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Sure signs that MMOs do not deserve your money?
ozewa
Member UncommonPosts: 11
I've been watching the MMO market for the past 15 years or so, and at this point... I have to say there are a few things that just signal to me that a game designer is lazy and doesn't deserve my money.
What're a few things you can think of?
For me, the first thing I look at is always the cash shop. I sit down with my calculator and figure out exactly how far I can get with $20. I look at how much of what I can buy in the cash shop is unlockable in the game itself. I begin to form my opinion based on what I see there.
Usually, a big indicator that a developer is just being lazy is if they're selling inventory space. Stash/bank space is a bit more of a grey area, but inventory space by character is a big red flag. Here is why I think that, over the past 5 years it seems that every free to play mmo has sold inventory space of some sort and at this point it has gotten stale and boring hearing about how this game is different from that game and so on and so forth when they all want to monetize on tuning the basic inventory space way too low. It is too easy, too standard of a thing that requires almost no forethought and seems like it should be considered a lazy practice.
Comments
Do you REALLY want devs looking for "creative" ways to monetize their cash shops rather than sticking with what has been deemed acceptable?
Yes, because reducing Inventory in a game that is based on Drops just plainly SUCKS. And that game I do not play.
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
I perceive this as a scheme from the Develloper/Seller/Publisher to try and force me to pay in order to play their game. But the only thing they ever were able to force me to do is quit their game.
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Doesn't that depends on exactly how much space do you start with compared to other games?
And other little details like the ability to list items in the auction house from everywhere or depositing crafting materials straight to your bank from everywhere?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
You seem to be focused on F2P and B2P games.
For me, I look at if the company has made a game before and if so, go by that. Example: I will NOT buy TSW no matter what because Funcom has shown they do not have the ability to release a game in good shape and take near a year to get it to that point.
If they havent made a game before and I cannot get into the beta, I wait a few months after release so I can really read up on what the game has in it in its final form. If the game looks remotely like it was heavily designed for a small segment of the MMO playertypes...I pass. I cannot stand limited MMOs, if it doesnt have variety then it wont last long enough for me to continue playing it for more than a few months.
For F2P games, no pay traps. If they are locking most of the game unless you pay...it isnt free, and hiding it means they are not the type of company I would want to support with even a single penny...Funcom, Sony and Turbine I am talking to you. Either go free or stay a failing sub based game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think you're confusing "Free to Play" with "Free" (I've never heard of a sub MMO selling inventory space; I could be wrong). Just because it's theoretically possible to level to max or threrabouts without ever using the cash shops in most freemium MMOs doesn't mean that they should make it preferable. Development costs money, keeping the lights on costs money, paying live development teams costs money.
If you're at a point where inventory space is that much of a concern - which usually takes a while - then you either need to decide if it's worth it or not. If it's a decent enough game, it shouldn't be some sort of epic struggle to decide whether or not to pitch $5 into the cash shop for an extra bag. But complaining that companies are trying to monetize a product that significant resources have been committed to misses the point of the enterprise entirely.
I agree.
Oh man you sugar coating it so much, you will makes us get diabetes.
Listen, as players, we do not care if devellopment costs money, and the business behind the game. What we care about is to have fun and to not be considered suckers taken for granted.
Limiting Inventory and then asking money for expanding it is one of the worse decisions for a cash shop purchassable items there even been. I do not have to tactically and strategically make a calculated decision to open my wallet in order to have fun, if i do not have fun in the first couple of hours...game is gone, if I do not have fun in the first 3 days game is gone, if I do not have fun for a solid 2 weeks game is gone, and the criteria refreshes as more of the game is being discovered.
Limiting inventory does make or break a game for me.
If the company wants to make money, if they want me to open my wallet (and I do and have done so in the few F2P games which I have found fun) then they will have to addapt to my preference as a consumer not the other way around. i do not "have" to play their game, I can play any other game if theirs does not fit my idea of fun.
As plainly as that.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Ok, you know what... if it was ever JUST $5 then it would never have been an issue. The problem is that they'll try to sell you extra bags at $5 per each and they aren't account wide, they're per character and not account wide, so you'd end up needing to drop an extra $200 just to get all the bags and usually its not even a bag slot. It is usually an extra 6-8 spaces.
Take Star Trek Online for one example. You can spend snag 8 per character at $2.50 each, and 4$ for each of the 8 bank slots available, so per character you're spending $52 on JUST inventory space.
Meanwhile they have $500 of account wide content in their cash shop and really don't need to bilk consumers on inventory space. That is one of the more equitable cash shops too. It does have a good amount of content in their cash shop and they try to add new things to it at least once a month.
My point is that the inventory space that is sold in EVERY cash shop I can think of and it is passed the point of being cliche. So why on earth would I keep paying for a cliche?
The same can be applied to anything. A game charged a monthly subscription fee to allow access...other games followed and it became a cliche.
Now look at it in another way. Once you buy the pack, you wont need to buy it again. its a one time $5 charge. In sub games you are continually spending a fee...with this one, you spend it for that character and are done...for as long as the game is running.
BTW...I suggest you avoid Runes of Magic...lol...painful.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Well i didnt really need to read this thread...I have been part of the Darkfall Community since its NA server launch and well...they over the last 3 years have given us a complete understanding of why some MMO companies do not deserve our money, i am now unsubbed btw.
But in all honesty Aventurine is probably the worst MMO company on the market.
I used to play STO for a while and really liked the game even spent some money on it at first, but when the lockboxes came back after a brief pause i just could not enjoy any more it was just too much in your face if you know what i mean. And yes i know it is possible to play the game without spending a dime on it but that is not the point , i felt like i was there to be taken advantage of and it basically kill the buzz for me.
If I see any of the following:
EA
SOE
FFA PVP
Single Server
Cash Shop
F2P
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
If you don't care about the business considerations behind a game, then you probably need to start.
Cash shops aren't "tip jars" for the developers. If you put time (and presumably money) into a game that's unsustainable, then your various investments are going to go up in smoke. At the same time, there are (as of my last viewing) dozens of F2P MMOs, so it shouldn't be tough to find one that suits your preferences. But if studios stop selling extra bag space (which is unlikely), then they're going to need to make up that revenue some other way, and it's probably going to be less palatable to more people than selling two or three bags of inventory space. Potentially alienating a large percentage of their target market (or shutting down) versus pleasing you and the rest of the minority that wouldn't consider a game because of inventory isn't really something that they're going to lose sleep over.
Every game (that I have seen at least) limits inventory. Every one. Does that mean that you don't play MMOs ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
I'm not sure why the novelty of a business model has anything to do with it. If I were to take your argument to its extreme, manufacturing a product and then selling it for money is the biggest cliche in business.
In any case, yes, if you were to buy every bag unlock for every character, it might be $200 in some games, but that would be at the extreme top end. If you were to buy two bag slots in LOTRO (for example), you'd run 990 TP (~$10 depending on factors), which is less than the cost of a month of subscription in most sub games or premium tiers for freemiums. So, unless other games are abusing that, I don't really think that the value proposition is out of line.
A person who really hates something can't make a point without a hyperbole.
Except that there are other things in cash shops that are far far more profitable than inventory space, even the most profitable inventory space proposition. What really gets my goat is when companies release a cash shop bag expansion while in the same breath touting the quality of their game.
If they were a real quality MMO they'd be selling other things in their cash shop while making any of the bag expansions part of the game. Or at the very least make the cash shop bag expansions unlockable in the game, because damn... having to pay for character slots AND convenience unlocks (which are designed to be inconvenient) diminishes any feeling of equity I get from spending money on the game.
But just so we're clear here:
The only subscription MMO I am familiar with that sells extended inventory is UO. Is there another one that you are referring to, or are you actually crying foul about a free game you are playing actually charging you for something a month or so in?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ok, so Star Trek Online did for a long time before they went free to play.
Guild Wars 2 will, but again... not sure if that counts.
Regardless, it still seems lazy to me. Selling inventory space for real money.
Lazy? It takes far more effort to create a game item, have to place it in a shop, set up the transaction for it and also have that trigger an item appearing in game...than just having "bags" in game.
Its not lazy, its smart...for a F2P or B2P game...downright greedy for a sub game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I agree with the OP.
I played EQ2 and Lotro F2P when they first started. In both games I hadn't played out my first session before bag space was limiting my progression / enjoyment - IN THE STARTING AREA.
Needless to say, I didn't play another session.
I tried the AOC F2P the other night, there was some promo on for free cash shop stuff.
I entered the game as a new character, visited the cash shop to claim my freebies. Sure enough it was some good stuff.
Went on my way to start the game and killed a few pirates...
I get an item drop, try to pick it up, but nooo my inventory is full.
LOL the items I claimed had filled my inventory before I even started. I swear the available bag slots were 12 or so (OMG). It wasn't even stuff I would like to throw away!
So I either cough up now for bag space, or lose the bonus items?
Maybe I just quit while I'm ahead.
In contrast, I played AION F2P a few weeks ago, played a few days in a row and never felt a need for anythin yet. Plenty bag space at least.
Yes, it's a cheap trick that is losing customers from the very start.
Alright, so it is smart to extract that rent from players?
You might be right. Sure, sure. My particular problem with that specific feature is that, as I said... it is lazy. If I am a developer, and I put inventory space in my cash shop, and I know people will buy it... this makes me not want to produce new content to put in the cash shop.
Why does it do that? Because I know I can extract an extra $20 per character, and each player gets 3 characters when they buy the game, which cost $60 to begin with. So I'm getting $120 per player and I haven't done a damned thing yet.
You might look at that and say it is "Smart", however I look at that and say it is lazy and exploitative.
That would be true if it was always the case.
See, someone like Funcom for example has bags for sale and are not creating new content...but then again, they didnt create new content when it was a sub game and the bags were free...
Some companies are lazy, they are lazy because they are...not because they know they can sell bags.
I say that, because there are more than a few games that sell bags and continually add new content.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson