Yeah.. going from 200+ servers >> just over 20 servers is a serious exodus.. 10 for 1 trade in? OUCH.. Even Rift didn't drop that bad.... btw.. Rift might have to squeeze out a few more transfers too.. Less people playing there as well.. Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying..
"I was on Vulkar Highway and we never peaked over like 40 people in the republic fleet during the first few months and that was a decently populated server.. there were servers quite smaller than mine.. "
vulkar highway had over 100 people on the fleet at prime time empire side though.eather way,doesnt matter now since vulkar highway was one of the servers that got free transfers off of it
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
eather way,ill be saying swtor is dead when the servers after the merges end up dieing.because honestly? the game shipped with to many servers in the first place,bioware just ended up twiddling there thumbs for 6 months until they decided to actually fix the problem
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
Yes it couldn't be the game sucks, must be the players.
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
Yes it couldn't be the game sucks, must be the players.
because its hard to make a sucky game better when the community would rather whine like babys everyday and quit
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
Alright, Moaky, where did the Sandbox MMOs touch you? Show me on the doll.
BTW EvE online has seen consistant growth since it's release. SWG also had 400k subs at it's peak at a time when 100k was considered large in MMO market.
And let's not forget DayZ, while not an MMO, is a perfect example that people want more player driven games.
Where are all these great themepark MMOs that boast more than 400k subs? WoW? WoW is a beast like none other. SWTOR? I'm gonna laugh when SWTOR drops below EvE onlines numbers.
Of course, it will be hard to drop below anything when it goes F2P
I wont go into great detail since I play this game but...It is the ultimate themepark. these type of games draw PVpers and people who love to do nothing but raids. it has zero anything that allows the journey to have any real meaning when you arrive at the end. you have very limited option on how you can look where you can go and how you do it.
It offer's you a ship at level 15 that does nothing at all. you can't have friends on it, you can't find a single reason to call it home at all. it's dead and your companions are mannequins in a window that don't walk around.
you when you sit through a few loading screens and a cinematic just to get in the ship.
it's a dead instance with you standing in it wondering why the heck they even gave it to you since it does nothing but shuffle you to point a-b
I'm not sure how much longer i can tolerate the deadness of the journey thats choking my will to keep subbing.the only part that makes it worth something is the class story. and even that sometimes can irk you with the limited options and pointless outcomes you get for all the hours of grinding to reach the final chapter.
It has no space combat, no bounty hunting players, smugglers can't smuggle. the crafting is getting better but it's just reallly there for comps you wanna gear up. I hate PVP so. not much to say about that since I hate PVP in any MMO.
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
Yes it couldn't be the game sucks, must be the players.
because its hard to make a sucky game better when the community would rather whine like babys everyday and quit
The "community" of SWTOR are a small fraction of the communty they could have had, if they hod not decided to turn SWTOR into a gear treadmill.
Star Wars and WOW cloning do not mix, it didn't work during the NGE it didn't work this time.
There is a group of people who continue to blame the Star Wars fan base for this, NGE developers, SWTOR developers and EA execs, and die hard Bioware fans. But Star Wars cannot exist as a gear grind themepark two faction linear 20 man dungeon hop.
Look I'm as disappointed in this game as the next guy, but this idea that companies cant merge servers is juvenile. They should have done it months ago.
The real conversations that need to be had about this game is why it isn't more successful, and how can we convince investors that this kind of drivel isn't appreciated.
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
What the heck are you talking about?
This is one of the myths that is just so wrong. Minecraft is a sandbox and has millions of players, and took only a small fraction of the resources compared to TOR. EA WISHES they had the success of Minecraft.
Then we have EVE, everyone knows about EVE.
Oh wait, what about Runescape? Lol, everyone forgets about RS. RS was made in some kid's basement, and look where it is now. One of the biggest, if not, the biggest FTP sandbox MMO's of all time.
Then again Im not surprised this is coming from someone's sig that says "Sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry"
Well, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But my opinion is more along the lines of, "Themepark games are less exciting than watching paint dry."
I nodded off in a World of Warcraft BG. Not very exciting when there is no penality for death. Not much meaning. Yes?
Originally posted by Moaky07 Originally posted by azmundai So what.Look I'm as disappointed in this game as the next guy, but this idea that companies cant merge servers is juvenile. They should have done it months ago.The real conversations that need to be had about this game is why it isn't more successful, and how can we convince investors that this kind of drivel isn't appreciated.
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
What the heck are you talking about?
This is one of the myths that is just so wrong. Minecraft is a sandbox and has millions of players, and took only a small fraction of the resources compared to TOR. EA WISHES they had the success of Minecraft.
Then we have EVE, everyone knows about EVE.
Oh wait, what about Runescape? Lol, everyone forgets about RS. RS was made in some kid's basement, and look where it is now. One of the biggest, if not, the biggest FTP sandbox MMO's of all time.
Then again Im not surprised this is coming from someone's sig that says "Sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry"
Well, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But my opinion is more along the lines of, "Themepark games are less exciting than watching paint dry."
I nodded off in a World of Warcraft BG. Not very exciting when there is no penality for death. Not much meaning. Yes?
Minecraft isn't a sandbox MMO, it just has a feel to it that people who like sandbox MMO's like. And you might have fallen asleep in WoW, but there's no denying that the MMORPG that has dwarfed all others for years with 10+ million people playing it month after month, is a pure themepark MMORPG with sub fee. That's saying enough of the appeal that a good themepark MMO can have. Other themepark MMO's have done less good, but still reached nice sales and good player numbers for a longer period of time, and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
Yes it couldn't be the game sucks, must be the players.
because its hard to make a sucky game better when the community would rather whine like babys everyday and quit
Yes "quitters and whinners" should be forced to play SWTOR.
Maybe the Russian prison system will pick the game up and use it for corrective training for their inmates. That would make the player population grow at least x10.
Look I'm as disappointed in this game as the next guy, but this idea that companies cant merge servers is juvenile. They should have done it months ago.
The real conversations that need to be had about this game is why it isn't more successful, and how can we convince investors that this kind of drivel isn't appreciated.
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
Moaky, I think we get it by now. You don't like sandbox games.
Obviously, you have neither the patience for nor understanding of those types of games, so there's really no need for you to even comment on them.
There probably are many more "themepark gamers," but that doesn't mean squat. There are more than enough "sandbox gamers" out there. We hide in the shadows, in numbers, awaiting our next SWG. So "point n laugh" all you want. You won't hurt our feelings...
TOR is a good game, I don't see what all the hate surrounding it is - does the WOW player base really feel so drawn to trolling in the TOR forums slamming the superior title?
TOR is a good game, I don't see what all the hate surrounding it is - does the WOW player base really feel so drawn to trolling in the TOR forums slamming the superior title?
thats funny because i believe most of the dissapointment is that we wanted something more than wow in space.
tired of wow after so many years.
if you like it, good for you.
i think alot of us swg players dislike tor because we lost a game we enjoyed for this themepark thats so shallow you cannot even swim.
TOR is a good game, I don't see what all the hate surrounding it is - does the WOW player base really feel so drawn to trolling in the TOR forums slamming the superior title?
thats funny because i believe most of the dissapointment is that we wanted something more than wow in space.
tired of wow after so many years.
if you like it, good for you.
i think alot of us swg players dislike tor because we lost a game we enjoyed for this themepark thats so shallow you cannot even swim.
Agreed.
I dislike SWTOR because I got tired of WOW.
I'd like to see developers of "next-gen" MMOs really try to tell more interesting stories or at least expand upon either of "Ms" in MMORPG.
BioWare would've done better by the fan base by just making an Old Republic game using some of the story telling advances they've learned from ME2 & ME3.
Rather than trying to stick a basic quest hub MMO frame over a pretty generic version of BioWare's general story telling mechanics.
Look I'm as disappointed in this game as the next guy, but this idea that companies cant merge servers is juvenile. They should have done it months ago.
The real conversations that need to be had about this game is why it isn't more successful, and how can we convince investors that this kind of drivel isn't appreciated.
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
What the heck are you talking about?
This is one of the myths that is just so wrong. Minecraft is a sandbox and has millions of players, and took only a small fraction of the resources compared to TOR. EA WISHES they had the success of Minecraft.
Then we have EVE, everyone knows about EVE.
Oh wait, what about Runescape? Lol, everyone forgets about RS. RS was made in some kid's basement, and look where it is now. One of the biggest, if not, the biggest FTP sandbox MMO's of all time.
Then again Im not surprised this is coming from someone's sig that says "Sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry"
Well, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But my opinion is more along the lines of, "Themepark games are less exciting than watching paint dry."
I nodded off in a World of Warcraft BG. Not very exciting when there is no penality for death. Not much meaning. Yes?
Minecraft isn't a sandbox MMO, it just has a feel to it that people who like sandbox MMO's like. And you might have fallen asleep in WoW, but there's no denying that the MMORPG that has dwarfed all others for years with 10+ million people playing it month after month, is a pure themepark MMORPG with sub fee. That's saying enough of the appeal that a good themepark MMO can have. Other themepark MMO's have done less good, but still reached nice sales and good player numbers for a longer period of time, and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?
Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft
A) Has no on-rails gameplay
Fosters creativity
C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play
D) No classes and pre defined roles
How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???
Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?
Crickets...chirp chirp.
Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!
WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.
and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
lol.
I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"
You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?
It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.
What about AoC?
It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.
What about RIFT?
It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.
What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?
Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.
And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.
The developers and, to a greater extent, the publishers are steadily working this into a situation where they get to have their cake and eat it, too. It seems to me that this whole genre is steadily moving toward the "standard" of being forced online single-player games with an on-going revenue model.
Looking at the current crop of MMOs and comparing it to earlier MMOs, even including those that came out earlier in the "WoW Era", fewer and fewer developers are even trying to make them massive anymore.
The genre's being streamlined, simplified and wittled down into a lean, mean, money-generating machine that barely resembles its roots anymore. It's happening right under people's noses, and those same people are eating it up.
While I agree 100% with your observations, I do disagree that people are eating it up. I believe a lot of this intolerance that is supposedly unique to MMO players is that video game customers, in general, are getting tired of the constant spawn of shit that is coming from these companies now a days and expecting players to pay a premium for it. Almost the entire industry is seething with self-love, inflated egos, drenched in conceit and stinking of piss-poor customer treatment and exploitation. EA and Activision being the kings of it, but it is spreading to other companies in the industry. They have lost their way at providing quality for the entertainment dollar (and this is something that EA has especially lost site of).
Plain and simple, players are getting tired of the abuse and treated like they are a bunch of four year olds that will blindly follow and idolize game developers and now they are pushing back in mass and pushing back hard. The industry better wake up soon because it is all too common an occurance now and they (the game companies) have brought it on themselves.
I think part of the attraction of GW2 is more ArenaNet seeming like a company that actually wants to deliver entertainment value to customers rather than see them as simply another cash tree to pluck clean.
Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?
Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft
A) Has no on-rails gameplay
Fosters creativity
C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play
D) No classes and pre defined roles
How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???
Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?
Crickets...chirp chirp.
Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!
WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.
and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
lol.
I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"
You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?
It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.
What about AoC?
It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.
What about RIFT?
It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.
What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?
Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.
And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.
I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".
We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.
Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.
Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.
You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.
Originally posted by Ghost12 Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. MinecraftA) Has no on-rails gameplay Fosters creativityC) Nurtures an in-game community and social playD) No classes and pre defined rolesHow is Minecraft not a sandbox again???Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?Crickets...chirp chirp.Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time. lol.I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.What about AoC?It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.What about RIFT?It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.
I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".
We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.
Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.
Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.
You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.
Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.
Updated on the 18th. This list is probably the finalized version for all the servers that are undergoing the server transfer service. Asia Pacific servers are not part of the server transfer since they had one of each server type available already.
Asia Pacific Servers: 3
1 PVP 1 PVE 1 RP-PVE
European Servers (French): 3
1 PVP 1 PVE 1 RP-PVE
European Servers (English): 4
1 PVP 2 PVE 1 RP-PVE
European Servers (German): 4
1 PVP 2 PVE 1 RP-PVE
NA Servers West: 4.5
1 PVP 2 PVE 0.5 RP-PVP 1 RP-PVE
NA Servers East: 7.5
2 PVP 4 PVE 0.5 RP-PVP 1 RP-PVE
Note: It seems both the RP-PVP for NA East and West are being consolidated into 1, hence why I gave it a 0.5 for each.
The grand total of servers is 26 down from 216. This is probably due in anticipation when the actual server merges happen. They have literally "almost" hit rock bottom with the number of servers. If you reduced each server type down to 1 for each region you would be left with 20 servers. You can't go lower than this unless you consolidate the NA servers further. The fact that they reached this point of "potentially" reducing their servers by 88% in 6 months is... well I'm speechless.
Originally posted by smh_alotWell, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.
And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"
Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes
And GW2 is not really a themepark either, neither it follows EQ/WoW recipe.
Originally posted by smh_alotWell, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable. On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.
And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"
Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes
It's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.>
Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.
I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-
And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.
Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?
Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft
A) Has no on-rails gameplay
Fosters creativity
C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play
D) No classes and pre defined roles
How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???
Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?
Crickets...chirp chirp.
Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!
WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.
and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
lol.
I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"
You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?
It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.
What about AoC?
It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.
What about RIFT?
It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.
What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?
Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.
And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.
I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".
We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.
Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.
Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.
You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.
Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.
*Facepalm*
So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?
Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)
Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.
EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.
Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.
WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (We're going to make it about RVR PvP, but make the gameplay slow and boring. We'll keep it to two realms cause one realm wont become overpopulated. Right. Right?)
AOC (We're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game,But wait, lets make it a themepark at last minute cause themeparks are successful. That wont make the player population angry, will it? I mean, the players didnt get angry when SOE changed stuff up, right?)
RIFT (Copy/Paste WoW with multi classes will be a surefire hit! Errr.... )
The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.
It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are that gullible )
Comments
I like what you did there
Yeah.. going from 200+ servers >> just over 20 servers is a serious exodus.. 10 for 1 trade in? OUCH.. Even Rift didn't drop that bad.... btw.. Rift might have to squeeze out a few more transfers too.. Less people playing there as well.. Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying..
"I was on Vulkar Highway and we never peaked over like 40 people in the republic fleet during the first few months and that was a decently populated server.. there were servers quite smaller than mine.. "
vulkar highway had over 100 people on the fleet at prime time empire side though.eather way,doesnt matter now since vulkar highway was one of the servers that got free transfers off of it
"Maybe these devs need to stop following the WoW end game gear grind.. Just saying.."
cant really blame the company when thats what the community wanted.i put more blame on swtor tanking because of the community of the game then i do bioware
eather way,ill be saying swtor is dead when the servers after the merges end up dieing.because honestly? the game shipped with to many servers in the first place,bioware just ended up twiddling there thumbs for 6 months until they decided to actually fix the problem
Yes it couldn't be the game sucks, must be the players.
because its hard to make a sucky game better when the community would rather whine like babys everyday and quit
Alright, Moaky, where did the Sandbox MMOs touch you? Show me on the doll.
BTW EvE online has seen consistant growth since it's release. SWG also had 400k subs at it's peak at a time when 100k was considered large in MMO market.
And let's not forget DayZ, while not an MMO, is a perfect example that people want more player driven games.
Where are all these great themepark MMOs that boast more than 400k subs? WoW? WoW is a beast like none other. SWTOR? I'm gonna laugh when SWTOR drops below EvE onlines numbers.
Of course, it will be hard to drop below anything when it goes F2P
Wait!!!!!! GW2 doesnt have subscription pla..........OOOoooOOOWwwwww
I wont go into great detail since I play this game but...It is the ultimate themepark. these type of games draw PVpers and people who love to do nothing but raids. it has zero anything that allows the journey to have any real meaning when you arrive at the end. you have very limited option on how you can look where you can go and how you do it.
