Ah, more speculation that Blizzard's itemization model is the only one that could ever possibly work.
We don't need to make the same game every time. Next topic.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't share her concerns. You can break a door in less than 20 seconds with battering rams. You get glory in sPvP that you can use to buy skins for your PvP char. Rewards should be given for how well you did, not for how long you did something.
When it comes to her 'suggestions' on pvp balance, I completely agree. I'm not sure she exactly thought through what she was asking for, but all of the balance changes she suggests would break world pvp. If they weakened keeps much more, there would really be no point in trying to defend them. They would be too easy to breach.
As for the rewards, I actually agree with her on this. I'm assuming she's talking about the copper, and not that she feels loot needs to be involved in addition. The way things stoon in the BWE, it was pretty difficult to avoid losing money in WvW. With the cost of repairs, and seige equipment, it made it almost necessary to switch back to PvE just to stock back up on cash, unless u were playing the market while PvPing.
It's also pretty difficult to loot in WvW, during any significant battles. Usually by the time things settle down your loot is gone. Would be nice is there was a toggleable option to just have it automatically go into your bags.
Other than that, and her assessment on ranged vs. melee, I agreed with her impressions. I was actually somewhat surprised.
The endgame in GW2 is a similar concept to the endgame in GW1, except its now even more with the WvW. Many people played GW1 for years.
There is also so little info out there about higher level zones and what sort of events they hold they we can't even begin to judge it yet. Is there going to be a zone like Underworld added or already in the game? That one zone kept people going for weeks doing 'only' that. Not to mention all the others that were added later in GW1 as well
Grinding for costemtics is the same as grinding for stat loot anyway. All you get in the end is a concept attached to an icon and/or 3d model. The only difference is you now have a choice whether you grind for them or not. It's all about how to approach it.
People will keep playing for the same reason every game now feels the need to add in achievements; community pride and being completionists.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Most of the things the OP complains about as negatives, to me are positives. I guess this game was made for me -- and I'm not alone.
Seems thats something people forget all too often. Just because they are a "reviewer of games" and have a spot in the media doesnt mean they speak the only truth and everything is fact not opinion. Things someone else finds as negatives may be positives for you, just like you dont always like the same foods as someone else.
Personally I find the level of rewards in V8 (WvWvW) more than enough. Everything you earn is equal to what you earn in PVE, the experience, the karma and the gold (copper). Plus on top of that, you also earn badges of honor, used to purchase PVP armor (i assume the best stuff in the game for PVP). You are already earning more in PVP than you do in PVE. Why would the money you earn be higher? Do you somehow think you deserve more? Also, as someone else pointed out, maybe not in this thread, honestly i cant remember, but all rewards scale with your level. That means that yes, you can enter V8 and PVP from level 1, you can even take that keep, but you are only going to get level 1 rewards. The items that drop will be for your level and the experience, karma and money you earn will be based off a level 1 also. When youre level 10, you earn more, level 20 even more. I stayed in V8 during the BWE from 1-20 on 3 different classes and never once did i feel like i needed more.
The showing names in V8 seem to really have struck a chord with some people, but even in the video she tells you exactly why Anet chose to do it this way, and I fully support it. Her complaint was that she couldnt harass the person that killed her because she doesnt know thier name. Well duh. Think they knew exactly what they were doing with this, and its why they have already said they are sticking by it and not changing it. The only people that are for it are the ones that usually end up getting together with a dozen of thier closest friends (read here as asshats) and go around ganking noobs and harassing other players making thier experience (usually thier first and last in PVP) as miserable as they posibly can. I foresee this kind of system becoming the new norm, with other MMOs following suit to make PVP more accessable to new players who want to learn the intricasies of PVP.
Everyone has thier opinions, and you just have to accept that they may not be the same as yours. Thats fine. And every game will always have its pros and cons, nothing is perfect. You just have to weigh them against each other and decide if theres enough pros to accept the cons for what they are and play anyways. If not, then this isnt the game for you, and luckily theres always another one coming.
Grinding for costemtics is the same as grinding for stat loot anyway. All you get in the end is a concept attached to an icon and/or 3d model. The only difference is you now have a choice whether you grind for them or not. It's all about how to approach it.
This, and it also makes sure that new players won't be facerolled by older ones just because they have bad gear. Nothing is worse in a PvP game that too feel to far behind "veteran" players that you actually know you will have a big disadvantage for weeks if not months before you finally caught up.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I get where the OP is coming from and i would be sure that anet will be keeping an eye out as the game progresses and will make adjustments/rewards/titles if and when needed..
As a longtime veteran gamer i am always looking beyond the first initial experience and can see GW2 keeping many veteran gamers that have nothing left to prove, competitive gamers and casual gamers alike happy for a good amount of time just as it is..
However as with all games at some point the original game product will start to grow stale even to hardened fans and we will have to wait and see how anet deals with it, as of right now everything we think about this games future is speculation and only anet holds the answer to how they will deal with avoiding the hemorrhaging of players at some point....
As far as anyone thinking anet will not care if they lose players due to this being a b2p game needs to re-evaluate how important player retention is to the very core of this game not mentioning expansion sales..
In this game a player empty world is not an option or fun and i suspect anet will stay on top of it..
I gave up looking for a permanent home years ago, naturally there weren't as many places (MMOs) to visit back in my EQ days, so it was easier to plant roots and settle in and that's what I assumed I needed.
If I get 3-6 months out of an MMO I'm thrilled.
Considering the quality of the rest of GW2, the fact that future content can be added to *any* level range and enjoyed by nearly all, ... there's a good chance GW2 will surprise me. I did not expect to like it nearly as much as I did.
All of that combined with the lack of a sub cost will probably have me hopping in and out for a long, long time.
Same for me on all counts. I would like to have seen (or possibly see in the future) the names in PvP rather than Red team, Green Team etc. I know servers swap every two weeks but that is based on progression. If your server is a little under the weather (points) you might end up paired on with one or more of the same servers. And the fact that for two weeks, you will be duking it out with the same folks over and over again.
Far from a game breaker but I do think character names have more value than some are giving them credit for.
Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.
So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.
I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.
The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.
You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it.
Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june
you do not understand the point. First let's talk about three facts taken from the thing called "reality":
1.There are enough MMOs out there with endgame-raiding-grinding-needmoreepix-stuff.
2. There are many players complaining about it.
3. Guildwars 1 has been very successfull without these mechanics. And there a still many players playing it.
So now people with those other things called "rational minds" at ArenaNet put these 3 facts together and drew the very logical conclusion:
The next MMO has to deliver fun without grinding and item-progression.
And think about it. Endgame in every MMO means you do the same things over and over again. But here comes the difference: What is better? To do the same thing over and over again, although you hate it and you feel like going to work? Or having the freedom to do whatever you like to do over and over again, because you like to have fun?
For me a game is just a game. If I play chess every day, because I like it, than it is ok. But I will never recieve better chess pieces with better "stats" as a reward for my invested playingtime, that give me a certain advantage over other players in PvP. No. I can leave my chessboard for 2 months and it will be exactly the same.
I and many other just want the same mechanics in an MMO. Easy like that.
2.)
I still do not understand why they disabled names in WvWvW. Half the fun in PvP is to know who you are fighting against, as she explained in the video. But maybe they will change this till release.
3.)
The doors are a problem, because they do not use enough siege-weapons. Now one problem is, that at low-level players do not have enough money to buy siege-weapons. So maybe this is not really a problem. However, the whole door-mechanic can be easily tuned by ArenaNet, so there is no reason to be concerned.
4.)
Nobody can look beyond the first levels currently, because the related content is not in the beta yet. That could be a problem, because many MMOs tend to deliver better polished starter-zones with the rest of the game being mediocre. In this case we just have to wait and see.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Finally someone that looks past the first experience.
Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system. A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.
On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.
Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.
THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.
Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving.
Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release. They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.
So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.
WvW reward are based on THE PVE level which was realy low in beta you get more money and so on as u lvl up and competitive pvp rewards glory which is used to purchase better looking pvp gear.
As for previous posters: the comparison with Doom and FF and whatever single player game with no loot is just plain wrong. Yes you had progression in those games. Your character progressed thru the game, thru the story. Until you killed the final boss or whatever. Then it was over. After you "finished" Doom, did you just reload the last floor 100 times to play it again and again and again, because "it was fun"? It was fun, no doubt, but now you did it, it's done.
That logic is pretty flawed. For one you're assuming Doom was only a single player game. I dunno about you, but my friends & I had a ton of fun doing multiplayer doom. That had huge replay value. It's not unlike counterstrike, you don't play just to get the AWP, and then go 'okay I have the best weapon, i'm gunna leave now'. Hell no. You play for a lot of different reasons. Customizing your character, trying to win, seeing how good you can get w/ any specific build. It's not as 1-dimensional as a gear treadmill. I don't understand why some people still have trouble seeing this. There are soo many examples of games that do not need a gear treadmill to be fun, and have replayability.
I would counter, however, that when my friends and I networked and played DOOM, it was the first time we had ever played a shooter online like that. Novelty, and the fact that we were not always playing it made the experience a lot more fun than it would be now.
In point of fact, whethter people like it or not, WoW and games like it--all the way back to the beginning of MMORPGs--have created this effect. If the GW2 experience is novel enough, new enough, then they can maybe get away with this. I hope they can, it would be awesome to have that new of an experience. But, player retention in the long term could be a challenge for them, just because of the way this community has evolved.
Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.
So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.
I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.
The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.
You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it.
Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june
Sorry with that reasoning TSW has even more to fear. On top of that there is Funcom's abyssmal track record when it comes to MMO's. Have fun playing your broken game
Care to clarify!?
There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing. I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.
What i find a bit ridiculous about this thread is the title.
Because honestly to me its pretty clear this girl don't go past her first experience, and she don't claim otherwise, its a preview, she took a long time to explain it at the very beginning of her video. Its certainly not an in dept video of the state of GW2, quiet the contrary, its about pure reaction of a new player trying the game for the first time.
Believe me OP you seam genuinely interested in GW2, if you want an in dept look at the state game watch the video i linked you in my preview post here.
Finally someone that looks past the first experience.
Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system. A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.
On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.
Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.
THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.
Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving.
Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release. They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.
So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.
WvW reward are based on THE PVE level which was realy low in beta you get more money and so on as u lvl up and competitive pvp rewards glory which is used to purchase better looking pvp gear.
The amount of coins does not matter, as coins will be useless to me for anything else but buying seige engines.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.
So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.
I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.
The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.
You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it.
Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june
Sorry with that reasoning TSW has even more to fear. On top of that there is Funcom's abyssmal track record when it comes to MMO's. Have fun playing your broken game
Care to clarify!?
There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing. I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.
I'm the other way, I"d rather play a broken version of GW2 than any other MMO, I want another beta!:(
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.
So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.
I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.
The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.
You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it.
Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june
To each their own then, I felt more satisfying character progression in GW2 than in anything post WoW in which you play one game to max level, then bang your head against the ceiling for months in a different game and the *only* occasional progression you even see is the same raid bought gear everyone else has anyway.
Even in Rift which supposedly offered a wide variety of builds, every class ended up the same up through Akylios anyway.
TSW? Really? I haven't seen many games that are less appealing.
Either way I don't think it matters, it's clear from the tone of your posts you're on a very specfic crusade rather than interested in rationally discussing things.
The amount of coins does not matter, as coins will be useless to me for anything else but buying seige engines.
I told you, i unlocked my best gear with glory points, now if you prefer doing something else with it, its you choice, but saying it give you no reward is false. Also if you buy siege engine with them and are doing well they should in fact gave you even more glory points at the end of said event, since how well you do in an event determine the amount of glory points you get.
I understand some of her points in the vid, but she lost me when she complained about the Battlegrounds being to stock and like "WoW". This is the same girl gushing over SWTOR battlegrounds and has tons of vids of her playing on the Alderaan and voidstar battlegrounds. Where are the same complaints about those "stock" "WoW" type battlegrounds?
I can get behind wanting more reward for PVPing in GW2 and making keep doors take less time to destroy, but it is Beta and these are things they may still be balancing and working on.
I do agree with the name tag issue. I got confused myself my first day in WvWvW as I thought I was watching a group of NPC's attacking a keep gate and it didn't dawn on me at all that they were actual players.
Finally someone that looks past the first experience.
Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system. A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.
On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.
Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.
THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.
Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving.
Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release. They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.
So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.
OK, someone shares the same opinion as you on the game or helps you justify your own opinion on the game? What now? A giant wall of text affirming that? For what reason do you feel forced to have your opinion justified in the public court of opinion?
You don't like it, OK don't play it.
It's OK. No one is going to come to your house in the middle of the night and take you away.
Probably she autoattacked her way through the keep, thus being rewarded only a couple of copper pieces. My experiences differ from her and I could pay other weapons with the money I got from WvW.
Right now I am mostly concerned with possibility of OP AOE and ranged attacks ( especially in 3W pvp ), game performence with large groups of players in the same area and 3W and not enough dodge energy.
Probably she autoattacked her way through the keep, thus being rewarded only a couple of copper pieces. My experiences differ from her and I could pay other weapons with the money I got from WvW.
Ye pretty much, i don't think WvW was made for japanese tourist to come picture the nice building and throw few aoe at a door. It is made for groups to build strategical play around taking maps defended by forts and castles over a few week match. So once more the op video is just a preview, nothing wrong here, but take it for what it is.
For me, the best part of DAOC PvP was the RR system. To be able to improve your character with new abilities through PvP was what kept me playing that game for years. When WAR came out I was happy to see a similar system but the stats you got from PvP in WAR were next to useless so they implemented it poorly.
When my friends and guildmates asked for my verdict on GW2 I said, " it was a great game but here's what your not going to like." Then proceeded to tell them about this very thing. It was an instant turn off for all of them. A few asked "Why keep playing at 80 if there is zero progression of any type"? I had no answer for them.
I'm not saying that people won't like this system. I'm just saying that myself, and everyone I've been playing games with for the last decade arn't too fired up about meaningless PvP for PvP's sake as an endgame.
I know myself and I can guarantee that I will play through this game once, stick around for a week or two after, then move on out of boredom if things stay as is.
I still dont understand the problem with name plates for the enemy.
No, Anet did not forget that part when they copied the RvR from DAOC, I cant believe they would just "forget" that. When I think about it, the answer seems to be community.
Anet has done alot to promote community and co-op, and I think having players not concentrating on the enemies name, and instead focusing on thier team, builds a stronger community and a better game.
Also, since we are facing a new server every 2 weeks, it makes even more sense.
Comments
oddly enough it was the realmpoint system that ruined daoc for me. Well that and TOA.
i think GW2 is on the right track. Id imagine they will have a content update every 3-6months or so and that will keep everyone playing.
if they are going to add bonuses, add it at the guild level, in terms of housing, etc and not player power.
you dont see last years team that won the superbowl get tazers for next year. They get a new stadium.
Ah, more speculation that Blizzard's itemization model is the only one that could ever possibly work.
We don't need to make the same game every time. Next topic.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
When it comes to her 'suggestions' on pvp balance, I completely agree. I'm not sure she exactly thought through what she was asking for, but all of the balance changes she suggests would break world pvp. If they weakened keeps much more, there would really be no point in trying to defend them. They would be too easy to breach.
As for the rewards, I actually agree with her on this. I'm assuming she's talking about the copper, and not that she feels loot needs to be involved in addition. The way things stoon in the BWE, it was pretty difficult to avoid losing money in WvW. With the cost of repairs, and seige equipment, it made it almost necessary to switch back to PvE just to stock back up on cash, unless u were playing the market while PvPing.
It's also pretty difficult to loot in WvW, during any significant battles. Usually by the time things settle down your loot is gone. Would be nice is there was a toggleable option to just have it automatically go into your bags.
Other than that, and her assessment on ranged vs. melee, I agreed with her impressions. I was actually somewhat surprised.
The endgame in GW2 is a similar concept to the endgame in GW1, except its now even more with the WvW. Many people played GW1 for years.
There is also so little info out there about higher level zones and what sort of events they hold they we can't even begin to judge it yet. Is there going to be a zone like Underworld added or already in the game? That one zone kept people going for weeks doing 'only' that. Not to mention all the others that were added later in GW1 as well
Grinding for costemtics is the same as grinding for stat loot anyway. All you get in the end is a concept attached to an icon and/or 3d model. The only difference is you now have a choice whether you grind for them or not. It's all about how to approach it.
People will keep playing for the same reason every game now feels the need to add in achievements; community pride and being completionists.
Seems thats something people forget all too often. Just because they are a "reviewer of games" and have a spot in the media doesnt mean they speak the only truth and everything is fact not opinion. Things someone else finds as negatives may be positives for you, just like you dont always like the same foods as someone else.
Personally I find the level of rewards in V8 (WvWvW) more than enough. Everything you earn is equal to what you earn in PVE, the experience, the karma and the gold (copper). Plus on top of that, you also earn badges of honor, used to purchase PVP armor (i assume the best stuff in the game for PVP). You are already earning more in PVP than you do in PVE. Why would the money you earn be higher? Do you somehow think you deserve more? Also, as someone else pointed out, maybe not in this thread, honestly i cant remember, but all rewards scale with your level. That means that yes, you can enter V8 and PVP from level 1, you can even take that keep, but you are only going to get level 1 rewards. The items that drop will be for your level and the experience, karma and money you earn will be based off a level 1 also. When youre level 10, you earn more, level 20 even more. I stayed in V8 during the BWE from 1-20 on 3 different classes and never once did i feel like i needed more.
The showing names in V8 seem to really have struck a chord with some people, but even in the video she tells you exactly why Anet chose to do it this way, and I fully support it. Her complaint was that she couldnt harass the person that killed her because she doesnt know thier name. Well duh. Think they knew exactly what they were doing with this, and its why they have already said they are sticking by it and not changing it. The only people that are for it are the ones that usually end up getting together with a dozen of thier closest friends (read here as asshats) and go around ganking noobs and harassing other players making thier experience (usually thier first and last in PVP) as miserable as they posibly can. I foresee this kind of system becoming the new norm, with other MMOs following suit to make PVP more accessable to new players who want to learn the intricasies of PVP.
Everyone has thier opinions, and you just have to accept that they may not be the same as yours. Thats fine. And every game will always have its pros and cons, nothing is perfect. You just have to weigh them against each other and decide if theres enough pros to accept the cons for what they are and play anyways. If not, then this isnt the game for you, and luckily theres always another one coming.
This, and it also makes sure that new players won't be facerolled by older ones just because they have bad gear. Nothing is worse in a PvP game that too feel to far behind "veteran" players that you actually know you will have a big disadvantage for weeks if not months before you finally caught up.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I get where the OP is coming from and i would be sure that anet will be keeping an eye out as the game progresses and will make adjustments/rewards/titles if and when needed..
As a longtime veteran gamer i am always looking beyond the first initial experience and can see GW2 keeping many veteran gamers that have nothing left to prove, competitive gamers and casual gamers alike happy for a good amount of time just as it is..
However as with all games at some point the original game product will start to grow stale even to hardened fans and we will have to wait and see how anet deals with it, as of right now everything we think about this games future is speculation and only anet holds the answer to how they will deal with avoiding the hemorrhaging of players at some point....
As far as anyone thinking anet will not care if they lose players due to this being a b2p game needs to re-evaluate how important player retention is to the very core of this game not mentioning expansion sales..
In this game a player empty world is not an option or fun and i suspect anet will stay on top of it..
Playing GW2..
Far from a game breaker but I do think character names have more value than some are giving them credit for.
Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.
So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.
I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.
The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.
You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it.
Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june
Lord Bachus,
1.)
you do not understand the point. First let's talk about three facts taken from the thing called "reality":
1.There are enough MMOs out there with endgame-raiding-grinding-needmoreepix-stuff.
2. There are many players complaining about it.
3. Guildwars 1 has been very successfull without these mechanics. And there a still many players playing it.
So now people with those other things called "rational minds" at ArenaNet put these 3 facts together and drew the very logical conclusion:
The next MMO has to deliver fun without grinding and item-progression.
And think about it. Endgame in every MMO means you do the same things over and over again. But here comes the difference: What is better? To do the same thing over and over again, although you hate it and you feel like going to work? Or having the freedom to do whatever you like to do over and over again, because you like to have fun?
For me a game is just a game. If I play chess every day, because I like it, than it is ok. But I will never recieve better chess pieces with better "stats" as a reward for my invested playingtime, that give me a certain advantage over other players in PvP. No. I can leave my chessboard for 2 months and it will be exactly the same.
I and many other just want the same mechanics in an MMO. Easy like that.
2.)
I still do not understand why they disabled names in WvWvW. Half the fun in PvP is to know who you are fighting against, as she explained in the video. But maybe they will change this till release.
3.)
The doors are a problem, because they do not use enough siege-weapons. Now one problem is, that at low-level players do not have enough money to buy siege-weapons. So maybe this is not really a problem. However, the whole door-mechanic can be easily tuned by ArenaNet, so there is no reason to be concerned.
4.)
Nobody can look beyond the first levels currently, because the related content is not in the beta yet. That could be a problem, because many MMOs tend to deliver better polished starter-zones with the rest of the game being mediocre. In this case we just have to wait and see.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
WvW reward are based on THE PVE level which was realy low in beta you get more money and so on as u lvl up and competitive pvp rewards glory which is used to purchase better looking pvp gear.
I would counter, however, that when my friends and I networked and played DOOM, it was the first time we had ever played a shooter online like that. Novelty, and the fact that we were not always playing it made the experience a lot more fun than it would be now.
In point of fact, whethter people like it or not, WoW and games like it--all the way back to the beginning of MMORPGs--have created this effect. If the GW2 experience is novel enough, new enough, then they can maybe get away with this. I hope they can, it would be awesome to have that new of an experience. But, player retention in the long term could be a challenge for them, just because of the way this community has evolved.
Care to clarify!?
There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing. I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.
What i find a bit ridiculous about this thread is the title.
Because honestly to me its pretty clear this girl don't go past her first experience, and she don't claim otherwise, its a preview, she took a long time to explain it at the very beginning of her video.
Its certainly not an in dept video of the state of GW2, quiet the contrary, its about pure reaction of a new player trying the game for the first time.
Believe me OP you seam genuinely interested in GW2, if you want an in dept look at the state game watch the video i linked you in my preview post here.
The amount of coins does not matter, as coins will be useless to me for anything else but buying seige engines.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I'm the other way, I"d rather play a broken version of GW2 than any other MMO, I want another beta!:(
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
To each their own then, I felt more satisfying character progression in GW2 than in anything post WoW in which you play one game to max level, then bang your head against the ceiling for months in a different game and the *only* occasional progression you even see is the same raid bought gear everyone else has anyway.
Even in Rift which supposedly offered a wide variety of builds, every class ended up the same up through Akylios anyway.
TSW? Really? I haven't seen many games that are less appealing.
Either way I don't think it matters, it's clear from the tone of your posts you're on a very specfic crusade rather than interested in rationally discussing things.
I told you, i unlocked my best gear with glory points, now if you prefer doing something else with it, its you choice, but saying it give you no reward is false. Also if you buy siege engine with them and are doing well they should in fact gave you even more glory points at the end of said event, since how well you do in an event determine the amount of glory points you get.
I understand some of her points in the vid, but she lost me when she complained about the Battlegrounds being to stock and like "WoW". This is the same girl gushing over SWTOR battlegrounds and has tons of vids of her playing on the Alderaan and voidstar battlegrounds. Where are the same complaints about those "stock" "WoW" type battlegrounds?
I can get behind wanting more reward for PVPing in GW2 and making keep doors take less time to destroy, but it is Beta and these are things they may still be balancing and working on.
I do agree with the name tag issue. I got confused myself my first day in WvWvW as I thought I was watching a group of NPC's attacking a keep gate and it didn't dawn on me at all that they were actual players.
OK, someone shares the same opinion as you on the game or helps you justify your own opinion on the game? What now? A giant wall of text affirming that? For what reason do you feel forced to have your opinion justified in the public court of opinion?
You don't like it, OK don't play it.
It's OK. No one is going to come to your house in the middle of the night and take you away.
Probably she autoattacked her way through the keep, thus being rewarded only a couple of copper pieces. My experiences differ from her and I could pay other weapons with the money I got from WvW.
Right now I am mostly concerned with possibility of OP AOE and ranged attacks ( especially in 3W pvp ), game performence with large groups of players in the same area and 3W and not enough dodge energy.
Ye pretty much, i don't think WvW was made for japanese tourist to come picture the nice building and throw few aoe at a door. It is made for groups to build strategical play around taking maps defended by forts and castles over a few week match. So once more the op video is just a preview, nothing wrong here, but take it for what it is.
I agree with the OP for the most part.
For me, the best part of DAOC PvP was the RR system. To be able to improve your character with new abilities through PvP was what kept me playing that game for years. When WAR came out I was happy to see a similar system but the stats you got from PvP in WAR were next to useless so they implemented it poorly.
When my friends and guildmates asked for my verdict on GW2 I said, " it was a great game but here's what your not going to like." Then proceeded to tell them about this very thing. It was an instant turn off for all of them. A few asked "Why keep playing at 80 if there is zero progression of any type"? I had no answer for them.
I'm not saying that people won't like this system. I'm just saying that myself, and everyone I've been playing games with for the last decade arn't too fired up about meaningless PvP for PvP's sake as an endgame.
I know myself and I can guarantee that I will play through this game once, stick around for a week or two after, then move on out of boredom if things stay as is.
I still dont understand the problem with name plates for the enemy.
No, Anet did not forget that part when they copied the RvR from DAOC, I cant believe they would just "forget" that. When I think about it, the answer seems to be community.
Anet has done alot to promote community and co-op, and I think having players not concentrating on the enemies name, and instead focusing on thier team, builds a stronger community and a better game.
Also, since we are facing a new server every 2 weeks, it makes even more sense.