I see that mmorpg.com as usual are staying away from the controversal topic of ThemePark and WoW clones but for the genre to survive, any genre really, it has to renew itself. Creating ThemePark after ThemePark which all essentially play the same way with a little novlety here and there wont cut it. Eventually most people will realise it is the same thing which they have done before and stop buying into it.
I am not saying sandbox is the way to go but rather that the genre has to renew itself. It cannot stay stagnant like it has the last 5-6 years. And bringing single player features into an MMORPG is going the wrong way. They need to bring more multiplayer features to a massively multiplayer game, not single player one's.
I do agree with most of Suzies points, but why do everyone think F2P will save the genre?
I don't think they do really... it just isn't a MMORPG.com article unless they reinforce how essential, 'unstoppable', and generally GREAT the model is.
Despite all this not being true.
(Have you ever seen a critical look here at the negative side of F2P? Or what it does to these games? Or any kind of exposure of the underhand tactics used? Have you even seen a balance to their column 'The Free Zone', which exists only to push F2P?)
Nothing is here 'if we like it or not', as Suzie wants to make us believe. As consumers we control and dictate the market, not the corperations. Right now though we have a lot of F2P promotion and right across the internet so a lot of folks are buying in to it.
But... I fully believe the F2P backlash is starting to kick in already, as folks start to see what it really means. I believe it will eventually hurt the the future of his genre more then help it.
I don't think I really agree with much of this article outside of #5. What do MMOs need to survive? Nothing. They're doing fine. There's no dark clouds on the horizon. Free to Play is part of that, everything else isn't.
4. Kickstarter is a joke. Any MMO that can be funded through Kickstarter isn't going to be something that you want to play. Double Fine is great, but when they're the talk of the town after raising a few million dollars, that's not something that will translate well. MMOs of a modest budget at today's standards are going to be into the 8 figures. Kickstarter won't get you there.
3 (and 2). "The publisher made me do it!" is a cop out. It's not as though waiting until a game "is done" is going to help its chances as an MMO. The nature of the genre is that it's not done. Part of the development process is releasing the game and seeing what breaks when more people than your friends and family play it. Furthermore, the point of making games is making money - that's what publishers know how to do. Development studios left to their own devices would, more often than not, turn out "The Homer" than some profound gaming experience.
1. I agree on the basic point, but again, I don't think you really understand the business side of things. Who can self-fund a MMO project? These take years and millions of dollars, and it's mostly on spec. If anything, we need _more_ studios - the cream naturally rises to the top. And don't be surprised if it's published by EA.
Ditto!!!
This is a nice article from a gamers view but it takes money to pay the developers and that means investors. I don't agree with the OP - the MMO world is just fine. It is not. These layoffs are just the sea receding from the seashore before the tsunami comes in. With the perceived view that SWTOR was a failure, thus MMO's are not a good investment, you are going to see a lot more misery in the coming weeks. I will sympathize with those who lose their jobs, having been in the same situation three times in my career.
mmorpgs will die out if we dont get away from the endgame mentality and developers need to make a game that is designed from scratch to be a great game all the way through. most games throw up a bunch of crap as content to get you to the max level where you can participate in the "real part of the game" that less than 50 percent of the player population ever see.
Endgame is a bunch of crap, its a stupid carrot that blizzard has been holding in front of their players faces for 7 years now, going on 8 to keep them buying subs. yes it has worked for blizzard but every other game out there it has failed and failed hardcore, yet these tard developers wanna keep making the same type of game.
developers need to just make a fun game, and make it fun all the way through and quit following blizzard around trying to snatch the crumbs off their table.
1 Get away from end game mentality (as above poster said)
2 Less wow/ more innovation as many above posters have said
3 Pick a market and stop trying to please everyone as a few posters have said
4 Become more cost effective in development
5 Publisher input will improve as their data set grows (ie a record of what works and what doesnt, no I dont mean more wow clones I mean technical issues around development and resource allocation etc).
Nice article but I'm for P2P because I know that I'm only spending 15 dollars per month nothing more nothing less. In a F2F game is a lot of farming and grinding and that needs time and in my case, and other persons, I have job family so i don't have a lot of time spending in game. I'm not a kid anymore with a lot of time and no worries. So that one of the reasons that I prefere P2P games because you don't have to play 10 hours per day every day to gear up. Like some said 15 dollars per month is not a lot for something that i'm enjoying so I'm for P2P model. And olsy i like the idea B2P but without cashshop where you can buy items that gives you an advantage over other players.
MMORPG's are in trouble, i believe. But not from the publishers nor the designers. The biggest problem(s) comes from the MMO gaming community.
Its not our fault Dev Companies make crappy games and Publishers release them.
Though it IS our fault for buying them and funding the mediocrety
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
MMORPG's are in trouble, i believe. But not from the publishers nor the designers. The biggest problem(s) comes from the MMO gaming community.
Its not our fault Dev Companies make crappy games and Publishers release them.
Though it IS our fault for buying them and funding the mediocrety
I don't think it's anyone's fault per se. I think that for many gamers, they've simply outgrown the MMORPG. After years of repeating the same activiteis, many are seeing the returns are not worth the reward and the excitment factor for achieving that new level, gettingthat new item, unlocking that new ability, being able to craft that new piece of gear...etc etc. Just doesn't pay off anymore.
mainstreaming has ruined the genre. So a little shrinkage I think is a good thing. Too many goaliath companys trying to make games and taking the whole MMO concept down the toilet.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
mainstreaming has ruined the genre. So a little shrinkage I think is a good thing. Too many goaliath companys trying to make games and taking the whole MMO concept down the toilet.
Of course mmos aren't going anywhere..... MMOs are the most technically advanced video games ever created. Maybe fantasy mmos will become obsolete, but not mmos in general. True mmos like EvE will continue to pop up, and most likely at a higher frequency as time goes on.
i would add a #6 the community has to change. these people wants all quicly and that cannot be, also they want to rush everything, you should calm down. its both for hardcore and casual players, how can someone finish a game in 30-80 hours?, its not only because of the unfinished state of the released game, its also a fault in the players. these games are about time, you cannot experience 100% in 2 hours, take it easy.
"endgame" has killed the gameplay.
That is the world today. People want it all now and it's not just limited to games. Asking for that to change is not realistic.
Agreed, not only isn't it realistic, it isn't going to happen. As the MMO market evolved, the genre itself had to evolve to cater to the playstyles of the influx of new players.
Years ago when the market was just emerging, people were content to spawn camp and spend hours upon hours raiding, grinding, whatever. Society today is a fast paced, disposable world where people want to get in, have their fun and move on without the time investment us veterans are used to.
For an MMO to succeed in todays market, they have to build the game with todays player in mind in order to maximize their potential player base (unless they don't mind catering to a smaller niche base).
As a corolary to not pushing a game out before its time, developers need to learn to manage expectations and work scope. It's nice to talk about the "art" of game development. But these "artists" need to understand they do not have a bottomless well of gold to draw from and learn to make commitments they can keep.
It's all fine and dandy to blame publishers for pushing an unfinished game out the door but what of developers who promise far more than they can deliver within the defined schedule and alotted resources?
WoW itself destroyed the MMO community to a solo centric game. Too many causals wanting to do things anytime and anywhere whenever has single handedly destroyed community in the game.
So new MMOs doesn't matter what name brand it is, will be haunted by ex-WoW players expecting things handed to them with no challenge.
I miss the days when an MMO was a success with 400k-500k player base. I perfer that then 8 + million babies and console types wanting everything like fast food.
This is a great list but the #1 thing that has to change in my honest opinion is Developers need to be encouraged to take chances and try new things. We are seeing some of this now with games like GW2, Tera, TSW and ArcheAge but this trend should be pushed even further. The main problem with the MMO genre as a whole is it's become terribly stagnant in the last 8 years. Every game that comes out year after year seems to be the same game just with a new paintjob and a slightly different back story.
If this genre is going to evolve these big Development houses need to realize that making the same game over and over just isnt going to cut it anymore. They need to realize that to compete with or even beat WoW they need to come up with something that is radically different than WoW and better in many ways. People aren't going to leave WoW to play a similar game with a pretty new paint job.
Bren
Problem with that is if a new MMO tries to do that, the ex-WoW players whine, beg and cry about changing that new MMO into a WoW-clone. I have played alot newer MMOs and I have without fail flooded the forums with the outcry to change that new mmo into a WoW clone. In turn taking away Dev time to appease these morons. That's what's happening to SWTOR, Rift, and I bet after a few months will happen to GW2 and others.
You can't win either way. MMOs in general are in a bad state BECAUSE of WoW and Blizzard.
Originally posted by GeezerGamer Originally posted by PyrateLVOriginally posted by jeeshadowMMORPG's are in trouble, i believe. But not from the publishers nor the designers. The biggest problem(s) comes from the MMO gaming community.
Its not our fault Dev Companies make crappy games and Publishers release them.Though it IS our fault for buying them and funding the mediocretyI don't think it's anyone's fault per se. I think that for many gamers, they've simply outgrown the MMORPG. After years of repeating the same activiteis, many are seeing the returns are not worth the reward and the excitment factor for achieving that new level, gettingthat new item, unlocking that new ability, being able to craft that new piece of gear...etc etc. Just doesn't pay off anymore.
See my signature.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
WoW itself destroyed the MMO community to a solo centric game. Too many causals wanting to do things anytime and anywhere whenever has single handedly destroyed community in the game.
So new MMOs doesn't matter what name brand it is, will be haunted by ex-WoW players expecting things handed to them with no challenge.
I miss the days when an MMO was a success with 400k-500k player base. I perfer that then 8 + million babies and console types wanting everything like fast food.
I kind of agree with this. WoW did a lot to destroy community in the name of convenience and ease. Cross server ques, while convenient, really wrecks community on your server. The fact that you could solo 100% of the way to 80......why group? And if you don't want to group why play an mmo, a million single player games have better ....tada.........solo content than any mmo ever could. There are many more things they did that hurt community, but it is what it is. Someone on this thread is going to go on about how little time they have and don't they deserve to play too.............I say yes, you have the right to play skyrim.
Originally posted by BarryManilowWoW itself destroyed the MMO community to a solo centric game. Too many causals wanting to do things anytime and anywhere whenever has single handedly destroyed community in the game.So new MMOs doesn't matter what name brand it is, will be haunted by ex-WoW players expecting things handed to them with no challenge. I miss the days when an MMO was a success with 400k-500k player base. I perfer that then 8 + million babies and console types wanting everything like fast food.
I kind of agree with this. WoW did a lot to destroy community in the name of convenience and ease. Cross server ques, while convenient, really wrecks community on your server. The fact that you could solo 100% of the way to 80......why group? And if you don't want to group why play an mmo, a million single player games have better ....tada.........solo content than any mmo ever could. There are many more things they did that hurt community, but it is what it is. Someone on this thread is going to go on about how little time they have and don't they deserve to play too.............I say yes, you have the right to play skyrim.
I agree with this as well. I remember when WoW came out I was still playing SWG and one of my buddies was talking about how great WoW was because you could log on for 20 minutes and knock out quests, get some items and decent xp. It made mmos accessible to people that werent interested in mmos because of the amount of time involved. It would take me about an hour to get prepped and on a planet for farming hides in SWG. But it was fine because that hour of prep involved lots of socialization, trade and travel and interdependent cooperation. Part of the experience of a good mmo is to feel like you're part of a bigger picture. WoW turned the focus back on the player and the genre has devolved into another solo hero insta gib.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
stop pushing F2P most see it for the scam that it is.
There are onyl afew reasons mmos fail, corprate greed,bad development, and pissing off a majority of the base players.
cash shops are fine to give people that want to pay for them pets an glowy mounts but the second design is based on MAKING you use the cash shop at any point the game becoems fail
Originally posted by BarryManilowWoW itself destroyed the MMO community to a solo centric game. Too many causals wanting to do things anytime and anywhere whenever has single handedly destroyed community in the game.So new MMOs doesn't matter what name brand it is, will be haunted by ex-WoW players expecting things handed to them with no challenge. I miss the days when an MMO was a success with 400k-500k player base. I perfer that then 8 + million babies and console types wanting everything like fast food.
I kind of agree with this. WoW did a lot to destroy community in the name of convenience and ease. Cross server ques, while convenient, really wrecks community on your server. The fact that you could solo 100% of the way to 80......why group? And if you don't want to group why play an mmo, a million single player games have better ....tada.........solo content than any mmo ever could. There are many more things they did that hurt community, but it is what it is. Someone on this thread is going to go on about how little time they have and don't they deserve to play too.............I say yes, you have the right to play skyrim.
I agree with this as well. I remember when WoW came out I was still playing SWG and one of my buddies was talking about how great WoW was because you could log on for 20 minutes and knock out quests, get some items and decent xp. It made mmos accessible to people that werent interested in mmos because of the amount of time involved. It would take me about an hour to get prepped and on a planet for farming hides in SWG. But it was fine because that hour of prep involved lots of socialization, trade and travel and interdependent cooperation. Part of the experience of a good mmo is to feel like you're part of a bigger picture. WoW turned the focus back on the player and the genre has devolved into another solo hero insta gib.
Exactly all 3 of these. Honestly i want to add to it but these 3 posts are so spot on i don't want to ruin it.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I do agree with most of Suzies points, but why do everyone think F2P will save the genre?
I don't think they do really... it just isn't a MMORPG.com article unless they reinforce how essential, 'unstoppable', and generally GREAT the model is.
Despite all this not being true.
(Have you ever seen a critical look here at the negative side of F2P? Or what it does to these games? Or any kind of exposure of the underhand tactics used? Have you even seen a balance to their column 'The Free Zone', which exists only to push F2P?)
Nothing is here 'if we like it or not', as Suzie wants to make us believe. As consumers we control and dictate the market, not the corperations. Right now though we have a lot of F2P promotion and right across the internet so a lot of folks are buying in to it.
But... I fully believe the F2P backlash is starting to kick in already, as folks start to see what it really means. I believe it will eventually hurt the the future of his genre more then help it.
I don't know what about F2P being good for the genre isn't true. LOTRO, at the very least, has been very successful long enough that it's tough to call it a blip in F2P interest, so I'm not exactly sure what F2P backlash is going on.
Sub model games shouldn't (and won't) go away, but they target a different audience. F2P games target a different (and larger) audience, which had previously been more or less untapped until 2009-2010ish. People that played EverQuest in highschool and college are beginning to hover around the 30-ish range; the value proposition of sub games just doesn't hold as much water when you can't devote significant amounts of time to an MMO.
The glut of piss poor "WoW clone" MMOs that barraged the market are about the only thing I see failing the genre, and I think we're seeing the backlash from that now.
It's like the dot.com boom, when everyone and their brother was trying to offer "the next big thing" as an IP offering, and investors were rushing to throw money at their feet, but not without demanding something in return, because it was all about dollar signs.
Next thing you know, investors found out that most of these companies were using the funds to rennovate expensive lofts with the highest priced office furniture, throw lavish breakfast and lunch office parties, and--- offering the same old crap that their neighbor was, and not really using the funds to "innovate" at all.
All of a sudden-- CRASH!
I'm in agreement with some of the others that say, "Let them fail!"
Ever since World of Warcraft came along and turned the industry on its head, it has been a mad rush to push through some mediocre piece of crap to grab a slice of their "mainstream" success.
The good games have withstood the test of time, more or less, and the ones that jumped on board to rape the market have or are going (or in the case of a game like SW:TOR, should go) "free-to-play" to sustain themselves because their content can't sustain a subscription model. Not when there are numerous other "standard faire" games hitting the market that offer some new bright and shiny "based on a major IP" MMOG to pull people away.
You can't tell me that LOTRO was a fully thought out title when it released. "Monster Play", anyone? Really? Limited customization, a dull art direction that could have been used for any other sort of MMO theme, and elements that were plainly "borrowed" from the box office as opposed to imagery from pre-existing art inspired by the books... LOTRO was definitely one of those games that was trying to cash in on success elsewhere. So, trying to use LOTRO as an example of a game that went F2P for "all the right reasons" doesn't cut it.
Not too many years from now, the industry will see some innovation in technology that will completely change the way games are made, and the MMO industry won't die-- it will evolve, and someone will come out with an innovative title that uses that new technology to create a truly unique experience that actually entertains a lot of people, and promptly gets "cloned" by dozens of companies trying to make the big bucks on its coat tails. That never changes, sadly.
We're already seeing the signs of new technology being made available for broader "in home" use; from touch screen monitors to motion sensoring, mobile application integration to social networking through the user interface, and beyond.
Gaming is going somewhere, but it's definitely not going to the grave.
stop pushing F2P most see it for the scam that it is.
There are onyl afew reasons mmos fail, corprate greed,bad development, and pissing off a majority of the base players.
cash shops are fine to give people that want to pay for them pets an glowy mounts but the second design is based on MAKING you use the cash shop at any point the game becoems fail
Comments
I see that mmorpg.com as usual are staying away from the controversal topic of ThemePark and WoW clones but for the genre to survive, any genre really, it has to renew itself. Creating ThemePark after ThemePark which all essentially play the same way with a little novlety here and there wont cut it. Eventually most people will realise it is the same thing which they have done before and stop buying into it.
I am not saying sandbox is the way to go but rather that the genre has to renew itself. It cannot stay stagnant like it has the last 5-6 years. And bringing single player features into an MMORPG is going the wrong way. They need to bring more multiplayer features to a massively multiplayer game, not single player one's.
My gaming blog
I don't think they do really... it just isn't a MMORPG.com article unless they reinforce how essential, 'unstoppable', and generally GREAT the model is.
Despite all this not being true.
(Have you ever seen a critical look here at the negative side of F2P? Or what it does to these games? Or any kind of exposure of the underhand tactics used? Have you even seen a balance to their column 'The Free Zone', which exists only to push F2P?)
Nothing is here 'if we like it or not', as Suzie wants to make us believe. As consumers we control and dictate the market, not the corperations. Right now though we have a lot of F2P promotion and right across the internet so a lot of folks are buying in to it.
But... I fully believe the F2P backlash is starting to kick in already, as folks start to see what it really means. I believe it will eventually hurt the the future of his genre more then help it.
Ditto!!!
This is a nice article from a gamers view but it takes money to pay the developers and that means investors. I don't agree with the OP - the MMO world is just fine. It is not. These layoffs are just the sea receding from the seashore before the tsunami comes in. With the perceived view that SWTOR was a failure, thus MMO's are not a good investment, you are going to see a lot more misery in the coming weeks. I will sympathize with those who lose their jobs, having been in the same situation three times in my career.
mmorpgs will die out if we dont get away from the endgame mentality and developers need to make a game that is designed from scratch to be a great game all the way through. most games throw up a bunch of crap as content to get you to the max level where you can participate in the "real part of the game" that less than 50 percent of the player population ever see.
Endgame is a bunch of crap, its a stupid carrot that blizzard has been holding in front of their players faces for 7 years now, going on 8 to keep them buying subs. yes it has worked for blizzard but every other game out there it has failed and failed hardcore, yet these tard developers wanna keep making the same type of game.
developers need to just make a fun game, and make it fun all the way through and quit following blizzard around trying to snatch the crumbs off their table.
1 Get away from end game mentality (as above poster said)
2 Less wow/ more innovation as many above posters have said
3 Pick a market and stop trying to please everyone as a few posters have said
4 Become more cost effective in development
5 Publisher input will improve as their data set grows (ie a record of what works and what doesnt, no I dont mean more wow clones I mean technical issues around development and resource allocation etc).
Nice article but I'm for P2P because I know that I'm only spending 15 dollars per month nothing more nothing less. In a F2F game is a lot of farming and grinding and that needs time and in my case, and other persons, I have job family so i don't have a lot of time spending in game. I'm not a kid anymore with a lot of time and no worries. So that one of the reasons that I prefere P2P games because you don't have to play 10 hours per day every day to gear up. Like some said 15 dollars per month is not a lot for something that i'm enjoying so I'm for P2P model. And olsy i like the idea B2P but without cashshop where you can buy items that gives you an advantage over other players.
#4 Kickstarter can help in theory
but I havent seen any mmo launch w the help of kickstarter yet
maybe mmos are too expensive for kickstarter ?
EQ2 fan sites
Its not our fault Dev Companies make crappy games and Publishers release them.
Though it IS our fault for buying them and funding the mediocrety
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I don't think it's anyone's fault per se. I think that for many gamers, they've simply outgrown the MMORPG. After years of repeating the same activiteis, many are seeing the returns are not worth the reward and the excitment factor for achieving that new level, gettingthat new item, unlocking that new ability, being able to craft that new piece of gear...etc etc. Just doesn't pay off anymore.
mainstreaming has ruined the genre. So a little shrinkage I think is a good thing. Too many goaliath companys trying to make games and taking the whole MMO concept down the toilet.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
Agreed
Of course mmos aren't going anywhere..... MMOs are the most technically advanced video games ever created. Maybe fantasy mmos will become obsolete, but not mmos in general. True mmos like EvE will continue to pop up, and most likely at a higher frequency as time goes on.
Agreed, not only isn't it realistic, it isn't going to happen. As the MMO market evolved, the genre itself had to evolve to cater to the playstyles of the influx of new players.
Years ago when the market was just emerging, people were content to spawn camp and spend hours upon hours raiding, grinding, whatever. Society today is a fast paced, disposable world where people want to get in, have their fun and move on without the time investment us veterans are used to.
For an MMO to succeed in todays market, they have to build the game with todays player in mind in order to maximize their potential player base (unless they don't mind catering to a smaller niche base).
As a corolary to not pushing a game out before its time, developers need to learn to manage expectations and work scope. It's nice to talk about the "art" of game development. But these "artists" need to understand they do not have a bottomless well of gold to draw from and learn to make commitments they can keep.
It's all fine and dandy to blame publishers for pushing an unfinished game out the door but what of developers who promise far more than they can deliver within the defined schedule and alotted resources?
WoW itself destroyed the MMO community to a solo centric game. Too many causals wanting to do things anytime and anywhere whenever has single handedly destroyed community in the game.
So new MMOs doesn't matter what name brand it is, will be haunted by ex-WoW players expecting things handed to them with no challenge.
I miss the days when an MMO was a success with 400k-500k player base. I perfer that then 8 + million babies and console types wanting everything like fast food.
Problem with that is if a new MMO tries to do that, the ex-WoW players whine, beg and cry about changing that new MMO into a WoW-clone. I have played alot newer MMOs and I have without fail flooded the forums with the outcry to change that new mmo into a WoW clone. In turn taking away Dev time to appease these morons. That's what's happening to SWTOR, Rift, and I bet after a few months will happen to GW2 and others.
You can't win either way. MMOs in general are in a bad state BECAUSE of WoW and Blizzard.
I don't think it's anyone's fault per se. I think that for many gamers, they've simply outgrown the MMORPG. After years of repeating the same activiteis, many are seeing the returns are not worth the reward and the excitment factor for achieving that new level, gettingthat new item, unlocking that new ability, being able to craft that new piece of gear...etc etc. Just doesn't pay off anymore.
See my signature.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !
I kind of agree with this. WoW did a lot to destroy community in the name of convenience and ease. Cross server ques, while convenient, really wrecks community on your server. The fact that you could solo 100% of the way to 80......why group? And if you don't want to group why play an mmo, a million single player games have better ....tada.........solo content than any mmo ever could. There are many more things they did that hurt community, but it is what it is. Someone on this thread is going to go on about how little time they have and don't they deserve to play too.............I say yes, you have the right to play skyrim.
I agree with this as well. I remember when WoW came out I was still playing SWG and one of my buddies was talking about how great WoW was because you could log on for 20 minutes and knock out quests, get some items and decent xp. It made mmos accessible to people that werent interested in mmos because of the amount of time involved. It would take me about an hour to get prepped and on a planet for farming hides in SWG. But it was fine because that hour of prep involved lots of socialization, trade and travel and interdependent cooperation. Part of the experience of a good mmo is to feel like you're part of a bigger picture. WoW turned the focus back on the player and the genre has devolved into another solo hero insta gib.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
stop pushing F2P most see it for the scam that it is.
There are onyl afew reasons mmos fail, corprate greed,bad development, and pissing off a majority of the base players.
cash shops are fine to give people that want to pay for them pets an glowy mounts but the second design is based on MAKING you use the cash shop at any point the game becoems fail
Exactly all 3 of these. Honestly i want to add to it but these 3 posts are so spot on i don't want to ruin it.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I don't know what about F2P being good for the genre isn't true. LOTRO, at the very least, has been very successful long enough that it's tough to call it a blip in F2P interest, so I'm not exactly sure what F2P backlash is going on.
Sub model games shouldn't (and won't) go away, but they target a different audience. F2P games target a different (and larger) audience, which had previously been more or less untapped until 2009-2010ish. People that played EverQuest in highschool and college are beginning to hover around the 30-ish range; the value proposition of sub games just doesn't hold as much water when you can't devote significant amounts of time to an MMO.
The glut of piss poor "WoW clone" MMOs that barraged the market are about the only thing I see failing the genre, and I think we're seeing the backlash from that now.
It's like the dot.com boom, when everyone and their brother was trying to offer "the next big thing" as an IP offering, and investors were rushing to throw money at their feet, but not without demanding something in return, because it was all about dollar signs.
Next thing you know, investors found out that most of these companies were using the funds to rennovate expensive lofts with the highest priced office furniture, throw lavish breakfast and lunch office parties, and--- offering the same old crap that their neighbor was, and not really using the funds to "innovate" at all.
All of a sudden-- CRASH!
I'm in agreement with some of the others that say, "Let them fail!"
Ever since World of Warcraft came along and turned the industry on its head, it has been a mad rush to push through some mediocre piece of crap to grab a slice of their "mainstream" success.
The good games have withstood the test of time, more or less, and the ones that jumped on board to rape the market have or are going (or in the case of a game like SW:TOR, should go) "free-to-play" to sustain themselves because their content can't sustain a subscription model. Not when there are numerous other "standard faire" games hitting the market that offer some new bright and shiny "based on a major IP" MMOG to pull people away.
You can't tell me that LOTRO was a fully thought out title when it released. "Monster Play", anyone? Really? Limited customization, a dull art direction that could have been used for any other sort of MMO theme, and elements that were plainly "borrowed" from the box office as opposed to imagery from pre-existing art inspired by the books... LOTRO was definitely one of those games that was trying to cash in on success elsewhere. So, trying to use LOTRO as an example of a game that went F2P for "all the right reasons" doesn't cut it.
Not too many years from now, the industry will see some innovation in technology that will completely change the way games are made, and the MMO industry won't die-- it will evolve, and someone will come out with an innovative title that uses that new technology to create a truly unique experience that actually entertains a lot of people, and promptly gets "cloned" by dozens of companies trying to make the big bucks on its coat tails. That never changes, sadly.
We're already seeing the signs of new technology being made available for broader "in home" use; from touch screen monitors to motion sensoring, mobile application integration to social networking through the user interface, and beyond.
Gaming is going somewhere, but it's definitely not going to the grave.
I think that pretty well sums it up.
Discussion closed.