I have only heard 2/3rd, but none of the 4 people really admits that some serious stuff in the very basics of the game design just went wrong. Without us agreeing about that, nothing will change.
I like the host. He usually thinks about games as I do, and in this quattro he is the only skeptical guy, which is just appropriate to SWTOR.
I totally agree,. All four of those talking heads have personal and professional relationships with BW/EA and the game. They have cosy interviews with the developers, they get invited down for all expense paid trips to try new builds, they return laden with goodie bags. They have been shilling for the game from the get-go. And now, when the fundamental flaws that many of us warned about from the start have led to massive subscriber losses, they still cannot admit the foundations of the game are weak - because they don't want to lose their juice with the developers. it's ridiculous.
As I've said before, there surely must be some middle ground to be had between themeparks, and the more open world emergent-gaming MMOs. There are many problems with a game like TOR, and one of them is that content is finite, and that's a tough thing to keep up with. Give the players some areas and tools to do their own thing. It's ok to mix the two styles.
Exactly what ArcheAge is showing us.
In my sig is another hybrid.
Slowly but surely we're breaking that damn cast of WoW.
The hate towards this game is hilarious. Its getting close to the amount of hate WoW generates. If thats not success, I dont know what is. LOL
It's anger, not hate. Hate is baseless and blind, anger is based on reasons, and I can name a ton of reasons, which in fact I already did plenty of times on the case of SWTOR, as many others as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The hate towards this game is hilarious. Its getting close to the amount of hate WoW generates. If thats not success, I dont know what is. LOL
It's anger, not hate. Hate is baseless and blind, anger is based on reasons, and I can name a ton of reasons, which in fact I already did plenty of times on the case of SWTOR, as many others as well.
Hmm. Anger can transform into hate when it becomes vicious, insidious and constant. Just like in relationships and so many other things of life.
you can call it whatever you want, its still hilarious to me.
No more hilarious than your vain attempt to equate SWTOR to WoW just because players hate it.
I know, im going to go into the Tera forums and say the game must be a success of massive proportions because some people are disliking the game.
Better yet, ill do it in the LoTRo forums...cause we all know its such a success they went F2P because they were making too much money and felt they didnt need subs anymore...after-all, people hate that game just like people hate WoW!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The hate towards this game is hilarious. Its getting close to the amount of hate WoW generates. If thats not success, I dont know what is. LOL
It's anger, not hate. Hate is baseless and blind, anger is based on reasons, and I can name a ton of reasons, which in fact I already did plenty of times on the case of SWTOR, as many others as well.
Hmm. Anger can transform into hate when it becomes vicious, insidious and constant. Just like in relationships and so many other things of life.
You do not listen.
This isn't about words. It is that we have reasons to be frustrated and name our reason. It's isn't some baseless, childish rant. You may not share our reasons, but outright denying we HAVE reasons is absurd and rude. Just respect that.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The hate towards this game is hilarious. Its getting close to the amount of hate WoW generates. If thats not success, I dont know what is. LOL
It's anger, not hate. Hate is baseless and blind, anger is based on reasons, and I can name a ton of reasons, which in fact I already did plenty of times on the case of SWTOR, as many others as well.
Hmm. Anger can transform into hate when it becomes vicious, insidious and constant. Just like in relationships and so many other things of life.
You do not listen.
This isn't about words. It is that we have reasons to be frustrated and name our reason. It's isn't some baseless, childish rant. You may not share our reasons, but outright denying we HAVE reasons is absurd and rude. Just respect that.
I listen very well, and can also read between lines. First, you're using a blanket statement, saying 'we' as if you speak for all people who're bashing or attacking or trolling the game. Second, you auto-assume that everyone has exactly the same tastes/reasons/whatever for being angry with the game. Third, you make it sound as if all critics/bashers/whatever are all some noble, righteously indignant creatures where the reality of forumposts - not just here - often shows a far baser and pettier underbelly.
You may have your reasons, but at least respect the simple truth that not everyone has the same reasons you have, and that there are enough people that trash, bash or hate on games bc they're simply bored, don't like the game's company or its policy or despise a certain genre of games (themepark/WoW clone, Asian grinders, etc). Those are reasons as well, if you want to talk about respect, then start with acknowledging other motives besides your own for other people as well
This isn't my discussion, this isn't even my game. I feel it a waste of time to talk about obvious stuff like this, so I'm out of this discussion. Have fun.
you can call it whatever you want, its still hilarious to me.
No more hilarious than your vain attempt to equate SWTOR to WoW just because players hate it.
I know, im going to go into the Tera forums and say the game must be a success of massive proportions because some people are disliking the game.
