So now that you are done belittling everyone and their opinion and taste, do you have any arguments besides your "feeling" and the absence of evidence.
Because the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So if I'm saying that there is no flying spaghetti monster, I need to prove there really isn't one?
The ball is in your court, man. You need to prove that there is one. You need to prove that there is a sandbox crowd worth making an AAA MMORPG.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
So now that you are done belittling everyone and their opinion and taste, do you have any arguments besides your "feeling" and the absence of evidence.
Because the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So if I'm saying that there is no flying spaghetti monster, I need to prove there really isn't one?
The ball is in your court, man. You need to prove that there is one. You need to prove that there is a sandbox crowd worth making an AAA MMORPG.
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
The closest game I've played to a sandbox was SWG, and there wasn't much of a game there. The available tools for creating a virtual world were limited. At some point players were using their houses AS walls because DEV's didn't forsee that people might want to create real cities that HAVE WALLS.
It took, a year to have multi-passenger vehicles, and even then, the vehicles merged and became part of your character. You couldn't say, open the door and shoot from the hip, or ride on the hood. The best thing they had in the game was the crafting / resource system and, it was tedious and boring to level up.
It was a shell of a game, incomplete in so many ways, extremely mismanaged by the ever missing Hayden Blackman, I could go on and on.
At the end of the day, quite a few people still loved it for all it's flaws. I guess my point is, no one has ever spent the big dough on a sandbox MMO, probably no one has ever even created a real sandbox MMO, just shells of games with a few sandbox elements.
I don't think a massive sandbox crowd is a myth, I think the thread title is a great way to grab attention. There is a giant crowd of people waiting to play anything, check out how many people play farmville.
Originally posted by Chrisbox Agreed, if they wanted a sandbox they wouldn't be discussing themeparks games, and would probably be subbed to a sandbox.
That is a weak argument. Cr@p games are cr@p. A sandbox fan is not going to buy a game or sub to a game that is cr@p, sandbox or not.
Going outside the realm of gaming, I am a horror fan. I like zombies. That doesn't mean I'm going to watch "Blair Witch IV, Zombies Attack!" if it comes out. Cr@p is cr@p and there's no reason to support it.
Eve is not cr@p and it is a sandbox. That doesn't mean all sandbox fans are into an outer space, ship combat game. Why would a fan of medieval fantasy subscribe to Eve?
Outside the realm of gaming, I like horror movies. I'm not a fan of slasher flicks, even though they are horror movies. Why would I rent a slasher flick, when I like horror movies, but not slasher flicks?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So now that you are done belittling everyone and their opinion and taste, do you have any arguments besides your "feeling" and the absence of evidence.
Because the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So if I'm saying that there is no flying spaghetti monster, I need to prove there really isn't one?
The ball is in your court, man. You need to prove that there is one. You need to prove that there is a sandbox crowd worth making an AAA MMORPG.
You made a claim, dont shift the burden of proof.
You said the sandbox crowd is a myth.
Prove it.
And yes, if you are saying there is no flying spaghetti monster, you would need to prove that there really isn't one.
But you can't, because you don't have an argument.
You have no position, you made one up, one that nobody holds in the first place, then you beat it up. Congratulations, you win by making a really nice strawman.
Lets be honest here, you are not interested in discussion, nor arguments, you just want to incite discord, insult and belittle people.
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
Wasting our time. Got it.
In other words. he's Trolling
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
And yes, if you are saying there is no flying spaghetti monster, you would need to prove that there really isn't one.
But you can't, because you don't have an argument.
Actually the burden of proof lies on the one making the outrageous claim...and anyone saying there IS a flying spaghetti monster needs to prove it...not the people saying there isnt one.
Sorry...but you made a poor example.
Anyway. With this...the sandbox claim...the burden of prood does lay with those saying the sandbox crowd is massive because historically there have been no sandbox games with a population anywhere near the biggest themepark games.
BTW...I prefer sandbox games...just not sandbox games made by Raph Koster.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
As it stands, there's hardly one, and it has been like that for so long that merely saying there hasn't been the right one yet is not going to cut it. Many have tried, many have failed and even if these games were any good they would've showed much more interest from the public, don't you think?
you just prove a point against your point.....there hasnt been a good one in forever. Eve can be considered good. wasnbt my cup of tea. SWG was the 2nd largest MMO out there till WoW hit. but SWG was bug riddles mess(still my fav mmo tho)
name me a good sandbox since SWG/EvE?
Archeage
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by NevulusOriginally posted by Quirhid
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.
When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.
