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What is wrong with Horizons?
JulianDracos
Member UncommonPosts: 1,528
I never played the game. I looked at it when it first was in beta and it seemed ok, but I really didn't want to give up one fantasy game just to go to this one. Whatever new game coming out was going to be the game and was going to 'kill' the others - such as Shadowbane. They have all been failures up until WoW.
I looked or Horizons again because I came across a few mentions of it in some threads. I went and looked at the game and it seems to have a lot of good ideas. But I know better than to judge a game based on its ideas. I am not looking to be converted to playing Horizons because I do not think it is possible, nor am I interested in simply whining.
What I would like is a list of what you think are the actual problems with the game. What ideas did they not implement right. Did they get anything right with the game?
Comments
I seriously wander why its even still listed on this site.
Having played for a solid 10 months I've found better entertainment in other games. Anything I tell you will be old ground go to the official forums and ask there. Even current players will make you think twice.
Just dont bother with this one.
It would be real hard to nail down just one thing that was wrong with Horizons. I can give you 3 or 4 reasons of my own which will probably vary from one person to the next.
1) Really lacks in the meaningful quest department. Just not a whole lot of them to do in this game for a diversion.
2) Memory leak something fierce. Granted I stopped my sub about 3 months back so it may have improved ( doubt it ) but at that time I would have to reboot my system after a few ports each and every time.
3) Mobs are not persistent in the world and will only spawn when the system senses a player will be in the area. This may be the case in other games as well but in Horizons if you are just out looking to XP on mobs then you could actually go to a known spawn area and wait upwards of 3-5 mins for the mobs to appear. And appear they would, the whole cache at one time invariably right on top of you which often resulted in a death point.
4) Finally my biggest reason for un-subscribing was the bear with us while we get some of the features that were advertised upon release attitude from AE and now Tulga Games.
The memory leak was a bug that took months to fix. For 512 MB rammers, it was hell. That probably drove off most of the people. The game also lacked depth. Combat was nice there just was not enough of it. There was also a great story. The AI was also fantastic.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Dont forget it was largely incompatible with some ATI cards for the first 4 or so months too.
Tip to any would be mmorpg producers, never ever outsource your graphics engine ever. Either build it in house or take an open source one (just like to Saga of Ryzom what you can do with one)
There have been major performace boosts in the past few months. The problem with the ineffiecent graphics renderer is of course still there, and will be until they get a new graphics engine.
Apparrently the devs have finally got around to making a library based file resource system, so as soon as that is tested and patched live the game should stop ripping your HD to shreads (stupid windows file allocation:P). Since HD limitations are what creates a large part of the lag on higher end systems this should really help the frame rate. They also just patched out the first part of their stand alone launcher because so many people have complained about the IE launcher LOL. I could never understand why they went with an IE launcher.
IMO the single biggest problems with the game from a tech standpoint are the crappy resource intensive CPU based renderer, and the lack of a world model.
I don't know how other peoples system configs handle the game, but my low end computer no longer experiences memory leak (1.8 P4, 512 DDR ram, cheap motherboard, GFFX 5700LE). I ported ~50 times a while ago and had no drop in my FPS (which is low to begin with cause my comp sucks. I only get 20-25 FPS).
Apparently the new NVIDIA drivers fix the issues HZ had with GFFX 6800s, which is good.
As for game play, I think the game is still a bit too crafter oriented. Fortunately this has apparently been hammered into the brains of the devs, because they have begun patching out more loot (including very rare loot being patched next week, and blighted weapons (drop only) are being made better).
One interesting development lately is that the devs seem to have gotten over their wish to punish players as much as possible. Silo storage has been tripled, house storage is being increased on the test server next week, and new vault (bank) quests are being released in the next month. Ornimental plot items (walls, walkways, trees etc) have had their resource requirements reduced to make them simpler to build. Which is good.
oh and they finally buffed up dragons:P. After the next Blight patch, they will have way more armor, and a new magical hoard based attack. Hoard items are also being reintroduced into the loottables of mobs, and that will certainly help. Apparently when Ancient Dragons are released they will have a few cool new things (like a ressurect spell) as well, but I can't tell you whether they are any good because they are still on the test server (blight), and most of their abilities are being kept under wraps.
If I read the patch notes correctly then another school specific quest is going to the test server next week too.
Not much maybe, but the game wasn't exactly awesome to begin with so it had no where to go but up(it was only ~1/5 complete at release in both content and in a technical sense).
The engine is still broke and there is no way they can fix it. The game needs a new engine but the company is so far in debt they can't afford it. It really is funny how they keep adding content with no hope of having the engine really run the game the right way. Only reason some people state the game is getting better is because people keep leaving and the servers are empty.
If they ever did get a rush of players believe it the server and engine just couldn't handle it. But go on try the trial I bet you come back and tell me I am right.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Care to explain why Ultima Online and Everquest 1 have been around for so long? Each is what 6 years old so far and still going strong. Sure they each have a PvP server but it's the least populated and from what I've heard the PvP side of Ultima Online's world is almost always empty with everyone in the Trammel side.
That's pretty long run if you ask me. Simply having PvP or not having it won't break a game. It's how it's actually done if it's added that will make the difference. Compare to how successful Anarchy Online and Dark Age of Camelot are with PvP as their main focus and how it's setup vs. Shadowbane and old Ultima Online before the first expansion that split the world into Fluccea and Trammel and how those systems are and were setup.
My thoughts on why EQ1 & UO still are going:
They were one of the first MMORPG's. Cant really compare them to new ones; if they had come out now, they would have been laughed at. Those who started to play them, still love them. Why are old people still in love even though they are ugly? Bad comparison, but I think you know what I mean.
The first MMROPG I played was AO, and I still love it most of all, even more than WoW... (hah, eat that GW fanbois!) I love it probably for the same reason I mentioned above. I tried EQ1, it wasnt anything for me. Today, people demands more from MMORPG's, and no pvp will not make the games go. Look at WoW: its almost none on the RP/non PVP servers. As I hear, EQ2 struggles as well, badly. I tried EQ2 for few days, but when I found out it had no pvp, I quit right after.
I dont find it strange that EQ1 & UO is still alive, most of the players there most certainly are "hooked" upon the game; some sort of powergamers perhaps. When I play my "first love", AO, I always end up power play it, even though I always say to myself not to every time I return to it...
I dont think any new MMORPG's will be any "great" in the long run without pvp. Probably thats why EQ2 will have pvp in September, which has made me consider returning to it. A MMORPPG without PVP is like an online FPS without being able to kill other players.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
PvP won't draw more than a handful of people to a game; PvP or the lack of it causes people to stop playing, not start.
Horizons isn't in any way balanced for PvP, the storyline doesn't support it, and implementing it would pull development resources away from features which, frankly, will do more for the game than PvP ever would.
Other games do PvP very well already; if you have to have PvP, play one of them. You'll be happier with a well-done PvP system than you would be with a PvP system shoehorned into a game that wasn't intended to support it.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Re-read my last paragraph.
WoW does PvP very well. If you want good PvP, that's the game to go to - which is why adding PvP to Horizons wouldn't really attract anyone. Everyone that would be attracted by adding it is already playing WoW.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
We're talking about Horizons, not David Allen's collection of pipe dreams & empty promises. If he had put more effort into programming the game instead of just talking about it, he might have accomplished something.
Reality check. David Allen doesn't walk on water or heal lepers, and you should stop idolizing him like he does. His vision is as dead as Pharoah Productions is - a bunch of empty promises that he would never have been able to realize.
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
They have each been around for almost 10 years. think of it this way. UO and EQ are these classic bands that everyone has grown to know and love. The newer MMOs are all cover bands. Which would you rather go see?
Until "The next big thing" comes around ppl are always going to be attracted to the proven performers.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
They have each been around for almost 10 years. think of it this way. UO and EQ are these classic bands that everyone has grown to know and love. The newer MMOs are all cover bands. Which would you rather go see?
Until "The next big thing" comes around ppl are always going to be attracted to the proven performers.
Exactly why I still have an open account with UO and pay all access to sony so I can still visit my characters in EQ. Also pvp is alive and well in both games. After this long I would expect players to leave for other games, but us hard core are still around.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
If you want a game that is just like EQ2 and WoW then go play EQ2 and WoW.
Every game has its flaws. SWG no matter how much i loved it always made me leave after a while. EQ2 is very monotonous and just not very fun. Horizons has its issues as does any game. You take them in stride and enjoy your gaming experience.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I reinstalled and patched up just this week. So far the only problem I see in the game is the stupid spawn thing. I don't like it. I want to see mobs that I'm walking into.
Other than that, the game is pretty, and it is fun. A few hundred more ppl on wouldn't hurt anything either.
I have no memory leak problems, and good fps with no lag to note. (only time I suffer lag is when I set my View distance meter high, which is unneed).
The quests I'm sure are there somewhere, but I haven't looked real hard, but I shouldn't have to. So that could be a complaint...that there aren't enough accessable quests.
But, multi classing is a very welcome change from all of these other boring games.
Other people have covered most of it. But my main beef is there's little to do except grind pointless levels. Originally the pitch was a war with the undead hordes. The server dynamically streams the game world to the client so spawns could be changed on the fly. This means Hz is just about the most bandwidth hungry MMO on the market so obviously big compromises were made but this war never materialised and people are left grinding out hundreds of levels on stubbornly static spawns. You'd think with only 2 servers having someone manage this war would be feasible but apparently they have other priorities.
