Originally posted by smh_alotIt's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.>
Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.
I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-
And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.
1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.
2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.
3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.
4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.
Difference betweeen WoW and SWTOR is that WoW actually gained subscribers in 5-6 months and had to open up new servers, SWTOR started with tons of servers with expectations of gaining lots more subs than what they had at launch but at 5-6 months, population declined big time and will continue to decline even after the merges.
After the summer season is over and everyone's back to school the heavy populated servers will show signs of decline, right now on Prophecy of the Five there are 3 instances of fleet on both sides, 60-80 people in Black Hole and Belsavis, around 4 or 5 warzones happening at a time in each bracket but comes Sept all that will get cut in half.
*Facepalm*So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG. Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (ITS LIKE WOW EXCEPT THE FOCUS IS ON RVR OMG!! TOO BAD THE RVR WAS MEAININGLESS AND BORING!)AOC (OMG, we're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, (BUT WAIT, LETS MAKE IT A THEMEPARK AT LAST MINUTE CUZ THEMEPARKS ARE SUCCESFUL. THAT WONT MAKE THE PLAYER POPLUATION ANGRY, WILL IT? jUST ASK SOE WITH SWG?)RIFT (OMG MULTI CLASSES!!!111 TOO BAD ITS BORING!! been there done this?) The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are gullible )
Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.
If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.
That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.
Originally posted by smh_alotIt's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.> Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2. I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.
1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.
2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.
3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.
4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.
Aion was and is successful worldwide, some people look beyond their own little garden. If an MMORPG manages to achieve 200+ million dollars in revenues each year, that's a measure of success. And yes, GW2 is a themepark MMO, because you seem to despise WoWesque themepark MMO's with a passion and dote on GW2 doesn't mean it's any less a themepark MMO. GW2 is obviously not a sandbox MMO, it's not even a hybrid sandbox/themepark MMO as AA seems to be. It has all the traits of a themepark MMO, without being a WoW copy. Not all sandbox MMO's are exactly like UO (EVE for example), and not all themepark MMO's are exactly like WoW. Don't see what's so hard to understand about that, most people on this forum seem to be able to grasp that concept >.>
Originally posted by smh_alotSigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.
If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.
That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.
Name 1 AAA post WoW sandbox MMO that has failed as hard as all themepark WoW clones did.
And again you fail to grasp what is themepark and what is sanbox.
And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.
They didn't have a target audience for this game. This was clear from all the interviews being done during beta as well as all the marketing that went on. One day they say they will cater to casual, the next it's all about the hardcore... there was talk of Star Wars fans, MMORPG fans, single player BW fans, etcetera. If you try to cater to everbody, you end up pleasing nobody.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
@Mikarh: Lol. I bet I've been a fan of ANet and GW a lot longer than you and been in the MMO genre since the beginning. I'm well aware what GW2 offers and what not, and no, it's not a sandbox MMO and not a hybrid. If you try to sell that GW2 is some themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO merely for the simple reason that you like what GW2 offers, then I'm going to cut this discussion short. Heck, even most of the staunchest GW2 fans are aware that GW2 isn't a sandbox nor a hybrid but a themepark MMO. Only not a WoW clone type of themepark, but more of a next-gen themepark MMO.
Anyway, this discussion is useless. If you need to believe that GW2 is partly a sandbox MMO, feel free to do so. No sense in continuing this -_-
They didn't have a target audience for this game. This was clear from all the interviews being done during beta as well as all the marketing that went on. One day they say they will cater to casual, the next it's all about the hardcore... there was talk of Star Wars fans, MMORPG fans, single player BW fans, etcetera. If you try to cater to everbody, you end up pleasing nobody.
there target audience was the wow community i thought.which,go figure why the game ended up flopping 6 months after release.considering just how great and mature the wow community is
And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.
Lol
Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.
Lol
Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.
Maybe its not sanbox elements YOU want, or whatever people think you are talking about. But ANet took a good lesson from sandbox games, something few people fail to grasp.
Originally posted by smh_alot @Mikarh: Lol. I bet I've been a fan of ANet and GW a lot longer than you and been in the MMO genre since the beginning. I'm well aware what GW2 offers and what not, and no, it's not a sandbox MMO and not a hybrid. If you try to sell that GW2 is some themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO merely for the simple reason that you like what GW2 offers, then I'm going to cut this discussion short. Heck, even most of the staunchest GW2 fans are aware that GW2 isn't a sandbox nor a hybrid but a themepark MMO. Only not a WoW clone type of themepark, but more of a next-gen themepark MMO.
Anyway, this discussion is useless. If you need to believe that GW2 is partly a sandbox MMO, feel free to do so. No sense in continuing this -_-
And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.
Lol
Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.
Maybe its not sanbox elements YOU want, or whatever people think you are talking about. But ANet took a good lesson from sandbox games, something few people fail to grasp.
I'm actually really looking forward to the game. I just think saying GW2 has "lot of sandbox elements" is a ridiculous assertion.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?
Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)
Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.
EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.
Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.
WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.
On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.
Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (ITS LIKE WOW EXCEPT THE FOCUS IS ON RVR OMG!! TOO BAD THE RVR WAS MEAININGLESS AND BORING!)
AOC (OMG, we're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, (BUT WAIT, LETS MAKE IT A THEMEPARK AT LAST MINUTE CUZ THEMEPARKS ARE SUCCESFUL. THAT WONT MAKE THE PLAYER POPLUATION ANGRY, WILL IT? jUST ASK SOE WITH SWG?)
RIFT (OMG MULTI CLASSES!!!111 TOO BAD ITS BORING!! been there done this?)
The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.
It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are gullible )
Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.
If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.
That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.
Lol.
MINECRAFT ISNT AN MMO?
THEN WHAT IS TOR?
I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's.
WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues.
And other sandboxes have had hundreds of thousands of subs/players and dozens of millions of revenues. Wow IS AN ANOMLY, because no other MMO has ever, ever reached the subscription base of WoW, not even close, and not have matched the revenues of WoW. Just by you comparing WoW to other themeparks is ridiculous and destroys your credibility, as WoW's revenues are leagues higher than that of precious Aion, TOR, etc.
You are failing to recognize key points that both me and others have mentioned before.
I think that GW2 will be moderately successful. I think it will have a big marketed publicized launch. And, much like TOR, the hype will fizzle out and the population will drop. I am confident in my predictions because nearly every other themepark MMO had the exact same result. What are you basing your predictions on?
Emotion. Bias.
Themepark hasnt been shown to be the most successful style. Its just been the most used style.
These themeparks that you talk about selling in the millions, are only selling in the millions because 90% of the market is filled with them and players dont have much of a choice. Its either themepark or go home.
The ultimate irony of all of this, is that you are arguing Themeparks are the most successful when TOR the biggest hyped themepark of them all just lost over 80% of its servers. Even I'm astonished. How can you possibly still argue that is beyond me.
I'm actually really looking forward to the game. I just think saying GW2 has "lot of sandbox elements" is a ridiculous assertion.
You are entitled to thimk what you want. Calling GW2 themepark or sandbox is ridiculous because it blends elements of both.
Guys from ANet are smarther than what you give them credit for. My only hope is they will stick to original plan as its a solid one, their ideas and solutions are on the right track and some of them will probably be copied in other MMOs.
Topic is failure of SWTOR and shrinkage to almost minimun number of servers to retain server types. If people want to disband it as a proof, theres really not much to discuss.
WoW is an exeption, SWTOR is rule and ultimate proof (as all other games werent proof enough of what will happen).
Man, this site is starting to get boring, topics are predictable, even haters (or 'critics') become repetitive and boringly lame, I guess they're bored out of their mind too.
Time to find other MMO and gaming sites with some more spark to it, only where? Hmm.
If you find one let me know so many hypocrits one here its kind of annoying. Plague to the gaming community, I'll say it before and I will say it again they dont make gamers like they used to this new breed they have no imagination to make things work have to be spoon fed everything. I just needed a joystick and 1 button and I was good to go. Now they need all this fluff to have fun instead of making there own fun in game and making it happen.
Online Sandbox games give players a world with resources, beasts and an environment to create their own content, society and gameplay.
GW2 to my knowledge does not let players build structures, set up or claim plots and maintain harvesters, build societies or in any way change the game like a true sandbox.
Dynamic quests and pvp does not qualify it as a sandbox by any stretch of the imagination, or a hybrid.
Online Sandbox games give players a world with resources, beasts and an environment to create their own content, society and gameplay.
GW2 to my knowledge does not let players build structures, set up or claim plots and maintain harvesters, build societies or in any way change the game like a true sandbox.
Dynamic quests and pvp does not qualify it as a sandbox by any stretch of the imagination, or a hybrid.
Of course its not sandbox, even less holy "true sandbox". Cookie?
Its a hybrid, and if devs continue with their ideas it will be pretty good one.
If youre looking for holy "true sandbox", yah, you might skip it. Just as if you want holy "true themepark" (although whines already started on both end of spectrum, which is quite funny)
I see the server merges as just the beginning to block the financial blood cut wound from spurting out anymore. I would not be surprised if a F2P announcement is made in the near future to try and save more monetary leakage and to run as cheaply as possible to recover or gain some stability, as well as bring in more masses to populate the servers.
I predict two things, either:
-A) Dramatic shift towards F2P in 3 to 6 months for the entire game.
Or
-B) Dramatic change of gameplay similar to SWG's NGE in order to shift in newer blood to the product to recover developement costs.
Either way, I really don't see a return in SWTOR's subscriber base. They realized what the rest of us have been saying for months now. The problem is that it took them so long to realize it .
Guessing a F2P system along LotRo and DDO model and that will be tied with a "relaunch" that will make all light servers disappear magically.
Pretty sure we're going to see payed DLC along this
IMHO not a bad thing though as it would mean more players and more content: clicky
I know this forum needs to get their daily dose of hating SWTOR in, but let me provide some facts from someone who actually plays this game rather than just trolls forums:
Yes, there are far fewer servers than there was at launch. However, last night there was also far more players on my new server (Prophecy of the Five) than there was on any single server at launch, approximately 500 people on the Republic Fleet and 900 people on the Imperial Fleet. No single server came close to this at launch. Obviously server caps are far higher than they were at launch.
With that being said, let the hating resume.
Yeah BW has stated that they were going to drasctically increase the cap on the servers...I don't think any actual amount was given but still 10 servers going into 1 does not mean 10% of the people playing because that one server could hold several times as many people. Not to say there isn't a issue with people leaving just don't turn the numbers into something they are not. With how much instanced material there is and BW not going to cross-server lfg tool creating less high pop "mega servers" is I believe a very good move on their part.
I do still believe however the gaming is headed for a slow death until it moves to f2p.
I knew this was going to happen, and I don't doubt it will happen with GW2 (unless it's a huge success, which I hope it is). This has happened with every AAA mmo that has come out since WoW (that I've played).
I think they need to figure out a way to have all players in one world without the need to make separate instances for zones. Then again, launch day would be insanely over crowded.
Online Sandbox games give players a world with resources, beasts and an environment to create their own content, society and gameplay.
GW2 to my knowledge does not let players build structures, set up or claim plots and maintain harvesters, build societies or in any way change the game like a true sandbox.
Dynamic quests and pvp does not qualify it as a sandbox by any stretch of the imagination, or a hybrid.
Of course its not sandbox, even less holy "true sandbox". Cookie?
Its a hybrid, and if devs continue with their ideas it will be pretty good one.
If youre looking for holy "true sandbox", yah, you might skip it. Just as if you want holy "true themepark" (although whines already started on both end of spectrum, which is quite funny)
30 servers is still alot considering how aweful the game is.
Yes, but it's still better than the 25 servers SWG had for eight straight years, especially the first years when 250k subscribers were considered a global hit.
Of course its not sandbox, even less holy "true sandbox". Cookie?
Its a hybrid, and if devs continue with their ideas it will be pretty good one.
If youre looking for holy "true sandbox", yah, you might skip it. Just as if you want holy "true themepark" (although whines already started on both end of spectrum, which is quite funny)
Please enlighten us on how GW2 is a "hybrid."
I know this game is the holy of holies right now but to call it a hybrid is quite a stretch.
Comments
1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.
2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.
3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.
4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.
Difference betweeen WoW and SWTOR is that WoW actually gained subscribers in 5-6 months and had to open up new servers, SWTOR started with tons of servers with expectations of gaining lots more subs than what they had at launch but at 5-6 months, population declined big time and will continue to decline even after the merges.
After the summer season is over and everyone's back to school the heavy populated servers will show signs of decline, right now on Prophecy of the Five there are 3 instances of fleet on both sides, 60-80 people in Black Hole and Belsavis, around 4 or 5 warzones happening at a time in each bracket but comes Sept all that will get cut in half.
Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.
If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.
That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.
2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.
3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.
4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.
Aion was and is successful worldwide, some people look beyond their own little garden. If an MMORPG manages to achieve 200+ million dollars in revenues each year, that's a measure of success. And yes, GW2 is a themepark MMO, because you seem to despise WoWesque themepark MMO's with a passion and dote on GW2 doesn't mean it's any less a themepark MMO. GW2 is obviously not a sandbox MMO, it's not even a hybrid sandbox/themepark MMO as AA seems to be. It has all the traits of a themepark MMO, without being a WoW copy. Not all sandbox MMO's are exactly like UO (EVE for example), and not all themepark MMO's are exactly like WoW. Don't see what's so hard to understand about that, most people on this forum seem to be able to grasp that concept >.>Name 1 AAA post WoW sandbox MMO that has failed as hard as all themepark WoW clones did.
And again you fail to grasp what is themepark and what is sanbox.
And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.
They didn't have a target audience for this game. This was clear from all the interviews being done during beta as well as all the marketing that went on. One day they say they will cater to casual, the next it's all about the hardcore... there was talk of Star Wars fans, MMORPG fans, single player BW fans, etcetera. If you try to cater to everbody, you end up pleasing nobody.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Anyway, this discussion is useless. If you need to believe that GW2 is partly a sandbox MMO, feel free to do so. No sense in continuing this -_-there target audience was the wow community i thought.which,go figure why the game ended up flopping 6 months after release.considering just how great and mature the wow community is
Lol
Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Maybe its not sanbox elements YOU want, or whatever people think you are talking about. But ANet took a good lesson from sandbox games, something few people fail to grasp.
Rightio, Bye.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Lol.
MINECRAFT ISNT AN MMO?
THEN WHAT IS TOR?
I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's.
WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues.
And other sandboxes have had hundreds of thousands of subs/players and dozens of millions of revenues. Wow IS AN ANOMLY, because no other MMO has ever, ever reached the subscription base of WoW, not even close, and not have matched the revenues of WoW. Just by you comparing WoW to other themeparks is ridiculous and destroys your credibility, as WoW's revenues are leagues higher than that of precious Aion, TOR, etc.
You are failing to recognize key points that both me and others have mentioned before.
I think that GW2 will be moderately successful. I think it will have a big marketed publicized launch. And, much like TOR, the hype will fizzle out and the population will drop. I am confident in my predictions because nearly every other themepark MMO had the exact same result. What are you basing your predictions on?
Emotion. Bias.
Themepark hasnt been shown to be the most successful style. Its just been the most used style.
These themeparks that you talk about selling in the millions, are only selling in the millions because 90% of the market is filled with them and players dont have much of a choice. Its either themepark or go home.
The ultimate irony of all of this, is that you are arguing Themeparks are the most successful when TOR the biggest hyped themepark of them all just lost over 80% of its servers. Even I'm astonished. How can you possibly still argue that is beyond me.
WoW is the most successful.
Themeparks are NOT.
Or ...
Mega-server that was mentioned ?
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/24/swtor-devs-hint-at-mega-servers
You are entitled to thimk what you want. Calling GW2 themepark or sandbox is ridiculous because it blends elements of both.
Guys from ANet are smarther than what you give them credit for. My only hope is they will stick to original plan as its a solid one, their ideas and solutions are on the right track and some of them will probably be copied in other MMOs.
Topic is failure of SWTOR and shrinkage to almost minimun number of servers to retain server types. If people want to disband it as a proof, theres really not much to discuss.
WoW is an exeption, SWTOR is rule and ultimate proof (as all other games werent proof enough of what will happen).
If you find one let me know so many hypocrits one here its kind of annoying. Plague to the gaming community, I'll say it before and I will say it again they dont make gamers like they used to this new breed they have no imagination to make things work have to be spoon fed everything. I just needed a joystick and 1 button and I was good to go. Now they need all this fluff to have fun instead of making there own fun in game and making it happen.
Online Sandbox games give players a world with resources, beasts and an environment to create their own content, society and gameplay.
Of course its not sandbox, even less holy "true sandbox". Cookie?
Its a hybrid, and if devs continue with their ideas it will be pretty good one.
If youre looking for holy "true sandbox", yah, you might skip it. Just as if you want holy "true themepark" (although whines already started on both end of spectrum, which is quite funny)
Wow did I read that right? People are saying GW2 is sandbox? LOL thanks for the laugh of the day.
Guessing a F2P system along LotRo and DDO model and that will be tied with a "relaunch" that will make all light servers disappear magically.
Pretty sure we're going to see payed DLC along this
IMHO not a bad thing though as it would mean more players and more content: clicky
Yeah BW has stated that they were going to drasctically increase the cap on the servers...I don't think any actual amount was given but still 10 servers going into 1 does not mean 10% of the people playing because that one server could hold several times as many people. Not to say there isn't a issue with people leaving just don't turn the numbers into something they are not. With how much instanced material there is and BW not going to cross-server lfg tool creating less high pop "mega servers" is I believe a very good move on their part.
I do still believe however the gaming is headed for a slow death until it moves to f2p.
I knew this was going to happen, and I don't doubt it will happen with GW2 (unless it's a huge success, which I hope it is). This has happened with every AAA mmo that has come out since WoW (that I've played).
I think they need to figure out a way to have all players in one world without the need to make separate instances for zones. Then again, launch day would be insanely over crowded.
Please enlighten us on how GW2 is a "hybrid."
30 servers is still alot considering how aweful the game is.
Yes, but it's still better than the 25 servers SWG had for eight straight years, especially the first years when 250k subscribers were considered a global hit.
/sarcasm off
I know this game is the holy of holies right now but to call it a hybrid is quite a stretch.