We need an independent video game review site very badly.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I'm just wondering when the major review sites will come out of the woodwork and actually write honest articles about how shitty the game really is and how poorly it's performed, instead of perpetually shoveling bullshit.
Probably when the bribe money runs out. That's my best guess.
Yep, very good question. Before launch there was no shortage of reviews and the reviewers only had hrs in beta. Now the game has been out for months and I hear crickets.
No need in saying it. I know it was all paid reviews for promised ad space. Good luck convincing me otherwise.
On topic: I think the OP is closer to the truth than we're getting from the office but it is still just pulling numbers out his ass. No offense but yeah your guessing.
This isn't a constructive topic as much as it's a haters going to hate thread.
I dislike TOR as much as anyone but if your going to post something like this then bring cold hard undisputable facts or your claims are nothing but an obvious and intentional exaggeration, AKA hyperbole.
I wrote this just now in another thread but I'll repeat it here.
Reviewers will never bash on Bioware, or Blizzard or any developer with a big name. Why? Because that developer might hold a grudge and not give any more future interviews, or invite them over to the offices, or give them an inside scoop. Thats bad for a gaming publication of any kind. Which is why you see small or no name developers who make a bad game get totally bombed in reviews. Yet when a big name dev makes a game, bad or good, the reviews are going to always be good. Dont want to insult them! With good reason.
We need a Fox News gaming site. They would thrive on just how pissed off they could make the developers.
Here we go again, dont know why the people hate the game that much, probably because gw2 is not out yet, so the fanboys need to do something, and hate swtor is fun maybe. The truth about the game is this : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.33 mill of copies, 10k more than the last week. most of the servers are dead because everyone is playing on the high pop servers, also all the new players make their toons there. The swtor playersbase is waiting for the new ¨superservers¨ and the 1.3 update, so dont worry.
hmm...your definition of server dead is very diferent from mine. if a server have lot of people on high lvl zone that isnt a dead server, but how can this be true is a server is marked as LOW population?
Here we go again, dont know why the people hate the game that much, probably because gw2 is not out yet, so the fanboys need to do something, and hate swtor is fun maybe. The truth about the game is this : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.33 mill of copies, 10k more than the last week. most of the servers are dead because everyone is playing on the high pop servers, also all the new players make their toons there. The swtor playersbase is waiting for the new ¨superservers¨ and the 1.3 update, so dont worry.
At least you admit that most of the servers are dead.
Where did you get your 10k number in 1 week from? I looked on that site and couldn't figure out how you got that number.
Your numbers dont actually have solid data behind it..
Servers that are claimed "dead" like Vrook Lamar..I play on and don't see the server as "dead" by any means..so..I don't get that. They remind me of low pop servers on most games today. They stay "Light", "Standard" occasionally on weekends.
These next few months decide whether SWTOR will fail or succeed in the long run. The "mega server" rumours could be the best possible solution for a game that's been hit more by an unreasonable consumer base then actual flaws.
My only hope that comes out of all of this is that one of two things happens :
1. MMORPG players start to realize that a game in its first year will not have all the bells and whisltes of a game that has been in constant development for 5+ years.
2. Companies will build a game, ignore release dates and release it when it was finished. They will stop trying to capitalize on the disgruntled mmorpg players, and build a quality game that has longevity rather then a quick cash burst.
--
The MMO landscape changed in 2004-2006. But people and companies are assuming it stayed the same..it hasn't. The massive numbers of people leaving new games (Rift, SWTOR...soon to be added : GW2 and TERA) should be a wake up call.
It's ironic that by "voting with your wallet" consumers are destroying the mmo industry. What's the point of investing in building a game that will be abandoned in 3 months because it doesn't have "X" ? It's like everyone expects a game to be perfect, and I think nostalgia has a big part in this.
Every new game is held to a higher standard then the game before it. Hopefully the non-sub model of GW2 will give it some slack.
This figure is just pulled out of your ass. Granted the 1.3 number is no where near close to reality the fact is we'll probably never know. The people that hate the game work to spin the numbers down and eaware spins them up. I'd agree the number is probably somewhere in the middle but who really knows.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I'm just wondering when the major review sites will come out of the woodwork and actually write honest articles about how shitty the game really is and how poorly it's performed, instead of perpetually shoveling bullshit.
Probably when the bribe money runs out. That's my best guess.
This isn't what review sites do though. If it's a big name, AAA title it seems almost every other review site lauds and heralds the coming of the game as an awesome addition to our genre because it has this or that or whatever. Then the sites go relatively quiet about it for months and when the games public opinion turns so to do the review sites, claiming how such a failure of a game should warn others or some such nonsense.
It happens with all kinds of games these days, sites claiming the game is awesome 8.5 out of 10 or whatever and the a small few months later they come back and tell us all how much a fail it was and why it failed like they're not just riding the waves of popular opinion.
I'd honestly pay a subscription to a site that was true about reviewing games based on the merits of the game themselves, not how much hype can or has been built up around such games.
Here we go again, dont know why the people hate the game that much, probably because gw2 is not out yet, so the fanboys need to do something, and hate swtor is fun maybe. The truth about the game is this : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.33 mill of copies, 10k more than the last week. most of the servers are dead because everyone is playing on the high pop servers, also all the new players make their toons there. The swtor playersbase is waiting for the new ¨superservers¨ and the 1.3 update, so dont worry.
At least you admit that most of the servers are dead.
Where did you get your 10k number in 1 week from? I looked on that site and couldn't figure out how you got that number.
Till the 12th of may was 2.32 Mill now is at 2.33 Mill, thats 10k in a week. Everyone know about the dead servers, but it doesnt mean that the game is dead, the server cap is huge compared with what it was at launch, so people is rerolling or playing on high pop servers while they wait for the ¨superservers¨ to move all their toons there.
Here we go again, dont know why the people hate the game that much, probably because gw2 is not out yet, so the fanboys need to do something, and hate swtor is fun maybe. The truth about the game is this : http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/ 2.33 mill of copies, 10k more than the last week. most of the servers are dead because everyone is playing on the high pop servers, also all the new players make their toons there. The swtor playersbase is waiting for the new ¨superservers¨ and the 1.3 update, so dont worry.
At least you admit that most of the servers are dead.
Where did you get your 10k number in 1 week from? I looked on that site and couldn't figure out how you got that number.
Till the 12th of may was 2.32 Mill now is at 2.33 Mill, thats 10k in a week. Everyone know about the dead servers, but it doesnt mean that the game is dead, the server cap is huge compared with what it was at launch, so people is rerolling or playing on high pop servers while they wait for the ¨superservers¨ to move all their toons there.
Unless they are rounding.
It could literally have been 300 more people that put them over 2.325. I thought you actually had some real numbers. How much did the number go up in the last 2 weeks?
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
It failed sooner beause we have more options now than we did back then. SWTOR's decline, I won't say fail, is due in large part to MMOs become a genre for Nomads. We hop into a game and devour its content and move to the next. There was a time when I thought a greater sandbox element would help sustain people, but I don't believe that anymore. I truly think that the bulk of MMO players are actually content to be nomads. To have it delivered to them, hand held or whatever, they want the themepark so they can consume the content, "beat" the game so to speak and eagerly jump into the next game that's sure to be just around the corner anyhow.
Diversity is good to a point, our genre got popular a few years back thanks to a handful of games and now everyone wants in. With everyone wanting in we're going to have a plethora of choices and with those choices people are going to move and say the next one is the best one until it isn't anymore and then move again.
Food for thought....Zynga is the most profitable gaming company out there. Not EA, not Blizzard or anyone in between. Those people who make farmville and other facebook or 1 dollar app games, they're the ones at the tip of the new market and they're catering to what the next gen of gamers want.
What the old gen, or those of us trying to make a last stand because of what once was, wants...isn't likely to come to pass. Nomad up, it's the best it'll be.
WAR was a fail before it even left beta when it boiled things down to two sides and populated the sides with forces that are known to fight each other but where now team mates
I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
Your math is all mucked up, you didn't consider licensing fees for Star Wars from Lucas and the game engine from the company that licenses the Hero engine.
I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
Your math is all mucked up, you didn't consider licensing fees for Star Wars from Lucas and the game engine from the company that licenses the Hero engine.
Well my point was only to show that even if they didn't have to pay all that stuff and if it was a perfect world for them with 100% of sales they still aren't in the green. All that stuff that had to pay is just pushing them further and futher into the red. Plus I didn't know if the $210M it cost to develop included liscening fees and stuff.
I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
Your math is all mucked up, you didn't consider licensing fees for Star Wars from Lucas and the game engine from the company that licenses the Hero engine.
That's part of his point. Even if you look at it in the most positive light possible, they have not made any money yet.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
If SWTOR really has only 200-300K players left, then EA will shut it down very quickly. They shut down E&B because it wasn't "profitable enough", so they definitely won't run a loss-making game.
So as long as SWTOR is open for business, it means EA are making "enough" profit, regardless of what third-party sites may say about the population
EA might not be able to just shut down SWTOR when ever they want to. LA has a say in it I'm sure.
Comments
We need an independent video game review site very badly.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
We need a Fox News gaming site. They would thrive on just how pissed off they could make the developers.
hmm...your definition of server dead is very diferent from mine. if a server have lot of people on high lvl zone that isnt a dead server, but how can this be true is a server is marked as LOW population?
At least you admit that most of the servers are dead.
Where did you get your 10k number in 1 week from? I looked on that site and couldn't figure out how you got that number.
I'm confused to the point of the OP?
Your numbers dont actually have solid data behind it..
Servers that are claimed "dead" like Vrook Lamar..I play on and don't see the server as "dead" by any means..so..I don't get that. They remind me of low pop servers on most games today. They stay "Light", "Standard" occasionally on weekends.
These next few months decide whether SWTOR will fail or succeed in the long run. The "mega server" rumours could be the best possible solution for a game that's been hit more by an unreasonable consumer base then actual flaws.
My only hope that comes out of all of this is that one of two things happens :
1. MMORPG players start to realize that a game in its first year will not have all the bells and whisltes of a game that has been in constant development for 5+ years.
2. Companies will build a game, ignore release dates and release it when it was finished. They will stop trying to capitalize on the disgruntled mmorpg players, and build a quality game that has longevity rather then a quick cash burst.
--
The MMO landscape changed in 2004-2006. But people and companies are assuming it stayed the same..it hasn't. The massive numbers of people leaving new games (Rift, SWTOR...soon to be added : GW2 and TERA) should be a wake up call.
It's ironic that by "voting with your wallet" consumers are destroying the mmo industry. What's the point of investing in building a game that will be abandoned in 3 months because it doesn't have "X" ? It's like everyone expects a game to be perfect, and I think nostalgia has a big part in this.
Every new game is held to a higher standard then the game before it. Hopefully the non-sub model of GW2 will give it some slack.
This figure is just pulled out of your ass. Granted the 1.3 number is no where near close to reality the fact is we'll probably never know. The people that hate the game work to spin the numbers down and eaware spins them up. I'd agree the number is probably somewhere in the middle but who really knows.
Swtor will end up like WAR, in maintenance mode. EA already said they think of swtor more like gol f than madden, franchice
wise. that means it making money, just not enough to validate spending tons of money on content, sadly.
I do however believe they will make a try or 2 more to change things, before they put in in "WAR" mode.
Also, i think the reason this game failed, semi-failed, is simply because starwars in a very open, tons of "classes"
and personalities game, so you simply cant make a Starwars game based on current themepark/classe ideas..not gonna work for the fans.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
This isn't what review sites do though. If it's a big name, AAA title it seems almost every other review site lauds and heralds the coming of the game as an awesome addition to our genre because it has this or that or whatever. Then the sites go relatively quiet about it for months and when the games public opinion turns so to do the review sites, claiming how such a failure of a game should warn others or some such nonsense.
It happens with all kinds of games these days, sites claiming the game is awesome 8.5 out of 10 or whatever and the a small few months later they come back and tell us all how much a fail it was and why it failed like they're not just riding the waves of popular opinion.
I'd honestly pay a subscription to a site that was true about reviewing games based on the merits of the game themselves, not how much hype can or has been built up around such games.
Till the 12th of may was 2.32 Mill now is at 2.33 Mill, thats 10k in a week. Everyone know about the dead servers, but it doesnt mean that the game is dead, the server cap is huge compared with what it was at launch, so people is rerolling or playing on high pop servers while they wait for the ¨superservers¨ to move all their toons there.
Unless they are rounding.
It could literally have been 300 more people that put them over 2.325. I thought you actually had some real numbers. How much did the number go up in the last 2 weeks?
It failed sooner beause we have more options now than we did back then. SWTOR's decline, I won't say fail, is due in large part to MMOs become a genre for Nomads. We hop into a game and devour its content and move to the next. There was a time when I thought a greater sandbox element would help sustain people, but I don't believe that anymore. I truly think that the bulk of MMO players are actually content to be nomads. To have it delivered to them, hand held or whatever, they want the themepark so they can consume the content, "beat" the game so to speak and eagerly jump into the next game that's sure to be just around the corner anyhow.
Diversity is good to a point, our genre got popular a few years back thanks to a handful of games and now everyone wants in. With everyone wanting in we're going to have a plethora of choices and with those choices people are going to move and say the next one is the best one until it isn't anymore and then move again.
Food for thought....Zynga is the most profitable gaming company out there. Not EA, not Blizzard or anyone in between. Those people who make farmville and other facebook or 1 dollar app games, they're the ones at the tip of the new market and they're catering to what the next gen of gamers want.
What the old gen, or those of us trying to make a last stand because of what once was, wants...isn't likely to come to pass. Nomad up, it's the best it'll be.
While I don't play Swtor and I really don't like what has became of BW - this hatewagon is a bit too much and gotten very old tbh
They need to bring back the orange pixel everything has been downhill since it when away….
wow the fatman server used to be full at prime time (EST); this is worse than WAR
guess he was right?
http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/
i don't know jack..but i know his sister
WAR was a fail before it even left beta when it boiled things down to two sides and populated the sides with forces that are known to fight each other but where now team mates
Not such a louse after all is he? What we need is another disgruntled louse to come forward. Kinda surprised they haven't after the layoff.
I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
If the company is smart, F2P will save Swtor.... Oh Wait!.... EA has never been smart.
scratch that.....
Your math is all mucked up, you didn't consider licensing fees for Star Wars from Lucas and the game engine from the company that licenses the Hero engine.
Well my point was only to show that even if they didn't have to pay all that stuff and if it was a perfect world for them with 100% of sales they still aren't in the green. All that stuff that had to pay is just pushing them further and futher into the red. Plus I didn't know if the $210M it cost to develop included liscening fees and stuff.
That's part of his point. Even if you look at it in the most positive light possible, they have not made any money yet.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
EA might not be able to just shut down SWTOR when ever they want to. LA has a say in it I'm sure.