Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing is an aberration in my opinion.
For that kind of permanent alterations you have the personal quest in GW2.
I've played all mainstream MMORPGs and many smaller ones since Ultima Online, and I never saw something similar PvE wise, at least not to that extent. A failure on a DE can ripple through a whole area.
Sure, there's been cars with wheels pulled by horses before the invention of the motor, but are you sure is was the same? ;-)
Rift. The planar mobs would take the towns during the invasions if there weren't enough players to defend. The players would lose access to quests, vendors etc. I think they resolved the issue of lower populated servers not beng able to take them back by only having them occupied for a set time.
Yeah, that are somewhat similar but the big difference is that the rifts are all very similar and while they take over certain areas and kill off questgivermobs they don't spawn new DEs if they control enough or gets beaten.
But WAR would be a model T, Rift a 20s car and GW2 a modern if you use car comparisions. Asherons call would be the cart with horses.
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing is an aberration in my opinion.
For that kind of permanent alterations you have the personal quest in GW2.
So where is dynamic if everything comes back to old situation after few minutes???? It is same Rift dynamic and dude who posted this thread is right
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
DEs stay that way until you have beaten them back (or the server resets which might happen once in a while). Phasing sucks because it splits up the players and their goals.
Rightly used phasing do work, LOTRO have been using it to destroy certain towns as the story continues but Wow is overusing it the same way it does with instances.
The more people you are working on with a similar goal the better in my opinion, that is why I like GW2s mechanicws better.
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing is an aberration in my opinion.
For that kind of permanent alterations you have the personal quest in GW2.
So where is dynamic if everything comes back to old situation after few minutes???? It is same Rift dynamic and dude who posted this thread is right
Where's the dynamic if after you've done the quest everything will remain the same forever?
So where is dynamic if everything comes back to old situation after few minutes???? It is same Rift dynamic and dude who posted this thread is right
Nothing returns to how it was in GW2 there are no set timers. If an event changes the world in someway (like the poison in the waterworks or the skriit cave collapse) you need another event to bring them back to normal. There is even a chance that they will never turn back to normal.
The only non-dynamic effect of DEs is the boss spawn. Bosses spawn when certain conditions are met and then they spawn... don't confuse a "boss spawn" with a whole event
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
There are no dynamic events only events that have the Illusion of being dynamic. Only one game had true dynamic events and that was a long time ago. Today's MMOs are just shells of what MMOs can be.
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
I disagree, I thought it was a horrible feature for a multiplayer game to have. It forced me to do things I didn't want to do just to be able to join up with friends. There's no question it was a great way of providing single players with the impression that they'd had an impact, but it was terrible for friends and I if we were on different stages.
I'd much prefer not to have the impression of a permanent change (especially in a world like GW2 that's constantly in motion - I just don't think it's at all necessary in the context of their content), than to deal with the unavoidable segregation of phasing.
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing gives the illusion of dynamism, but in reality is only a change between two static situations. The next player will experience exactly the same than you, in the exactly same order. That is not dynamism, even though it's definitely an interesting mechanic that was very welcome in WoW back during WotLK. It's a nice story telling tool.
Dynamic means you will never know in which state you will find the world. Rift delivers a bit of that, even though it's very artificial and limited (marketing dynamism, actually only random mob spawners). GW2 takes it to a whole new level.
For instance, there's a fort with a wood fence in the south of the human starter area. The first time I went there, there were friendly NPCs, shops where I could sell my crap and buy other things, crafters, etc... I went back there a day later or so and the place was held by the enemy. But the enemy wasn't just some random mobs not even fitting the area, dropped by some random mob spawner, it was centaurs, fitting the lore, and you got a dynamic quest to free the outpost.
Another example, totally different, would be the story posted a bit earlier with the poisoned water. You never know how you will find the place when you arrive, that is dynamism.
Of course this could be done even better with a really dynamic world, migrating mobs, enemies building their own camps, etc, and I see that happening sometimes in the next 10 years too, but for now, GW2 is definitely a giant step in that direction.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Like I said earlier, was not out to see them, just did them as they came to me. Now alot of people will say people zerging them will ruin them, but to be honest I think these "zergs" were just like me in the sense of seeing something and jumping right in, and I dont blame them. Seeing a flame legion platoon attacking an outpost is an awesome sight, even better when your a part of the event.
I definitely agree. It's great to see things just happening around you and be able to jump in. Just keep in mind that, when the game gets released, people will soon be much more spread out throughout the game, severely reducing the number of "zergs" in one particular zone... thus increasing the chance that an event fails and triggers a subsequent event. And if you actively want to see the follow-up links to succeeded events... stick around, listen in on the conversations between npc's and don't hesitate to follow them around... it may well get you to an unexpected next link in the chain.
This is very important as there are events that will trigger after NPCs conversations; and sometimes the event that the player started not necessary means that it's the first part of the event, it may be the second; so perhaps a couple of days later you go into the same area and find out what really happened in the beginning of the chain. Cool stuff.
Like I said earlier, was not out to see them, just did them as they came to me. Now alot of people will say people zerging them will ruin them, but to be honest I think these "zergs" were just like me in the sense of seeing something and jumping right in, and I dont blame them. Seeing a flame legion platoon attacking an outpost is an awesome sight, even better when your a part of the event.
I definitely agree. It's great to see things just happening around you and be able to jump in. Just keep in mind that, when the game gets released, people will soon be much more spread out throughout the game, severely reducing the number of "zergs" in one particular zone... thus increasing the chance that an event fails and triggers a subsequent event. And if you actively want to see the follow-up links to succeeded events... stick around, listen in on the conversations between npc's and don't hesitate to follow them around... it may well get you to an unexpected next link in the chain.
This is very important as there are events that will trigger after NPCs conversations; and sometimes the event that the player started not necessary means that it's the first part of the event, it may be the second; so perhaps a couple of days later you go into the same area and find out what really happened in the beginning of the chain. Cool stuff.
I thought someone said events don't repeat? Would it be fair to say DEs follow a scripted chain of possible outcomes based on success or failure. And when the last stage of the script is run it starts all over based on the scripted trigger?
Throughout my time testing the game, I have tried to do every event that I can find in my area ( Charr zones ). I came across many, ran many, and repeated many, but I never felt that Impact that Arenanet has hyped as a key game component. When I killed the fire shaman, the game was not affected. When I stopped the harpy invasion on the gates of a city, I felt like a complete hero. Until they respawned 10 minutes later. Now I can go on and on with how many events I did ( and trust me I did alot ) but im just wondering if anyone has felt this impact that I haven't, sadly these events have left me with the impression of a slightly more difficult public quest system.
Some of us already knew what it was and did not fall for the fanboy hype on how its "world changing". They are just fun public quests, and some have consequences, that is all. Fail to stop the invasion? Maybe the town gets overrun by centaurs, now the quest becomes to kill all the centaurs, rinse n repeat. I think the consequences are pretty revolutionary, but definitely not innoative.
In the end all that matters is that you are having fun. Don't know about you, but I found it fun the first time around. Whether it stands the test of time is a different story.
If you stayed at one place and does the same thing over and over, then yes, you will have events that repeats.
I was able to level pass the area just by moving from one heart quest to another while doing the events that pops while i was near. I finished the chain, does what I needed, then I moved to explore another region. Never having to repeat the same event twice. The game does move you along unless you dont want to.
There was times where the events failed and other events needed to be accomplished, that was unique. But with the wave and wave of players, most events never fail so I only saw one outcome.
The Dynamic Events does exist, but if you stay long enough after the event finished, then you will eventually encounter the same event again. That is just unavoidable when its a themepark game and the quests are scripted. ( its unlike other mmo quest yet we are still bound by scripts )
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
My initial review of at least the first 17 levels was similar to the OP. I found a handful of dynamic events centered around the hart quest locations, and the majority of my gameplay revolved around running those same DEs over and over again until I was able to move farther through the map. I found some additional DEs off the beaten path, and I'm sure there were others I missed; however, I don't believe there are enough to where one can go through an entire area only completing each DE a single time, and even if there were, I can't imagine it being anything but a slow, laborious chore as you roamed every corner of the map searching for new events that you've missed. To make matters worse, you really aren't rewarded for completing those unique DEs any differently than you would by completing the cmmon ones.
As a result, my experience in PvE was a shallow one. I felt like the PvE was little else than zergfest minigame after zergfest minigame and there weren't enough unique DEs or DEs with enough variety for me to say that GW2's approach to PvE progression is a major improvement towards the traditional questing model.
Why did you have to wait around and do the same DE to wait to move farther into the map? That doesn't really make sense. Stop going to the hearts strictly to find DE. What was stopping you from moving to a different are completely or just try higher level MOBs?
When complaining people should at least give what level they reached. I've heard/seen many DE (like the one where the bridge collapses) happening in higher levels. You have to remember the game has 80 levels, not all of them are going to be "OMFG!".
Would you rather have this or just simple hub quest system?
Throughout my time testing the game, I have tried to do every event that I can find in my area ( Charr zones ). I came across many, ran many, and repeated many, but I never felt that Impact that Arenanet has hyped as a key game component. When I killed the fire shaman, the game was not affected. When I stopped the harpy invasion on the gates of a city, I felt like a complete hero. Until they respawned 10 minutes later. Now I can go on and on with how many events I did ( and trust me I did alot ) but im just wondering if anyone has felt this impact that I haven't, sadly these events have left me with the impression of a slightly more difficult public quest system.
Did you ever fail in an event? Did you ever happen upon an area where players failed in such events? The problem with the BWE is that there were so many people doing the events that they very rarely failed, so you only got to see one side of that particular event leg. I happened upon an outpost where such a failure occurred and a group of players collected at the entrance until we had enough to take the place back - which meant the vendors and other could come back into the outpost.
Dynamic events are not supposed to be earth shattering variations that permanently change the game world. They are quest systems that operate visually (dynamically) instead of by text where, in other games, those centaurs or bandits you have to kill will not ever take over the farm; in GW2, if you're not there to stop them, they will. And this may lead to further complications/events.
