If you take a themepark and add sandbox elements it would be a hybrid. Some consider Vanguard a hybrid just for that reason. I'm not sure I agree but again.. considering you can build continental houses and ships I can see why
I would say it's a hybrid. But I would also say that Vanguard doesn't really dictate what you need to do to play. For the most part I've always ignored the quests in VAnguard.
Of course one can do that in lotro. However, in true themepark fashion, one can't go anywhere one wants in lotro as there are areas that will bar you if you are not oin the correct quest link.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If you take a themepark and add sandbox elements it would be a hybrid.
I think it would depend on the elements.
Any game that allows a player to follow their own goals or jump on a linear grand quest would definitly be a hybrid.
But just adding the ability to add housing doesn't really do much but add that ability.
I would go as far as to say that any sandbox game that added large linear quest lines would just be more of a sandbox game because it just adds another tool in the sandbox arsenal.
As I described above. Housing alone wouldn't do it. It depends on other factors that comes with "housing". Minecraft again is a sandbox and all you do is create. Digging fighting crafting is all means to that end
If you take a themepark and add sandbox elements it would be a hybrid.
I think it would depend on the elements.
Any game that allows a player to follow their own goals or jump on a linear grand quest would definitly be a hybrid.
But just adding the ability to add housing doesn't really do much but add that ability.
I would go as far as to say that any sandbox game that added large linear quest lines would just be more of a sandbox game because it just adds another tool in the sandbox arsenal.
As I described above. Housing alone wouldn't do it. It depends on other factors that comes with "housing". Minecraft again is a sandbox and all you do is create. Digging fighting crafting is all means to that end
I actually added an "as you noted" to that post. should have added that first.
However, it still doesn't speak to the "is it a sandbox" question.
I will assert that if a game leads you from one activity to another and limits what you can do as far as game play then it's not a sandbox. If you can choose what you want to do at any given time and can freely progress in any activity, regardless of your taking advantage of any of the other available activities, then it probably is a sandbox.
Being able to build structures is a sandbox element for sure but it doesn't make it a sandbox. Which I think we can agree on.
Just like LOTRO is not a sandbox because I can choose my activity but I am fairly limited in what I can do and where I can go unless I take advantage of many (most?) of the questlines.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
If the descriptor sandbox didn't come from the ability to manipulate the proverbial sand, where did it come from? Also why do other descriptors exist such as open world, free-roaming or non-linear? Can anyone show a statement from Bethesda describing their games as sandboxes, I've certainly never seen one. Nor Rockstar describing their games as sandboxes.
I've seen media do it, I've seen posters do it, but never the companies. In doing so it's turning the word into a buzzword, or slogan, not a description of actual game-play.
To my recollection the term spawned in RTS free-build modes, which were often dubbed sandbox modes in the menu. Since then the term has lost it's actual meaning because players use it as you are, to describe freedom, when that already had a "buzzword" Non-linear.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Of course it means that. Garrys mod being a sandbox is not an "opinion". That's pretty much a fact. If you don't like garrys mod as an example then lets go back to The Sims. Also a sandbox and not by my opinion. Again a fact if you look it up. The main feature of it is the foundation of any sandbox pure and simple. Just like using a mold in a real life sandbox, building a castle or pissing in it to create a moat. Why do you think the term 'sandbox' was coined for in the first place. What do you do in a sandbox? Play hide and seek?
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Of course it means that. Garrys mod being a sandbox is not an "opinion". That's pretty much a fact. If you don't like garrys mod as an example then lets go back to The Sims. Also a sandbox and not by my opinion. Again a fact if you look it up. The main feature of it is the foundation of any sandbox pure and simple. Just like using a mold in a real life sandbox, building a castle or pissing in it to create a moat. Why do you think the term 'sandbox' was coined for in the first place. What do you do in a sandbox? Play hide and seek?
Sandbox is not meant in a literal term. It refers to the mechanics of a sandbox meaning that you can play however you want. A sandbox game refers to a game world that offers free-roaming, open-ended, non-linear gameplay. You are of course welcome to define that style in whatever way that you want to, but the rest of the world most likely won't accept your definition. Just type in Skyrim and sandbox or GTA and sandbox, or even Assassin's Creed and sandbox and you will see thousands of returns.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things.
so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P
edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
I wouldn't waste your breath. Some people can never see beyond the words. The actual meaning of the words are way to deep for them.
OMG after all this years i still see players who say same game "is a wow clone"
You all need to understend all this mmo have start do be more and more the same becouse they have not same new ideas.Just becouse wow was 1 of the first mmo you cant say all the games are a clone.
Whai you dont say same new ideas about how you whant a mmo,and after i will see how much new things they can add.
I wait your answer;
Good point, but just for future reference (and someone can come in and correct me with a few other options as well if they feel the need):
WoW was not one of the first mmorpgs.
WoW borrowed from other mmorpgs.
------------<> Brief History <>------------
Networked games go back as far as Mazewar (1974).
However, for an mmorpg, assuming the definition of that term = online, and accessible from seperate IP addresses by more than 1 player, and, the world is persistant (it's running on a server):, and used actual graphics: so that's:
1. Accessible from seperate IP addresses by multiple users
For all the folks that worry about WoW clones, please be aware that there were plenty of other mmorpgs before World of Warcraft. Note that I placed Asheron's Call 2 in green to show a familiar user interface, along with their voice over instanced dungeon experiences that were all "cloned" into World of Warcraft.
I hope you are all wrong... I realize it uses the same Engine as SWTOR, but who in their right mind would turn a sandbox series into a themepark MMO? I just dont think they are that stupid.... Please God dont let them be that dense...
-"This time, saving the world from the awakening of ancient evil is only the beginning. What happens when hundreds or thousands of prophesied heroes all think that they should be Emperor?"
-The game is fully voice acted
-Third person perspective
-The game uses a hotbar to activate skills like other traditional MMOs
-Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like SWTOR
-The general art style is kind of like RIFT or Everquest 2
-You can't be a werewolf or vampire
-Crafting, alchemy, and soul stones will exist in an unrevealed form
-There will be Daedric Princes like Molag Bal, the primary antagonist, and Vaermina, "whose sphere of influence extends to the dream world and the nightmares of mortals", along with some unnamed others
-Constellations will be in the game a la Mundus stones (which work like guardian stones) and also give the answer to things like block puzzles where you step on the blocks in a certain order
-Tons of towns ranging from Imperial City, Windhelm, Daggerfall, Sentinel, Mournhold, Ebonheart, Elden Root, Shornhelm, Evermore, Riften, and a lot more
-Radiant AI will not be present
-There will be mounts, but no flying mounts
-Fast travel exists in the game in the form of wayshrines, which are also your ressurection point, and you can teleport from one wayshrine to any other wayshrine you have already visited
-There most likely won't be dragons
-Sneaking will be in the game, but how it is implemented is undecided
-They're not talking about pets right now
-There will be no player housing
-There will be no NPC romances or marriage
-"It needs to be comfortable for people who are coming in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."
-Features most of Tamriel including Skyrim, Morrowind, Summerset Isle, and Elseweyr.
-"Not all provinces are included in their entirety; Zenimax Online is keeping large areas inaccessible to save them for use as expansion content. Nonetheless, every major area is represented to some extent."
-As an example, Windhelm is fully implemented, but Winterhold and the mages' college won't be in at launch.
-There are three player factions:
--Ebonheart Pact: The Nords, Dunmer, and Argoninans
--Aldmeri Dominion: Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajit
--Daggerfall Covenant: Bretons, Redguard, and Orcs
-"Recreateing the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
-As such, the game uses a hubless design
-For example, you don't necessarily pick up a quest to do the following, but if you kill all the necromancers in an undead barrow, a shade you free at the end will reward you.
-However, to help you find these events, various NPCs you talk to will tell you where they are happening and put a marker pointing them on your map, which is obviously totally different than receiving a quest.
-Not all quests will have NPCs that indicate where they are
-The game uses MMORPG genre standards such as classes, experience points, and other traditional MMORPG progression mechanics, but they try to present it "around the core fantasy presented by traditiona Elder Scrolls games" such as traveling around and righting wrongs or seeking riches
-The game world is very large relative to Skyrim
-You can explore almost anything you can see
-the game is set 1000 years in the past
-You can't master every discipline
-The imperials are an enemy to all three factions, lead by the noble Tharn family and the King of Worms, Mannimarco, and are hatching a plot to take over all of Tamriel
-But BEHOLD, Mannicmarco is scheming with Daedric prince Molag Bal to take over the world behind the Tharn's back
-Also, your soul has already been stolen by Molag Bal, which is the reason you can come back from death over and over again, and the starting plot is that you're fighting Molag Bal to get your soul back from him
-Hitting the level cap takes about 120 hours
-Each faction has their own leveling content
-An example quest is the story of Camlorn, where you have to stop evil werewolves who have their eyes set on conquest. First, you have to do a "standard MMO kill and collection quest" to sto ghosts from attacking some mages and soldiers. The ghosts are reliving a battle that the werewolf leader was in. You summon a ghost to find out what's going on, and the ghost tells you to wear her dead husband's armor to re-experience the battle he died in. You then get transported hundreds of years into the past to fight this battle. During this battle, you can choose to save the dead man's wife or to pursue the Werewolf leader. ZeniMax chooses to save the man's wife, who then tells you that the Werewolf leader is weak to fire. This information is helpful when you fight him, but you don't actually need to do this quest before fighting the werewolf leader if you don't want to. Basically, you can skip parts of quest chains if you want, but you get some benefit for playing the whole thing. Also, whenever you go back to the town you just saved, everything there hails you as a hero.
-The game features three faction PvP where you fight to take over keeps and use trebuchets and other siege weapons to help do it. At the high end, you can have 100 v 100 battles. There are also farms and mines you can try to take over. Mots of this happens in Cyrodiil where your goal is to take over and hold the Imperial City to get faction wide bonuses for it. If you have played Dark Age of Camelot, this probably sounds familiar. For those who haven't, essentially the entire zone is a giant PvP area will all sorts of points of interest.
-The most accomplished PvP player on your faction becomes emperor whenever you take over the capital
-When you take over Cyrodiil, you will be able to adventure in it as a hostile city a la Kvatch
-The game will have raids and heroic modes for its dungeons as end game content in addition to faction PvP
-There is also balanced PvP for people who prefer eSports
-The game will also have high end public dungeons
-Public dungeons are essentially instances that aren't actually instanced, so anyone can be in them, so imagine a World of Warcraft dungeon that featured everyone on the server in the area instead of just your party
-There are standard instanced dungeons as well
-Back on the topic of the skillbar, you have a limited number of skills you can use at any given time, and can change them whenever you're out of combat
-The number of skills is equal to (paraphrase) "a light and heavy attack with your current weapon that take up the first two slots, a few more spells related to your class, and an ultimate in the last slot".
-The ultimate is used once you gain enough finesse, which is earned by doing well in combat
-You also get a bonus loot chest if you're soloing and max your finesse, and you can also build finesse by comboing with other players
-For example, a rogue can put oil on the ground that a mage can set on fire
-A fighter can also spin in the firestorm a mage puts down, which sends out fireballs
-If you've seen Guild Wars 2 videos, the above will seem familiar
-You can't combo with the abilities of enemy players though, so if an enemy faction player drops an oil slick, you can't set it on fire
-The Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood will be presented, but in what form isn't detailed as their contnet is hard to recreate in an MMO setting
-NPCs will try to work together and use player like behavior when fighting you, and (at least to my understanding) have stamina as well
-They want the AI to be good, so instead of enemies in a dungeon sitting around and waiting to be pulled, you will be attacked by the entire room and they will try to react to how you are playing
-The claim was not demo'ed to Game Informer
-You destroy dark anchors to gain reputation with the Fighter's Guild. They are large hooks that fall from the sky pseudorandomly and have Daedric guardians next to them. They are easier to kill with a group, and once destroyed, everyone who participated gets a reputation boost with the Fighter's Guild, and eventually nets you rewards like new skills and abilities.
-The combat model will not be real time due to latency
-The combat is based around a stamina bar which you can use to sprint, block, interrupt, and break incapacitating effects
-Blocking is the primary focus of these abilities, and can do things like stopping the secondary effects of attacks such as an ice spell slowing you
-Stamina also applies to PvP, so stamina management (and wearing down your enemy's stamina) is important, as your crowd control abilities might be on a long cooldown, and if you use them before the enemy player runs out of stamina, they will probably just block the effect
-ZeniMax feels that having the stamina bar will help break down the Holy Trinity as stamina allows you to do things like tank
-However, healing is still a big part of the game
-There is also no aggro mechanic in the game, which is part of the reason stamina blocking and healing exist
Alot of it sounds great. But there is no reason not to include player housing and real action combat. TERA pulls it off great. Cant the Hero Engine not handle it?
You are only 19 and more wiser then most of the older ones like me from the old EQ1 days on this forum. I wish more people around here would do their research like you do before expecting what a new MMO is going to be. If we had more gamers like you around who did their research we wouldnt have so many people being dissapointed and complaining that they got ripped off.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things. so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things. so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it. Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.
Two things...
1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Of course it means that. Garrys mod being a sandbox is not an "opinion". That's pretty much a fact. If you don't like garrys mod as an example then lets go back to The Sims. Also a sandbox and not by my opinion. Again a fact if you look it up. The main feature of it is the foundation of any sandbox pure and simple. Just like using a mold in a real life sandbox, building a castle or pissing in it to create a moat. Why do you think the term 'sandbox' was coined for in the first place. What do you do in a sandbox? Play hide and seek?
Sandbox is not meant in a literal term. It refers to the mechanics of a sandbox meaning that you can play however you want. A sandbox game refers to a game world that offers free-roaming, open-ended, non-linear gameplay. You are of course welcome to define that style in whatever way that you want to, but the rest of the world most likely won't accept your definition. Just type in Skyrim and sandbox or GTA and sandbox, or even Assassin's Creed and sandbox and you will see thousands of returns.
What stops players from free roaming in any MMO? People did that in Themeparks like EQ1 and Vanguard, and even vanilla WoW.How does that make it sandbox?
M'aiq is kind of sick of listening too all these imperials on here who think they know everything about everything & argue about pointless things like what they think a "sandbox" is. Thanks to you, M'iaq needs skooma now for his headache. M'aiq has observed all of you & says you are all right in your own way. M'aiq kindly asks too quite arguing about things that have nothing too do with this thread, and too move on to the topic at hand.
If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.
And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.
If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product. In that regard, yes, you made a clone.
You and I obviously view WOW comparisons differently when they're made in mainstream articles. WOW is simply the face of the MMO to the broader gaming public, they could say well it's like DAOC, but how many outside of the older MMO space are going to be able to relate to that message and understand it?
Please link me to an article were the developers for an upcoming MMO compare every feature of thier game to WoW and state that it will function just like WoW.
Even when theier features are and do resemble WoW, they don't tell you that.
Everything I read was just excuses for why the game will play exactly like wow, and that we should "give it a chance" because it's got the ES name on it. That may be ok for you, but not me.
If you're trying to sell me crap then tell me it's crap, don't try and sell me crap and say it's roses; I know the difference.
They could just make Morrowind with online play, and every single fan of ES would immediately know how to play it. Or do you really think you're not intelligent enough to "understand how to play" it if it didn't have "world of warcraft controls"?
BTW: I played DAoC. RVR is the only diffierence between WoW and DAoC. Everything about how those to games are played are the same. Were do you think Blizzard got the idea for instanced small team based BG's and the 40vs40 alterac valley? Blizzard didn't just copy EQ, they also copied DAoC. And blizzard never referenced their mechanics to any other MMO, other then to say that they "looked at what worked and what didn't" or "what was fun and what wasn't" and refined those aspects to create a better experience then previous MMO's offered.
err WOW battlegrounds are nothing like DAOC battlegrounds, DAOC battlegrounds are PERSISTENT, they are there to teach you RVR while leveling and not e"sport"y in anyway shape or form
WOW copied the instanced, fixed side, timed battle ground "match" from City of Heroes
And Arena from Guild Wars
PVE in DAOC is more akin to AC and EQ than to wow, its not Questhub->questhub->questhub->instance->quest hub
oh and wow style PVE instances - thats from Anarchy Online
I feel stupid asking this, but what do you all think this line means?
-The combat model will not be real time due to latency
I do not think I am hearing this right, but does this not mean turn based combat?
simply means it wont be FPS/TPS combat anymore, but tab target like WoW for example. You click/tab to select a target, and fire attack that go towards the target instead of aiming a crosshair at the target and firing.
I just wanted to pull a couple of lines of DSWBeef's list of game features that kind of summarize the complaints everyone has been offering;
1.) "Recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
^ This of course is damning, using WoW as the paradigm for the game system. If only, as other users have pointed out, because it set's a precedent and gives an impression. What impression and precedent? As Seven of Nine might say, Irrelevant.
2.) "-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"
^This is the only reference to "tab targeting", and doesn't necessarily construe such. Additionally, it's claim is justified. There is simply to much of a ping variation across the thousands of users who participate in these games to provide a purely free and unbiased reaction in game response. And while one may be able to argue either way, it really comes down to providing for the lowest common denominator. The difference between a ~24ms and ~1024ms is quite literally a second.
It does mean "turn based" though, in the sense that one would "compile" or "Que" up their moves and the server would execute them in the order they were received, sans errors.
I just wanted to pull a couple of lines of DSWBeef's list of game features that kind of summarize the complaints everyone has been offering;
1.) "Recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
^ This of course is damning, using WoW as the paradigm for the game system. If only, as other users have pointed out, because it set's a precedent and gives an impression. What impression and precedent? As Seven of Nine might say, Irrelevant.
all they are doing is cashing in on the whole "theampark" genra gw2 did it star wars did it now we see elder scrolls doing it...heres a question to ask? is there even a huge market for sandbox titles anymore? ..i see the light at the end of the tunnel and all i can see is arche age ..but the light at the end of that tunnel is quickly fadeing
Comments
How are people even getting any information on the game? Its probably 3 years from coming out...
I would say it's a hybrid. But I would also say that Vanguard doesn't really dictate what you need to do to play. For the most part I've always ignored the quests in VAnguard.
Of course one can do that in lotro. However, in true themepark fashion, one can't go anywhere one wants in lotro as there are areas that will bar you if you are not oin the correct quest link.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
As I described above. Housing alone wouldn't do it. It depends on other factors that comes with "housing". Minecraft again is a sandbox and all you do is create. Digging fighting crafting is all means to that end
I actually added an "as you noted" to that post. should have added that first.
However, it still doesn't speak to the "is it a sandbox" question.
I will assert that if a game leads you from one activity to another and limits what you can do as far as game play then it's not a sandbox. If you can choose what you want to do at any given time and can freely progress in any activity, regardless of your taking advantage of any of the other available activities, then it probably is a sandbox.
Being able to build structures is a sandbox element for sure but it doesn't make it a sandbox. Which I think we can agree on.
Just like LOTRO is not a sandbox because I can choose my activity but I am fairly limited in what I can do and where I can go unless I take advantage of many (most?) of the questlines.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry%27s_Mod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
Like I said before, you are welcome to have your own opinion as to what a sandbox is, but don't expect it to be the widely accepted opinion.
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
If the descriptor sandbox didn't come from the ability to manipulate the proverbial sand, where did it come from? Also why do other descriptors exist such as open world, free-roaming or non-linear? Can anyone show a statement from Bethesda describing their games as sandboxes, I've certainly never seen one. Nor Rockstar describing their games as sandboxes.
I've seen media do it, I've seen posters do it, but never the companies. In doing so it's turning the word into a buzzword, or slogan, not a description of actual game-play.
To my recollection the term spawned in RTS free-build modes, which were often dubbed sandbox modes in the menu. Since then the term has lost it's actual meaning because players use it as you are, to describe freedom, when that already had a "buzzword" Non-linear.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The guy on page two who stated all the ACTUAL FACTS ABOUT THIS GAME kind of just pulled a /thread. This game is not a WoW clone, no where close to it.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Of course it means that. Garrys mod being a sandbox is not an "opinion". That's pretty much a fact. If you don't like garrys mod as an example then lets go back to The Sims. Also a sandbox and not by my opinion. Again a fact if you look it up. The main feature of it is the foundation of any sandbox pure and simple. Just like using a mold in a real life sandbox, building a castle or pissing in it to create a moat. Why do you think the term 'sandbox' was coined for in the first place. What do you do in a sandbox? Play hide and seek?
Sandbox is not meant in a literal term. It refers to the mechanics of a sandbox meaning that you can play however you want. A sandbox game refers to a game world that offers free-roaming, open-ended, non-linear gameplay. You are of course welcome to define that style in whatever way that you want to, but the rest of the world most likely won't accept your definition. Just type in Skyrim and sandbox or GTA and sandbox, or even Assassin's Creed and sandbox and you will see thousands of returns.
I wouldn't waste your breath. Some people can never see beyond the words. The actual meaning of the words are way to deep for them.
Good point, but just for future reference (and someone can come in and correct me with a few other options as well if they feel the need):
WoW was not one of the first mmorpgs.
WoW borrowed from other mmorpgs.
------------<> Brief History <>------------
Networked games go back as far as Mazewar (1974).
However, for an mmorpg, assuming the definition of that term = online, and accessible from seperate IP addresses by more than 1 player, and, the world is persistant (it's running on a server):, and used actual graphics: so that's:
1. Accessible from seperate IP addresses by multiple users
2. Persistant world run on a server
3. Graphics
A. Island of Kesmai (12$ per hour and supported 100 players) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Kesmai 1982
B. Habitat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitat_(video_game) 1986
----------------------
For the first truly graphical full mmorpg feel:
A. Neverwinter Nights 1991-1997 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)#cite_note-59thEmmys-2
---------------------
A few games came out after that, i.e.,
Ultima - 1997
Everquest - 1999
Asherons Call - 1999
Anarchy Online - 2001
Dark Age of Camelot - 2001
Asheron's Call 2 - 2002
Shadowbane - 2003
Everquest 2 - 2004
------------------------------------------
World of Warcraft - 2004
For all the folks that worry about WoW clones, please be aware that there were plenty of other mmorpgs before World of Warcraft. Note that I placed Asheron's Call 2 in green to show a familiar user interface, along with their voice over instanced dungeon experiences that were all "cloned" into World of Warcraft.
http://www.killtenrats.com/images/ac2/ac2cap3.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvZ_XPvLx60 and watch 1:06 on to see the WoW graphics.
Wow was an Asheron's Call 2 clone (not really), but it was similar enough for a lot of folks to say, hey, "Asheron's Two is a WoW clone!!"
Don't even get me started on how WoW cloned Ultima Online's Oddyssey project (died in 2003-2004).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6B63lCNL2E
You are only 19 and more wiser then most of the older ones like me from the old EQ1 days on this forum. I wish more people around here would do their research like you do before expecting what a new MMO is going to be. If we had more gamers like you around who did their research we wouldnt have so many people being dissapointed and complaining that they got ripped off.
*raises a coffee to you brother
Two things...1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry%27s_Mod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
Like I said before, you are welcome to have your own opinion as to what a sandbox is, but don't expect it to be the widely accepted opinion.
But going by the open world part of your definition of sandbox, TES still wouldn't apply, since it also has load screen and zoning.Also interesting thought, by your post in the quote, a sandbox isn't allowing player to change the world, but to play freely the way they like.
This seem to apply to any MMO, including THEMEPARK. For example.
Is TSW a sandbox? Can't change the world, but you can sure play freely. Can't be THEMEPARK right?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Two things...1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.
2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.
You have no idea what you are talking about and have a very confused definition of what a sandbox is and what an open world is.
An OPEN WORLD refers to the environment refers to the game environment itself and the lack of artificial barriers like loading screens and invisible walls that are common in games with linear levels.
A SANDBOX refers more to game mechanics. In a sandbox a person is allowed to play creatively in a non-linear fashion. There is no right way to play the game. They provide the world in which you can choose how you want to play. Often in games like GTA or TES there might be a story line, but that is completely optional. Basically, the environment, NPC's, monsters, and items are your sand.
Neither GTA or TES are sandbox games. In order to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameword and not just the story. Example: skill progression compliments a sandbox because it offers freedom but its not a defining feature. Playing how you like is not a sandbox feature either. It just compliments it. There is a difference even if you don't see it.
In order for a game to be a sandbox you have to be able to alter the gameworld either build, create or tear down. Garys mod is a sandbox, The sims is a sandbox. TES is not a sandbox no matter how much the devs want to label their game as such. There are many developers that labels their games just because they want to sell more copies. Hellgate London was advertised as a MMO even though it was a lobby arpg. There are plenty of examples of developers hyping their game with labels so I wouldn't put stock into that.
Nope. That might be your idea of sandbox, but not the industry's. You should really do some reading. The sand in the sandbox is not being able to build something. The mechanics allowing you the freedom to play your way is the proverbial sand. You can have your skewed view of what a sandbox is, but the rest of the world works off a different definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry%27s_Mod
Will you just stop using Gary's Mod as an example.
Its a Mod for Valves First Person games like HalfLife2 and all it does is give you 2 tools to use to manipulate the games enviroment. You CANT change the character of Gordon Freeman at all
You are also taking the term "Sandbox" too literally.
"Sandbox" doesnt refer to the ability to move sand around.
Think of it more like an Artists Sketchpad. Blank sheet of paper that YOU can "Draw What You Want" as opposed to some Teacher telling you to "Draw a Tree and Birds or an Apple on a Plate"
Although thinking about it, my example of a sketchpad will probably be too literal for you as well so Im not going to try and explain further because you are obviously too obtuse.
Of course it means that. Garrys mod being a sandbox is not an "opinion". That's pretty much a fact. If you don't like garrys mod as an example then lets go back to The Sims. Also a sandbox and not by my opinion. Again a fact if you look it up. The main feature of it is the foundation of any sandbox pure and simple. Just like using a mold in a real life sandbox, building a castle or pissing in it to create a moat. Why do you think the term 'sandbox' was coined for in the first place. What do you do in a sandbox? Play hide and seek?
Sandbox is not meant in a literal term. It refers to the mechanics of a sandbox meaning that you can play however you want. A sandbox game refers to a game world that offers free-roaming, open-ended, non-linear gameplay. You are of course welcome to define that style in whatever way that you want to, but the rest of the world most likely won't accept your definition. Just type in Skyrim and sandbox or GTA and sandbox, or even Assassin's Creed and sandbox and you will see thousands of returns.
What stops players from free roaming in any MMO? People did that in Themeparks like EQ1 and Vanguard, and even vanilla WoW.How does that make it sandbox?Philosophy of MMO Game Design
M'aiq is kind of sick of listening too all these imperials on here who think they know everything about everything & argue about pointless things like what they think a "sandbox" is. Thanks to you, M'iaq needs skooma now for his headache. M'aiq has observed all of you & says you are all right in your own way. M'aiq kindly asks too quite arguing about things that have nothing too do with this thread, and too move on to the topic at hand.
M'aiq Thanks you Kindly.
*Twitchs*
err WOW battlegrounds are nothing like DAOC battlegrounds, DAOC battlegrounds are PERSISTENT, they are there to teach you RVR while leveling and not e"sport"y in anyway shape or form
WOW copied the instanced, fixed side, timed battle ground "match" from City of Heroes
And Arena from Guild Wars
PVE in DAOC is more akin to AC and EQ than to wow, its not Questhub->questhub->questhub->instance->quest hub
oh and wow style PVE instances - thats from Anarchy Online
I feel stupid asking this, but what do you all think this line means?
-The combat model will not be real time due to latency
I do not think I am hearing this right, but does this not mean turn based combat?
simply means it wont be FPS/TPS combat anymore, but tab target like WoW for example. You click/tab to select a target, and fire attack that go towards the target instead of aiming a crosshair at the target and firing.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I just wanted to pull a couple of lines of DSWBeef's list of game features that kind of summarize the complaints everyone has been offering;
1.) "Recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."
^ This of course is damning, using WoW as the paradigm for the game system. If only, as other users have pointed out, because it set's a precedent and gives an impression. What impression and precedent? As Seven of Nine might say, Irrelevant.
2.) "-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"
^This is the only reference to "tab targeting", and doesn't necessarily construe such. Additionally, it's claim is justified. There is simply to much of a ping variation across the thousands of users who participate in these games to provide a purely free and unbiased reaction in game response. And while one may be able to argue either way, it really comes down to providing for the lowest common denominator. The difference between a ~24ms and ~1024ms is quite literally a second.
It does mean "turn based" though, in the sense that one would "compile" or "Que" up their moves and the server would execute them in the order they were received, sans errors.
My personal opinion, I shall preserve.
Huge seamless continent???
RIP Orc Choppa
It was awkwardly worded, but all it means is that the game will feature tab-target combat, not FPS-style combat due to lag discrepencies.
all they are doing is cashing in on the whole "theampark" genra gw2 did it star wars did it now we see elder scrolls doing it...heres a question to ask? is there even a huge market for sandbox titles anymore? ..i see the light at the end of the tunnel and all i can see is arche age ..but the light at the end of that tunnel is quickly fadeing