The worst problem with HZ has always been its reputation. Some will say that it is deserved, others will say that it is not. The game itself launched with a lot of problems and is still hurt by that. It doesn't help that there is a gropup of people who don't play any more but for some reason still are very attached to the game, though embittered about it. So when the game is discussed, as for example here, controversy follows it.
HZ was my first mmorpg and I played it intensely for a few months right after it was released. Then other games called to me and I really wanted to explore them. I played EQ and CoH each for a few months, and tried WoW and EQ2 briefly. But now I have a sense of what mmorpgs have to offer.
I came back to HZ just this last week again. The game is still HZ but it is so vastly different than it was a year ago that I cannot begin to explain. I have had to relearn it from the ground up, and even five 20 hour days later I have barely scratched the surface.
I would say to anyone: try it and see if you like it. It is a very unique game, with many cool elements that I missed when I played other games. There were things that were badly done when HZ was released; many of these things have been fixed. There were also things that were superbly done then though people tend to focus on the negatives.
HZ is a work in progress. Because Tulga Games is a small company, they are apt to go ahead and try things out and see how they work. If they don't work, then they are apt to change them back to the way the were or change them in yet a new way. This is very different than a game like EQ, which changes with the slowness of a bureaucratic entity; it is much more like how Cryptic Studios does things with City of Heroes. There too you will see change occuring on a perceptible timescale, without the customers having to buy expansions in order to reap the benefits of it.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by taking advantage of the 7-day free trial, which you can download here.
The worst problem with HZ has always been its reputation. Some will say that it is deserved, others will say that it is not. The game itself launched with a lot of problems and is still hurt by that. It doesn't help that there is a gropup of people who don't play any more but for some reason still are very attached to the game, though embittered about it. So when the game is discussed, as for example here, controversy follows it.
HZ was my first mmorpg and I played it intensely for a few months right after it was released. Then other games called to me and I really wanted to explore them. I played EQ and CoH each for a few months, and tried WoW and EQ2 briefly. But now I have a sense of what mmorpgs have to offer.
I came back to HZ just this last week again. The game is still HZ but it is so vastly different than it was a year ago that I cannot begin to explain. I have had to relearn it from the ground up, and even five 20 hour days later I have barely scratched the surface.
I would say to anyone: try it and see if you like it. It is a very unique game, with many cool elements that I missed when I played other games. There were things that were badly done when HZ was released; many of these things have been fixed. There were also things that were superbly done then though people tend to focus on the negatives.
HZ is a work in progress. Because Tulga Games is a small company, they are apt to go ahead and try things out and see how they work. If they don't work, then they are apt to change them back to the way the were or change them in yet a new way. This is very different than a game like EQ, which changes with the slowness of a bureaucratic entity; it is much more like how Cryptic Studios does things with City of Heroes. There too you will see change occuring on a perceptible timescale, without the customers having to buy expansions in order to reap the benefits of it.
You have absolutely nothing to lose by taking advantage of the 7-day free trial, which you can download here.
Wow you played some other online games for a few months and now you are some expert on the MMORPG spectrum. How come I feel you should be put in the same catagory as the Bowman interview that has sparked this new HZ debate. Lets see I have been playing online games regulary from the start of UO beta and been in every beta after that. I can only say that the one and only thing HZ brings to the market that can even be looked as different is the dragons as a player race. But saying that the dragon race is really nothing to be excited about. I for one never thought the dragon race was done that well, from start to present. But to each his own.
As for other games and yes even AC2 there is more content in them at release than anything HZ can offer. I for one think it would take a good 3 more years just to get to where most games release in content on day one. Bugs another great debate for HZ and one of its biggest problems. They attempt to keep the player base happy by fixing fluff yet most of the major bugs can't be fixed without a new engine built from the ground up. Problem here it would take way to long to build let alone port all the data to it.
Last but not least people will attempt to say the best thing in HZ is the community. I have experianced this community and I must say it really wasn't that different at release than most others. Now this community has changed over time and it can only be compared to a town that is clearly turning into a ghost town. One thing that must be pointed out at this juncture is how this community is attemping to play for free with the HZ reseller program. The reseller program is a good tactic but one that will end up failing in the long run. One thing we can say that helps makes the great games great has always been word of mouth not just the advertising. But alas word of mouth has also ruined games like AC2 and HZ and mourning. Not to mention how some of the developers of these companies have put unrealistic spins upon these games.
So in conclusion HZ has been and will be a major disapointment to the gaming industry and can only make this industry better if it would just shut its doors and go away. Sooner than later in my humble opinion.
You have a great day now.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee