguments against GW2" (which they defnitely do not need to be), shamelessly lied about them being "Top 5" to get more page hits and then posted the article.
I repeat: "being concerned" does not automatically imply that something is being "against GW2". It can many times simply be a neutral standpoint.
To return to the dungeon wipes: was the a concern about them being too difficult? Or was there a concern about people from WoW eventually forcing Arenanet to dumb down the dungeons? While they may sound equivalent, they are very different in their nature.
About "Is this the best list of five concerns? I'd say no, but that doesn't make the article any less valuable" :
If the article had chosen then title "Five GW2 concerns", then I would agree with you to a certain extent; however, that's not the title of the article; the author chose to use the expressions "The top 5" and "arguments against Guild Wars 2" which I have strong reason to suspect is a premeditated lie created to get more hits.
They are getting it from people who are hailing GW2 as DAoC2.
As far as OWPVP in a Theme Park MMORPG, I only have one question.......Really?????
My 1st MMO was SWG. It had flaws ut man was PVP fun. I also played City of Heroes since my brother played it at the time. Fun, simple game but PVP was an afterthought and when it was added, it was really arena style. Wasn't really fun. I didn't play after CoV so no PVP there.
Then we went to WoW. Played on a non PVP server. Sure we did guild raids between TM and SS. And then later the BGs. Keeping in mind tha tto me, SWG to date (still was) the best PVP I'd had at that time, I just accepted that BGs were WoW's PVP style. I later hated Arenas and stuck to BGs where I had the most fun.
Then came Rift. I rolled a PVP server because I wanted...you guessed it, OWPVP. How much better at PVP would I be if I leveled in it? Right?
WRONG! OWPVP in a TP MMO means How to level while trying to avoid getting ganked. That's it. Even in the upper zones, real PVP doesn't happen much. OWPVP attracts gankers who suck at PVP. They can't do competative PVP, they can't cooperate with people enough to do Dungeons or raids. They don't bother to learn their class and so they suck. They run around the lowbie zones wearing EFFIN greens for chrissakes! What's left for Endgame fun? Go gank the 20s!!!! "YAY, listen to them noobscry!!!!" they say. Irony at it's best. It's always funny to watch gankers because eventually someone who does know PVP shows up and takes out 2-3 gankers at once.
No, OWPVP in a TP means one of 2 things. Do you wish to get ganked by level capped losers while leveling or do you not wish to get ganekd by level capped losers while leveling?
And even if they did have OWPVP, youd still be the same level as the guys there. LOL So while some of you won't admit it, there still wouldn't be any one shotting the lowbs kind of fun.
Once again, I'll state that I have heard these concerns often while following the game. I haven't just followed the forums here, but have followed discussions and comments made in numeroues places across the web.
I'm not aware that anyone has done a survey to quantify the top concerns based on number of mentions. If it matters so much to you, you might want to get right on that.
Is there some hyperbole in the title of the article? Sure, but that seems to be the trend in recent months, not just pertaining to this game, but in other forums here and elsewhere. To be honest, I'm not a fan of the trend, but there it is. Oh, and no, I'm not going to search for five examples for you.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I'd second this.
The ONLY argument that should've been on that list, but for obvious reasons isn't, would be the cash shop. And that is entirely due to the NDA. The funny thing is, that's not even the only article talking about those same arguments. TotalBiscuit addresses them in his 'thoughts about beta' video, amongst others. Even Yogscast discusses a few of them briefly (and that's not really their thing). You may be arguing w/ a Dodo bird on this one, though.
I can think of two, cash shop which will ultimately lead to p2w and the fact that aside from animation differences all the classes are ultimately the same thing, utility dps.
I realy don't see any purpose for tis kind of analyses.
And 5 points are not even good reasons why not play.
1. PvP is instance you dont have to pvp at all so first point is pointless to why not playing GW2.
2. Raiding maybe not ingame, as most familiar with but from the moment you step into game you can come across dynamic events fighting huge bosses with many others so no need for endless dumb raiding grind.
3. If you want for 10-20 years always same gameplay yes then GW2 is not for you, we finally get a game where the boring T-H-D is not present.
4. Why would you not play game that have challenge thats dumb, walk in the park ezmode games are for children not for normal gamers.
5. This is dumbest reason not to play a game and not worth any discussion.
Well I am very much happy with the arguments
no sub fee, PVP , challenging combat, no trinity.
No end game doesnt worry me - With work and family life I am a casual player and it takes a few month for me to reach my max
and here I am planning to roll a few alts so no problem
That's kind of the whole point of the article. It both debunks the arguments, and discusses why they are not good reasons to avoid this game. Which is great, because many of us have seen these arguments played out over and over on this and other forums.
There are other threads with more thoughtful / relevant concerns which I hope Anet adresses, and I'd much rather see those being talked about than the above 5 nonsense.
Most don't read the article, but react on those 5 points like a bull on a red flag.
I understand most arguments why people don't like what Guild Wars 2 is shaping up to be. The one that I can't understand is that it's a missed opportunity to not have OWPvP in Guild Wars 2. Nothing is 'missed' here. Aside from personal opinions (that there is no OWPvP, but only ganking/grieving), Guild Wars 2 tries to setup a world that players can explore together, while not being forced into parties to do so. In that perspective it's the same as the original Guild Wars, as in more of a Co-Op experience that a MMO, just more evolved this time. I don't believe that there is a place for OWPvP there.
Besides, not having OWPvP saves ArenaNet and the players all that hassle of having different servers to cater to everyone, or having to setup a 'flag'-system, having to build non-pvp zones, etc. It saves me from having to deal with the retarded taunts to get me to turn my pvp status on, etc. I for one won't miss OWPvP and forced grouping. Main reasons for me to buy Guild Wars 2.
For me the top 5 is definately:
1) CHAOS, doesn't feel like a MMORPG. (There's just too much of this in every aspect of the game)
2) No endgame. (gear/character progression)
3) Cash Shop ruining the balance for PvE and WvWvW
4) No feel of progression (You are constantly sidekicked and you've unlocked all skills in few hours of gameplay, only traits + getting elite skill open will give you some insight)
5) All classes feel very similar with a twist.
Bonus) Very limited single-player experience, playing off-hours is really bad. (most of the good events don't scale below 3-5).
Conclusion for me is that I'll be playing D3/Tera/TSW over this and if I for some reason get extremely bored (which is unlikely) I'll get GW2 from the bargain bin.
Open World PVP are only good when there is a Reward and Penalty. In a virtual World, when you can walk around killing everything in your path without remorse or consequences, the game falls hard, it just becomes an Ganking and Annoying Mechanic.
When you have a penalty for killing a player, regardless of where you are, when you have an actual bounty then it becomes fun.
The current sociopathic, homocidal Open World PVP system requires an new overhaul before it gets implemented in any other future MMO.
GW2 does not have Open World PVP, it never said it does, many feels W v W satisfied their Open World PVP needs, if you don't, its not our lost, its your lost. I feel W v W satisfied my Open World PVPness, so I am happy.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
1.
Wierdly enough that is the main reason i will be playing GW2, a sense of chaos while fighting.
Fighting is not supposed to be systemic, it's supposed to be about adapting.
The combat system is the most alluring thing for me in GW2, the fact that everyone must adapt, be on their toes and react will make for a much more involving RPG for me.
I'm sick of being able to read emails and see videos and at the same still beat whatever pve content i'm faced with.
2.
Well, my particular endgame will be WvW and structured pvp.
But responding to your argument, i'm totally and utterly sick of vertical progression gaming, having your character reach goals is nice, having your characters after an infinite and mundane number of goals is just poor game design.
Glad some designers are looking at horizontal progression and not vertical.
3.
No idea if it will affect any of what you said, but i would rather have no cash shop too.
4.
Your character keeps getting stronger and learning other things during the gameplay, this i can guarantee you.
5.
This is just not true.
Bonus.
Also not true, read a bit more in the game please.
On short, you're too attached to the carrot, progression gaming isn't the only kind of gaming, but i'm glad you recognize that and are looking for the many many many games that offer vertical progression.
More stuff..
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Given your statements, I assume that you will not be pre-purchasing or purchasing at all?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
You sure are waging war against this game, for someone that didn't read nothing about it nor cared somehow you're very emotional about it.
It is strange isn't it? I believe that discussion started with a reasonable "does this game have open world PvP" to which the answer was "No" and it has somehow morphed into this negative campaign against a game that she/he clearly has no interest in. It's almost like there's an agenda here.
Maybe it's the culture of forums, I don't know, but I do find it fascinating that people who have no intention of playing or purchasing a product still nevertheless go on the forums of those game(s).
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
1) assumption made by you
2) assumption made by you
3) assumption made by you
4) assumption made by you
WOW you sure love to make assumptions and predictions. I totally appreciate your opinion on this issue
Do you feel the need to tell others what to do based on Assumptions and Predictions ?
Don't want to do any personal attacks or anything of that sorts, but really, if you don't like the game, don't play it, don't buy it, heck you don't even have to pay monthly for it.
I bought SWTOR for 150 dollars, and I only played 3 months, this game only costs me 60 dollars, and I will never have to cancel it, i can play it whenever and however I want. Why is it such a big deal to you.
Besides, if you really want to make someone hate the game before it comes out, put some actual facts in your posts, not assumptions.
No one stated that you will love the game because maybe if they implement this or that, they are saying that this feature W v W does this for players seeking this specific thing. The Dynamic events are to eliminate this to promote that which it does.
Its not like you are on the fence, you obviously already made up your mind, or am I wrong that you are actually bashing the game because you like the game....if thats the case, you might want to seek out some help.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.