Alts are for people with way to much time on thier hands, and the avrage player should never feel the need to roll an alt to have fun in your game..
You miss people who like to try more classes than just 1 available class. In a class based MMO, you're forced to roll an alt if you want to give other classes and playstyles that interest you a try. I think that the average player likes to try out and even keep more than only 1 class and playstyle.
Same applies to faction.
I'm not missing it what I said was You should not feel the need to do it to keep playing the game.
If you want to try out diffrent classes that is your Option. Nobody is forcing you to do this. You do not need to do it you chose to do it that is a big diffrence you know...
You should be thinking in your mind: hmm would it not be fun to try this class out or see what this faction is about...
You should not be thinking: OMG I'm so horribly bored, maybe rolling another class will make this game more fun..
Do you understand what I'm getting at...
And about the time statement. It goes with content. You should not roll a new toon to get more content. Only roll it if you have the time to invest in another project, or just want to cheak it out for fun etc...
My Game setup would be
1. Its an RTS
2. You control a Warlord/Archwizzard etc
3. You have a castle/town that works like a sim city project. You get ressources, build new buildings, you recruit more troops.
4. The pve aspect spins around you getting more warriors/beasts/ressources to fuel your war efforts. This takes time and effort. By doing reserch/raiding dungeons to capture a Dragon to fight for you. Going through ruins to find lost Blue prints to manafacture new weapons and engines of WAR..
5. The PvP aspect is fighting and defending your Ressources and your lands from hostile players who want to take it away from you..
You can do both Pve and PVP in a group with other players.. form guilds etc...
The Game is all END GAME.... And it works around the principle that more you play the more OPTIONS you get.. These Options might not be uppgrades/power ups, but gives you the ablity to use MORE things and tactics. You become more versatile but not Overpowerd... It has to be made this way because if you get POWER UPS you soon crush everything below you. Giving you more Options is a better way to keep the game balanced.. Putting a hardcap on your War Posse is a must.. When you go out and PvP you can only use a set number of diffrent troop/monster/warmachine options. But if you have played for a long time your Options on what to bring are much more then for a player who has just started out...
You can also Tier it so at Tier 1 you have a small force and at Tier 4 you can bring a huge force ( Tier 4 would be the highest and you would have had to play the game for a while to be able to fight these types of PvP battles...)
Ohh, I think I get what your saying. Your talking about those rumored sandboxes aren't you? But but those require going beyond daily dungeons for tokens to get everything a player needs and require socialization beyond only making sure a group has the tank, healer, dps balance. I'm talking way beyond those things so how can sandboxes possibly be more fun? Gamers need one method to get everything there is or they will get bored right? Having choice and variety is so pre 2005 dude, catch up will ya? Ever since pure themepark games came out there are plenty of examples that gear grinds in daily dungeons is the only way to go. There hasn't been game after game fail that followed that method has there? Sandboxes are really the dead games so why even try making new ones? Hasn't all these successful themeparks proved that by now?
/sarcasm off
There is a new sandbox being made and it's looking good so far. It's actually being made by devs that actually play games and take input from other players. That's another forbidden thing isn't it? The devs themselves actively answering questions and considering changes to the game based on player input? Blasphemous right? Ohh, oops sorry I turned sarcasm back on.
It may sound like a shameless plug but check out TheRepopulation. It's not just an indy game, it's going to be the indy game that stands the best chance to turn this genre back around. No I'm serious, no sarcasm this time.
So much fail for 2nd largest MMO on western market...?
SWTOR is fine. From business perspective, it was probably too expensive to make tho.
With it being so expensive to make followed by a rapid decline already, make it a fail.
If it sustained people and stuck to 2 mill players it would still be the 2nd largest MMO, and would be a success but still be worse than WOW, but would not be a faiure. With 1.7 mill buying and playing the game at launch, it should have gotten more, way more, if it was a success. It is only still high because of that, and is only 6 months old.
Soon it will not be the 2nd largest MMO. It does not have the strength to keep going. At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be worse off than Aion, LOTRO, EVE, STO etc by next year
Originally posted by superniceguy With it being so expensive to make followed by a rapid decline already, make it a fail.If it sustained people and stuck to 2 mill players it would still be the 2nd largest MMO, and would be a success but still be worse than WOW, but would not be a faiure. With 1.7 mill buying and playing the game at launch, it should have gotten more, way more, if it was a success. It is only still high because of that, and is only 6 months old.Soon it will not be the 2nd largest MMO. It does not have the strength to keep going. At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be worse off than Aion, LOTRO, EVE, STO etc by next year
Does not change a thing about what I said nor make the game a "fail". Even with 500k subs, it will make profit and will be 2nd largest MMO on the market...just too expensive to make.