When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
I'm amazed how you think that DayZ makes a blip in hardly anyone's radar. Were you the guy who said it rivalled Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty 4 in sales?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Indeed! I'm calling BS on the notion that there is this mythical mass of players that want a sandbox virtual world MMO. If there was one, I would hear about it, devs would see it, and there would be games for that crowd. As it stands, there's hardly one, and it has been like that for so long that merely saying there hasn't been the right one yet is not going to cut it. Many have tried, many have failed and even if these games were any good they would've showed much more interest from the public, don't you think?
How can you have a "massive" virtual world when you only have a handful of players to fill it. And how can you get funding to something that has such a small audience. You are doomed to wander from indie game to indie game...
Admit it. You are to rest of the MMORPG players what LARPers are to P&P role players. "Regular people" snicker at people who play D&D but everyone laughs at LARPers (no offense meant - but they do).
Ben "Yahtzee" Crosshaw hit the nail in the head: -"Eve players are to nerds what nerds are to normal people."
Even if some recent themeparks have failed or will fail in your eyes, I'm quite confident in saying that there will be no major shift towards sandboxes of any sort. People still love themeparks - they just don't like shitty games, thats all.
I'm calling BS on this OP.
I dont play sandbox games, never have. However I would, if there were a game that is not a neverending public closed-beta test, has all the systems and features well done and thought out, would have the graphics of today and not 10 years from past, and the most important is offer server options besides the FFA full loot (or similar current systems) which is repelling all the non hardcore crowd away.
Usually every sandbox game goes wrong in at least 3 of these points and that is way too much for me to even try them, or really even talk about them. The problem is not being a sandbox, the problem is how to be a sandbox, in my eyes at least.
It's kinda the same problem that themepark side is having, same shit coming over and over in different wrapping, both styles of mmorpgs would do a lot better if devs and/or investors would have the balls to try out and do something a bit differently, at the very least give more options on how to play (server types). Oh and sandbox-side would also need some investors to begin with.
So now that you are done belittling everyone and their opinion and taste, do you have any arguments besides your "feeling" and the absence of evidence.
Because the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
So if I'm saying that there is no flying spaghetti monster, I need to prove there really isn't one?
The ball is in your court, man. You need to prove that there is one. You need to prove that there is a sandbox crowd worth making an AAA MMORPG.
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
Gotta love responses like this which totally ignore what the person was responding to and in turn asks these redundant nonsensical questions. I'm a sandbox fan like many here, yet I can see how insignificant we are to the overall genre. We're a niche within a niche you can't get much more drowned out than that, unless you're a mute with no fingers to type with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
I'm amazed how you think that DayZ makes a blip in hardly anyone's radar. Were you the guy who said it rivalled Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty 4 in sales?
no. but if you think its barely making a blip on the radar, you're living under a rock.
Comparing DayZ to BF3 and COD4 isn't quite fair. It's like comparing apples and helicopters....
#2 Most (if not all) marketing is based on word of mouth, not $100M+ USD
#3 It's a MOD to ArmA II, which makes it harder to access for the average person. In addition, that ArmA II engine is a nightmare (IMHO).
But, despite all that, it's #1 is steam sales (and has been for at least a week or two). It also sold out on Amazon last week and In the 1.5 weeks I've been playing the player base jumped from 800K to over 1.5M.
Only time will tell, but it's definitely a sandbox and it's definitely scratching an itch for many gamers.
I'm excited about DayZ, but I'm more excited about the types of sandbox games that it's going to encourage in the future.
ya well there wasn't a massive fanbase for MMOs in general until the right MMOs were made to bring them in. assuming that your assumption is correct, that you don't see it now does not in any way indicate that it cannot or does not exist in the future. i could make a very long list of products and services that had no consumer base until the product or service was offered under the right circumstances and in the right fashion.
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by DannyGloverOriginally posted by Quirhid
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.I'm amazed how you think that DayZ makes a blip in hardly anyone's radar. Were you the guy who said it rivalled Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty 4 in sales? no. but if you think its barely making a blip on the radar, you're living under a rock.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
There are games for that crowd and one (EvE) is actually pretty big.
Aren't EVE subs less than the "failure" SWTOR? Why the double standard?
1. 400K people is a massive crowd. I think it's big
2. Lets see how much SWTOR has in 9 years
3. Did I ever say SWTOR failed? I think it is bad, but I think the same about EvE. Not a fan of either.
Not to mention the little fact that EVE didn't cost an obscene amount of money to make. EVE is raking in massive profits whereas SWTOR is not. It's all about the profit margin not number of subs.