Perhaps you and others have imagined that the promised DE system was something more, but ANET never "hyped" it to be more than what it is - a visual, event-actually-occurring-in-real-time means of questing, where success and failure has persistent (not permanent) ramifications (the outpost is lost until players take it back, or the players have the outpost until it is taken by the brigands).
Of course doing the same event over and over is going to get repetitive, even if there are some variations involved, and even if you succeed or fail. Dynamic Events are not meant to offer unique experiences every time that result in permanent, game-world changes. Nobody claimed they would. Do you think if you repel an invasion, that should be it, they don't ever try again, and nobody else gets to experience that same event? I think maybe you're expecting too much and read too much into Anet's claims, or picked up some misinformation.
When I played the BWE, I asked the same question. Well, a related question, I should say.
Is this what they call Dynamic Events? Cause if so, this is severely overhyped.
The problem was two-fold. First, what I thought were 'dynamic events' were actually renown events. They're the equivalent of quests with a little more variety (in that you can usually contribute in multiple ways, and your progress is specific to you and you alone). They're simply there to help guide you through the zone, and really not much else.
The second problem was even greater: I had typical MMO syndrome and tried my damndest to just run as quickly as possible through zones. And that's the problem. This game doesn't play like typyical MMO's. Catching DE's usually requires slowing down, paying attention to dialogue amongst NPC's. I recall specifically a DE in the Norn area that takes place at the same location as the Heart event with the children and snowballs (god I hated that). But it branched several times with usually a 3-5 minute window between branches. First a kid wants to impress his father, so he develops an idea to have other hunters kill a ram behind their home. Once it's done, the kid collects the head for his father, who mounts it on the wall, which then becomes visible. Around this same time, the kids in the house are attempting to call upon Bear. The end result is a billion bears (I didn't count, but it sure as hell seemed that way) attacking and swarming everything. And not just 'oh here's some bears'. If you didn't pay attention, you would die. And a lot. After completing that, 3 or 4 merchants opened up, which I'm assuming would not have been there had you failed to kill the bears and the town overran.
And this all occurs in a level 1-15 zone. I dare you to give another example of a game which has events that are just that impactful on the world. Not everything that's 'impactful' means a building gets destroyed. Opening up NPC's (who in theory could have merchandise available nowhere else in the world) most definitely leaves an impact on the world. Seeing a chain progress to the point where the head of a ram you just killed appears on the side of a building for everyone to see is indeed an impact.
The main thing is slowing down. It's not your typical MMO and if you approach it with that mentality, you're not going to see it. I didn't the first time around, but watching the video I linked made me pay particular attention going into the stress test, and I got to witness several DE's progressing (there's also one nearby at the Shrine of Rabbit that progresses to killing a Yeti, and yet again you'd only know about it if you read NPC dialogue).
So where is dynamic if everything comes back to old situation after few minutes???? It is same Rift dynamic and dude who posted this thread is right
Nothing returns to how it was in GW2 there are no set timers. If an event changes the world in someway (like the poison in the waterworks or the skriit cave collapse) you need another event to bring them back to normal. There is even a chance that they will never turn back to normal.
The only non-dynamic effect of DEs is the boss spawn. Bosses spawn when certain conditions are met and then they spawn... don't confuse a "boss spawn" with a whole event
But your statement about the event chain that I brought up earlier bringing them back to normal has just added to how they are undynamic. Its likely, players who "look closely" will get to see the full chain of events, but for those who stumble upon one of them at a given time it will just be another event.
Like I said earlier, was not out to see them, just did them as they came to me. Now alot of people will say people zerging them will ruin them, but to be honest I think these "zergs" were just like me in the sense of seeing something and jumping right in, and I dont blame them. Seeing a flame legion platoon attacking an outpost is an awesome sight, even better when your a part of the event.
I definitely agree. It's great to see things just happening around you and be able to jump in. Just keep in mind that, when the game gets released, people will soon be much more spread out throughout the game, severely reducing the number of "zergs" in one particular zone... thus increasing the chance that an event fails and triggers a subsequent event. And if you actively want to see the follow-up links to succeeded events... stick around, listen in on the conversations between npc's and don't hesitate to follow them around... it may well get you to an unexpected next link in the chain.
This is very important as there are events that will trigger after NPCs conversations; and sometimes the event that the player started not necessary means that it's the first part of the event, it may be the second; so perhaps a couple of days later you go into the same area and find out what really happened in the beginning of the chain. Cool stuff.
I thought someone said events don't repeat? Would it be fair to say DEs follow a scripted chain of possible outcomes based on success or failure. And when the last stage of the script is run it starts all over based on the scripted trigger?
for example, if some enemies attack a town and players succeed to defend it, the npc there will say: ''We are safe now, at least until they attack again'' and after a while the enemies attack again. If the next time players fail to defend the town, then another even pop up to take the town back and the town will be captured until someone do the even, may take mins or hours.
I saw this while exploring the norn area, while moving to the next town on the map I discover that some elemental things took the town, I couldn't take it back because of my level, after a while when I went back to the town other players already had taken it, and the enemies were attacking again.
I think this way they have always content for players and for those who came 5 mins later.
for example, if some enemies attack a town and players succeed to defend it, the npc there will say: ''We are safe now, at least until they attack again'' and after a while the enemies attack again. If the next time players fail to defend the town, then another even pop up to take the town back and the town will be captured until someone do the even, may take mins or hours.
I saw this while exploring the norn area, while moving to the next town on the map I discover that some elemental things took the town, I couldn't take it back because of my level, after a while when I went back to the town other players already had taken it, and the enemies were attacking again.
I think this way they have always content for players and for those who came 5 mins later.
Yeah, that happens if the event is the end of a chain. If it isn´t it will spawn a new event further up the chain, and if the players fail that it will move down back to the first one you did again if you get the point.
Some events have no chains, others are 20+ linked together.
It is not like rift where they rain everywhere but are basically the same. I ran into one where we had to stop a centaur invasion. We did that and then went to another area to attack. It makes basic sense on the progression and how to do it.
I understand where OP is coming from. The events run on a cycle, and the more people that are in the area, the faster that cycle will repeat. So no, in the beginning when everyone's starting at the same time, clustered in one area, you're not going to see anything you do affect the world in any profound way. If you did, others would be unable to level appropriately, since those events are necessary at the very least in between Personal Story or, if you're ignoring that, to level at all.
When the population spreads out, this will become less of an issue. Further, there are higher level events that take much longer to cycle (Anet mentioned at one point some events may not cycle for days, even months) that we don't have access to. All in all, this is an issue that will remedy itself over time.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Tbh, before I got to play GW2 I so lowered my expectations for DE's since my view on it was: "It won't happen", that I am quite blown away by what they did.
Yeah, it's not properly dynamic or perfectly immersive or whatever. But nothing in a video game ever is, we appreciate the features that come as they are, and I always welcome when a developer tries something new. I haven't seen any non-representative hype on the issue. CaraErm or w/e his name was doesn't lie.
I had a very limited experience with DE's so far, I've only done them in the Charr starting area. I.e., I experienced barely anything. That alone, and I'm already convinced this is far, far, far better than what most MMO's do atm, even if there's no chaining. So I'll state my general experience with the system here.
1.
For one, there are no fetch quests. By that I mean exclamation marks you need to access to activate a quest. There are no gamey quest markers / activators, what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying there are no places where you need to talk to someone to activate something, I am saying questing is directly integrated into the game instead of being funneled through a fetch system. This is a huge improvement in terms of immersion of, honestly, epic proportions.
I am just walking around minding my business then SOME CHARR RUNS UP TO ME AND ASKS ME TO DO SOMETHING. Completely fluid, immersive conversation there. I can even say I will help him or ignore him. How would WoW do that? At best, you'd have an NPC run up to you and stand still with an eclamation mark, wait for you to right click him, and give you a wall of text. Yes, it's a big difference. When a quest feels like it's part of the world vs a quest in a game.
No more issues of missing quests, or having too many quests in your quest log, trying to collect all quests from a hub and having to read everything at once if you care about the lore... it just happens.
Even renown hearts are not configured in the usual manner, you can auto-do them without activating anything (maybe becuase someone else already did, not sure. But that's sort of the point). Or not do them.
2.
Quests are world-tied, not player tied. In most games, every quest is to be done by every player separately (even if they're in a group, you still have to separately collect your exclamation mark). Here, it's not about pseudo-instancing a personal quest, it's about doing a quest that's actually in the world.
And, what's better, efforts of other players affect them. I had a quest where I had to pick up some eggs and give them to this guy, and when more players joined, it started to ramp up and require more cooperation. I also recall being a bit competitive there and trying to deliver as many eggs as possible before everyone else so I would get a gold contribution.
The fact that other players actually affect how "your" quest goes is a big improvement for the MMO element. It means you're no longer doing quests in your own little mini-world. The quests are not about you, they're about the world. That's how quests should be.
Oh, I am not even talking about how convenient this is for group play. Assuming I'm not too low level in comparison, any player anywhere doing anything I can go jump in and help them without any sort of pre-work prior (in WoW I would probably need to abandon my present quests / collect his). No more "I don't have that quest. Share please". No more "Crap, I'm at the wrong part of the chain". Or "I want to do this first because there won't be a point otherwise." Do people not realize this or am I the only one who cares? And I'm largely a soloer. >>
3.
Quests/DE's are logical. Sure, they restart, but I never had an immersion break due to that. There's nothing immersion breaking against collecting some more eggs, killing some more Flame, I mean, Gold Legion (DIE GOLD LEGION DIE) "soldiers", or trying to fix an armory that broke down due to another attack. In fact, I haven't seen anything visibly reset the way it does in most games (i.e., you fire at some city, it disappears, then it reappears a minute later in front of your eyes). There was a cause and effect tied to it.
There may be some inner things that are not working logically. Something may be wrong somewhere. But, as a player, I don't see that, all I see is that Gold Legion keeps attacking a junkyard ("It's OUR junk!"). That makes sense. It's a big ass legion. Same with the ghosts, they're immortal and keep attacking, that also makes sense. On the other hand, killing 15 harpies than someone else kills 15 harpies then someone else but I am told there's not a harpy problem anymore makes no sense whatsoever.
The only thing I could say is that there's some lack of permanence. I.e., I can't really finish anything for good, and as a bit of a completinist, that kinda bothers me. I can't clean out that cave of bats for good and be happy, but at least that's not presented in the stupid "Oh, you cleared it. That's why we need 6 million more people to clear it, too" manner. Besides, pretty much all MMO's have continual respawns regardless. And I seen some chains on places like that. You have players (again, world-tied questing, not player-tied) clear out a cave, then something else happens in the cave. It does reset, eventually, but there's a much longer cycle on that. And sometimes player actually got stuck in a few places. That never happens in other MMO's.
Another thing I could say is I felt very limited early on because my level was low so I felt like I have to do these few events and hearts before I advance. It's actually not exactly true, though.
The one thing I have to note is that the things some people here "expected" are generally not simulatable in a video game.
For instance, continually chaining events. It's not that a game developer cannot setup complex dynamics where you have your centaur faction and players war against them and centaurs can get some ground while humans lose some and so on. You can do that. The problem is, having such long chains can actually cascade to the point where the humans will quickly completely lose or centaurs go extinct. What do you do then? That's stupidly difficult to balance and what if the playerbase is just not good enough? Or too good? Then the game basically ends. The Burning Legion has defeated Azeroth. Seriously. You players fucked up. Goodbye. (tbh, I wonder if there's a market for this, haha)
Long chains are usually lopsided and result in a complete removal of content from the game (imagine that Azeroth defeats the Burning Legion, kills everybody, closes the Dark Portal, w/e. Now, all that content is gone. GONE). That's a disastrous use of development time. Imagine if they just allowed the Charr events to gain some permanence. With that many people, they'd basically just kill all the flame legion and everything that was in there and the Charr area would be completely empty. There's probably some immersive value to that, but it's a waste of resources. That's why a lot of destructive sandboxes insist on destroying player-made stuff and often lack developer-made stuff. If someone destroyed your Titan, who cares (in fact, EVE has a tiny, tiny amount of actual developer content, lol).
I don't believe either of this is necessary for an immersive or enjoyable experience.
Don't expect what doesn't make any sense and shouldn't be done and you'll be fine.
Originally posted by palulalula
Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing has too many negative consequences, though. It essentially instantizes the game. I recall trying to play with a level 85 friend and couldn't see him becaues of some phased stuff in Northrend. No thanks.
Originally posted by Soandsoso
Rift. The planar mobs would take the towns during the invasions if there weren't enough players to defend. The players would lose access to quests, vendors etc. I think they resolved the issue of lower populated servers not beng able to take them back by only having them occupied for a set time.
And this was my favorite part of Rift and basically the sole reason I subbed on it. GW2 is expanding on that. You bet I'm in.
Originally posted by seridan
I think they should create "instances" of the same zone. When the population in Queensdale exceeds a certain number, a new instance of Queensdale is created. Something like the overflow system but with less numbers and more instances. That way the population will spread more evenly at the starting zones and we will see more DEs (I remember Aion having 35 instances of the starting zone at release)
I see where you're going with this, but, honestly, I always hated this stuff.
Originally posted by Yaevindusk
I know you specifically asked for a link regarding this, but I'll chime in that it's very possible that this is a reality. As you progress in game things change drastically. Heck, you don't even get to pick which faction you want to belong to until mid-game, and that changes the branch of your storyline yet again (in addition to your race and previous choices).
get the OP, understand it isnt 100% dynamic...but comparing it to Rift's rifts is stupid since those things might be dynamic, but are all the same and boring as hell
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Phasing is the only way to have world affected by player. Dynamic events without phasing are simply not dynamic because after few minutes everything comes back to old . Best phasing i ever saw is in wow from Northrend to Cata lands, so when you finish quests world is different but only for players who did finished the quests. So if you didnt finish quests you cant see players in this land because they are in different world with different situation
Phasing is an aberration in my opinion.
For that kind of permanent alterations you have the personal quest in GW2.
Yeah, that are somewhat similar but the big difference is that the rifts are all very similar and while they take over certain areas and kill off questgivermobs they don't spawn new DEs if they control enough or gets beaten.
But WAR would be a model T, Rift a 20s car and GW2 a modern if you use car comparisions. Asherons call would be the cart with horses.
So where is dynamic if everything comes back to old situation after few minutes???? It is same Rift dynamic and dude who posted this thread is right
DEs stay that way until you have beaten them back (or the server resets which might happen once in a while). Phasing sucks because it splits up the players and their goals.
Rightly used phasing do work, LOTRO have been using it to destroy certain towns as the story continues but Wow is overusing it the same way it does with instances.
The more people you are working on with a similar goal the better in my opinion, that is why I like GW2s mechanicws better.
Where's the dynamic if after you've done the quest everything will remain the same forever?
Nothing returns to how it was in GW2 there are no set timers. If an event changes the world in someway (like the poison in the waterworks or the skriit cave collapse) you need another event to bring them back to normal. There is even a chance that they will never turn back to normal.
The only non-dynamic effect of DEs is the boss spawn. Bosses spawn when certain conditions are met and then they spawn... don't confuse a "boss spawn" with a whole event
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
There are no dynamic events only events that have the Illusion of being dynamic. Only one game had true dynamic events and that was a long time ago. Today's MMOs are just shells of what MMOs can be.
I disagree, I thought it was a horrible feature for a multiplayer game to have. It forced me to do things I didn't want to do just to be able to join up with friends. There's no question it was a great way of providing single players with the impression that they'd had an impact, but it was terrible for friends and I if we were on different stages.
I'd much prefer not to have the impression of a permanent change (especially in a world like GW2 that's constantly in motion - I just don't think it's at all necessary in the context of their content), than to deal with the unavoidable segregation of phasing.
Phasing gives the illusion of dynamism, but in reality is only a change between two static situations. The next player will experience exactly the same than you, in the exactly same order. That is not dynamism, even though it's definitely an interesting mechanic that was very welcome in WoW back during WotLK. It's a nice story telling tool.
Dynamic means you will never know in which state you will find the world. Rift delivers a bit of that, even though it's very artificial and limited (marketing dynamism, actually only random mob spawners). GW2 takes it to a whole new level.
For instance, there's a fort with a wood fence in the south of the human starter area. The first time I went there, there were friendly NPCs, shops where I could sell my crap and buy other things, crafters, etc... I went back there a day later or so and the place was held by the enemy. But the enemy wasn't just some random mobs not even fitting the area, dropped by some random mob spawner, it was centaurs, fitting the lore, and you got a dynamic quest to free the outpost.
Another example, totally different, would be the story posted a bit earlier with the poisoned water. You never know how you will find the place when you arrive, that is dynamism.
Of course this could be done even better with a really dynamic world, migrating mobs, enemies building their own camps, etc, and I see that happening sometimes in the next 10 years too, but for now, GW2 is definitely a giant step in that direction.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
This is very important as there are events that will trigger after NPCs conversations; and sometimes the event that the player started not necessary means that it's the first part of the event, it may be the second; so perhaps a couple of days later you go into the same area and find out what really happened in the beginning of the chain. Cool stuff.
I thought someone said events don't repeat? Would it be fair to say DEs follow a scripted chain of possible outcomes based on success or failure. And when the last stage of the script is run it starts all over based on the scripted trigger?
Some of us already knew what it was and did not fall for the fanboy hype on how its "world changing". They are just fun public quests, and some have consequences, that is all. Fail to stop the invasion? Maybe the town gets overrun by centaurs, now the quest becomes to kill all the centaurs, rinse n repeat. I think the consequences are pretty revolutionary, but definitely not innoative.
In the end all that matters is that you are having fun. Don't know about you, but I found it fun the first time around. Whether it stands the test of time is a different story.
If you stayed at one place and does the same thing over and over, then yes, you will have events that repeats.
I was able to level pass the area just by moving from one heart quest to another while doing the events that pops while i was near. I finished the chain, does what I needed, then I moved to explore another region. Never having to repeat the same event twice. The game does move you along unless you dont want to.
There was times where the events failed and other events needed to be accomplished, that was unique. But with the wave and wave of players, most events never fail so I only saw one outcome.
The Dynamic Events does exist, but if you stay long enough after the event finished, then you will eventually encounter the same event again. That is just unavoidable when its a themepark game and the quests are scripted. ( its unlike other mmo quest yet we are still bound by scripts )
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Why did you have to wait around and do the same DE to wait to move farther into the map? That doesn't really make sense. Stop going to the hearts strictly to find DE. What was stopping you from moving to a different are completely or just try higher level MOBs?
When complaining people should at least give what level they reached. I've heard/seen many DE (like the one where the bridge collapses) happening in higher levels. You have to remember the game has 80 levels, not all of them are going to be "OMFG!".
Would you rather have this or just simple hub quest system?
It'd make sense to me that they focus more on the Hearts than DE's in the early levels to not overwhelm people and give more structure/direction.
That being said, I would like to see more DE's in the lower levels.
But between Hearts, DE's, and Personal Story I was never lacking for something to do in PvE.
Did you ever fail in an event? Did you ever happen upon an area where players failed in such events? The problem with the BWE is that there were so many people doing the events that they very rarely failed, so you only got to see one side of that particular event leg. I happened upon an outpost where such a failure occurred and a group of players collected at the entrance until we had enough to take the place back - which meant the vendors and other could come back into the outpost.
Dynamic events are not supposed to be earth shattering variations that permanently change the game world. They are quest systems that operate visually (dynamically) instead of by text where, in other games, those centaurs or bandits you have to kill will not ever take over the farm; in GW2, if you're not there to stop them, they will. And this may lead to further complications/events.
Perhaps you and others have imagined that the promised DE system was something more, but ANET never "hyped" it to be more than what it is - a visual, event-actually-occurring-in-real-time means of questing, where success and failure has persistent (not permanent) ramifications (the outpost is lost until players take it back, or the players have the outpost until it is taken by the brigands).
Of course doing the same event over and over is going to get repetitive, even if there are some variations involved, and even if you succeed or fail. Dynamic Events are not meant to offer unique experiences every time that result in permanent, game-world changes. Nobody claimed they would. Do you think if you repel an invasion, that should be it, they don't ever try again, and nobody else gets to experience that same event? I think maybe you're expecting too much and read too much into Anet's claims, or picked up some misinformation.
When I played the BWE, I asked the same question. Well, a related question, I should say.
Is this what they call Dynamic Events? Cause if so, this is severely overhyped.
The problem was two-fold. First, what I thought were 'dynamic events' were actually renown events. They're the equivalent of quests with a little more variety (in that you can usually contribute in multiple ways, and your progress is specific to you and you alone). They're simply there to help guide you through the zone, and really not much else.
The second problem was even greater: I had typical MMO syndrome and tried my damndest to just run as quickly as possible through zones. And that's the problem. This game doesn't play like typyical MMO's. Catching DE's usually requires slowing down, paying attention to dialogue amongst NPC's. I recall specifically a DE in the Norn area that takes place at the same location as the Heart event with the children and snowballs (god I hated that). But it branched several times with usually a 3-5 minute window between branches. First a kid wants to impress his father, so he develops an idea to have other hunters kill a ram behind their home. Once it's done, the kid collects the head for his father, who mounts it on the wall, which then becomes visible. Around this same time, the kids in the house are attempting to call upon Bear. The end result is a billion bears (I didn't count, but it sure as hell seemed that way) attacking and swarming everything. And not just 'oh here's some bears'. If you didn't pay attention, you would die. And a lot. After completing that, 3 or 4 merchants opened up, which I'm assuming would not have been there had you failed to kill the bears and the town overran.
There's a video on the net featuring the entirity of this very same DE. It's not MY video, but it's the exact event I explained.
And this all occurs in a level 1-15 zone. I dare you to give another example of a game which has events that are just that impactful on the world. Not everything that's 'impactful' means a building gets destroyed. Opening up NPC's (who in theory could have merchandise available nowhere else in the world) most definitely leaves an impact on the world. Seeing a chain progress to the point where the head of a ram you just killed appears on the side of a building for everyone to see is indeed an impact.
The main thing is slowing down. It's not your typical MMO and if you approach it with that mentality, you're not going to see it. I didn't the first time around, but watching the video I linked made me pay particular attention going into the stress test, and I got to witness several DE's progressing (there's also one nearby at the Shrine of Rabbit that progresses to killing a Yeti, and yet again you'd only know about it if you read NPC dialogue).
But your statement about the event chain that I brought up earlier bringing them back to normal has just added to how they are undynamic. Its likely, players who "look closely" will get to see the full chain of events, but for those who stumble upon one of them at a given time it will just be another event.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
for example, if some enemies attack a town and players succeed to defend it, the npc there will say: ''We are safe now, at least until they attack again'' and after a while the enemies attack again. If the next time players fail to defend the town, then another even pop up to take the town back and the town will be captured until someone do the even, may take mins or hours.
I saw this while exploring the norn area, while moving to the next town on the map I discover that some elemental things took the town, I couldn't take it back because of my level, after a while when I went back to the town other players already had taken it, and the enemies were attacking again.
I think this way they have always content for players and for those who came 5 mins later.
Yeah, that happens if the event is the end of a chain. If it isn´t it will spawn a new event further up the chain, and if the players fail that it will move down back to the first one you did again if you get the point.
Some events have no chains, others are 20+ linked together.
It is not like rift where they rain everywhere but are basically the same. I ran into one where we had to stop a centaur invasion. We did that and then went to another area to attack. It makes basic sense on the progression and how to do it.
I understand where OP is coming from. The events run on a cycle, and the more people that are in the area, the faster that cycle will repeat. So no, in the beginning when everyone's starting at the same time, clustered in one area, you're not going to see anything you do affect the world in any profound way. If you did, others would be unable to level appropriately, since those events are necessary at the very least in between Personal Story or, if you're ignoring that, to level at all.
When the population spreads out, this will become less of an issue. Further, there are higher level events that take much longer to cycle (Anet mentioned at one point some events may not cycle for days, even months) that we don't have access to. All in all, this is an issue that will remedy itself over time.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Tbh, before I got to play GW2 I so lowered my expectations for DE's since my view on it was: "It won't happen", that I am quite blown away by what they did.
Yeah, it's not properly dynamic or perfectly immersive or whatever. But nothing in a video game ever is, we appreciate the features that come as they are, and I always welcome when a developer tries something new. I haven't seen any non-representative hype on the issue. CaraErm or w/e his name was doesn't lie.
I had a very limited experience with DE's so far, I've only done them in the Charr starting area. I.e., I experienced barely anything. That alone, and I'm already convinced this is far, far, far better than what most MMO's do atm, even if there's no chaining. So I'll state my general experience with the system here.
1.
For one, there are no fetch quests. By that I mean exclamation marks you need to access to activate a quest. There are no gamey quest markers / activators, what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying there are no places where you need to talk to someone to activate something, I am saying questing is directly integrated into the game instead of being funneled through a fetch system. This is a huge improvement in terms of immersion of, honestly, epic proportions.
I am just walking around minding my business then SOME CHARR RUNS UP TO ME AND ASKS ME TO DO SOMETHING. Completely fluid, immersive conversation there. I can even say I will help him or ignore him. How would WoW do that? At best, you'd have an NPC run up to you and stand still with an eclamation mark, wait for you to right click him, and give you a wall of text. Yes, it's a big difference. When a quest feels like it's part of the world vs a quest in a game.
No more issues of missing quests, or having too many quests in your quest log, trying to collect all quests from a hub and having to read everything at once if you care about the lore... it just happens.
Even renown hearts are not configured in the usual manner, you can auto-do them without activating anything (maybe becuase someone else already did, not sure. But that's sort of the point). Or not do them.
2.
Quests are world-tied, not player tied. In most games, every quest is to be done by every player separately (even if they're in a group, you still have to separately collect your exclamation mark). Here, it's not about pseudo-instancing a personal quest, it's about doing a quest that's actually in the world.
And, what's better, efforts of other players affect them. I had a quest where I had to pick up some eggs and give them to this guy, and when more players joined, it started to ramp up and require more cooperation. I also recall being a bit competitive there and trying to deliver as many eggs as possible before everyone else so I would get a gold contribution.
The fact that other players actually affect how "your" quest goes is a big improvement for the MMO element. It means you're no longer doing quests in your own little mini-world. The quests are not about you, they're about the world. That's how quests should be.
Oh, I am not even talking about how convenient this is for group play. Assuming I'm not too low level in comparison, any player anywhere doing anything I can go jump in and help them without any sort of pre-work prior (in WoW I would probably need to abandon my present quests / collect his). No more "I don't have that quest. Share please". No more "Crap, I'm at the wrong part of the chain". Or "I want to do this first because there won't be a point otherwise." Do people not realize this or am I the only one who cares? And I'm largely a soloer. >>
3.
Quests/DE's are logical. Sure, they restart, but I never had an immersion break due to that. There's nothing immersion breaking against collecting some more eggs, killing some more Flame, I mean, Gold Legion (DIE GOLD LEGION DIE) "soldiers", or trying to fix an armory that broke down due to another attack. In fact, I haven't seen anything visibly reset the way it does in most games (i.e., you fire at some city, it disappears, then it reappears a minute later in front of your eyes). There was a cause and effect tied to it.
There may be some inner things that are not working logically. Something may be wrong somewhere. But, as a player, I don't see that, all I see is that Gold Legion keeps attacking a junkyard ("It's OUR junk!"). That makes sense. It's a big ass legion. Same with the ghosts, they're immortal and keep attacking, that also makes sense. On the other hand, killing 15 harpies than someone else kills 15 harpies then someone else but I am told there's not a harpy problem anymore makes no sense whatsoever.
The only thing I could say is that there's some lack of permanence. I.e., I can't really finish anything for good, and as a bit of a completinist, that kinda bothers me. I can't clean out that cave of bats for good and be happy, but at least that's not presented in the stupid "Oh, you cleared it. That's why we need 6 million more people to clear it, too" manner. Besides, pretty much all MMO's have continual respawns regardless. And I seen some chains on places like that. You have players (again, world-tied questing, not player-tied) clear out a cave, then something else happens in the cave. It does reset, eventually, but there's a much longer cycle on that. And sometimes player actually got stuck in a few places. That never happens in other MMO's.
Another thing I could say is I felt very limited early on because my level was low so I felt like I have to do these few events and hearts before I advance. It's actually not exactly true, though.
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The one thing I have to note is that the things some people here "expected" are generally not simulatable in a video game.
For instance, continually chaining events. It's not that a game developer cannot setup complex dynamics where you have your centaur faction and players war against them and centaurs can get some ground while humans lose some and so on. You can do that. The problem is, having such long chains can actually cascade to the point where the humans will quickly completely lose or centaurs go extinct. What do you do then? That's stupidly difficult to balance and what if the playerbase is just not good enough? Or too good? Then the game basically ends. The Burning Legion has defeated Azeroth. Seriously. You players fucked up. Goodbye. (tbh, I wonder if there's a market for this, haha)
Long chains are usually lopsided and result in a complete removal of content from the game (imagine that Azeroth defeats the Burning Legion, kills everybody, closes the Dark Portal, w/e. Now, all that content is gone. GONE). That's a disastrous use of development time. Imagine if they just allowed the Charr events to gain some permanence. With that many people, they'd basically just kill all the flame legion and everything that was in there and the Charr area would be completely empty. There's probably some immersive value to that, but it's a waste of resources. That's why a lot of destructive sandboxes insist on destroying player-made stuff and often lack developer-made stuff. If someone destroyed your Titan, who cares (in fact, EVE has a tiny, tiny amount of actual developer content, lol).
I don't believe either of this is necessary for an immersive or enjoyable experience.
Don't expect what doesn't make any sense and shouldn't be done and you'll be fine.
Phasing has too many negative consequences, though. It essentially instantizes the game. I recall trying to play with a level 85 friend and couldn't see him becaues of some phased stuff in Northrend. No thanks.
And this was my favorite part of Rift and basically the sole reason I subbed on it. GW2 is expanding on that. You bet I'm in.
I see where you're going with this, but, honestly, I always hated this stuff.
I didn't know that was even a thing, lol!
I can just listen to that dude all day.
get the OP, understand it isnt 100% dynamic...but comparing it to Rift's rifts is stupid since those things might be dynamic, but are all the same and boring as hell
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED