In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
Would this imply different quality grades of raw materials, that when used to make an item, change the item because of the quality grade used?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
Would this imply different quality grades of raw materials, that when used to make an item, change the item because of the quality grade used?
Hello XAPGames.
Yes, quality grades would be a possible implementation for an in-depth resource system, but not the only possible one. Let me give you two examples for games I'm familiar with, Wurm and Ryzom.
Wurm:
Arrows for example can be made out of every type of wood, however arrows made from cedar take less damage and arrows made from maple are easier to craft. Thus players need to balance availability of wood with wanted attributes. Likewise with bows: bows from willow are superior but willow trees are semi-rare. Thus players need to make choices.
Ryzom:
Leaves are used for clothing and armour, but different types of leaves have different attributes, not only in colour but also in protection factor, weight or flexibility. Thus players need to decide what they want, focus on something or try to balance things.
Just different examples of what I'd call an in-depth resource system.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
No AC1 then I am sorry this is not a sandbox list this is hey these are my sandbox games.
AC1 is very much sandbox. Everyone classes it as sandbox, in fact Darkfall was pretty much made up of UO and AC guilds all going on about the good old days.
Also Outer Empires no longer has iPhone and iPad support since it changed hands there is plans in the future but not yet. I love sandbox games played all on this list but you are missing some too.
Star Sonata 2 has everything you mentioned. I like this game way more the Outer Empires but also has way more features why is that not listed?
The only thing Star Sonata 2 fails on is open world you have to warp from gate to gate and this is only because once someone takes over the universe the whole universe is shuffled around at random. But then again you have to warp from gate to gate in EvE and Outer Empires.
Sandbox just means that you have the ability in the game to gather or loot materials and then create new items through a production process, and the ability to create persistent structures in the game like housing, etc. Character development is not part of the consideration.
With regards to "on rails", any good sandbox MMO should offer "on rails" content as an intuitive way to offer depth, content, lore/story and in general an alternative on how to spend their time.
All of the extra rules or requirements to define Sandbox is just the opinion of the OP.
Just different examples of what I'd call an in-depth resource system.
Thanks a bunch. That helped quite a bit.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
No AC1 then I am sorry this is not a sandbox list this is hey these are my sandbox games.
AC1 is very much sandbox. Everyone classes it as sandbox, in fact Darkfall was pretty much made up of UO and AC guilds all going on about the good old days.
AC1 has been discussed extensively in this thread.
Originally posted by Woopin
Also Outer Empires no longer has iPhone and iPad support since it changed hands there is plans in the future but not yet. ...
Thanks for the information, I didn't know. I'll update the list shortly.
Originally posted by Woopin
Star Sonata 2 has everything you mentioned. I like this game way more the Outer Empires but also has way more features why is that not listed? ...
It's not listed because no one had yet suggested it. I'll have a look at it for the next update. Thanks for the info.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
No AC1 then I am sorry this is not a sandbox list this is hey these are my sandbox games.
AC1 is very much sandbox. Everyone classes it as sandbox, in fact Darkfall was pretty much made up of UO and AC guilds all going on about the good old days.
AC1 has been discussed extensively in this thread.
Originally posted by Woopin
Also Outer Empires no longer has iPhone and iPad support since it changed hands there is plans in the future but not yet. ...
Thanks for the information, I didn't know. I'll update the list shortly.
Originally posted by Woopin
Star Sonata 2 has everything you mentioned. I like this game way more the Outer Empires but also has way more features why is that not listed? ...
It's not listed because no one had yet suggested it. I'll have a look at it for the next update. Thanks for the info.
I must of suggested Star Sonata 2 in another Sandbox thread a while back I figured it was this one :P
The game is way more in depth than they make out I do wish they would list all features. Also 2D/3D action based gameplay a little like S.P.A.Z. feel to it. I didn't know it had all features until I was about a week into the game desovering new things that I never knew about you are probably best checking the WIKI for most information.
Originally posted by BigHatLogan EVE has a free client.
Double-checked this on the official site.
From http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=21: Creating a CD-less account and a subscription to EVE - Online (including 30 days of game time) = €19.95. Granted, it's not much more expensive than the 1-month subscription plan, still, you have to buy the game after your free trial.
download free trial, gives you client. Upgrade to sub, problem fixed. Unless they changed it in the last year.
How is Fallen Earth on the list but Vanguard isn't? Either they both should or shouldn't be on that list. They both have a few similar themeparkish elements while also having a good amount of actual sandbox elements. I would argue both are sandboxish enough to be on that list.
Originally posted by Pale_Fire Also, Asheron's Call and Everquest. I know AC was/is sandbox.
EQ is the first major theme park mmo
An open world yes
A non-instanced game world (zones can be fine) Yes
Character progression or development outside of combat Crafting progression outside of combat
Gameplay features other than combat yes
Player-driven in-game economy, yes
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, open skill system yes
Non-linear character development, yes with AA's
In-depth crafting system, yes
In-depth resource system, yes
Persistent game world, yes
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, yes can become kos and friendly with any npc depending on actions
Some form of customizable player housing/building, Beleive there housing now
Seems like EQ qualifies with the standard of OP
It has two serious disqualifiers IMO, one being player progression is carried from one zone to the next higher level one, with the earlier ones becoming entirely useless. (and players are unable to access certain zones until they reach the appropriate level of progression)
This is almost a hallmark feature of the theme park design and a virtual anti-thesis to most sandbox games where a player really can access almost anywhere in the world at any level, even just starting out. (see EVE)
DAOC is a good virtual world MMORPG, but it shares this same characteristic making it more theme park than sandbox despite the fact it might qualify in some other areas.
Second, players can't really create/destroy structures, control territory or resources, (or deny others from obtaining them),
Basically, a players actions can't really have any impact on the game world that matters to others.
It's true, there are some fine lines being drawn in this thread, such as I think Fallen Earth probably doesn't really qualify, and if it does, then AC1 should be included as well.
But then, this isn't my list, it's the OPs and he gets the final decision.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Margulis How is Fallen Earth on the list but Vanguard isn't? Either they both should or shouldn't be on that list. They both have a few similar themeparkish elements while also having a good amount of actual sandbox elements. I would argue both are sandboxish enough to be on that list.
I agree, Fallen Earth is most definetly a theme park with with some sandbox elements. Progression is on rails.
Originally posted by Pale_Fire Also, Asheron's Call and Everquest. I know AC was/is sandbox.
EQ is the first major theme park mmo
An open world yes
A non-instanced game world (zones can be fine) Yes
Character progression or development outside of combat Crafting progression outside of combat
Gameplay features other than combat yes
Player-driven in-game economy, yes
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, open skill system yes
Non-linear character development, yes with AA's
In-depth crafting system, yes
In-depth resource system, yes
Persistent game world, yes
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world, yes can become kos and friendly with any npc depending on actions
Some form of customizable player housing/building, Beleive there housing now
Seems like EQ qualifies with the standard of OP
Character progression or development outside of combat Crafting progression outside of combat - not a chance. Crafting was very dependent on combat as materials were gathered through combat.
Gameplay features other than combat yes
Character development that can be customised via skills and/or customisations of class roles, open skill system. no, it had skills but the the skill level was determined by the player level. It was a heavy class based game with no ability to move outside the skills given to that class.
Non-linear character development, yes with AA's. Till level 51 it is very linear.
In-depth crafting system, - not particularly. They have a ton of recipes and crafting and materials now, but still all materials are gathered through combat, unless you have the coin to buy them, making crafting pretty restricted. That and many crafting classes (again classes) are based on race or class.
In-depth resource system, - definately not. Again materials are through combat
Persistent game world, yes
Player's ability to change aspects of the game world. - no a player becoming kos to guards is not changing the game world, it is changing the player. Big difference.
Some form of customizable player housing/building, Beleive there housing now.
EQ has very little in common with the OP's requirements
edit - EQ today with AA, and housing is definately a lot closer, a lot, but till level 51 is still very themeparkish.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Margulis How is Fallen Earth on the list but Vanguard isn't? Either they both should or shouldn't be on that list. They both have a few similar themeparkish elements while also having a good amount of actual sandbox elements. I would argue both are sandboxish enough to be on that list.
I agree, Fallen Earth is most definetly a theme park with with some sandbox elements. Progression is on rails.
Not really, it is only as on rails as you choose it to be. There is no need to go from starter town to starter town. The only on rails part is going from section 1, to section 2 to section 3.
No classes, completely skill based - is the big one that VG does not have. I would call FE a sandbox with some themepark elements, that really only being a lot of quests.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Margulis How is Fallen Earth on the list but Vanguard isn't? Either they both should or shouldn't be on that list. They both have a few similar themeparkish elements while also having a good amount of actual sandbox elements. I would argue both are sandboxish enough to be on that list.
I agree, Fallen Earth is most definetly a theme park with with some sandbox elements. Progression is on rails.
Not really, it is only as on rails as you choose it to be. There is no need to go from starter town to starter town. The only on rails part is going from section 1, to section 2 to section 3.
No classes, completely skill based - is the big one that VG does not have. I would call FE a sandbox with some themepark elements, that really only being a lot of quests.
Its on rails because you have a story which leads you to S5, and theres no real reason to hang around any of the earlier sectors. You must level up before you can attempt higher stuff. Compare that to EVE or Darkfall where everyone can do everything, anywhere.
It has two serious disqualifiers IMO, one being player progression is carried from one zone to the next higher level one, with the earlier ones becoming entirely useless. (and players are unable to access certain zones until they reach the appropriate level of progression)
This is almost a hallmark feature of the theme park design and a virtual anti-thesis to most sandbox games where a player really can access almost anywhere in the world at any level, even just starting out. (see EVE)
Its not about access, its about what you can do there. I could go anywhere in Vanguard too, which didn't mean the area was meant for my level. In any number of MOBAs I can have access to high-level matches through high-level team mates. It doesn't mean I am supposed to be there. Null-sec, in Eve, is not meant for low SP characters. Neither is wormhole space. They have little to no business being there.
Access is not a good measure whether a game is sandbox or not. Is GW2 a sandbox?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
It has two serious disqualifiers IMO, one being player progression is carried from one zone to the next higher level one, with the earlier ones becoming entirely useless. (and players are unable to access certain zones until they reach the appropriate level of progression)
This is almost a hallmark feature of the theme park design and a virtual anti-thesis to most sandbox games where a player really can access almost anywhere in the world at any level, even just starting out. (see EVE)
Its not about access, its about what you can do there. I could go anywhere in Vanguard too, which didn't mean the area was meant for my level. In any number of MOBAs I can have access to high-level matches through high-level team mates. It doesn't mean I am supposed to be there. Null-sec, in Eve, is not meant for low SP characters. Neither is wormhole space. They have little to no business being there.
Access is not a good measure whether a game is sandbox or not. Is GW2 a sandbox?
It is about gated content, and not so much about access. And can you go in GW2 to the high level PvE area at level 1? No you cant... you have to finish go through all others, and some have even min level to entry.
Its not about access, its about what you can do there. I could go anywhere in Vanguard too, which didn't mean the area was meant for my level. In any number of MOBAs I can have access to high-level matches through high-level team mates. It doesn't mean I am supposed to be there. Null-sec, in Eve, is not meant for low SP characters. Neither is wormhole space. They have little to no business being there.
Access is not a good measure whether a game is sandbox or not. Is GW2 a sandbox?
It is about gated content, and not so much about access. And can you go in GW2 to the high level PvE area at level 1? No you cant... you have to finish go through all others, and some have even min level to entry.
What? Last time I was playing only thing gated was the dungeons and personal story. You can certainly go to an area that is not not meant for your level. Just run there - if you can make it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Its not about access, its about what you can do there. I could go anywhere in Vanguard too, which didn't mean the area was meant for my level. In any number of MOBAs I can have access to high-level matches through high-level team mates. It doesn't mean I am supposed to be there. Null-sec, in Eve, is not meant for low SP characters. Neither is wormhole space. They have little to no business being there.
Access is not a good measure whether a game is sandbox or not. Is GW2 a sandbox?
It is about gated content, and not so much about access. And can you go in GW2 to the high level PvE area at level 1? No you cant... you have to finish go through all others, and some have even min level to entry.
What? Last time I was playing only thing gated was the dungeons and personal story. You can certainly go to an area that is not not meant for your level. Just run there - if you can make it.
Cant do dungeons unless you are a specific level. Gear is level and class limited.
Originally posted by Margulis How is Fallen Earth on the list but Vanguard isn't? Either they both should or shouldn't be on that list. They both have a few similar themeparkish elements while also having a good amount of actual sandbox elements. I would argue both are sandboxish enough to be on that list.
I agree, Fallen Earth is most definetly a theme park with with some sandbox elements. Progression is on rails.
Not really, it is only as on rails as you choose it to be. There is no need to go from starter town to starter town. The only on rails part is going from section 1, to section 2 to section 3.
No classes, completely skill based - is the big one that VG does not have. I would call FE a sandbox with some themepark elements, that really only being a lot of quests.
What you just described is being on rails........... having 1 of a few starting cities then from that point being guided from hub to hub and ultimately with Fallen Earth from sector to sector. How does "no need to go from starter town to starter town" classify at all a lack of being on rails? You just described every mmo with multiple starting areas, none of them make you go to the other ones - they all funnel into a common location and then go from there. Vanguard actually has a lot more choices regarding where to go because of it's size.
Also while it's skill based it is still level based and I don't see us throwing The Secret World up there for having some of those qualities. After that they both have a few sandparkish elements like Vanguard with ship building, fishing, deeper crafting PRODUCTION MECHANIC, and diplomacy while Fallen Earth has farming, casino, etc etc
So again, they are very similar in terms of being sandparks - so either both should be on the list or neither.
It's fascinating to look at the list. EVE Online is obviously the most successful sci-fi sandbox game while Runescape is the most successful fantasy sandbox game. Both games started way back in 2003 and 2001 respectively. Not many games fits in this definition of sandbox.
Current trend right now in the MMO industry is showing many players starting to get tired of themepark games. The huge market for an AAA 3D fantasy sandbox game is ripe for the taking. I think Everquest Next will seize the market and dominate it.
It's fascinating to look at the list. EVE Online is obviously the most successful sci-fi sandbox game while Runescape is the most successful fantasy sandbox game. Both games started way back in 2003 and 2001 respectively. Not many games fits in this definition of sandbox.
Current trend right now in the MMO industry is showing many players starting to get tired of themepark games. The huge market for an AAA 3D fantasy sandbox game is ripe for the taking. I think Everquest Next will seize the market and dominate it.
Wow... hype much? Have you learned nothing from all the games that have come out since you have started gaming?
It's fascinating to look at the list. EVE Online is obviously the most successful sci-fi sandbox game while Runescape is the most successful fantasy sandbox game. Both games started way back in 2003 and 2001 respectively. Not many games fits in this definition of sandbox.
Current trend right now in the MMO industry is showing many players starting to get tired of themepark games. The huge market for an AAA 3D fantasy sandbox game is ripe for the taking. I think Everquest Next will seize the market and dominate it.
Wow... hype much? Have you learned nothing from all the games that have come out since you have started gaming?
What do you mean? I was just making a comment because I was bored.
Comments
Could I get clarification on this?
In-depth resource system. A resource system is considered in-depth if items can be made from raw resources that influence the resulting item (either it's stats or it's appearance is okay)
Would this imply different quality grades of raw materials, that when used to make an item, change the item because of the quality grade used?
Hello XAPGames.
Yes, quality grades would be a possible implementation for an in-depth resource system, but not the only possible one. Let me give you two examples for games I'm familiar with, Wurm and Ryzom.
Wurm:
Arrows for example can be made out of every type of wood, however arrows made from cedar take less damage and arrows made from maple are easier to craft. Thus players need to balance availability of wood with wanted attributes. Likewise with bows: bows from willow are superior but willow trees are semi-rare. Thus players need to make choices.
Ryzom:
Leaves are used for clothing and armour, but different types of leaves have different attributes, not only in colour but also in protection factor, weight or flexibility. Thus players need to decide what they want, focus on something or try to balance things.
Just different examples of what I'd call an in-depth resource system.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
No AC1 then I am sorry this is not a sandbox list this is hey these are my sandbox games.
AC1 is very much sandbox. Everyone classes it as sandbox, in fact Darkfall was pretty much made up of UO and AC guilds all going on about the good old days.
Also Outer Empires no longer has iPhone and iPad support since it changed hands there is plans in the future but not yet. I love sandbox games played all on this list but you are missing some too.
Star Sonata 2 has everything you mentioned. I like this game way more the Outer Empires but also has way more features why is that not listed?
The only thing Star Sonata 2 fails on is open world you have to warp from gate to gate and this is only because once someone takes over the universe the whole universe is shuffled around at random. But then again you have to warp from gate to gate in EvE and Outer Empires.
Sandbox just means that you have the ability in the game to gather or loot materials and then create new items through a production process, and the ability to create persistent structures in the game like housing, etc. Character development is not part of the consideration.
With regards to "on rails", any good sandbox MMO should offer "on rails" content as an intuitive way to offer depth, content, lore/story and in general an alternative on how to spend their time.
All of the extra rules or requirements to define Sandbox is just the opinion of the OP.
Thanks a bunch. That helped quite a bit.
AC1 has been discussed extensively in this thread.
Thanks for the information, I didn't know. I'll update the list shortly.
It's not listed because no one had yet suggested it.
I'll have a look at it for the next update. Thanks for the info.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I must of suggested Star Sonata 2 in another Sandbox thread a while back I figured it was this one :P
http://www.starsonata.com
The game is way more in depth than they make out I do wish they would list all features. Also 2D/3D action based gameplay a little like S.P.A.Z. feel to it. I didn't know it had all features until I was about a week into the game desovering new things that I never knew about you are probably best checking the WIKI for most information.
Is this considered a necro to bump this thread? Shame to let it die.
Age of Wushu is launching today and would fit this list.
download free trial, gives you client. Upgrade to sub, problem fixed. Unless they changed it in the last year.
Currently bored with MMO's.
I think many on that list are not true sandbox games buy hybrid.
Fallen Earth isn't a sandbox game, it's hybrid.
WurmOnline is as sandbox as it gets.
It has two serious disqualifiers IMO, one being player progression is carried from one zone to the next higher level one, with the earlier ones becoming entirely useless. (and players are unable to access certain zones until they reach the appropriate level of progression)
This is almost a hallmark feature of the theme park design and a virtual anti-thesis to most sandbox games where a player really can access almost anywhere in the world at any level, even just starting out. (see EVE)
DAOC is a good virtual world MMORPG, but it shares this same characteristic making it more theme park than sandbox despite the fact it might qualify in some other areas.
Second, players can't really create/destroy structures, control territory or resources, (or deny others from obtaining them),
Basically, a players actions can't really have any impact on the game world that matters to others.
It's true, there are some fine lines being drawn in this thread, such as I think Fallen Earth probably doesn't really qualify, and if it does, then AC1 should be included as well.
But then, this isn't my list, it's the OPs and he gets the final decision.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree, Fallen Earth is most definetly a theme park with with some sandbox elements. Progression is on rails.
Not really, it is only as on rails as you choose it to be. There is no need to go from starter town to starter town. The only on rails part is going from section 1, to section 2 to section 3.
No classes, completely skill based - is the big one that VG does not have. I would call FE a sandbox with some themepark elements, that really only being a lot of quests.
Its on rails because you have a story which leads you to S5, and theres no real reason to hang around any of the earlier sectors. You must level up before you can attempt higher stuff. Compare that to EVE or Darkfall where everyone can do everything, anywhere.
Its not about access, its about what you can do there. I could go anywhere in Vanguard too, which didn't mean the area was meant for my level. In any number of MOBAs I can have access to high-level matches through high-level team mates. It doesn't mean I am supposed to be there. Null-sec, in Eve, is not meant for low SP characters. Neither is wormhole space. They have little to no business being there.
Access is not a good measure whether a game is sandbox or not. Is GW2 a sandbox?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
It is about gated content, and not so much about access. And can you go in GW2 to the high level PvE area at level 1? No you cant... you have to finish go through all others, and some have even min level to entry.
What? Last time I was playing only thing gated was the dungeons and personal story. You can certainly go to an area that is not not meant for your level. Just run there - if you can make it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Cant do dungeons unless you are a specific level. Gear is level and class limited.
What you just described is being on rails........... having 1 of a few starting cities then from that point being guided from hub to hub and ultimately with Fallen Earth from sector to sector. How does "no need to go from starter town to starter town" classify at all a lack of being on rails? You just described every mmo with multiple starting areas, none of them make you go to the other ones - they all funnel into a common location and then go from there. Vanguard actually has a lot more choices regarding where to go because of it's size.
Also while it's skill based it is still level based and I don't see us throwing The Secret World up there for having some of those qualities. After that they both have a few sandparkish elements like Vanguard with ship building, fishing, deeper crafting PRODUCTION MECHANIC, and diplomacy while Fallen Earth has farming, casino, etc etc
So again, they are very similar in terms of being sandparks - so either both should be on the list or neither.
It's fascinating to look at the list. EVE Online is obviously the most successful sci-fi sandbox game while Runescape is the most successful fantasy sandbox game. Both games started way back in 2003 and 2001 respectively. Not many games fits in this definition of sandbox.
Current trend right now in the MMO industry is showing many players starting to get tired of themepark games. The huge market for an AAA 3D fantasy sandbox game is ripe for the taking. I think Everquest Next will seize the market and dominate it.
Wow... hype much? Have you learned nothing from all the games that have come out since you have started gaming?
What do you mean? I was just making a comment because I was bored.