.... are waste of time & bad content for an MMORPG
TOR as clean wow clone should to be better than game made by bioware
And yet, TSW and GW2 have these, so do a few other games on a more limited level, like WoW and Lotro and all of them are GREAT...and not the real issue. Try again.
And yet, TSW and GW2 have these, so do a few other games on a more limited level, like WoW and Lotro and all of them are GREAT...and not the real issue. Try again.
I think that is one of the problems with TOR right there. Limited story cut scenes...not a damn scene for every quest.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It would be a diffrent game then annything that is on the market today. And we need change because games will keep tanking if they keep going in the Direction they are taking today. That is just a FACT, that is backed up by years of Failed atempts in the genre...
I'd agree with you but every beta I still play today its the same old crap......Games like Rift offered zero innovation...People that had not experienced these things in other games thought it was great, but those of us that were experienced in MMOs saw it brought absolutely nothing new to the table......Yet it did very well considering....Also for SWTOR how many other games have sold as many boxes as they have and had as many subs at one time?...Only a handful.....WHile the game may feel like a failure to them it is a success....THey've probably made their money already and then some.
With it being so expensive to make followed by a rapid decline already, make it a fail.
If it sustained people and stuck to 2 mill players it would still be the 2nd largest MMO, and would be a success but still be worse than WOW, but would not be a faiure. With 1.7 mill buying and playing the game at launch, it should have gotten more, way more, if it was a success. It is only still high because of that, and is only 6 months old.
Soon it will not be the 2nd largest MMO. It does not have the strength to keep going. At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be worse off than Aion, LOTRO, EVE, STO etc by next year
Does not change a thing about what I said nor make the game a "fail". Even with 500k subs, it will make profit and will be 2nd largest MMO on the market...just too expensive to make.
Saying that it is not a failure is not going to make it a sucess.
If you are liking SWTOR and do not feel it is a fail then fair enough, but it is a fail overall to the masses and to EA/Bioware. They would not be offering free trials if they were not in panic mode, and bleeding subs fast, nor would they take the game off of top priority. With the decline I doubt they will do any expansions now, and just stick with content updates, like what happened with SWG.
500K subs will only break even, they need plenty more to make profit. From the seems of things, they do not have or will not have even 500K subs. If they have 500K today they will not have that many in a few months time.
However it is not a fail as a game and when compared to single player games like Mass Effect 3, but it is a fail as P2P MMO like WOW or SWG, and where it is supposed to have a ten year lifespan as stated by EA. Why have so many people from 2 mill decide not to sub to it if it is not a fail?
With it being so expensive to make followed by a rapid decline already, make it a fail.
If it sustained people and stuck to 2 mill players it would still be the 2nd largest MMO, and would be a success but still be worse than WOW, but would not be a faiure. With 1.7 mill buying and playing the game at launch, it should have gotten more, way more, if it was a success. It is only still high because of that, and is only 6 months old.
Soon it will not be the 2nd largest MMO. It does not have the strength to keep going. At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be worse off than Aion, LOTRO, EVE, STO etc by next year
Does not change a thing about what I said nor make the game a "fail". Even with 500k subs, it will make profit and will be 2nd largest MMO on the market...just too expensive to make.
By EA's own definition, doesn't it need to maintain 1 million subs to be successful? They're the ones that said it.
Being 2nd largest MMO is highly debatable ATM. None of us know what the real numbers are past the spin.
SWTOR may very well make more money in one year than SWG made in 10...... For these companies that is what defines success and failure.
SWG was still doing well at the end, and the TCG was getting them loads of money, as well as mass multiple subs as majority of people had about an average of 5 accounts each. SWTOR only seems to have made most of its money from the box sales, and has not even had one year yet.
SWTOR may very well make more money in one year than SWG made in 10...... For these companies that is what defines success and failure.
SWG went for 8 1/2 years, not 10. SWG didn't go into panic mode until after the 1st year, TOR went into it after the 1st month. SWG didn't cost over $200 million it's whole life span, TOR cost that before it launched.
Careful what you say, I hear crow can be kinda greasy and gamey.
Originally posted by superniceguy it is a fail overall to the masses and to EA/Bioware
Speak for yourself only as you are not entitled in any way to speak for either "masses" nor EA/BioWare.
Why people did not re-sub? For same reasons as for any other MMO, SWTOR is no difference. The only thing is the drop appears as something extraordinary but it is not - it is only due recent launch, the numbers need to settle down.
Originally posted by Bardus By EA's own definition, doesn't it need to maintain 1 million subs to be successful? They're the ones that said it.Being 2nd largest MMO is highly debatable ATM. None of us know what the real numbers are past the spin.
Depends on perception of successful.
Speaking strictly in terms of expenses/income, they need about 300k subs to break even and 500k to have a profit.
Last official numbers were talking about 1.3M active subs with majority of paying customers. If I go with 50% for paying subs as the minimum to make the statement true, it is still 2nd largest MMO on western market.
As a star wars superfreak, I found my time in TOR very frustrating. these guys...had 300 million dollars to play with. 300 million. Think about that. And they gave us...shit. I'm not a powergamer. I don't burn through content in 2 days and scream about having nothing to do at max level. I'm a grown man. I played eve for 6 years. TOR is just an abomination. They tried to give us a linear, thempark story, then grafted MMO elements on it and called it good. Kind of like bad welding that doesn't handle the strain of proper use. at the end, SWG had all of the elements that, had they been implemented earlier, would have saved the game(IMO). proper space flight, atmospheric flight, at the end..all kinds of things. Then, they shut it down, so we would all go to TOR, and..
Good lord, what did they DO?!
If Tor had used JTL as a template, and given us proper spaceflight, a 3-d model..free form, just like JTL but upgraded. they had all the money and time in the world. It's star wars, for fuck's sake. spaceflight is integral to the gameworld, even if some players choose not to avail themselves of it. If they had, instead of making us play through their story, taken the story elements and broken them down into missions, class-specific, some pvp missions, pve, say, a mix of eve's regular missions and eve's faction warfare missions, told the story that way..we'd have this amazing sandbox where THE PLAYERS WOULD TELL THE STORY. bioware's story isn't good enough to hang the game on. it's support material only. The players, given the tools, would have done so much better. and the game would have been a hit. Perhaps the best mmo ever. But no. They spent ungoldly amounts of cash on VO actors when everyone(and I knew this from the get go) would listen to it once, then just skip it and get to the meat of the objective/mission. No one cares about the VO. It's to be used sparingly, not as a major feature(and, as an actor who does a lot of VO work, it pains me to say that, but truth is truth).
If bioware/LA had a clue about why people love star wars games, they would understand that it isn't about the themepark, really. People like to live in that world. they like to explore, and craft stuff, and have a customizable ship, and all the little things bioware neglected. People like pvp with meaning, not just shallow reasons. I want a character in a star wars gameworld that I can care about. I want to jump into my little ship and just go somewhere.. maybe see something on a distant planet that might get my character killed(and BTW, I'm not advocating permadeath or anything) or might make him/her a billion credits. I want chance, I want surprise, I want a game that engages my mind, yet is not tedious. I know that's hard. BUT NOT WHEN YOU HAVE 300 MILLION DOLLARS TO DO IT WITH.
Bioware/LA, what in the name of FUCK were you thinking when you dropped this steaming pile of camel shit on the market.
Originally posted by cinos Pretty sure they said it was 500k to break even and 1 million to turn over a "nothing to write home about" profit.Have they since revised that statement?
EDIT: On second thought nvm...sure everyone is tired of going round and round about the whole subject
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The appologists will continue to defend TOR, and the more purist mmo enthusiasts will continue to ensure that no one forgets that this game falls absurdly short of a massively-multiplayer game; a nice single-player/cooperative online rpg it is, but perhaps not at $15/month.
Mmo enthusiast consumers are smarter to not fund such an endeavor or fall victim to the editorial misconduct and misinformation on advertising sites that print gusing praise about this title as an evolutionary mmo; though it is the epitomy of de-evolution.
But these lessons were learned years ago with other titles. I guess TOR was just a jolting refresher that one just cant grab an acronym, place it on their product and try to convince the public that the product is something that it isn't.
it is a fail overall to the masses and to EA/Bioware
Speak for yourself only as you are not entitled in any way to speak for either "masses" nor EA/BioWare.
