Like so many others, I'm trying to figure out why the OP even cares. I wonder how he thinks he speaks for all of us, especially those of us who have been on this site years longer than he has. How about you go read about the games you are interested in, and don't worry about everyone else.
Hell, at any given time, there are maybe five games I care about on this site. The rest are just background noise. Go look at the game list and ask yourself how many of those games even register on your radar, and how many of them barely qualify as an MMORPG. Most mainstream themeparks games are MMOG's without the RPG aspect. Day Z is much closer in spirit and execution to what a truly online role playing game should be like than WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, TSW, etc in my mind. Some of those are good games, but they aren't really Role Playing Games. They are linear themeparks that stuff a story down your throat, where Day Z reminds people that it is fun to make and tell your own stories with virtual world games.
Also this is a website where enthusiasts spend a lot of time talking about game mechanics and design, as well as the busisness and politics of the gaming sector. Day Z is a very important development in gaming, and it has the potential to have a lot of impact on current and future MMO games.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'd also like to add that it really is the persistant world database that was added that changes this game more towards being an MMO. The fact is, in modern MMO's you are only playing with 50-100 people in a given area anyway. It doesn't matter if 20,000 people are connected to your server if you can't see them.
In Day Z, you cn create a character, fight for survival, log off and then log on to any other Day Z server and continue your adventure with tens of thousands of other people who are enjoying Day Z. Sometimes you will see people you have played with before, and very often you will see new people. To me, the different mod servers act a bit like instanced zones of a larger game community. The persistant database makes it possible.
You may not like how it works, and you may not like that it is an FPS mod, but who are you to decide that it's not an MMORPG game based on some arbitrary feature list you have in your head? Who are you to decide what arrangement of software and hardware qualifies an an MMO? As I said before, visit the MMORPG.com game list and start compiling features of all those obscure games, then come back and tell me Day Z doesn't qualify.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Considering nearly all of the features of Day Z (massive world, online play with 100s of people, persistant servers) are all completely within ArmA 2 itself, not the mod, it seems extremely disingenuous to list Day Z on here but not ArmA 2 itself. The only real feature Day Z adds that ArmA 2 did not already have was the persistant character database across servers. Very little of the actual content in Day Z is new, a fact which would be more than apparent to anyone who had actually played ArmA 2 beforehand.
I can see how it has the makings of a good MMO, I have thought that myself, but as it is it is not an MMO, it will never be an MMO while it is a mod, and to wish it were one does not make it so. The lack of basic logic and knowledge of the base game in this decision is staggering and continues this sites slow slide into a general gaming site rather than an MMO site.
This single feature is what makes DayZ stand out from any other ArmA 2 mod and makes it more MMO like than any other mod. Also the need for food and drink as well as the need for medical care if you get injured(Some cures you have to get someone elses help). The harsh reality of permadeath also makes this unique among ArmA 2 mods when you consider the persistance of your character and the fact that you don't spawn with much of a kit... that is something you need to build through surviving the very harsh environment. Saying this is "Just another ArmA 2 mod" is just asinine to say the least. Nothing even close to this mod has been made for this game in the 2 years I've been playing it. DayZ stands alone.
Considering nearly all of the features of Day Z (massive world, online play with 100s of people, persistant servers) are all completely within ArmA 2 itself, not the mod, it seems extremely disingenuous to list Day Z on here but not ArmA 2 itself. The only real feature Day Z adds that ArmA 2 did not already have was the persistant character database across servers. Very little of the actual content in Day Z is new, a fact which would be more than apparent to anyone who had actually played ArmA 2 beforehand.
I can see how it has the makings of a good MMO, I have thought that myself, but as it is it is not an MMO, it will never be an MMO while it is a mod, and to wish it were one does not make it so. The lack of basic logic and knowledge of the base game in this decision is staggering and continues this sites slow slide into a general gaming site rather than an MMO site.
This single feature is what makes DayZ stand out from any other ArmA 2 mod and makes it more MMO like than any other mod. Also the need for food and drink as well as the need for medical care if you get injured(Some cures you have to get someone elses help). The harsh reality of permadeath also makes this unique among ArmA 2 mods when you consider the persistance of your character and the fact that you don't spawn with much of a kit... that is something you need to build through surviving the very harsh environment. Saying this is "Just another ArmA 2 mod" is just asinine to say the least. Nothing even close to this mod has been made for this game in the 2 years I've been playing it. DayZ stands alone.
Bren
The harsh reality of permadeath? The only thing you can improve on your character is gear and humanity, which is absolutely useless at the moment. The same could be said for nearly anyother mode of ArmA where if you die you need to go grab all of your gear back. A food and drink system have been used in other ArmA mods, the City Life ones most notably, all be it in a less refined form, and a medic system is included into the base game, although again, in a somewhat lesser form (DayZ's system can be downright stupid in certain places).
So with all those things considered the only unique advantage DayZ has is a persistant player database amongst its servers which is just about the norm for pretty much every online game thats come out in the last decade, from Diablo to Company of Heroes, to Battlefield. That hardly makes any of them MMOs.
At no point did I say it was "just another ArmA 2 mod" so I can see how you are confused on the facts as apparently you hallucinate words on your screen, because it is not, it is one of the most interesting mods I think I have ever seen for the series since I first played OFP. I love the ArmA series and I think DayZ is an awesome mod, however it is not an MMO and just because peoples emotional responses are that it is does not make it logically right.
I'm with MikeB on this one. I don't understand why everyone is up in a bunch about the addition of this and other games. I think it's great the mods here add games/mods that could be of interest to MMO gamers.
Considering nearly all of the features of Day Z (massive world, online play with 100s of people, persistant servers) are all completely within ArmA 2 itself, not the mod, it seems extremely disingenuous to list Day Z on here but not ArmA 2 itself. The only real feature Day Z adds that ArmA 2 did not already have was the persistant character database across servers. Very little of the actual content in Day Z is new, a fact which would be more than apparent to anyone who had actually played ArmA 2 beforehand.
I can see how it has the makings of a good MMO, I have thought that myself, but as it is it is not an MMO, it will never be an MMO while it is a mod, and to wish it were one does not make it so. The lack of basic logic and knowledge of the base game in this decision is staggering and continues this sites slow slide into a general gaming site rather than an MMO site.
This single feature is what makes DayZ stand out from any other ArmA 2 mod and makes it more MMO like than any other mod. Also the need for food and drink as well as the need for medical care if you get injured(Some cures you have to get someone elses help). The harsh reality of permadeath also makes this unique among ArmA 2 mods when you consider the persistance of your character and the fact that you don't spawn with much of a kit... that is something you need to build through surviving the very harsh environment. Saying this is "Just another ArmA 2 mod" is just asinine to say the least. Nothing even close to this mod has been made for this game in the 2 years I've been playing it. DayZ stands alone.
Bren
The harsh reality of permadeath? The only thing you can improve on your character is gear and humanity, which is absolutely useless at the moment. The same could be said for nearly anyother mode of ArmA where if you die you need to go grab all of your gear back. A food and drink system have been used in other ArmA mods, the City Life ones most notably, all be it in a less refined form, and a medic system is included into the base game, although again, in a somewhat lesser form (DayZ's system can be downright stupid in certain places).
So with all those things considered the only unique advantage DayZ has is a persistant player database amongst its servers which is just about the norm for pretty much every online game thats come out in the last decade, from Diablo to Company of Heroes, to Battlefield. That hardly makes any of them MMOs.
At no point did I say it was "just another ArmA 2 mod" so I can see how you are confused on the facts as apparently you hallucinate words on your screen, because it is not, it is one of the most interesting mods I think I have ever seen for the series since I first played OFP. I love the ArmA series and I think DayZ is an awesome mod, however it is not an MMO and just because peoples emotional responses are that it is does not make it logically right.
Look, I know all of those things are either in other mods or in the base game. Like I said I've been playing it for well over 2 years now. My point was that with the persistent character across all servers it makes them all a whole lot more meaningful in DayZ. You don't just pick a rifleman and respawn with the entire rifleman kit every time. You respawn with basically next to nothing and you have to find all of that stuff all over again. This is what makes the permadeath in DayZ a lot more harsh than in most ArmA 2 mods. No, you never said DayZ was just another ArmA 2 mod but the entire tone of your original post implied it.
Look, we are all one community here of game players...some of us come from the days of Gary Gygax PNP rpgs, others from the early days of Pool of Radiance, some from the dawn of the modern MMO (UO, Everquest), some from the Wow boom, and others who are just new to MMOs in general, so there is a wide range of history and intersts, and what defines a mmo to each and everyone...
But MMORPG.com is a site that caters to our interests in this genre, not only what we play, but also, and this is the big point what we considered the direction of the genre as a whole...
Whether we want to argue the semantical obsession of what is an MMO or what defines an RPG, or even game vs. mod, the point is we are here to encourage and find other games that peek the general interest of players...
So why shoudl DayZ be on here?
Because in the last few weeks, this little mod has offered more fun and features that a majority of this community have screamed about for a long time....that no major relaese in the last couple years has had such a wild round of acceptance and in such a short time...
By embracing DayZ and its little mod that could philosphy, we are sending a message to the industry that we are tired of the crap coming out of the traditonal defined MMO/RPG and want and desire something different, fresh and exciting...
I hate FPS and will never play Arma 2, nor any of the COD, Battlefield games, but I love DayZ, not for shooting mofos, but for the intense immersive feeling and the desire to survive...I have never been more attached to my character in any MMO than I have recently to a hunter I made that lasted over 2 days...each minute I played after that became a crucial life or death decision, moments of fight or flee, risk vs reward, the importance of patience over spped, pulled me in deeper than any game out there...
I was roleplaying organically and that does not come from running around starbases trying to get from planet to planet where there are no threats or dangers...
I have been more bored and disappointed by almost all MMOS and single player RPGs in the lsat couple of years than I am in this little mod....
We as a community have a desire to talk about DayZ, whether good or bad, in a way and in popularity, that most MMOS dont even get talked about in months of forum discussion on this site (like Alganon or DCU) and the fact that DayZ had had over 50,000 players playing concurrently in one day and people are fighting to get on servers is tale that some games really need to learn...
I found this game from this forum and would have never discovered it otherwise...
So DayZ stays and other games need to ask themselves what they can learn from the success of this mod..
Besides wasn't this whole MOBA push come from a mod, too?
I don't really understand the hatred towards adding this to the site. As others have said it has features that mmo's of the past had and those of late have forgotten about. If anything it's a nice lump of features that i've been missing for a while. And i'm extremely glad this website began posting about it because this is where I first heard of it and i'll be purchasing either tonight or tomorrow (not sure if I want my first playthrough to be during the night haha).
Its not even a game. its a mod. This is getting ridiculas.
Agreed, the more crap like this they post on this site it's getting harder and harder to spot the actual real mmorpg's on this site, without some research involved. I wish they had separate news/forum feeds, one for real mmorpgs and then another for basic multiplayer games (or mods) because this site is getting more and more just another standard gaming site with misleading site name.
As much as I agree with the majority of what is being said, in defense of DayZ, it's more mmorpg then it appears from first glance.. However it dosent fit into the mmo tag perfectly, but if you actually play the game, you will indeed, understand that it has every right to be on this site. I'm thankful it DID pop up, as I'm tired of the same ol crap that is being produced and flooded onto this site. Clone after stinking clone, massive AAA "flop" products, its a breathe of fresh air to the genre. Not everyone is going to agree with me on this point, thats ok. But we can ALL agree, that the mmorpg genre itself, has been dissappointing in the last numerous releases. So take a chance, give DayZ a shot at the mmorpg title, then you will see it has what it takes to be called "mmorpg"
Honestly i have nothing against this game, or many of the other games on this site.
I just have an issue wading through 50 inactive old game, 100 non mmorpg, and locating mmorpgs (client based) something this site use to be king of.
Now its a cesspool of anything online.
I think spending a week sorthing this sites games, keeping the client based mmorpgs (active games made in the last decade) on the main list, then sorting the legacy games, inactive games, browser games, DOTA games, arcade online RPGs (D3/TL/POE) FPS games and games that have been in development or beta for longer than one year into their own respective links.
It would make browsing this site easier, would enforce the URL title of this site, would make finding all the offshoots and other type of games easier for those who do like them.
i mean...FFS...if this site spent a third of the effort they spend on forum-stalinism, and devoted that to keeping the list tidy and sorted...this site would be phenominal, like it use to be.
Im not the only one who finds this site a sloppy mess of anything online and game related and i feel i miss a lot of good games on the site because they get drowned out with the mmo-spam thats happend here in the last two years...and its only getting worse.
Im getting to the point where i might as well just make my own damn site since this one has lost any form of direction or managment other than banning forum users.
The MMO genre is evolving and will continue to do so in the future. Any site that restricts it's coverage to games that only fit the "classic" definition of MMORPG's (e.g. EQ, WOW, etc.) will see it's userbase shrink and dissappear over time.
This game is played in an online persistant world and it allows the players to roleplay, and that is the essence of MMORPG's.
For me DayZ represents the potential that early MMOs held for the future much more than just about any modern MMO. Where modern MMOs have become over-designed, bloated and abstracted beyond any reasonable definition of the word "simulation" (which is what P&P RPGs aimed to be), DayZ gives you a world, a set of mechanics and leaves you to it. It is refreshing and liberating to discover how little you need to find yourself immersed in a persistent, virtual world after being shackled to increasingly gamey systems for so long.
The ideas and design philosophy behind DayZ have a lot that MMORPGs could learn from, and its popularity proves that what it's trying to do has legs. It's gained 150,000 players in a couple of months with no advertising budget and no big-name developers behind it, purely because it has captured the imaginations of frustrated gamers across the world.
The fact that it's a third-party mod for a non-MMO is irrelevent. In fact, its experimental nature and the innovation it brings is absolutely impossible in the high-cost, high-risk environment of the traditional MMO space. DayZ is to MMOs what the Sex Pistols were to the stagnant, overly safe music industry of the 1970s. And yeah, I'm old enough to remember that too.
For me DayZ represents the potential that early MMOs held for the future much more than just about any modern MMO. Where modern MMOs have become over-designed, bloated and abstracted beyond any reasonable definition of the word "simulation" (which is what P&P RPGs aimed to be), DayZ gives you a world, a set of mechanics and leaves you to it. It is refreshing and liberating to discover how little you need to find yourself immersed in a persistent, virtual world after being shackled to increasingly gamey systems for so long.
The ideas and design philosophy behind DayZ have a lot that MMORPGs could learn from, and its popularity proves that what it's trying to do has legs. It's gained 150,000 players in a couple of months with no advertising budget and no big-name developers behind it, purely because it has captured the imaginations of frustrated gamers across the world.
The fact that it's a third-party mod for a non-MMO is irrelevent. In fact, its experimental nature and the innovation it brings is absolutely impossible in the high-cost, high-risk environment of the traditional MMO space. DayZ is to MMOs what the Sex Pistols were to the stagnant, overly safe music industry of the 1970s. And yeah, I'm old enough to remember that too.
A most excellent comparison !
It's really not difficult to draw parallels between the "music industry" of the 70's and the "MMO gaming industry" of today.
In fact, most of the groups signed-up by the early "indie" record labels were just as rough and technically inept as the indie sandbox MMO attempts we see around today. But it was their energy and new approach that attracted the crowds, and quite large crowds in some cases. And, against all odds, a few of those groups did become international icons.
Why would this even bother anybody? Honestly you are upset because a MOD that has a lot of features many mmo fans want in a MMO got its own forum on mmorpg.com? Wait what? If anything is "ridiculas" its this thread that you started.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Its here because it generates site visits. It'll likely still be listed on FPSGuru because it'll generate site visits.
Its as much an MMO as Team Fortress 2 off of a map rotation. Try adding that and watch the shit storm ensue. There is no rhyme or reason to what is added to this site outside its potential to bring more visits.
I could honestly care less that it's here, but to try justifying the reasons behind it is silly. You can pigeonhole any game into being an MMO or a Non-MMO with enough creativity and spite.
Its here because it generates site visits. It'll likely still be listed on FPSGuru because it'll generate site visits.
Its as much an MMO as Team Fortress 2 off of a map rotation. Try adding that and watch the shit storm ensue. There is no rhyme or reason to what is added to this site outside its potential to bring more visits.
I could honestly care less that it's here, but to try justifying the reasons behind it is silly. You can pigeonhole any game into being an MMO or a Non-MMO with enough creativity and spite.
The site has 1,598,418 members, and only after 120 polling people you added it? More over, i'm beginning to think this site lacks integrity..I mean you have a sister site for such games as these? why not post it there?
Originally posted by Deathenger
Originally posted by AliceKayeI'm with Niith. I voted no. Reason being? What the heck does it have to do with MMORPG.com's theme of MMO's? Been wondering the same about Diablo 3. If I wanted to go to a general gaming site, this wouldn't be the one I went to. I come here because it's about MMO's. Just my two cents.
Because its MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER, which is the key here. Not only that but the vote was a landslide.
I think we really need to start thinking about the definitions of massive. Servers that can hold 100~ people are not massive in my book.
Expansive open world yes. Massively Multiplayer? No.
Hey it looks like an awesome mode, I thought about picking it up the other day. But i just don't think it should be here.
Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 don't belong here as well according to your definition.....but they are still here...
Maybe mmorpg.com should post their definition of the "mmorpg"?
By everyones defintion torchlight 2 and diablo 3 dont belong here. They arent MMOs let alone MMORPG. Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 other people, that counts as a MMORPG? Why isnt left for dead on this site as well, maybe gears of war? Resideent evil raccoon city? I mean i guess playing with one other person suddenly counts as MMORPG now right?
I personally dont care if it goes or stays, just pointing out that its not an mmo.
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I really don't see the TF2 comparison, which is why I had to ask.
For me and in my opinion, DayZ belongs on MMORPG.com because it provides a better MMO experience than any number of recent "official" MMOs. It's more immersive, offers options for all of the Bartle player types (a big deal for me as an Explorer first and Achiever last, the total opposite of what most post-WoW MMOs cater for with their tiny worlds and Skinner Box gameplay) and it feels a lot more like pre-WoW MMOs than anything that has come since. I wrote a post on this thread a few days ago that gives more reasons so I won't repeat myself here.
I think DayZ does a great job of deconstucting (to use a poncy word) the MMORPG and shows what is possible in these games. From what I've read of Rocket's plans for the game it sounds like it's going to be moving even further into recognisable MMORPG territory with an advancement system (which won't work like it does in either traditional MMORPGs or nominally progression-based FPS games), crafting and more mechanics to encourage teamwork. It's a work in progress and everything he wants to do with it is experimental and is meant to show the gaming industry what can work if you set aside the tired old conventions that games of all genres have fallen into.
One other thing, I've always been slightly disappointed by computer RPGs because so very, very few capture the spirit of old-school P&P RPGs and instead simulate their form. The stats and systems in P&P games were a necessary evil, after all it was up to the players to run their world simulations, but all that stuff is done by the computer now and could (and should, IMO) be invisible to the player. Even in its current, early form, DayZ is showing MMORPGs how it could be done and that there is an audience for such gameplay.
Finally, I think all jaded, burnt-out, cynical and disappointed MMORPG gamers should keep an eye on DayZ, because already it is offering many of us hope for the future of the genre.
DayZ is more massive multiplayer than Diablo 3 and SWTOR. I don't get what people's problems are. Hell, there are more people. A SWTOR server probably has about the same number of people on it as a Day Z server. And D3 is a single player game with limited co-op.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
To be honest, I could never determine if this game belongs in the list here or not, so I'll use this post to try to shed some light for myself and others. It's certainly massively multiplayer online, I don't think anyone can argue that, but can the definition of massively include the size or scope of a virtual world? If not, what number of players is truly required to make a game massive? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? DayZ can certainly house a one hundred player server, though the majority of them are capped at fifty, and the size of its geography is massive in a literal sense of the word (225 kilometers squared, larger than the world of Skyrim for comparison). There's really no denying that it's a multiplayer game, or that it's being played online, so if this site were to cover all games considered "MMO", I believe someone could make a case for it to being content appropriate.
If we're taking the name of the web page and the community literally, in that it is supposed to be a place that only discusses or releases information regarding RPG's in the MMO medium, things would probably get a bit more tricky, especially now that we've seen so many variants and sub-genre's within massively multiplayer. Is DayZ an RPG? Probably. What is the most common feature of an RPG? Character development. DayZ definitely has character development, though it is entirely based upon the loot you acquire during your stay in Chernarus, and aren't many other popular MMORPG's entirely based upon character loot to provide new abilities, skills, or attributes? It may not be a third person RPG, and it may not even be very traditional for the role playing genre itself, but if you were to look at the servers listing for DayZ, I think you'd be surprised to find a large collection of role players actually experiencing the mod without ever leaving character. To me, that says it's an RPG.
So, all things considered, it may not be a very traditional version of a massively environment when you consider the populous quantity of a server, but it's definitely a multiplayer online game with gear that effects and advances persistent characters.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Its not even a game. its a mod. This is getting ridiculas.
If your issue is solely based on the fact that it is a mod, not a stand-alone game...then i have to ask - who cares? Like seriously what difference does it make? Its still a game, the fact that its not stand-alone is completely irrelevant. Counter-strike is a mod for Half-life, but you'd be damn sure to see it on a website dedicated to First Person Shooters wouldnt you?
If, however, your problem is that it doesnt classify as an MMO... then id honestly still have to ask - why? What makes it not an MMO? It has a persistent world and is 'massively multiplayer' and most definitely 'online'.
It belongs on this site, imho, and the majority of voters in the poll wanted it here too (and for good reason). Also i'm sorry but i have to... 'ridiculas'?? really?
I really don't see the TF2 comparison, which is why I had to ask.
TF2 is massively multiplayer (per the given definition in this thread), has crafting, can be played on a 'persistent' (as per the given definition in this thread) map, can be as immersive as any other FPS, and is equitable in most ways to DayZ.
As I said, I play and love the game, this isn't the ranting of a bitter MMO player or a 'DayZ is popular so lemme get up in that hate machine' post. My sole intention was to point out that, in my opinion, people are making it to be more than it is and that it doesn't belong in an MMORPG genre.
If the recipe for MMO is that its A) Persistant, Multiplayer, C) Immersive, D) can be roleplayed in...then lets stick to it and open the floodgates.
What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes? As I said, you can make a static map in any given FPS with a few console commands.
I think the largest servers I saw were 50ish people. Battlefield supports 64 I think? Does it qualify?
Again with battlefield, I can speak like an angry marine and roleplay myself as an engineer...I find the game to be very immersive as well, I can lose hours playing a single battle...does that put it in the running for MMORPG?
I just don't see the difference. But yea, its here, so whatever. Lets get back to talking about how Guild Wars isn't a real MMORPG.
Comments
Like so many others, I'm trying to figure out why the OP even cares. I wonder how he thinks he speaks for all of us, especially those of us who have been on this site years longer than he has. How about you go read about the games you are interested in, and don't worry about everyone else.
Hell, at any given time, there are maybe five games I care about on this site. The rest are just background noise. Go look at the game list and ask yourself how many of those games even register on your radar, and how many of them barely qualify as an MMORPG. Most mainstream themeparks games are MMOG's without the RPG aspect. Day Z is much closer in spirit and execution to what a truly online role playing game should be like than WoW, Rift, Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, TSW, etc in my mind. Some of those are good games, but they aren't really Role Playing Games. They are linear themeparks that stuff a story down your throat, where Day Z reminds people that it is fun to make and tell your own stories with virtual world games.
Also this is a website where enthusiasts spend a lot of time talking about game mechanics and design, as well as the busisness and politics of the gaming sector. Day Z is a very important development in gaming, and it has the potential to have a lot of impact on current and future MMO games.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'd also like to add that it really is the persistant world database that was added that changes this game more towards being an MMO. The fact is, in modern MMO's you are only playing with 50-100 people in a given area anyway. It doesn't matter if 20,000 people are connected to your server if you can't see them.
In Day Z, you cn create a character, fight for survival, log off and then log on to any other Day Z server and continue your adventure with tens of thousands of other people who are enjoying Day Z. Sometimes you will see people you have played with before, and very often you will see new people. To me, the different mod servers act a bit like instanced zones of a larger game community. The persistant database makes it possible.
You may not like how it works, and you may not like that it is an FPS mod, but who are you to decide that it's not an MMORPG game based on some arbitrary feature list you have in your head? Who are you to decide what arrangement of software and hardware qualifies an an MMO? As I said before, visit the MMORPG.com game list and start compiling features of all those obscure games, then come back and tell me Day Z doesn't qualify.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
This single feature is what makes DayZ stand out from any other ArmA 2 mod and makes it more MMO like than any other mod. Also the need for food and drink as well as the need for medical care if you get injured(Some cures you have to get someone elses help). The harsh reality of permadeath also makes this unique among ArmA 2 mods when you consider the persistance of your character and the fact that you don't spawn with much of a kit... that is something you need to build through surviving the very harsh environment. Saying this is "Just another ArmA 2 mod" is just asinine to say the least. Nothing even close to this mod has been made for this game in the 2 years I've been playing it. DayZ stands alone.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
The harsh reality of permadeath? The only thing you can improve on your character is gear and humanity, which is absolutely useless at the moment. The same could be said for nearly anyother mode of ArmA where if you die you need to go grab all of your gear back. A food and drink system have been used in other ArmA mods, the City Life ones most notably, all be it in a less refined form, and a medic system is included into the base game, although again, in a somewhat lesser form (DayZ's system can be downright stupid in certain places).
So with all those things considered the only unique advantage DayZ has is a persistant player database amongst its servers which is just about the norm for pretty much every online game thats come out in the last decade, from Diablo to Company of Heroes, to Battlefield. That hardly makes any of them MMOs.
At no point did I say it was "just another ArmA 2 mod" so I can see how you are confused on the facts as apparently you hallucinate words on your screen, because it is not, it is one of the most interesting mods I think I have ever seen for the series since I first played OFP. I love the ArmA series and I think DayZ is an awesome mod, however it is not an MMO and just because peoples emotional responses are that it is does not make it logically right.
I'm with MikeB on this one. I don't understand why everyone is up in a bunch about the addition of this and other games. I think it's great the mods here add games/mods that could be of interest to MMO gamers.
Look, I know all of those things are either in other mods or in the base game. Like I said I've been playing it for well over 2 years now. My point was that with the persistent character across all servers it makes them all a whole lot more meaningful in DayZ. You don't just pick a rifleman and respawn with the entire rifleman kit every time. You respawn with basically next to nothing and you have to find all of that stuff all over again. This is what makes the permadeath in DayZ a lot more harsh than in most ArmA 2 mods. No, you never said DayZ was just another ArmA 2 mod but the entire tone of your original post implied it.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Look, we are all one community here of game players...some of us come from the days of Gary Gygax PNP rpgs, others from the early days of Pool of Radiance, some from the dawn of the modern MMO (UO, Everquest), some from the Wow boom, and others who are just new to MMOs in general, so there is a wide range of history and intersts, and what defines a mmo to each and everyone...
But MMORPG.com is a site that caters to our interests in this genre, not only what we play, but also, and this is the big point what we considered the direction of the genre as a whole...
Whether we want to argue the semantical obsession of what is an MMO or what defines an RPG, or even game vs. mod, the point is we are here to encourage and find other games that peek the general interest of players...
So why shoudl DayZ be on here?
Because in the last few weeks, this little mod has offered more fun and features that a majority of this community have screamed about for a long time....that no major relaese in the last couple years has had such a wild round of acceptance and in such a short time...
By embracing DayZ and its little mod that could philosphy, we are sending a message to the industry that we are tired of the crap coming out of the traditonal defined MMO/RPG and want and desire something different, fresh and exciting...
I hate FPS and will never play Arma 2, nor any of the COD, Battlefield games, but I love DayZ, not for shooting mofos, but for the intense immersive feeling and the desire to survive...I have never been more attached to my character in any MMO than I have recently to a hunter I made that lasted over 2 days...each minute I played after that became a crucial life or death decision, moments of fight or flee, risk vs reward, the importance of patience over spped, pulled me in deeper than any game out there...
I was roleplaying organically and that does not come from running around starbases trying to get from planet to planet where there are no threats or dangers...
I have been more bored and disappointed by almost all MMOS and single player RPGs in the lsat couple of years than I am in this little mod....
We as a community have a desire to talk about DayZ, whether good or bad, in a way and in popularity, that most MMOS dont even get talked about in months of forum discussion on this site (like Alganon or DCU) and the fact that DayZ had had over 50,000 players playing concurrently in one day and people are fighting to get on servers is tale that some games really need to learn...
I found this game from this forum and would have never discovered it otherwise...
So DayZ stays and other games need to ask themselves what they can learn from the success of this mod..
Besides wasn't this whole MOBA push come from a mod, too?
I don't really understand the hatred towards adding this to the site. As others have said it has features that mmo's of the past had and those of late have forgotten about. If anything it's a nice lump of features that i've been missing for a while. And i'm extremely glad this website began posting about it because this is where I first heard of it and i'll be purchasing either tonight or tomorrow (not sure if I want my first playthrough to be during the night haha).
Agreed, the more crap like this they post on this site it's getting harder and harder to spot the actual real mmorpg's on this site, without some research involved. I wish they had separate news/forum feeds, one for real mmorpgs and then another for basic multiplayer games (or mods) because this site is getting more and more just another standard gaming site with misleading site name.
As much as I agree with the majority of what is being said, in defense of DayZ, it's more mmorpg then it appears from first glance.. However it dosent fit into the mmo tag perfectly, but if you actually play the game, you will indeed, understand that it has every right to be on this site. I'm thankful it DID pop up, as I'm tired of the same ol crap that is being produced and flooded onto this site. Clone after stinking clone, massive AAA "flop" products, its a breathe of fresh air to the genre. Not everyone is going to agree with me on this point, thats ok. But we can ALL agree, that the mmorpg genre itself, has been dissappointing in the last numerous releases. So take a chance, give DayZ a shot at the mmorpg title, then you will see it has what it takes to be called "mmorpg"
"Look at me when I'm hitting you!"
Honestly i have nothing against this game, or many of the other games on this site.
I just have an issue wading through 50 inactive old game, 100 non mmorpg, and locating mmorpgs (client based) something this site use to be king of.
Now its a cesspool of anything online.
I think spending a week sorthing this sites games, keeping the client based mmorpgs (active games made in the last decade) on the main list, then sorting the legacy games, inactive games, browser games, DOTA games, arcade online RPGs (D3/TL/POE) FPS games and games that have been in development or beta for longer than one year into their own respective links.
It would make browsing this site easier, would enforce the URL title of this site, would make finding all the offshoots and other type of games easier for those who do like them.
i mean...FFS...if this site spent a third of the effort they spend on forum-stalinism, and devoted that to keeping the list tidy and sorted...this site would be phenominal, like it use to be.
Im not the only one who finds this site a sloppy mess of anything online and game related and i feel i miss a lot of good games on the site because they get drowned out with the mmo-spam thats happend here in the last two years...and its only getting worse.
Im getting to the point where i might as well just make my own damn site since this one has lost any form of direction or managment other than banning forum users.
The MMO genre is evolving and will continue to do so in the future. Any site that restricts it's coverage to games that only fit the "classic" definition of MMORPG's (e.g. EQ, WOW, etc.) will see it's userbase shrink and dissappear over time.
This game is played in an online persistant world and it allows the players to roleplay, and that is the essence of MMORPG's.
For me DayZ represents the potential that early MMOs held for the future much more than just about any modern MMO. Where modern MMOs have become over-designed, bloated and abstracted beyond any reasonable definition of the word "simulation" (which is what P&P RPGs aimed to be), DayZ gives you a world, a set of mechanics and leaves you to it. It is refreshing and liberating to discover how little you need to find yourself immersed in a persistent, virtual world after being shackled to increasingly gamey systems for so long.
The ideas and design philosophy behind DayZ have a lot that MMORPGs could learn from, and its popularity proves that what it's trying to do has legs. It's gained 150,000 players in a couple of months with no advertising budget and no big-name developers behind it, purely because it has captured the imaginations of frustrated gamers across the world.
The fact that it's a third-party mod for a non-MMO is irrelevent. In fact, its experimental nature and the innovation it brings is absolutely impossible in the high-cost, high-risk environment of the traditional MMO space. DayZ is to MMOs what the Sex Pistols were to the stagnant, overly safe music industry of the 1970s. And yeah, I'm old enough to remember that too.
A most excellent comparison !
It's really not difficult to draw parallels between the "music industry" of the 70's and the "MMO gaming industry" of today.
In fact, most of the groups signed-up by the early "indie" record labels were just as rough and technically inept as the indie sandbox MMO attempts we see around today. But it was their energy and new approach that attracted the crowds, and quite large crowds in some cases. And, against all odds, a few of those groups did become international icons.
Are the DayZ files you need to edit it available to download? I have some ideas of how to make it even better.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Why would this even bother anybody? Honestly you are upset because a MOD that has a lot of features many mmo fans want in a MMO got its own forum on mmorpg.com? Wait what? If anything is "ridiculas" its this thread that you started.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Its here because it generates site visits. It'll likely still be listed on FPSGuru because it'll generate site visits.
Its as much an MMO as Team Fortress 2 off of a map rotation. Try adding that and watch the shit storm ensue. There is no rhyme or reason to what is added to this site outside its potential to bring more visits.
I could honestly care less that it's here, but to try justifying the reasons behind it is silly. You can pigeonhole any game into being an MMO or a Non-MMO with enough creativity and spite.
Have you actually played DayZ?
Yes. I really like it. My argument stands.
By everyones defintion torchlight 2 and diablo 3 dont belong here. They arent MMOs let alone MMORPG. Diablo 3 you can only play with 3 other people, that counts as a MMORPG? Why isnt left for dead on this site as well, maybe gears of war? Resideent evil raccoon city? I mean i guess playing with one other person suddenly counts as MMORPG now right?
I personally dont care if it goes or stays, just pointing out that its not an mmo.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I really don't see the TF2 comparison, which is why I had to ask.
For me and in my opinion, DayZ belongs on MMORPG.com because it provides a better MMO experience than any number of recent "official" MMOs. It's more immersive, offers options for all of the Bartle player types (a big deal for me as an Explorer first and Achiever last, the total opposite of what most post-WoW MMOs cater for with their tiny worlds and Skinner Box gameplay) and it feels a lot more like pre-WoW MMOs than anything that has come since. I wrote a post on this thread a few days ago that gives more reasons so I won't repeat myself here.
I think DayZ does a great job of deconstucting (to use a poncy word) the MMORPG and shows what is possible in these games. From what I've read of Rocket's plans for the game it sounds like it's going to be moving even further into recognisable MMORPG territory with an advancement system (which won't work like it does in either traditional MMORPGs or nominally progression-based FPS games), crafting and more mechanics to encourage teamwork. It's a work in progress and everything he wants to do with it is experimental and is meant to show the gaming industry what can work if you set aside the tired old conventions that games of all genres have fallen into.
One other thing, I've always been slightly disappointed by computer RPGs because so very, very few capture the spirit of old-school P&P RPGs and instead simulate their form. The stats and systems in P&P games were a necessary evil, after all it was up to the players to run their world simulations, but all that stuff is done by the computer now and could (and should, IMO) be invisible to the player. Even in its current, early form, DayZ is showing MMORPGs how it could be done and that there is an audience for such gameplay.
Finally, I think all jaded, burnt-out, cynical and disappointed MMORPG gamers should keep an eye on DayZ, because already it is offering many of us hope for the future of the genre.
As I said, I don't see the TF2 comparison at all.
DayZ is more massive multiplayer than Diablo 3 and SWTOR. I don't get what people's problems are. Hell, there are more people. A SWTOR server probably has about the same number of people on it as a Day Z server. And D3 is a single player game with limited co-op.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
To be honest, I could never determine if this game belongs in the list here or not, so I'll use this post to try to shed some light for myself and others. It's certainly massively multiplayer online, I don't think anyone can argue that, but can the definition of massively include the size or scope of a virtual world? If not, what number of players is truly required to make a game massive? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? DayZ can certainly house a one hundred player server, though the majority of them are capped at fifty, and the size of its geography is massive in a literal sense of the word (225 kilometers squared, larger than the world of Skyrim for comparison). There's really no denying that it's a multiplayer game, or that it's being played online, so if this site were to cover all games considered "MMO", I believe someone could make a case for it to being content appropriate.
If we're taking the name of the web page and the community literally, in that it is supposed to be a place that only discusses or releases information regarding RPG's in the MMO medium, things would probably get a bit more tricky, especially now that we've seen so many variants and sub-genre's within massively multiplayer. Is DayZ an RPG? Probably. What is the most common feature of an RPG? Character development. DayZ definitely has character development, though it is entirely based upon the loot you acquire during your stay in Chernarus, and aren't many other popular MMORPG's entirely based upon character loot to provide new abilities, skills, or attributes? It may not be a third person RPG, and it may not even be very traditional for the role playing genre itself, but if you were to look at the servers listing for DayZ, I think you'd be surprised to find a large collection of role players actually experiencing the mod without ever leaving character. To me, that says it's an RPG.
So, all things considered, it may not be a very traditional version of a massively environment when you consider the populous quantity of a server, but it's definitely a multiplayer online game with gear that effects and advances persistent characters.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
If your issue is solely based on the fact that it is a mod, not a stand-alone game...then i have to ask - who cares? Like seriously what difference does it make? Its still a game, the fact that its not stand-alone is completely irrelevant. Counter-strike is a mod for Half-life, but you'd be damn sure to see it on a website dedicated to First Person Shooters wouldnt you?
If, however, your problem is that it doesnt classify as an MMO... then id honestly still have to ask - why? What makes it not an MMO? It has a persistent world and is 'massively multiplayer' and most definitely 'online'.
It belongs on this site, imho, and the majority of voters in the poll wanted it here too (and for good reason). Also i'm sorry but i have to... 'ridiculas'?? really?
TF2 is massively multiplayer (per the given definition in this thread), has crafting, can be played on a 'persistent' (as per the given definition in this thread) map, can be as immersive as any other FPS, and is equitable in most ways to DayZ.
As I said, I play and love the game, this isn't the ranting of a bitter MMO player or a 'DayZ is popular so lemme get up in that hate machine' post. My sole intention was to point out that, in my opinion, people are making it to be more than it is and that it doesn't belong in an MMORPG genre.
If the recipe for MMO is that its A) Persistant,
Multiplayer, C) Immersive, D) can be roleplayed in...then lets stick to it and open the floodgates.
What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes? As I said, you can make a static map in any given FPS with a few console commands.
I think the largest servers I saw were 50ish people. Battlefield supports 64 I think? Does it qualify?
Again with battlefield, I can speak like an angry marine and roleplay myself as an engineer...I find the game to be very immersive as well, I can lose hours playing a single battle...does that put it in the running for MMORPG?
I just don't see the difference. But yea, its here, so whatever. Lets get back to talking about how Guild Wars isn't a real MMORPG.