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Do you think [mod edit] SWTOR changed MMO gamers?
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
When I read the many angry and negative posts about Elder Scrolls Online, I wonder if the fail of SWTOR just finally turned the perception of MMO gamers. I know those who preached the failure of MMOs had been few in these forums. Of course some did always warn and point the fingers on design errors and flaws. But by and large fans seemed to have to upper hand. Now TESO has barely been announced and already a shitstorm in upon them. I guess the people working on TESO for years by now must be really smitten, teh.
From my point of view, I think SWTOR really woke up people that some lazy ideas and "play it all safe", sticking to the known and proven WOW-model just isn't good enough. As DarkPony pointed out so well in his blog, we gamers just got older, but games did not evolve with us. I think SWTORs failure to capitalize on the experience of MMOs of the last year really opened many players eyes. Finally, I can only say. As someone who for many years was in the minority of critics todwards the MMO trends, I am kinda glad to see people now are less blind to cheap design methods of the past. If that were so, the failure of SWTOR would at least have some good. 
Opinions?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Fail? When did this happen?
By the way, go see The Avengers. Its awesome, and it might take your mind off of TOR for a while.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I would agree that many more gamers are skeptical these days. It seem like the games that we want to play are just not being made. I think the problem lies with the explosion of the gaming industry.
Games take a bazillion dollars to make, especially AAA titles like SWTOR. The problem is that with a pricetag like that, no one is going to take a risk and try something new for risk of losing a ton of money. We are seeing this over and over. The problem is that the games that are going to the "safe and easy" route are failing as well. If I were attempting to make an MMO out of a favorite IP, I would be scared to death.
The next big thing is not going to be a familiar IP with all the high expectations and price. It's going to be something new and cheap and INNOVATIVE.
To us, SWTOR is a failure, it may be losing subs, but it made an enormous amount money in its first 6 months. So, I dont really see how the industry doesn't just keep doing it. FOr there are enough gamers now who will keep playing those type of games to float them.
The trend you should be calling for is an end to preorders. If players would stop doing that, that would be a far more effective message that somethign is wrong. Cuz it was the preorders that proved SWTOR a success.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I agree witth both statements. The Avengers was pretty awesome
Even though I hate SWTOR as much as the next guy around here, I don't think it exactally "failed". Actually it's doing quite well from the stats I've heard. Anyways, hopefully some of the upcoming games that are trying to change things will open up producers to more innovative game design, but that's just me being a wishful thinker.
There will always be people that will complain about anything- it gives them something to do. Regarding TOR, I think the only thing it has done (along with ME:3) is show players that when EA assimilates a developer nothing but EA remains.
If TOR really had an impact I think we'd see fewer pre-orders and pre-purchases in MMOs but that certainly isn't the case. There will seemingly always be players that will throw money at games because they are the "next big thing."
I do not discuss the question if SWTOR is or is not a fail. I respect if someone disagrees, but at least here we can be pretty sure those who do see it as fail are the majority.
Please stick to the topic.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I still play the game and I'm still having fun. Didn't fail to me
And I'm still going to pre-order cause I know what I'm buying.
Yes I played SWTOR.
Any change won't be felt for 3+ years. It takes time to make an MMO.
Edit: Look at ES online, it is another themepark grinder and it won't be released for more than an year still. If ES fails like Swtor though, I'm pretty sure the developers will start to get the message (even moreso if GW2 is a success).
I hope it helps people redefine what -AAA- is supposed to mean. Instead of just slapping these fiat ratings on anything with some new shinny..
People need to be self informed. Don't always think the new #trend is the thing to do..
In all aspects of life..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
SWTOR hasn't failed yet. There's still some hope for them. A killer expansion with amazing space combat or converting to a GW2 B2P model are two possibilities.
Sandboxers will hate any Theme Park MMO. AAA Theme Park MMO's need to release with current standard features and improve the genre in some way.
Okay - the perception here will not cause designers to change given that
1 SWTOR is the Number 2 MMO in America
2 SWTOR has been the number 1 seller globally in half the weeks since release - in top 3 the other weeks.
3 SWTOR has made a ton of money.
Not much else to be discussed unless you want to change subject about will the actual success cause companies to create more SWTOR/WoW clones
Swtor is going the way of AoC and WAR, nice launch day box sales, then a very steep sub decline within the first few months.
Considering BW had the money, time, and IP and still released a sub-par game, I wouldn't get my hopes up that they will release an awesome expansion or even fix the problems they currently have.
Swtor will go the way of WAR once EA starts crunching the numbers, maintenance only with bugs and other issues that exsist for years.
I find it amazing with your arrogant attitude toward the millions of us who enjoy swtor and Biowares amazing products. Bioware set out to do what it does best and that is make a great story with great production values and mmo elements. If you and many others see swtor as a failure that is ok, however don't lump the rest of us into your morass. mmorpg.com while i enjoy the site is filled with haters of every game including Tera, pre and post cu swg, wow, eve, etc, etc
Holy shit Elikal, really? I am honestly disappointed in you, not that you care. Thought you were better than this. You of all people here acting like you are the arbiter of all that is correct and right in the MMO world. That just because SOME people on a site that hates ALL MMO's since DAoC thinks that a game is "fail" IN THEIR OPINION means it is written in stone. And when someone rightly points out you are wrong you tell them "can't talk about that because it does not agree with my mindset".
Honestly I can't believe you would post such shit as this obvious troll topic is and feel good about yourself.
Sticking to your troll topic: Yes it has. It has shown that some people would bitch if their ass was wiped for them. It has shown that you cannot please everybody. It has shown that those that are not pleased will cry FAIL and expect everyone to agree with them.
Is that the answer you were looking for? Another "Spotlight Post" to add to your count?
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Agreed!, and this is a spotlight poster? of what?
Well I actually understand what hes saying. I dont get it either why people are bashing Elder scrolls. As for TOR people need to realize that not to many people bashed it when it was announced, if anything the majority of the people were happy and excited. It wasent until beta and then when the game was released that people realized that it was like Ferrari making Lada. Sure it works and people play it, but lets be realistic here and agree that the money that was put into it and the outcome of what they actually produced was a fail.
I dont think its change. Look at TESO. Theyre doing the exact same thing. I think whats going on is the age of MMO players who started(with WoW/Ultima) are older and now these games dont satisfy our gaming needs. The companies try to recreate what we thought was fun (years ago) instead of creating new games. If anything I think SWTOR is just another sign the MMO market is stagnant.
It is the only mmo out there with a good story, The space game right now is a fail but Bioware has a chance to improve that and I hope they will
Yeah, cuz Knights of the Old Republic is a much better story than say..oh I dont know.. Lord of the Rings?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Sorry I dont agree with you. This is to each their own. One person might love the story in WOW and hate TOR, or the other way around. There is a lot of MMO's out right now with great stories.
If you are talking about how the story is provided to you then that is another to each their own, because a lot of people including my self hate the fact they brought in stupid cut scenes to the MMO genre.
Technically 1.7 mill sub no. at realease isn't millions. Which they manipulated the numbers with the free play time or whatever it was a little while back to boost their sub image. Fact is people are losing intrest which GW2 and TSW will make it worse or more evident. TERA has jsut released so willing to bet there will be a good number of canxed subs this month or from last month. People are already wanting server merges just like Rift a few months after release.
Thought the trooper story was corney as hell while the smuggler was awesome sauce. However some things made no sense... a tropper or smugler going toe to toe with a Sith jedi whatever or a bounty hunter or IA toe to toe with a Jedi is beyond ridiculousness. You don't see Han or Leya go toe to toe with Vader or the Emperor.
Honestly I get why people are bashing the Elder Scrolls mmo cinsiderably better than why they ever bashed TOR.
Figure it this way. Bioware still made a game that catered to the way they make games. With a strong singleplayer focus and tons of narrative and people talking. The gameplay matched what's become the fomrula MMO gameplay, and that annoyed people, but even more so it just failed to live up to what the game could of and should have been for $200 million or so.
Now the Elder Scrolls MMO is announced and you have not only that same dynamic of generic gameplay, but you have to realize that it comes with a dramatic shift in narrative, player control and progression, and depth of interactivity with the game world. It's the same thing I'm gonna have to say about this title for the rest of it's existence, it managed to entirely alienate it's core fanbase and it isn't even out yet.
TOR can still be played by people who enjoy the core mechanics of a Bioware game. Because it still fundamentally contains the assets that define it as one. People moan about it, sure. Lots do. But the people that want a Star Wars MMO are a much more varied group than the people that want an Elder Scrolls one.
As for the other point. No I don't think TOR changed people's behavior towards games. They just spoke louder for the above mentioned reason. People who like Star Wars are a pretty damn big crowd, it's not just the Bioware fans that were looking forward to that game.
People for a while have been annoyed by this trend. When LotRO, Rift, Warhammer, and others came out you had the same kind of arguments being made and the same reasons people were disfavoring them, and yet the trend continues.
For example, look back on Diablo 3's development. How long have people been ranting about that game and it's only now about to be released? Since that first demo of the berserker running around and people commenting that the game looks too WoW-like and isn't 'dark enough' to be a Diablo game up to the changes and cutdowns on variety for player progression, there has been a constant negative parade of people on that game, yet that has failed to make any impact on the inevitable outcome.
It's because as far as a dev studio goes, what publishers and investors say is considerably more important than what players say. We don't pay their salary while they develop the game, their funding comes from other people. It's only gamers paying for their continued existence after the fact.
People have complained forever, TOR didn't change that.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I read eddieg50's statement with the bulk of the "millions" on "Bioware's amazing products," which he naturally separated SWTOR from as it certainly isn't one of Bioware's (RIP) amazing products.
Peoples definition of fail varies as much as the games themselves ---seems most people define fail as "a game that doesnt put wow out of business"
But i have seen a pattern over the past few years - game comes out and gets tons of subs.It loses some subs. Then some end all be all patch comes out usually within 6months,it seems to include new additions and old fixes and it regains some subs. Within a few months of that first BIG patch a server merge or transfer is offered. Usually by the end of the first year a new game comes out everyone flocks to that. Then more server merges. People start playing new game and hate on old game then rinse an repeat.
Once a new game comes out and pulls a big chunk of the pop away most people cry fail.