Sure signs? When the additional p2p / f2p / B2p SHOP offers - [shop exclusive] - items and everything is just the item instead of an epic story / quest which grants the item.
To give a little explanation: Old MMOs would allow you to add / reset skillpoints & advanced classes (if it had archetypes of classes) by giving you an EPIC...for emphasis..EPIC questchain with rich story, lore, and task to archieve your skillpoint reset. Mostly spawning over a few days "work".
Today: Spend 15$ for reset.
It's not about it having fast resoults (if they are not exclusive to the store i don't mind), it's about the philosophy of adding things to a game by gaming instead of "just" adding a "solution" with a quick money grab.
When "solutions" or "additions" are not designed to enrich the gameplay through gameplay but through direct payment, that's when i know that game and the company is not worth my time.
Everytime i see shop exclusive mounts, clothes, xp boost, i die a little inside my gamers heart. Imagine all the possibilities to get those items with game activity....
I don't mind paying for a game, everyting has a price, but i don't get a "game" for my money. I get items, and that's not what i'm willing ot pay for in a "MMO / Game".
As for the inventory space and the additional exclusive selling of space? Someone once said it more fitting then i could do: They are selling solutions to problems they created. Personaly i don't care if another player, playss ignorant devils advocate about it, if i find bag space lacking and my only way is to pay directly for it, it's a huge dealbreaker to me, might not be enough to quit but sure will add up over time.
An exclusive bag (item space) sold in the shop is one more missing quest / activity (crafting) for the core game.
Originally posted by LoktofeitThe only subscription MMO I am familiar with that sells extended inventory is UO. Is there another one that you are referring to, or are you actually crying foul about a free game you are playing actually charging you for something a month or so in?
Ok, so Star Trek Online did for a long time before they went free to play. Guild Wars 2 will, but again... not sure if that counts. Regardless, it still seems lazy to me. Selling inventory space for real money.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't have a subscription fee.
But lets look at GW2 as an example.
You start with a 20 space backpack. Additionally you can add 4 other bags of up to 20 spaces each. So that is 100 spaces. with no money invested.
You can then pay to unlock 3 more bag slots for $5 each..
So for $15, which is basically a monthly fee, you have your character with an additional 60 potential slots, if you need it.
Considering you can salvage weapons, armor and other items to obtain crafting materials and those crafting materials can be sent instantly to your crafting materials bank storage panel and that you can additionally list items in the AH from everywhere (each opens a slot in your bag), simply following your general rule wouldn't be that good IMO.
Picture of the account vault depicting the crafting materials pane:
Just to double check... are you asserting that they couldn't have figured out something better to sell BESIDES inventory space that would not have been equally as profitable and less intrusive?
I appreciate the effort you put into that, and it does sound like a very feature rich system. Even so I still firmly beleive that them selling inventory space reeks of laziness. I get that they have to subsidize their servers, but what I'm saying is that they could have basically picked just about any other thing to sell me, and slaughtered that sacred cow for the sole purpose of proving that they are the quality MMO they say they are and don't need to rely on such base tactics of monetization.
Ah, we finally reached the point of this thread.
They give you plenty of space, rivalling any MMO that charges you a monthly fee.
I mean, why doesn't a game like WoW give you 3 extra bag slots to a character of your choice every month? How lazy is charging a monthly fee without giving you nothing in return?
GW2 gives you plenty of functionality out of the box - the extra space is just luxury.
The difference is simple:
In WoW you need to toss $15 a month or you can't play.
In GW2 if you feel comfortable with your inventory space, you pay nothing. If you wish you had more space, you can trade in game money for gems or you can pay $5.
Now, if you feel 100 inventory spaces is lacking, especially when you have the ability to store some items in your bank from everywhere and have the ability to sell in the AH from everywhere, have instant travel, you can send and receive mail from everywhere, well I think you just want to bash.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Sure signs? When the additional p2p / f2p / B2p SHOP offers - [shop exclusive] - items and everything is just the item instead of an epic story / quest which grants the item. To give a little explanation: Old MMOs would allow you to add / reset skillpoints & advanced classes (if it had archetypes of classes) by giving you an EPIC...for emphasis..EPIC questchain with rich story, lore, and task to archieve your skillpoint reset. Mostly spawning over a few days "work".
Today: Spend 15$ for reset. It's not about it having fast resoults (if they are not exclusive to the store i don't mind), it's about the philosophy of adding things to a game by gaming instead of "just" adding a "solution" with a quick money grab. When "solutions" or "additions" are not designed to enrich the gameplay through gameplay but through direct payment, that's when i know that game and the company is not worth my time. Everytime i see shop exclusive mounts, clothes, xp boost, i die a little inside my gamers heart. Imagine all the possibilities to get those items with game activity....
I don't mind paying for a game, everyting has a price, but i don't get a "game" for my money. I get items, and that's not what i'm willing ot pay for in a "MMO / Game".
As for the inventory space and the additional exclusive selling of space? Someone once said it more fitting then i could do: They are selling solutions to problems they created. Personaly i don't care if another player, playss ignorant devils advocate about it, if i find bag space lacking and my only way is to pay directly for it, it's a huge dealbreaker to me, might not be enough to quit but sure will add up over time.
An exclusive bag (item space) sold in the shop is one more missing quest / activity (crafting) for the core game.
I don´t like item shops either but MMOs needs to earn money one way or the other, as long as said game doesn´t have a monthly fee we will have to live with some stuff will be sold at the marketplace.
What annoys me is the huge number of games that both charges a monthly fee and then sell you all kinds of extra crap. The reason I pay monthly fees is to not suffer stuff like that.
I don´t care if RoM or GW charges for extra bag space, I have played GW over 5 years and never really even considered buying more space and neither games have monthly fees. In those cases it is a once time fee and unless they charge you through your nose you will not pay than more than 15 bucks for it anyways.
Selling stuff like this really only gets annoying when they add them to singleplayer games like Dragon age.
But monthly fee games shouldn´t sell any extra junk, I am paying for all the content you cheap ¤%%& publishers. If you want more money, fine, raise the monthly fees with a buck instead.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter Doesn't that depends on exactly how much space do you start with compared to other games?And other little details like the ability to list items in the auction house from everywhere or depositing crafting materials straight to your bank from everywhere?
No, you should not "compare" to other games if those other games do not have the same ammount of inventory space usage.
Some put questitems in your inventory, others don't. Some do not have "junk / trash" loot (grey items) at all, they give you money or just crafting materials. Some don't have 20 variant's of crafting materials (quality) or consumables.
You can't compare 100 spaces with a game full of crafting item quality bloat and trash item drops of 6 variants per mob type, including questitems to a game which does nothing of it and has 100 or just 30 slots.
I've been watching the MMO market for the past 15 years or so, and at this point... I have to say there are a few things that just signal to me that a game designer is lazy and doesn't deserve my money.
What're a few things you can think of?
...
1. The devs run out of money and decide to rush the game no matter what the beta testers say.
2. DEVs state that the game will be traditional (That means they rip off another MMO to 99% or so).
3. DEVs bodly states that they intend to steal most or all of Wows subs (What were Barnett thinking?).
4. The game designer reuses the same model over and over and over meaning that the same monster skin is used with different colors over and over. There is just a single robe/cloth armor in different colors or similar really lazy options.
5. Constant issues with login servers and crashes for more than a few days after launch.
I wont play games where you have to think about reallife money ingame. Thats absurd. I want to pay for the game, then enjoy an alternative reality.
More generally, I dont like the idea of having games where people play under different conditions. Pay to win games is nothing I want to tolerate, ever.
I am not interested in twitch games. Give me third person perspective and tab targetting and cooldowns on abilities, or else you wont attract me as a customer.
I am not interested in treadmil gaming (Tetris gaming). If I have to work just to stand in the same spot, I am out.
No, you should not "compare" to other games if those other games do not have the same ammount of inventory space usage.
Some put questitems in your inventory, others don't. Some do not have "junk / trash" loot (grey items) at all, they give you money or just crafting materials. Some don't have 20 variant's of crafting materials (quality) or consumables.
You can't compare 100 spaces with a game full of crafting item quality bloat and trash item drops of 6 variants per mob type, including questitems to a game which does nothing of it and has 100 or just 30 slots.
Yes GW2 isn't a shining beacon in that regard.
Not really, no. In the BWE I usually just scrapped all the crap for mats and sent it to the bank but that is a far from perfect system.
ANET could have scrapped all the vendortrash since it really just makes things more boring.
Still, GW2 is far from the worst game in this aspect. Many game fill you up with an incredible amount of trash. Take EQ2 where you can have huge boxes on you but you still fill them up in 10 minutes if you loot all trash that drops.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter Doesn't that depends on exactly how much space do you start with compared to other games?
And other little details like the ability to list items in the auction house from everywhere or depositing crafting materials straight to your bank from everywhere?
No, you should not "compare" to other games if those other games do not have the same ammount of inventory space usage.
Some put questitems in your inventory, others don't. Some do not have "junk / trash" loot (grey items) at all, they give you money or just crafting materials. Some don't have 20 variant's of crafting materials (quality) or consumables.
You can't compare 100 spaces with a game full of crafting item quality bloat and trash item drops of 6 variants per mob type, including questitems to a game which does nothing of it and has 100 or just 30 slots.
Yes GW2 isn't a shining beacon in that regard.
Just out of curiosity, which other games were you thinking about?
And are you stating that GW2 inventory isn't enough but those other games inventories are enough and you never wish you had more space?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think you're confusing "Free to Play" with "Free" (I've never heard of a sub MMO selling inventory space; I could be wrong).
You are wrong - Turbine does it.
Umm, Turbine games are all free now. and I know for sure that AC1, DDO and LoTRo were not selling bag space before they went F2P/Pay trap
You should be careful when saying things like "Umm" when you aren't standing on firm ground of knowledge. I have a DDO account (PTP) and trust me, I can go spend $5 and buy some bag space at any time.
They also keep adding things like crafting and traps which guess what.... require a lot of inventory space!
And you should be careful when replying to someone saying "umm" as if you are going to refute him and end up not doing it. You may have a DDO account, but you have a DDO account in F2P DDO...the game was not released as F2P, the bags you can buy now...were not there when it was a sub based game which is what I said before.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Alright, so it is smart to extract that rent from players?
You might be right. Sure, sure. My particular problem with that specific feature is that, as I said... it is lazy. If I am a developer, and I put inventory space in my cash shop, and I know people will buy it... this makes me not want to produce new content to put in the cash shop.
Why does it do that? Because I know I can extract an extra $20 per character, and each player gets 3 characters when they buy the game, which cost $60 to begin with. So I'm getting $120 per player and I haven't done a damned thing yet.
You might look at that and say it is "Smart", however I look at that and say it is lazy and exploitative.
That would be true if it was always the case.
See, someone like Funcom for example has bags for sale and are not creating new content...but then again, they didnt create new content when it was a sub game and the bags were free...
Some companies are lazy, they are lazy because they are...not because they know they can sell bags.
I say that, because there are more than a few games that sell bags and continually add new content.
Well what games are those?
Runes of Magic RENTS bag space...ouch...and they have a lot of updates both free in game and in their shops.
DCU sells inventory expansions, they have been updating the game and shops since going F2P.
LORTO, same
DDO, same
Champions Online sells inventory expansions, updates their game with some free updates, some pay and they continually expand their shops with items.
I havent been keeping up with EQ2 since just after it went F2P but they do sell bags and they "said" they were going to continue updating the game and expanding the shop.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think you're confusing "Free to Play" with "Free" (I've never heard of a sub MMO selling inventory space; I could be wrong).
You are wrong - Turbine does it.
Umm, Turbine games are all free now. and I know for sure that AC1, DDO and LoTRo were not selling bag space before they went F2P/Pay trap
You should be careful when saying things like "Umm" when you aren't standing on firm ground of knowledge. I have a DDO account (PTP) and trust me, I can go spend $5 and buy some bag space at any time.
They also keep adding things like crafting and traps which guess what.... require a lot of inventory space!
And you should be careful when replying to someone saying "umm" as if you are going to refute him and end up not doing it. You may have a DDO account, but you have a DDO account in F2P DDO...the game was not released as F2P, the bags you can buy now...were not there when it was a sub based game which is what I said before.
Do Turbine's games not allow people to subscribe ?
If they do, then they are sub based games and FtP as well.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
I think you're confusing "Free to Play" with "Free" (I've never heard of a sub MMO selling inventory space; I could be wrong).
You are wrong - Turbine does it.
Umm, Turbine games are all free now. and I know for sure that AC1, DDO and LoTRo were not selling bag space before they went F2P/Pay trap
You should be careful when saying things like "Umm" when you aren't standing on firm ground of knowledge. I have a DDO account (PTP) and trust me, I can go spend $5 and buy some bag space at any time.
They also keep adding things like crafting and traps which guess what.... require a lot of inventory space!
And you should be careful when replying to someone saying "umm" as if you are going to refute him and end up not doing it. You may have a DDO account, but you have a DDO account in F2P DDO...the game was not released as F2P, the bags you can buy now...were not there when it was a sub based game which is what I said before.
Do Turbine's games not allow people to subscribe ?
If they do, then they are sub based games and FtP as well.
If you sub in LOTRO or DDO (or any other F2P game that has a sub option) then you get the full inventory slots.
I really don't understand why this is such an important diversion or why people need to bend over backwards to try and be right. If it's free to play, it's free to play, subscription options aside. I don't think any reasonable person would call DDO/LOTRO/etc "subscription based".
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
You may try to twist it as you want.
That fact is, that when you design a game based on progression and quests and gear and crafting all of which require inventory spece and then go and limit that inventory on purpose in order to cause an inconveniece to players and incite them to pay to eleviate that inconvenience so you can make a profit.
Then yes, it is the same as my village example.
if you cannot see this. Then wishing you good luck in yoru conformist existance and life.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
You may try to twist it as you want.
That fact is, that when you design a game based on progression and quests and gear and crafting all of which require inventory spece and then go and limit that inventory on purpose in order to cause an inconveniece to players and incite them to pay to eleviate that inconvenience so you can make a profit.
Then yes, it is the same as my village example.
if you cannot see this. Then wishing you good luck in yoru conformist existance and life.
This is one of those situations in which you can see a half-full glass or a half-empty glass.
Most games, if not all, have a storage limit, regardless if you can buy additional storage or not.
So one can see it as an incovinience created to make money from or a nice way to solve all those times where you were full (even though most likely you will reach a point where your bags will be full again).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
You may try to twist it as you want.
He explained it in a simple and objective manner. You compared it to the actions of a dastardly villain from a cheesy sci-fi movie.
And he's the one that's twisting things? LOL
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
You may try to twist it as you want.
That fact is, that when you design a game based on progression and quests and gear and crafting all of which require inventory spece and then go and limit that inventory on purpose in order to cause an inconveniece to players and incite them to pay to eleviate that inconvenience so you can make a profit.
Then yes, it is the same as my village example.
if you cannot see this. Then wishing you good luck in yoru conformist existance and life.
How many people die in real life as a result of a lack of storage in an MMO ?
Im not the one twisting things here. Seriously you are comparing mass murder to convenience items in a VIDEO GAME.
If you cannot see how there is a difference between real life and death situations and video game features then good luck with your psychosis.
I am curious, what games have unlimited storage ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
It is the same as if you went in to a village spread a virus and then came next day to sell the cure and profit from it.
Really ? I mean really ?
"Oh noes my character cannot hold as many Globs of Bug Ichor without spending a couple of bucks in the cash shop," is the same as engaging in real world biological warfare with the expectation of selling curatives to your targets ?
You know what its really like ?
Selling a product that people might want to, but dont have to, buy.
You may try to twist it as you want.
That fact is, that when you design a game based on progression and quests and gear and crafting all of which require inventory spece and then go and limit that inventory on purpose in order to cause an inconveniece to players and incite them to pay to eleviate that inconvenience so you can make a profit.
Then yes, it is the same as my village example.
if you cannot see this. Then wishing you good luck in yoru conformist existance and life.
You're absolutely right. Free enterprise is the devil. I can't beleive that they would actually sell things that make the game easier. That should automatically be included because it's not nice to make people pay for convenience. You should come join me picketing outside the so-called "convenience" store a couple blocks from my house where they are trying to sell jugs of milk! Can you beleive it?!?!?! If you go and get it straight from the cow, you don't have to give the cow five bucks!!!! Sure, it's bottled and pasteurized and kept cool, but those are just conveniences really. It should automatically be free because people exist and convenience is not something to be profited from.
I heard that there is going to be a meeting downtown where all of us non-conformists can rally about how we deserve everything for free. I hear they may be even giving away free tinfoil hats. F**kin A BUBBA!!! Free cause we deserve it!!!!
I heard a guy say "cool, we can get all these self centered lowlifes in one spot and shoot them all!" and you know what I said? I said "Well YOU will have to buy the bullets, you conformist!!!! Now who's laughing?"
If they reduce the inventory space after having found the "optimal" value, it's clearly a cash grab.
If they offer additional space for someone who wants to keep everything he ever finds, why not?
The problem lies within that we usually do not know which way i went, and that the "optimal" value is only optimal for what the developers want to achieve.
Like, in most singleplayer RPGs, there is no cash shop, so they do not artifically limit inventory space so you spend more money. But they limit it for gameplay reasons. So you have to decide what to pick up, what to keep, what to sell, and when to go back etc. Also limits the money you gain.
It's also a matter of designing the UI, especially if items take up a different amount of slots, like in Diablo or Deus Ex. Even if it would mean endless inventory, once you have to scroll, it's too much. Or 200 pages of inventory, same thing. Pointless, most people would prefer a limited inventory so they have a clear notification of when it's too much.
So if they *slightly* (to make many people actually want more space) reduce the space after finding this "optimal" value and/or if they offer additional space beyond, it's okay.
If they say "50 slots is perfect, let's give them 20!" - thats ridiculous.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
They don't deserve my money when they can't keep churning out great content; they don't deserve my money when the servers aren't okay or when they refuse to listen to their subscribers or when they implement pay-to-win features.
If a certain company honestly listens to it's customers and shows effort into building everyone's favorite game then I'm much less reluctant to pay them than if it's a triple-A studio which bathes in money and doesn't listen to its playerbase.
Originally posted by Loke666 But monthly fee games shouldn´t sell any extra junk, I am paying for all the content you cheap ¤%%& publishers. If you want more money, fine, raise the monthly fees with a buck instead.
+1 Could not have said it better myself!
On topic:
sub + cash shop
Combat centric gameplay
PvP Gankfest (non-consensual)
Gameworlds that don't immerse me
Bad, Whiney, Troll-Infested Communities
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I'm so desperate for anything remotely entertaining to play that I'm sort of willing to overlook a slightly shady monetization scheme. I realize that it's not particularly wise in the long-term, but the pickings truly are THAT SLIM.
We're definitely nowhere near an MMO apogee, that's for sure.
Comments
Sure signs?
When the additional p2p / f2p / B2p SHOP offers - [shop exclusive] - items and everything is just the item instead of an epic story / quest which grants the item.
To give a little explanation: Old MMOs would allow you to add / reset skillpoints & advanced classes (if it had archetypes of classes) by giving you an EPIC...for emphasis..EPIC questchain with rich story, lore, and task to archieve your skillpoint reset. Mostly spawning over a few days "work".
Today: Spend 15$ for reset.
It's not about it having fast resoults (if they are not exclusive to the store i don't mind), it's about the philosophy of adding things to a game by gaming instead of "just" adding a "solution" with a quick money grab.
When "solutions" or "additions" are not designed to enrich the gameplay through gameplay but through direct payment, that's when i know that game and the company is not worth my time.
Everytime i see shop exclusive mounts, clothes, xp boost, i die a little inside my gamers heart. Imagine all the possibilities to get those items with game activity....
I don't mind paying for a game, everyting has a price, but i don't get a "game" for my money. I get items, and that's not what i'm willing ot pay for in a "MMO / Game".
As for the inventory space and the additional exclusive selling of space?
Someone once said it more fitting then i could do: They are selling solutions to problems they created. Personaly i don't care if another player, playss ignorant devils advocate about it, if i find bag space lacking and my only way is to pay directly for it, it's a huge dealbreaker to me, might not be enough to quit but sure will add up over time.
An exclusive bag (item space) sold in the shop is one more missing quest / activity (crafting) for the core game.
Ah, we finally reached the point of this thread.
They give you plenty of space, rivalling any MMO that charges you a monthly fee.
I mean, why doesn't a game like WoW give you 3 extra bag slots to a character of your choice every month? How lazy is charging a monthly fee without giving you nothing in return?
GW2 gives you plenty of functionality out of the box - the extra space is just luxury.
The difference is simple:
In WoW you need to toss $15 a month or you can't play.
In GW2 if you feel comfortable with your inventory space, you pay nothing. If you wish you had more space, you can trade in game money for gems or you can pay $5.
Now, if you feel 100 inventory spaces is lacking, especially when you have the ability to store some items in your bank from everywhere and have the ability to sell in the AH from everywhere, have instant travel, you can send and receive mail from everywhere, well I think you just want to bash.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Wow who gives a crap about inventory space....
Back on topic. In decencding order.
1. Repetitve grind. (korean mmos are good example).
2. Boring quests and poor quest design.
3. Poor player community, quanity and quality.
4. Boring combat.
5. Frustrating game mechnics.
6. Clunky UI.
7. Ugly graphics.
8. Raid centric.
9. Devs don't support the game.
Because that does't fit certain games that sell extra inventory space.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I don´t like item shops either but MMOs needs to earn money one way or the other, as long as said game doesn´t have a monthly fee we will have to live with some stuff will be sold at the marketplace.
What annoys me is the huge number of games that both charges a monthly fee and then sell you all kinds of extra crap. The reason I pay monthly fees is to not suffer stuff like that.
I don´t care if RoM or GW charges for extra bag space, I have played GW over 5 years and never really even considered buying more space and neither games have monthly fees. In those cases it is a once time fee and unless they charge you through your nose you will not pay than more than 15 bucks for it anyways.
Selling stuff like this really only gets annoying when they add them to singleplayer games like Dragon age.
But monthly fee games shouldn´t sell any extra junk, I am paying for all the content you cheap ¤%%& publishers. If you want more money, fine, raise the monthly fees with a buck instead.
No, you should not "compare" to other games if those other games do not have the same ammount of inventory space usage.
Some put questitems in your inventory, others don't.
Some do not have "junk / trash" loot (grey items) at all, they give you money or just crafting materials.
Some don't have 20 variant's of crafting materials (quality) or consumables.
You can't compare 100 spaces with a game full of crafting item quality bloat and trash item drops of 6 variants per mob type, including questitems to a game which does nothing of it and has 100 or just 30 slots.
Yes GW2 isn't a shining beacon in that regard.
1. The devs run out of money and decide to rush the game no matter what the beta testers say.
2. DEVs state that the game will be traditional (That means they rip off another MMO to 99% or so).
3. DEVs bodly states that they intend to steal most or all of Wows subs (What were Barnett thinking?).
4. The game designer reuses the same model over and over and over meaning that the same monster skin is used with different colors over and over. There is just a single robe/cloth armor in different colors or similar really lazy options.
5. Constant issues with login servers and crashes for more than a few days after launch.
I wont play games where you have to think about reallife money ingame. Thats absurd. I want to pay for the game, then enjoy an alternative reality.
More generally, I dont like the idea of having games where people play under different conditions. Pay to win games is nothing I want to tolerate, ever.
I am not interested in twitch games. Give me third person perspective and tab targetting and cooldowns on abilities, or else you wont attract me as a customer.
I am not interested in treadmil gaming (Tetris gaming). If I have to work just to stand in the same spot, I am out.
Not really, no. In the BWE I usually just scrapped all the crap for mats and sent it to the bank but that is a far from perfect system.
ANET could have scrapped all the vendortrash since it really just makes things more boring.
Still, GW2 is far from the worst game in this aspect. Many game fill you up with an incredible amount of trash. Take EQ2 where you can have huge boxes on you but you still fill them up in 10 minutes if you loot all trash that drops.
Just out of curiosity, which other games were you thinking about?
And are you stating that GW2 inventory isn't enough but those other games inventories are enough and you never wish you had more space?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
And you should be careful when replying to someone saying "umm" as if you are going to refute him and end up not doing it. You may have a DDO account, but you have a DDO account in F2P DDO...the game was not released as F2P, the bags you can buy now...were not there when it was a sub based game which is what I said before.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Runes of Magic RENTS bag space...ouch...and they have a lot of updates both free in game and in their shops.
DCU sells inventory expansions, they have been updating the game and shops since going F2P.
LORTO, same
DDO, same
Champions Online sells inventory expansions, updates their game with some free updates, some pay and they continually expand their shops with items.
I havent been keeping up with EQ2 since just after it went F2P but they do sell bags and they "said" they were going to continue updating the game and expanding the shop.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I pretty much avoid spending any money on a game that has a cash shop. I'd rather spend the money on a private server's game.