It offer's you a ship at level 15 that does nothing at all. you can't have friends on it, you can't find a single reason to call it home at all. it's dead and your companions are mannequins in a window that don't walk around.
you when you sit through a few loading screens and a cinematic just to get in the ship.
it's a dead instance with you standing in it wondering why the heck they even gave it to you since it does nothing but shuffle you to point a-b
I'm not sure how much longer i can tolerate the deadness of the journey thats choking my will to keep subbing.the only part that makes it worth something is the class story. and even that sometimes can irk you with the limited options and pointless outcomes you get for all the hours of grinding to reach the final chapter.
It has no space combat, no bounty hunting players, smugglers can't smuggle. the crafting is getting better but it's just reallly there for comps you wanna gear up. I hate PVP so. not much to say about that since I hate PVP in any MMO.
The "community" of SWTOR are a small fraction of the communty they could have had, if they hod not decided to turn SWTOR into a gear treadmill.
Star Wars and WOW cloning do not mix, it didn't work during the NGE it didn't work this time.
There is a group of people who continue to blame the Star Wars fan base for this, NGE developers, SWTOR developers and EA execs, and die hard Bioware fans. But Star Wars cannot exist as a gear grind themepark two faction linear 20 man dungeon hop.
What the heck are you talking about?
This is one of the myths that is just so wrong. Minecraft is a sandbox and has millions of players, and took only a small fraction of the resources compared to TOR. EA WISHES they had the success of Minecraft.
Then we have EVE, everyone knows about EVE.
Oh wait, what about Runescape? Lol, everyone forgets about RS. RS was made in some kid's basement, and look where it is now. One of the biggest, if not, the biggest FTP sandbox MMO's of all time.
Then again Im not surprised this is coming from someone's sig that says "Sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry"
Well, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But my opinion is more along the lines of, "Themepark games are less exciting than watching paint dry."
I nodded off in a World of Warcraft BG. Not very exciting when there is no penality for death. Not much meaning. Yes?
A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.
If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.
What the heck are you talking about?
This is one of the myths that is just so wrong. Minecraft is a sandbox and has millions of players, and took only a small fraction of the resources compared to TOR. EA WISHES they had the success of Minecraft.
Then we have EVE, everyone knows about EVE.
Oh wait, what about Runescape? Lol, everyone forgets about RS. RS was made in some kid's basement, and look where it is now. One of the biggest, if not, the biggest FTP sandbox MMO's of all time.
Then again Im not surprised this is coming from someone's sig that says "Sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry"
Well, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. But my opinion is more along the lines of, "Themepark games are less exciting than watching paint dry."
I nodded off in a World of Warcraft BG. Not very exciting when there is no penality for death. Not much meaning. Yes?
Minecraft isn't a sandbox MMO, it just has a feel to it that people who like sandbox MMO's like. And you might have fallen asleep in WoW, but there's no denying that the MMORPG that has dwarfed all others for years with 10+ million people playing it month after month, is a pure themepark MMORPG with sub fee. That's saying enough of the appeal that a good themepark MMO can have. Other themepark MMO's have done less good, but still reached nice sales and good player numbers for a longer period of time, and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
Yes "quitters and whinners" should be forced to play SWTOR.
Maybe the Russian prison system will pick the game up and use it for corrective training for their inmates. That would make the player population grow at least x10.
Moaky, I think we get it by now. You don't like sandbox games.
Obviously, you have neither the patience for nor understanding of those types of games, so there's really no need for you to even comment on them.
There probably are many more "themepark gamers," but that doesn't mean squat. There are more than enough "sandbox gamers" out there. We hide in the shadows, in numbers, awaiting our next SWG. So "point n laugh" all you want. You won't hurt our feelings...
TOR is a good game, I don't see what all the hate surrounding it is - does the WOW player base really feel so drawn to trolling in the TOR forums slamming the superior title?
thats funny because i believe most of the dissapointment is that we wanted something more than wow in space.
tired of wow after so many years.
if you like it, good for you.
i think alot of us swg players dislike tor because we lost a game we enjoyed for this themepark thats so shallow you cannot even swim.
Agreed.
I dislike SWTOR because I got tired of WOW.
I'd like to see developers of "next-gen" MMOs really try to tell more interesting stories or at least expand upon either of "Ms" in MMORPG.
BioWare would've done better by the fan base by just making an Old Republic game using some of the story telling advances they've learned from ME2 & ME3.
Rather than trying to stick a basic quest hub MMO frame over a pretty generic version of BioWare's general story telling mechanics.
It was an okay game, but a sub-par MMO.
a yo ho ho
Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?
Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft
A) Has no on-rails gameplay
C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play
D) No classes and pre defined roles
How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???
Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?
Crickets...chirp chirp.
Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!
WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.
and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.
lol.
I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"
You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?
It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.
What about AoC?
It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.
What about RIFT?
It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.
What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?
Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.
And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?
The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.
The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.
While I agree 100% with your observations, I do disagree that people are eating it up. I believe a lot of this intolerance that is supposedly unique to MMO players is that video game customers, in general, are getting tired of the constant spawn of shit that is coming from these companies now a days and expecting players to pay a premium for it. Almost the entire industry is seething with self-love, inflated egos, drenched in conceit and stinking of piss-poor customer treatment and exploitation. EA and Activision being the kings of it, but it is spreading to other companies in the industry. They have lost their way at providing quality for the entertainment dollar (and this is something that EA has especially lost site of).
Plain and simple, players are getting tired of the abuse and treated like they are a bunch of four year olds that will blindly follow and idolize game developers and now they are pushing back in mass and pushing back hard. The industry better wake up soon because it is all too common an occurance now and they (the game companies) have brought it on themselves.
I think part of the attraction of GW2 is more ArenaNet seeming like a company that actually wants to deliver entertainment value to customers rather than see them as simply another cash tree to pluck clean.
I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".
We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.
Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.
Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.
You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.
I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".
We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.
Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.
Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.
You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.
Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable. On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG. Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=477706
or
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=479470
Updated on the 18th. This list is probably the finalized version for all the servers that are undergoing the server transfer service. Asia Pacific servers are not part of the server transfer since they had one of each server type available already.
Asia Pacific Servers: 3
1 PVP
1 PVE
1 RP-PVE
European Servers (French): 3
1 PVP
1 PVE
1 RP-PVE
European Servers (English): 4
1 PVP
2 PVE
1 RP-PVE
European Servers (German): 4
1 PVP
2 PVE
1 RP-PVE
NA Servers West: 4.5
1 PVP
2 PVE
0.5 RP-PVP
1 RP-PVE
NA Servers East: 7.5
2 PVP
4 PVE
0.5 RP-PVP
1 RP-PVE
Note: It seems both the RP-PVP for NA East and West are being consolidated into 1, hence why I gave it a 0.5 for each.
The grand total of servers is 26 down from 216. This is probably due in anticipation when the actual server merges happen. They have literally "almost" hit rock bottom with the number of servers. If you reduced each server type down to 1 for each region you would be left with 20 servers. You can't go lower than this unless you consolidate the NA servers further. The fact that they reached this point of "potentially" reducing their servers by 88% in 6 months is... well I'm speechless.
And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"
Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes
And GW2 is not really a themepark either, neither it follows EQ/WoW recipe.
And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"
Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes
It's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.> Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.
I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-
And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.*Facepalm*
So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?
Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)
Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.
EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.
Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.
WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (We're going to make it about RVR PvP, but make the gameplay slow and boring. We'll keep it to two realms cause one realm wont become overpopulated. Right. Right?)
AOC (We're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, But wait, lets make it a themepark at last minute cause themeparks are successful. That wont make the player population angry, will it? I mean, the players didnt get angry when SOE changed stuff up, right?)
RIFT (Copy/Paste WoW with multi classes will be a surefire hit! Errr.... )
The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.
It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are that gullible
)