Why people did not re-sub? For same reasons as for any other MMO, SWTOR is no difference. The only thing is the drop appears as something extraordinary but it is not - it is only due recent launch, the numbers need to settle down.
Originally posted by Bardus By EA's own definition, doesn't it need to maintain 1 million subs to be successful? They're the ones that said it.
Being 2nd largest MMO is highly debatable ATM. None of us know what the real numbers are past the spin.
Depends on perception of successful.
Speaking strictly in terms of expenses/income, they need about 300k subs to break even and 500k to have a profit.
Last official numbers were talking about 1.3M active subs with majority of paying customers. If I go with 50% for paying subs as the minimum to make the statement true, it is still 2nd largest MMO on western market.
Are you saying you are entitled to speak for EA? If we're not then how are you? Who are we really talking to here? This can get very interesting.
Originally posted by Bardus Are you saying you are entitled to speak for EA? If we're not then how are you? Who are we really talking to here? This can get very interesting.
I am not speaking for EA, nor I am quoting anything but what has EA officially stated.
EDIT: On second thought nvm...sure everyone is tired of going round and round about the whole subject
We are because the idea of what they need to be profitable is a defense is sickening.
It doesnt matter if they only need 100k subscribers to make a profit or not...it does not defend the game in any way shape or form. The game is bad, it sold what? Over 2 million copies. They "say" there is 1.3 million people playing it.
1. Thats a drop of at least 700k people who bought the game.
2. It does not say if that includes those playing on the 30 free days.
3. does not cover the FACT that no company has ever given out a free month for a game doing well.
4. It does not address why SO MANY have left the game.
Fanboys need to step back and ask WHY they are blindly defending the game. There is obviously SOMETHING causing players to leave and players leaving does NOTHING BUT HURT the game they like...so acting as if nothing is wrong does what? It only allows Bioware a bigger chance of not doing a damn thing about it.
When they originally made the changes to the cooldowns, what happened? The entire forum was lit up with everyone going nuts about how bad it was...even the fan boys and what happened? Bioware got a slap in the face and got a patch up in just a few days...by DOING IT.
Some changes can come fast, others may take a few months...but as long as Bioware goes along their own plans without a slap in the face by the COMMUNITY we will continue to see bland updates like 1.2 and the upcoming 1.3 that bring NOTHING the game actually needs...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Fanboys need to step back and ask WHY they are blindly defending the game.
I think you need to take a step back and calm down.
The issue here is that so many people are stuck in this idea that "if the game doesn't hold all its initial players then its bad" when the real reason is that most people trying these games are just not the right people for these games.
SWToR is a fine game. It has its issues but it's very enjoyable. They messed up on pvp but then again they should never have promised pvp and open world pvp at that.
The game is fine and not for everyone. That's a shame given the IP but your thinking it's a mess doesn't mean it's a mess. It means it's not for you and those who think like you.
So "good" if they can be profitable on a smaller amount of players and "good" if those players enjoy the game.
time for everyone else to move on.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Don't treat your customers like they're morons. Seriously, these clowns acted as if we were so stupid that we couldn't see behind all their shallow, production-values driven gameplay to the shabby, limited game behind the lightsabers and aninmated voice-acting.
Don't lie to your customers. Do NOT tell them there is 200-hours of 'class story' when, in fact, it's 50-hours and 80% of it are generic 'kill rats' side quests. Do NOT tell them there is no drop in server population when it is clear and obvious there IS a drop in server population.
Don't troll your customers. They trolled us an acted as if our high-end gaming-computers were the problem, calling them crap computers. Sorry, we're smart enough to know the difference between a crappy engine and a crappy computer and we know it was their crappy engine at fault. You just can't tell a bunch of people who play scores of high-end, system challenging games without a problem that your MMO isn't the issue when it is the ONLY GAME WITH THE ISSUE.
"Don't treat your customers like they're morons. Seriously, these clowns acted as if we were so stupid that we couldn't see behind all their shallow, production-values driven gameplay to the shabby, limited game behind the lightsabers and aninmated voice-acting."
Some consumers knew this before they gave EA/bioware their $$$. Some had to fork over their hard earned cash to find out.
"Don't treat your customers like they're morons. Seriously, these clowns acted as if we were so stupid that we couldn't see behind all their shallow, production-values driven gameplay to the shabby, limited game behind the lightsabers and aninmated voice-acting."
Some consumers knew this before they gave EA/bioware their $$$. Some had to fork over their hard earned cash to find out.
I think this has more to do with:
EA: is is a company with a capital C. IT doesn't matter that they peddle games or livestock or textiles. They aer essentially set up to make a profit and that's pretty much it.
Bioware: Bioware has become a bit arrogant. Given their past successes they have forgotten that not everyone is going to look kindly on everything they do "just because they do it".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"Don't treat your customers like they're morons. Seriously, these clowns acted as if we were so stupid that we couldn't see behind all their shallow, production-values driven gameplay to the shabby, limited game behind the lightsabers and aninmated voice-acting."
Some consumers knew this before they gave EA/bioware their $$$. Some had to fork over their hard earned cash to find out.
I think this has more to do with:
EA: is is a company with a capital C. IT doesn't matter that they peddle games or livestock or textiles. They aer essentially set up to make a profit and that's pretty much it.
Bioware: Bioware has become a bit arrogant. Given their past successes they have forgotten that not everyone is going to look kindly on everything they do "just because they do it".
Agreed.
Many of their playerbase won't blindly purchase any new game from them. They're going to wait for reviews and I'll do it too.
it is a fail overall to the masses and to EA/Bioware
Speak for yourself only as you are not entitled in any way to speak for either "masses" nor EA/BioWare.
Why people did not re-sub? For same reasons as for any other MMO, SWTOR is no difference. The only thing is the drop appears as something extraordinary but it is not - it is only due recent launch, the numbers need to settle down.
I have not spoken for either the masses nor EA/Bioware, they have spoken themselves by the mass cancellations, and EA/biowares reactions to it.
There should not be this amount of cancellations after only 1 month. If the game had a 10 year lifespan, there should be more subs not less. It is definately not going to reach 10 years at this rate.
The reason people quit is because the game is not substantial to warrant a monthly fee, ergo it is a failure, because the game is designed around that monthly fee.
Comments
Ohh, I think I get what your saying. Your talking about those rumored sandboxes aren't you? But but those require going beyond daily dungeons for tokens to get everything a player needs and require socialization beyond only making sure a group has the tank, healer, dps balance. I'm talking way beyond those things so how can sandboxes possibly be more fun? Gamers need one method to get everything there is or they will get bored right? Having choice and variety is so pre 2005 dude, catch up will ya? Ever since pure themepark games came out there are plenty of examples that gear grinds in daily dungeons is the only way to go. There hasn't been game after game fail that followed that method has there? Sandboxes are really the dead games so why even try making new ones? Hasn't all these successful themeparks proved that by now?
/sarcasm off
There is a new sandbox being made and it's looking good so far. It's actually being made by devs that actually play games and take input from other players. That's another forbidden thing isn't it? The devs themselves actively answering questions and considering changes to the game based on player input? Blasphemous right? Ohh, oops sorry I turned sarcasm back on.
It may sound like a shameless plug but check out TheRepopulation. It's not just an indy game, it's going to be the indy game that stands the best chance to turn this genre back around. No I'm serious, no sarcasm this time.
With it being so expensive to make followed by a rapid decline already, make it a fail.
If it sustained people and stuck to 2 mill players it would still be the 2nd largest MMO, and would be a success but still be worse than WOW, but would not be a faiure. With 1.7 mill buying and playing the game at launch, it should have gotten more, way more, if it was a success. It is only still high because of that, and is only 6 months old.
Soon it will not be the 2nd largest MMO. It does not have the strength to keep going. At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be worse off than Aion, LOTRO, EVE, STO etc by next year
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Does not change a thing about what I said nor make the game a "fail". Even with 500k subs, it will make profit and will be 2nd largest MMO on the market...just too expensive to make.
And yet, TSW and GW2 have these, so do a few other games on a more limited level, like WoW and Lotro and all of them are GREAT...and not the real issue. Try again.
I think that is one of the problems with TOR right there. Limited story cut scenes...not a damn scene for every quest.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'd agree with you but every beta I still play today its the same old crap......Games like Rift offered zero innovation...People that had not experienced these things in other games thought it was great, but those of us that were experienced in MMOs saw it brought absolutely nothing new to the table......Yet it did very well considering....Also for SWTOR how many other games have sold as many boxes as they have and had as many subs at one time?...Only a handful.....WHile the game may feel like a failure to them it is a success....THey've probably made their money already and then some.
Saying that it is not a failure is not going to make it a sucess.
If you are liking SWTOR and do not feel it is a fail then fair enough, but it is a fail overall to the masses and to EA/Bioware. They would not be offering free trials if they were not in panic mode, and bleeding subs fast, nor would they take the game off of top priority. With the decline I doubt they will do any expansions now, and just stick with content updates, like what happened with SWG.
500K subs will only break even, they need plenty more to make profit. From the seems of things, they do not have or will not have even 500K subs. If they have 500K today they will not have that many in a few months time.
However it is not a fail as a game and when compared to single player games like Mass Effect 3, but it is a fail as P2P MMO like WOW or SWG, and where it is supposed to have a ten year lifespan as stated by EA. Why have so many people from 2 mill decide not to sub to it if it is not a fail?
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWTOR may very well make more money in one year than SWG made in 10...... For these companies that is what defines success and failure.
By EA's own definition, doesn't it need to maintain 1 million subs to be successful? They're the ones that said it.
Being 2nd largest MMO is highly debatable ATM. None of us know what the real numbers are past the spin.
SWG was still doing well at the end, and the TCG was getting them loads of money, as well as mass multiple subs as majority of people had about an average of 5 accounts each. SWTOR only seems to have made most of its money from the box sales, and has not even had one year yet.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWG went for 8 1/2 years, not 10. SWG didn't go into panic mode until after the 1st year, TOR went into it after the 1st month. SWG didn't cost over $200 million it's whole life span, TOR cost that before it launched.
Careful what you say, I hear crow can be kinda greasy and gamey.
-Just saying
Speak for yourself only as you are not entitled in any way to speak for either "masses" nor EA/BioWare.
Why people did not re-sub? For same reasons as for any other MMO, SWTOR is no difference. The only thing is the drop appears as something extraordinary but it is not - it is only due recent launch, the numbers need to settle down.
Depends on perception of successful.
Speaking strictly in terms of expenses/income, they need about 300k subs to break even and 500k to have a profit.
Last official numbers were talking about 1.3M active subs with majority of paying customers. If I go with 50% for paying subs as the minimum to make the statement true, it is still 2nd largest MMO on western market.
As a star wars superfreak, I found my time in TOR very frustrating. these guys...had 300 million dollars to play with. 300 million. Think about that. And they gave us...shit. I'm not a powergamer. I don't burn through content in 2 days and scream about having nothing to do at max level. I'm a grown man. I played eve for 6 years. TOR is just an abomination. They tried to give us a linear, thempark story, then grafted MMO elements on it and called it good. Kind of like bad welding that doesn't handle the strain of proper use. at the end, SWG had all of the elements that, had they been implemented earlier, would have saved the game(IMO). proper space flight, atmospheric flight, at the end..all kinds of things. Then, they shut it down, so we would all go to TOR, and..
Good lord, what did they DO?!
If Tor had used JTL as a template, and given us proper spaceflight, a 3-d model..free form, just like JTL but upgraded. they had all the money and time in the world. It's star wars, for fuck's sake. spaceflight is integral to the gameworld, even if some players choose not to avail themselves of it. If they had, instead of making us play through their story, taken the story elements and broken them down into missions, class-specific, some pvp missions, pve, say, a mix of eve's regular missions and eve's faction warfare missions, told the story that way..we'd have this amazing sandbox where THE PLAYERS WOULD TELL THE STORY. bioware's story isn't good enough to hang the game on. it's support material only. The players, given the tools, would have done so much better. and the game would have been a hit. Perhaps the best mmo ever. But no. They spent ungoldly amounts of cash on VO actors when everyone(and I knew this from the get go) would listen to it once, then just skip it and get to the meat of the objective/mission. No one cares about the VO. It's to be used sparingly, not as a major feature(and, as an actor who does a lot of VO work, it pains me to say that, but truth is truth).
If bioware/LA had a clue about why people love star wars games, they would understand that it isn't about the themepark, really. People like to live in that world. they like to explore, and craft stuff, and have a customizable ship, and all the little things bioware neglected. People like pvp with meaning, not just shallow reasons. I want a character in a star wars gameworld that I can care about. I want to jump into my little ship and just go somewhere.. maybe see something on a distant planet that might get my character killed(and BTW, I'm not advocating permadeath or anything) or might make him/her a billion credits. I want chance, I want surprise, I want a game that engages my mind, yet is not tedious. I know that's hard. BUT NOT WHEN YOU HAVE 300 MILLION DOLLARS TO DO IT WITH.
Bioware/LA, what in the name of FUCK were you thinking when you dropped this steaming pile of camel shit on the market.
/fin
They did not say it, the quote was twisted.
EDIT: On second thought nvm...sure everyone is tired of going round and round about the whole subject
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The appologists will continue to defend TOR, and the more purist mmo enthusiasts will continue to ensure that no one forgets that this game falls absurdly short of a massively-multiplayer game; a nice single-player/cooperative online rpg it is, but perhaps not at $15/month.
Mmo enthusiast consumers are smarter to not fund such an endeavor or fall victim to the editorial misconduct and misinformation on advertising sites that print gusing praise about this title as an evolutionary mmo; though it is the epitomy of de-evolution.
But these lessons were learned years ago with other titles. I guess TOR was just a jolting refresher that one just cant grab an acronym, place it on their product and try to convince the public that the product is something that it isn't.
Are you saying you are entitled to speak for EA? If we're not then how are you? Who are we really talking to here? This can get very interesting.
I am not speaking for EA, nor I am quoting anything but what has EA officially stated.
We are because the idea of what they need to be profitable is a defense is sickening.
It doesnt matter if they only need 100k subscribers to make a profit or not...it does not defend the game in any way shape or form. The game is bad, it sold what? Over 2 million copies. They "say" there is 1.3 million people playing it.
1. Thats a drop of at least 700k people who bought the game.
2. It does not say if that includes those playing on the 30 free days.
3. does not cover the FACT that no company has ever given out a free month for a game doing well.
4. It does not address why SO MANY have left the game.
Fanboys need to step back and ask WHY they are blindly defending the game. There is obviously SOMETHING causing players to leave and players leaving does NOTHING BUT HURT the game they like...so acting as if nothing is wrong does what? It only allows Bioware a bigger chance of not doing a damn thing about it.
When they originally made the changes to the cooldowns, what happened? The entire forum was lit up with everyone going nuts about how bad it was...even the fan boys and what happened? Bioware got a slap in the face and got a patch up in just a few days...by DOING IT.
Some changes can come fast, others may take a few months...but as long as Bioware goes along their own plans without a slap in the face by the COMMUNITY we will continue to see bland updates like 1.2 and the upcoming 1.3 that bring NOTHING the game actually needs...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think you need to take a step back and calm down.
The issue here is that so many people are stuck in this idea that "if the game doesn't hold all its initial players then its bad" when the real reason is that most people trying these games are just not the right people for these games.
SWToR is a fine game. It has its issues but it's very enjoyable. They messed up on pvp but then again they should never have promised pvp and open world pvp at that.
The game is fine and not for everyone. That's a shame given the IP but your thinking it's a mess doesn't mean it's a mess. It means it's not for you and those who think like you.
So "good" if they can be profitable on a smaller amount of players and "good" if those players enjoy the game.
time for everyone else to move on.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Don't treat your customers like they're morons. Seriously, these clowns acted as if we were so stupid that we couldn't see behind all their shallow, production-values driven gameplay to the shabby, limited game behind the lightsabers and aninmated voice-acting."
Some consumers knew this before they gave EA/bioware their $$$. Some had to fork over their hard earned cash to find out.
I think this has more to do with:
EA: is is a company with a capital C. IT doesn't matter that they peddle games or livestock or textiles. They aer essentially set up to make a profit and that's pretty much it.
Bioware: Bioware has become a bit arrogant. Given their past successes they have forgotten that not everyone is going to look kindly on everything they do "just because they do it".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Agreed.
Many of their playerbase won't blindly purchase any new game from them. They're going to wait for reviews and I'll do it too.
I have not spoken for either the masses nor EA/Bioware, they have spoken themselves by the mass cancellations, and EA/biowares reactions to it.
There should not be this amount of cancellations after only 1 month. If the game had a 10 year lifespan, there should be more subs not less. It is definately not going to reach 10 years at this rate.
The reason people quit is because the game is not substantial to warrant a monthly fee, ergo it is a failure, because the game is designed around that monthly fee.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012