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.
When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
DayZ is a survival game, and it's popularity seems to stem more from it being an interesting apporach to the Zombie Apocalypse fad which is very popular today, rather than for sandbox game-play.
AS for it's popularity eclipsing upcoming games, I don't know where you're getting that from. A few threads here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
#2 Most (if not all) marketing is based on word of mouth, not $100M+ USD
#3 It's a MOD to ArmA II, which makes it harder to access for the average person. In addition, that ArmA II engine is a nightmare (IMHO).
But, despite all that, it's #1 is steam sales (and has been for at least a week or two). It also sold out on Amazon last week and In the 1.5 weeks I've been playing the player base jumped from 800K to over 1.5M.
Only time will tell, but it's definitely a sandbox and it's definitely scratching an itch for many gamers.
I'm excited about DayZ, but I'm more excited about the types of sandbox games that it's going to encourage in the future.
Can you build things or manipulate the world in DayZ? If not, there's no "sand" to be manipulated, so it's not a sandbox.
(Update: and it's more than just building things. I built things in TF2, but I'm not going to call it a sandbox because of that. Manipulating the world has to be a strong element of gameplay for a game to be sandbox.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.
When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
DayZ is a survival game, and it's popularity seems to stem more from it being an interesting apporach to the Zombie Apocalypse fad which is very popular today, rather than for sandbox game-play.
AS for it's popularity eclipsing upcoming games, I don't know where you're getting that from. A few threads here?
DayZ is the #1 game on Steam (it's a mod for ArmA II). And it sold out last week on Amazon during their sale.
It's also been getting pleny of press coverage, check the twitter account...he retweets all the coverage there.
Comments
The more I play MMO's the more freedom I want. You don't?
Sandparks are the future! (I wish)
So if I'm saying that there is no flying spaghetti monster, I need to prove there really isn't one?
The ball is in your court, man. You need to prove that there is one. You need to prove that there is a sandbox crowd worth making an AAA MMORPG.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
So are you the almighty godfather of MMOS? Why does anyone have to prove anything to you? Are you some multi-millionaire investor, because last time I checked investors with large capital go about doing their headhunting by different means, not trolling forums.
The closest game I've played to a sandbox was SWG, and there wasn't much of a game there. The available tools for creating a virtual world were limited. At some point players were using their houses AS walls because DEV's didn't forsee that people might want to create real cities that HAVE WALLS.
It took, a year to have multi-passenger vehicles, and even then, the vehicles merged and became part of your character. You couldn't say, open the door and shoot from the hip, or ride on the hood. The best thing they had in the game was the crafting / resource system and, it was tedious and boring to level up.
It was a shell of a game, incomplete in so many ways, extremely mismanaged by the ever missing Hayden Blackman, I could go on and on.
At the end of the day, quite a few people still loved it for all it's flaws. I guess my point is, no one has ever spent the big dough on a sandbox MMO, probably no one has ever even created a real sandbox MMO, just shells of games with a few sandbox elements.
I don't think a massive sandbox crowd is a myth, I think the thread title is a great way to grab attention. There is a giant crowd of people waiting to play anything, check out how many people play farmville.
<|Trionicus|>
That is a weak argument. Cr@p games are cr@p. A sandbox fan is not going to buy a game or sub to a game that is cr@p, sandbox or not.
Going outside the realm of gaming, I am a horror fan. I like zombies. That doesn't mean I'm going to watch "Blair Witch IV, Zombies Attack!" if it comes out. Cr@p is cr@p and there's no reason to support it.
Eve is not cr@p and it is a sandbox. That doesn't mean all sandbox fans are into an outer space, ship combat game. Why would a fan of medieval fantasy subscribe to Eve?
Outside the realm of gaming, I like horror movies. I'm not a fan of slasher flicks, even though they are horror movies. Why would I rent a slasher flick, when I like horror movies, but not slasher flicks?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You made a claim, dont shift the burden of proof.
You said the sandbox crowd is a myth.
Prove it.
And yes, if you are saying there is no flying spaghetti monster, you would need to prove that there really isn't one.
But you can't, because you don't have an argument.
You have no position, you made one up, one that nobody holds in the first place, then you beat it up. Congratulations, you win by making a really nice strawman.
Lets be honest here, you are not interested in discussion, nor arguments, you just want to incite discord, insult and belittle people.
G'day.
Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wasting our time. Got it.
In other words. he's Trolling
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Actually the burden of proof lies on the one making the outrageous claim...and anyone saying there IS a flying spaghetti monster needs to prove it...not the people saying there isnt one.
Sorry...but you made a poor example.
Anyway. With this...the sandbox claim...the burden of prood does lay with those saying the sandbox crowd is massive because historically there have been no sandbox games with a population anywhere near the biggest themepark games.
BTW...I prefer sandbox games...just not sandbox games made by Raph Koster.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Archeage
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Nope. Just throwing a challenge. Calling certain posters out on their claims. They love to insinuate that the reason why people don't like the recent MMORPGs is because deep down they love sandboxes, the game didn't have enough sandbox features in it, or that sandoxes require a refined taste (the restaurant vs fast food example), or that devs are just plain greedy or stupid and don't know what they're doing.
Some of them are trolling, some of them aren't. I'm calling them out.
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread.
When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I'm amazed how you think that DayZ makes a blip in hardly anyone's radar. Were you the guy who said it rivalled Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty 4 in sales?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I always thought a game should have a sandbox base to start with the theme park element added.
I'm calling BS on this OP.
I dont play sandbox games, never have. However I would, if there were a game that is not a neverending public closed-beta test, has all the systems and features well done and thought out, would have the graphics of today and not 10 years from past, and the most important is offer server options besides the FFA full loot (or similar current systems) which is repelling all the non hardcore crowd away.
Usually every sandbox game goes wrong in at least 3 of these points and that is way too much for me to even try them, or really even talk about them. The problem is not being a sandbox, the problem is how to be a sandbox, in my eyes at least.
It's kinda the same problem that themepark side is having, same shit coming over and over in different wrapping, both styles of mmorpgs would do a lot better if devs and/or investors would have the balls to try out and do something a bit differently, at the very least give more options on how to play (server types). Oh and sandbox-side would also need some investors to begin with.
There are around 7 billion people that don't play MMORPGs so clearly the entire genre is a myth.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Gotta love responses like this which totally ignore what the person was responding to and in turn asks these redundant nonsensical questions. I'm a sandbox fan like many here, yet I can see how insignificant we are to the overall genre. We're a niche within a niche you can't get much more drowned out than that, unless you're a mute with no fingers to type with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comparing DayZ to BF3 and COD4 isn't quite fair. It's like comparing apples and helicopters....
#1 It's in alpha right now.
#2 Most (if not all) marketing is based on word of mouth, not $100M+ USD
#3 It's a MOD to ArmA II, which makes it harder to access for the average person. In addition, that ArmA II engine is a nightmare (IMHO).
But, despite all that, it's #1 is steam sales (and has been for at least a week or two). It also sold out on Amazon last week and In the 1.5 weeks I've been playing the player base jumped from 800K to over 1.5M.
Only time will tell, but it's definitely a sandbox and it's definitely scratching an itch for many gamers.
I'm excited about DayZ, but I'm more excited about the types of sandbox games that it's going to encourage in the future.
ya well there wasn't a massive fanbase for MMOs in general until the right MMOs were made to bring them in. assuming that your assumption is correct, that you don't see it now does not in any way indicate that it cannot or does not exist in the future. i could make a very long list of products and services that had no consumer base until the product or service was offered under the right circumstances and in the right fashion.
The only challenge I see is your failure to recognize all the massively popular sandbox games that have been brought up in this thread. When a few guys make a sandbox mod out of a 2009 fps (DayZ) and its popularity eclipses current and upcoming multi million dollar themeparks, I don't really see any other need to try and prove your claims false.
I'm amazed how you think that DayZ makes a blip in hardly anyone's radar. Were you the guy who said it rivalled Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty 4 in sales?
no. but if you think its barely making a blip on the radar, you're living under a rock.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Not to mention the little fact that EVE didn't cost an obscene amount of money to make. EVE is raking in massive profits whereas SWTOR is not. It's all about the profit margin not number of subs.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
DayZ is a survival game, and it's popularity seems to stem more from it being an interesting apporach to the Zombie Apocalypse fad which is very popular today, rather than for sandbox game-play.
AS for it's popularity eclipsing upcoming games, I don't know where you're getting that from. A few threads here?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can you build things or manipulate the world in DayZ? If not, there's no "sand" to be manipulated, so it's not a sandbox.
(Update: and it's more than just building things. I built things in TF2, but I'm not going to call it a sandbox because of that. Manipulating the world has to be a strong element of gameplay for a game to be sandbox.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
DayZ is the #1 game on Steam (it's a mod for ArmA II). And it sold out last week on Amazon during their sale.
It's also been getting pleny of press coverage, check the twitter account...he retweets all the coverage there.