Do Turbine's games not allow people to subscribe ?
If they do, then they are sub based games and FtP as well.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
If you sub in LOTRO or DDO (or any other F2P game that has a sub option) then you get the full inventory slots.
I really don't understand why this is such an important diversion or why people need to bend over backwards to try and be right. If it's free to play, it's free to play, subscription options aside. I don't think any reasonable person would call DDO/LOTRO/etc "subscription based".
You may try to twist it as you want.
That fact is, that when you design a game based on progression and quests and gear and crafting all of which require inventory spece and then go and limit that inventory on purpose in order to cause an inconveniece to players and incite them to pay to eleviate that inconvenience so you can make a profit.
Then yes, it is the same as my village example.
if you cannot see this. Then wishing you good luck in yoru conformist existance and life.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
This is one of those situations in which you can see a half-full glass or a half-empty glass.
Most games, if not all, have a storage limit, regardless if you can buy additional storage or not.
So one can see it as an incovinience created to make money from or a nice way to solve all those times where you were full (even though most likely you will reach a point where your bags will be full again).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
He explained it in a simple and objective manner. You compared it to the actions of a dastardly villain from a cheesy sci-fi movie.
And he's the one that's twisting things? LOL
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
How many people die in real life as a result of a lack of storage in an MMO ?
Im not the one twisting things here. Seriously you are comparing mass murder to convenience items in a VIDEO GAME.
If you cannot see how there is a difference between real life and death situations and video game features then good luck with your psychosis.
I am curious, what games have unlimited storage ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
You're absolutely right. Free enterprise is the devil. I can't beleive that they would actually sell things that make the game easier. That should automatically be included because it's not nice to make people pay for convenience. You should come join me picketing outside the so-called "convenience" store a couple blocks from my house where they are trying to sell jugs of milk! Can you beleive it?!?!?! If you go and get it straight from the cow, you don't have to give the cow five bucks!!!! Sure, it's bottled and pasteurized and kept cool, but those are just conveniences really. It should automatically be free because people exist and convenience is not something to be profited from.
I heard that there is going to be a meeting downtown where all of us non-conformists can rally about how we deserve everything for free. I hear they may be even giving away free tinfoil hats. F**kin A BUBBA!!! Free cause we deserve it!!!!
I heard a guy say "cool, we can get all these self centered lowlifes in one spot and shoot them all!" and you know what I said? I said "Well YOU will have to buy the bullets, you conformist!!!! Now who's laughing?"
It depends on how it's affected the game i'd say.
If they reduce the inventory space after having found the "optimal" value, it's clearly a cash grab.
If they offer additional space for someone who wants to keep everything he ever finds, why not?
The problem lies within that we usually do not know which way i went, and that the "optimal" value is only optimal for what the developers want to achieve.
Like, in most singleplayer RPGs, there is no cash shop, so they do not artifically limit inventory space so you spend more money. But they limit it for gameplay reasons. So you have to decide what to pick up, what to keep, what to sell, and when to go back etc. Also limits the money you gain.
It's also a matter of designing the UI, especially if items take up a different amount of slots, like in Diablo or Deus Ex. Even if it would mean endless inventory, once you have to scroll, it's too much. Or 200 pages of inventory, same thing. Pointless, most people would prefer a limited inventory so they have a clear notification of when it's too much.
So if they *slightly* (to make many people actually want more space) reduce the space after finding this "optimal" value and/or if they offer additional space beyond, it's okay.
If they say "50 slots is perfect, let's give them 20!" - thats ridiculous.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
FH1942 best tanker for 4years
Playing WWII OL for some years untill now
many other for some months
They don't deserve my money when they can't keep churning out great content; they don't deserve my money when the servers aren't okay or when they refuse to listen to their subscribers or when they implement pay-to-win features.
If a certain company honestly listens to it's customers and shows effort into building everyone's favorite game then I'm much less reluctant to pay them than if it's a triple-A studio which bathes in money and doesn't listen to its playerbase.
Could not have said it better myself!
On topic:
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm so desperate for anything remotely entertaining to play that I'm sort of willing to overlook a slightly shady monetization scheme. I realize that it's not particularly wise in the long-term, but the pickings truly are THAT SLIM.
We're definitely nowhere near an MMO apogee, that's for sure.