Better yet, ill do it in the LoTRo forums...cause we all know its such a success they went F2P because they were making too much money and felt they didnt need subs anymore...after-all, people hate that game just like people hate WoW!
I can honestly say SWTOR met my expectation's, which honestly were rather low. I expected a Kotor based game mixed with a wow esqe style game, no problem's imho i got what i expected. My biggest problem beside's crap to do when you hit 50, Is how linear the game is. Leveling is the same for each class on each side except for your class quest's. With a galaxy with so many planet's why am i stuck having too play on planet X to level from 15 to 25? For the 4 month's i played, i think i got my money out of it. But it's biggest problem imho is it's set up too be more a single player game. Just my 2 cent's.
you can call it whatever you want, its still hilarious to me.
No more hilarious than your vain attempt to equate SWTOR to WoW just because players hate it.
I know, im going to go into the Tera forums and say the game must be a success of massive proportions because some people are disliking the game.
Better yet, ill do it in the LoTRo forums...cause we all know its such a success they went F2P because they were making too much money and felt they didnt need subs anymore...after-all, people hate that game just like people hate WoW!
Dude, you are serious.
Serious like a butthurt fanboy trying to defend his love on a gaming forum!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
19:51 Ed: The amount of effort that BioWare expended in the 1-49 experience, which almost everyone would say it was tons of fun. The problem is they spent so much time there, that they didn't spend enough time in endgame. There was not enough endgame content. Because they spent so much time from 1-49, this is probably why they were pushed out the door before they were ready because so much money was going into the vertical game. BioWare might have thought optimistically that the 4th pillar story was sufficient to hold people in the long term. There is not enough stuff at endgame as I would need to stay here indefinitely; this is the feedback I got.
I have a problem with this statement. One character to level cap was fun, not incredible, but worth the initial box fee. Playing alts however...this "effort" he claims they put so much into....where is it? Look at a game like WoW at it's launch and how much it had content wise from level 1-60. I literally played one race through to cap and hadn't seen 50% of the leveling content in the game. I didn't see most if not all of it until my 3rd to 4th character on that leveling journey. This was due to variety in zones, quests and leveling paths. SWTOR doesn't even have 2 leveling paths for one faction. It has 1. That's it. It's horrible.
These guys spent far too much time on cutscene after cutscene, trying to drive home the story aspect, not realizing they had TOO much story. One story per class is fine and awesome. Doing a cutscene for every single sidequest in the game....not so smart. They could have easily just made the class quests and planet quests fully voiced over cutscene quests and spent the rest of their time on MMO game mechanics and made the game ten times more fun, immersive and addictive. It lacks all 3.
19:51 Ed: The amount of effort that BioWare expended in the 1-49 experience, which almost everyone would say it was tons of fun. The problem is they spent so much time there, that they didn't spend enough time in endgame. There was not enough endgame content. Because they spent so much time from 1-49, this is probably why they were pushed out the door before they were ready because so much money was going into the vertical game. BioWare might have thought optimistically that the 4th pillar story was sufficient to hold people in the long term. There is not enough stuff at endgame as I would need to stay here indefinitely; this is the feedback I got.
I have a problem with this statement. One character to level cap was fun, not incredible, but worth the initial box fee. Playing alts however...this "effort" he claims they put so much into....where is it? Look at a game like WoW at it's launch and how much it had content wise from level 1-60. I literally played one race through to cap and hadn't seen 50% of the leveling content in the game. I didn't see most if not all of it until my 3rd to 4th character on that leveling journey. This was due to variety in zones, quests and leveling paths. SWTOR doesn't even have 2 leveling paths for one faction. It has 1. That's it. It's horrible.
These guys spent far too much time on cutscene after cutscene, trying to drive home the story aspect, not realizing they had TOO much story. One story per class is fine and awesome. Doing a cutscene for every single sidequest in the game....not so smart. They could have easily just made the class quests and planet quests fully voiced over cutscene quests and spent the rest of their time on MMO game mechanics and made the game ten times more fun, immersive and addictive. It lacks all 3.
You may want to re-read that quote because they are not saying 1-49 was fun for multi-characters...but they also didnt point it out that the fun factor drops massively when you play an alt because there was no actual depth to the side quests that went with that first storyline.
BTW I completely agree with the last part, being screaming it since a few months before release. the game lacks in too much of everything outside of story, including game fundamentals.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
you can call it whatever you want, its still hilarious to me.
No more hilarious than your vain attempt to equate SWTOR to WoW just because players hate it.
I know, im going to go into the Tera forums and say the game must be a success of massive proportions because some people are disliking the game.
Better yet, ill do it in the LoTRo forums...cause we all know its such a success they went F2P because they were making too much money and felt they didnt need subs anymore...after-all, people hate that game just like people hate WoW!
Dude, you are serious.
Serious like a butthurt fanboy trying to defend his love on a gaming forum!
I can't believe I watched that entire thing. The darthhater guy was kind of useless until the end as he seems to have social relationships with many people at BW and doesn't want to rustle any feathers or hurt anyones feelings.
I think it's terrible how many people are losing their jobs. But I think this is all EAs way of saying "screw you" Lucas Arts. I'm pretty sure EA is guaranteed their develpment costs back before LA gets any money. EA doesn't see it ever being a big hit and would rather put money elsewhere. It's terrible for SWTOR fans, but gutting the team will does not bode well.
It is rather strange that they laid off their community manager. They must figure someone else can do the same job and cheaper. Which is why I'd never work for EA.
19:51 Ed: The amount of effort that BioWare expended in the 1-49 experience, which almost everyone would say it was tons of fun. The problem is they spent so much time there, that they didn't spend enough time in endgame. There was not enough endgame content. Because they spent so much time from 1-49, this is probably why they were pushed out the door before they were ready because so much money was going into the vertical game. BioWare might have thought optimistically that the 4th pillar story was sufficient to hold people in the long term. There is not enough stuff at endgame as I would need to stay here indefinitely; this is the feedback I got.
I have a problem with this statement. One character to level cap was fun, not incredible, but worth the initial box fee. Playing alts however...this "effort" he claims they put so much into....where is it? Look at a game like WoW at it's launch and how much it had content wise from level 1-60. I literally played one race through to cap and hadn't seen 50% of the leveling content in the game. I didn't see most if not all of it until my 3rd to 4th character on that leveling journey. This was due to variety in zones, quests and leveling paths. SWTOR doesn't even have 2 leveling paths for one faction. It has 1. That's it. It's horrible.
These guys spent far too much time on cutscene after cutscene, trying to drive home the story aspect, not realizing they had TOO much story. One story per class is fine and awesome. Doing a cutscene for every single sidequest in the game....not so smart. They could have easily just made the class quests and planet quests fully voiced over cutscene quests and spent the rest of their time on MMO game mechanics and made the game ten times more fun, immersive and addictive. It lacks all 3.
Absolutely agree. They totally wasted a lot of money on cutscenes for EVERYTHING. Making people repeat 85% or so of quests on EVERY alt of the same faction was a horrendous design decision.
19:51 Ed: The amount of effort that BioWare expended in the 1-49 experience, which almost everyone would say it was tons of fun. The problem is they spent so much time there, that they didn't spend enough time in endgame. There was not enough endgame content. Because they spent so much time from 1-49, this is probably why they were pushed out the door before they were ready because so much money was going into the vertical game. BioWare might have thought optimistically that the 4th pillar story was sufficient to hold people in the long term. There is not enough stuff at endgame as I would need to stay here indefinitely; this is the feedback I got.
I have a problem with this statement. One character to level cap was fun, not incredible, but worth the initial box fee. Playing alts however...this "effort" he claims they put so much into....where is it? Look at a game like WoW at it's launch and how much it had content wise from level 1-60. I literally played one race through to cap and hadn't seen 50% of the leveling content in the game. I didn't see most if not all of it until my 3rd to 4th character on that leveling journey. This was due to variety in zones, quests and leveling paths. SWTOR doesn't even have 2 leveling paths for one faction. It has 1. That's it. It's horrible.
These guys spent far too much time on cutscene after cutscene, trying to drive home the story aspect, not realizing they had TOO much story. One story per class is fine and awesome. Doing a cutscene for every single sidequest in the game....not so smart. They could have easily just made the class quests and planet quests fully voiced over cutscene quests and spent the rest of their time on MMO game mechanics and made the game ten times more fun, immersive and addictive. It lacks all 3.
excellent analysis. I thought Ed was pretty accurate but you were more accurate.
p.s. your picture creeps me out though. Like you're looking at me no matter where I walk.
They need to have some with great common sense come in and redirect the entire development teams goals.
Fix all errors that are reported first!
fix the graphical problems with sith pure bloods not being able to wear gear and have it show on them. same with twileks and others.
Get PVP seperated from the PVE community get them a server with arena and rated whatever leave it optional for PVE players
Take all the planets you have remove the exhaustion zones add camp kits that give bonuses add fishing
Add day and night cycles
make cantinas give a buff for you if you sit in them 10m
add a social class that can buff or entertain
reduce the cost of legacy perks fast.
make it so the ship can be decorated.
get a real space game added with space PVP
let smugglers smuggle for empire or republic
let bounty hunters hunt players repub or emp
create a neutral class based based on darkside lightside for each faction.
make crafting gear/items equal with endgame gear.rtemove the gem vendors kills artifice crafters.
add a barber shop of some type, and this should be first...allow players to change advanced class damit!!!
add more alien looking races!. as it stand's everyone is a human with some facial feature that attempts to make them look alien.
get same sex romances in. how would you like it they made the romances all for gay people and never hetro ones. now flip it and you know how gay people feel about it.
Take the planets of the linear themepark rail and allow true exploration.
make guilds worth it allow guilds to create guild quest for their members.add guild captial ships.
remove all boundry that sperate republic and empire. allow all planets to be visted by both factions even if your gonna get killed doing so.
stop making me drive a taxi and I still have to pay a fee to use it.
stop instacing everything. make class storys have more emotion when the time comes. right now they're like amway guys all polite and never show emotions. i wanna see kira cry when I kill 30 people for darkside points.
allow comanions to be corrppted bt the darkside or saved by the light.
and for the love of all that is wookie!!! please allow both faction to have acces to each otheres gear instead of this shit were it look one way if you send it to empire then it did republic. thats just some bullshit there!
Comments
I totally agree,. All four of those talking heads have personal and professional relationships with BW/EA and the game. They have cosy interviews with the developers, they get invited down for all expense paid trips to try new builds, they return laden with goodie bags. They have been shilling for the game from the get-go. And now, when the fundamental flaws that many of us warned about from the start have led to massive subscriber losses, they still cannot admit the foundations of the game are weak - because they don't want to lose their juice with the developers. it's ridiculous.
The true injustice is the people who were responsible for making SWTOR into WOW Lite still have their jobs.
-snip-
Double post
In my sig is another hybrid.
Slowly but surely we're breaking that damn cast of WoW.
The hate towards this game is hilarious. Its getting close to the amount of hate WoW generates. If thats not success, I dont know what is. LOL
It's anger, not hate. Hate is baseless and blind, anger is based on reasons, and I can name a ton of reasons, which in fact I already did plenty of times on the case of SWTOR, as many others as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A lot of people might also describe it as disappointment.
you can call it whatever you want, its still hilarious to me.
Hmm. Anger can transform into hate when it becomes vicious, insidious and constant. Just like in relationships and so many other things of life.
No more hilarious than your vain attempt to equate SWTOR to WoW just because players hate it.
I know, im going to go into the Tera forums and say the game must be a success of massive proportions because some people are disliking the game.
Better yet, ill do it in the LoTRo forums...cause we all know its such a success they went F2P because they were making too much money and felt they didnt need subs anymore...after-all, people hate that game just like people hate WoW!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The opposite of hate?
You do not listen.
This isn't about words. It is that we have reasons to be frustrated and name our reason. It's isn't some baseless, childish rant. You may not share our reasons, but outright denying we HAVE reasons is absurd and rude. Just respect that.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I listen very well, and can also read between lines. First, you're using a blanket statement, saying 'we' as if you speak for all people who're bashing or attacking or trolling the game. Second, you auto-assume that everyone has exactly the same tastes/reasons/whatever for being angry with the game. Third, you make it sound as if all critics/bashers/whatever are all some noble, righteously indignant creatures where the reality of forumposts - not just here - often shows a far baser and pettier underbelly.
You may have your reasons, but at least respect the simple truth that not everyone has the same reasons you have, and that there are enough people that trash, bash or hate on games bc they're simply bored, don't like the game's company or its policy or despise a certain genre of games (themepark/WoW clone, Asian grinders, etc). Those are reasons as well, if you want to talk about respect, then start with acknowledging other motives besides your own for other people as well
This isn't my discussion, this isn't even my game. I feel it a waste of time to talk about obvious stuff like this, so I'm out of this discussion. Have fun.
Dude, you are serious.
I can honestly say SWTOR met my expectation's, which honestly were rather low. I expected a Kotor based game mixed with a wow esqe style game, no problem's imho i got what i expected. My biggest problem beside's crap to do when you hit 50, Is how linear the game is. Leveling is the same for each class on each side except for your class quest's. With a galaxy with so many planet's why am i stuck having too play on planet X to level from 15 to 25? For the 4 month's i played, i think i got my money out of it. But it's biggest problem imho is it's set up too be more a single player game. Just my 2 cent's.
Serious like a butthurt fanboy trying to defend his love on a gaming forum!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
19:51
Ed: The amount of effort that BioWare expended in the 1-49 experience, which almost everyone would say it was tons of fun. The problem is they spent so much time there, that they didn't spend enough time in endgame. There was not enough endgame content. Because they spent so much time from 1-49, this is probably why they were pushed out the door before they were ready because so much money was going into the vertical game. BioWare might have thought optimistically that the 4th pillar story was sufficient to hold people in the long term. There is not enough stuff at endgame as I would need to stay here indefinitely; this is the feedback I got.
I have a problem with this statement. One character to level cap was fun, not incredible, but worth the initial box fee. Playing alts however...this "effort" he claims they put so much into....where is it? Look at a game like WoW at it's launch and how much it had content wise from level 1-60. I literally played one race through to cap and hadn't seen 50% of the leveling content in the game. I didn't see most if not all of it until my 3rd to 4th character on that leveling journey. This was due to variety in zones, quests and leveling paths. SWTOR doesn't even have 2 leveling paths for one faction. It has 1. That's it. It's horrible.
These guys spent far too much time on cutscene after cutscene, trying to drive home the story aspect, not realizing they had TOO much story. One story per class is fine and awesome. Doing a cutscene for every single sidequest in the game....not so smart. They could have easily just made the class quests and planet quests fully voiced over cutscene quests and spent the rest of their time on MMO game mechanics and made the game ten times more fun, immersive and addictive. It lacks all 3.
You may want to re-read that quote because they are not saying 1-49 was fun for multi-characters...but they also didnt point it out that the fun factor drops massively when you play an alt because there was no actual depth to the side quests that went with that first storyline.
BTW I completely agree with the last part, being screaming it since a few months before release. the game lacks in too much of everything outside of story, including game fundamentals.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
good for you man!
I can't believe I watched that entire thing. The darthhater guy was kind of useless until the end as he seems to have social relationships with many people at BW and doesn't want to rustle any feathers or hurt anyones feelings.
I think it's terrible how many people are losing their jobs. But I think this is all EAs way of saying "screw you" Lucas Arts. I'm pretty sure EA is guaranteed their develpment costs back before LA gets any money. EA doesn't see it ever being a big hit and would rather put money elsewhere. It's terrible for SWTOR fans, but gutting the team will does not bode well.
It is rather strange that they laid off their community manager. They must figure someone else can do the same job and cheaper. Which is why I'd never work for EA.
Absolutely agree. They totally wasted a lot of money on cutscenes for EVERYTHING. Making people repeat 85% or so of quests on EVERY alt of the same faction was a horrendous design decision.
excellent analysis. I thought Ed was pretty accurate but you were more accurate.
p.s. your picture creeps me out though. Like you're looking at me no matter where I walk.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
That's because ... he is ...
Rofl, that made my morning! I see you....O.O
"Sometimes I feel like, somebody's watching me...."
/sigh, now I have that song in my head. Could be worse, could be "It's a small world after all...."
...
Oh no....now I have THAT one in my head....
This post is a product of my own madness.
They need to have some with great common sense come in and redirect the entire development teams goals.
Fix all errors that are reported first!
fix the graphical problems with sith pure bloods not being able to wear gear and have it show on them. same with twileks and others.
Get PVP seperated from the PVE community get them a server with arena and rated whatever leave it optional for PVE players
Take all the planets you have remove the exhaustion zones add camp kits that give bonuses add fishing
Add day and night cycles
make cantinas give a buff for you if you sit in them 10m
add a social class that can buff or entertain
reduce the cost of legacy perks fast.
make it so the ship can be decorated.
get a real space game added with space PVP
let smugglers smuggle for empire or republic
let bounty hunters hunt players repub or emp
create a neutral class based based on darkside lightside for each faction.
make crafting gear/items equal with endgame gear.rtemove the gem vendors kills artifice crafters.
add a barber shop of some type, and this should be first...allow players to change advanced class damit!!!
add more alien looking races!. as it stand's everyone is a human with some facial feature that attempts to make them look alien.
get same sex romances in. how would you like it they made the romances all for gay people and never hetro ones. now flip it and you know how gay people feel about it.
Take the planets of the linear themepark rail and allow true exploration.
make guilds worth it allow guilds to create guild quest for their members.add guild captial ships.
remove all boundry that sperate republic and empire. allow all planets to be visted by both factions even if your gonna get killed doing so.
stop making me drive a taxi and I still have to pay a fee to use it.
stop instacing everything. make class storys have more emotion when the time comes. right now they're like amway guys all polite and never show emotions. i wanna see kira cry when I kill 30 people for darkside points.
allow comanions to be corrppted bt the darkside or saved by the light.
and for the love of all that is wookie!!! please allow both faction to have acces to each otheres gear instead of this shit were it look one way if you send it to empire then it did republic. thats just some bullshit there!
typos are intended.